Telefonica O2 debt mountain is likely to force sale of assets

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  • legends wear 7legends wear 7 Posts: 2,102
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    Thine Wonk wrote: »
    They are by revenue, just not by customer numbers.

    And revenue is the important number, who gives a monkeys how many customers you have if they don't provide the revenue to re-invest into the company.

    Very soon Vodafone Uk will pass O2 and move into 2nd in the UK market behind EE. Whom VF are rapidly catching as well.
  • The Lord LucanThe Lord Lucan Posts: 5,054
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    Legends.. are they catching?
  • legends wear 7legends wear 7 Posts: 2,102
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    Over last qtr released results Vodafone have taken 10% points from O2 and I believe will pass O2 in this next qtr.

    They took about 6% points from EE so yes they are catching and have been for a few qtrs now.

    Of the big three only Vodafone are showing revenue growth, O2 results were a huge 8% fall in revenues, EE I think reported being down by 4%
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,890
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    O2 results were a huge 8% fall in revenues, EE I think reported being down by 4%

    Because they chose to come out with weird, expensive new tarrifs.
  • reclusive46reclusive46 Posts: 584
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    Agreed. O2 are not competitive in any way. Vodafone has never been either but has a lot of special offers which are on a lot.
  • bottleofbestbottleofbest Posts: 8,026
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    Agreed. O2 are not competitive in any way. Vodafone has never been either but has a lot of special offers which are on a lot.

    You're telling me! You get sod all for you money on O2 compared to the likes of T-mobile, Orange and Three.
  • Daveoc64Daveoc64 Posts: 15,374
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    I disagree with that.

    I think that the best thing O2 is doing right now is separating data allowances from the rest of the package.

    If you want 1GB on a Sim Free plan from Vodafone then you have to pay £31! That's because it includes 900 minutes - even if you don't need them.

    Orange is doing the same thing, except it costs at least £36.

    T-Mobile offers separate data packages (and gives a slightly higher allowance than O2)

    Three limits the All You Can Eat data package to a select few of its plans and restricts tethering on all of them bar one (i.e. the One Plan).
    You can get 1GB for £10 on O2, plus £10.50 per month for the basic calls/text package.

    The networks continue to exploit the fact that it costs them virtually nothing to provide texts/calls, yet they know they can provide a huge allowance of them and charge for it.
  • Deleted_User381237831Deleted_User381237831 Posts: 7,902
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    Yes but in doing so its made O2's packages more expensive in the majority.
  • Thine WonkThine Wonk Posts: 17,190
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    Further problems for Telefonica in the news over the last few days. I do wonder how this will effect O2 UK investment.

    They have already made 6,500 of their employees redundant (20% of their Spanish workforce) costing them 2.7BN Euro.

    At O2 Ireland there have been 120 redundancies.

    Atento, the call centre business they own which employs 15,000 staff and operates over 100 call centres is being sold off.

    The latest news is the company has hit a 52 week low on the stock market as Spain's economy continues to go down the pan.

    http://markets.ft.com/Research/Markets/Tearsheets/Summary?s=TEF:MCE
  • Deleted_User381237831Deleted_User381237831 Posts: 7,902
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    Like I've said before - 2012 is going to be make or break for O2/Telefonica. I reckon the O2 arm will be sold off before long...
  • wavejockglwwavejockglw Posts: 10,596
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    Like I've said before - 2012 is going to be make or break for O2/Telefonica. I reckon the O2 arm will be sold off before long...

    Why when O2 is one of the strongest parts of their business? It's the UK's biggest mobile success story by a mile in terms of a UK network! Biggest single provider (excluding EE which merged two networks), least compalints to Ofcom, highest cusotmer satisfaction rating in Ofcom surveys, huge success with joint MVNO ventures like Tesco Mobile and one of the most successful UK brands of this century.
  • Thine WonkThine Wonk Posts: 17,190
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    Why when O2 is one of the strongest parts of their business? It's the UK's biggest mobile success story by a mile!

    You are thinking of Vodafone surely?
  • Deleted_User381237831Deleted_User381237831 Posts: 7,902
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    Why when O2 is one of the strongest parts of their business? It's the UK's biggest mobile success story by a mile in terms of a UK network! Biggest single provider (excluding EE which merged two networks), least compalints to Ofcom, highest cusotmer satisfaction rating in Ofcom surveys, huge success with joint MVNO ventures like Tesco Mobile and one of the most successful UK brands of this century.

    Think about it...

    If Telefonica are up the proverbial creek, what's the first asset they'll sell to keep the rest afloat?

    The one that is most successful - and they'll sell for top dollar too.

    To be fair, I think their 3G network coverage-wise is worse than shocking. Three/EE are best by a country mile.
  • Thine WonkThine Wonk Posts: 17,190
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    The 52 week low is noteworthy, it is expected to get worse in Spain over the coming months, just how much this effects O2 we'll see I guess.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,890
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    Thine Wonk wrote: »
    You are thinking of Vodafone surely?

    He must be, after all it is the biggest mobile operator in the world isn't it?
  • wavejockglwwavejockglw Posts: 10,596
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    *MikeB* wrote: »
    He must be, after all it is the biggest mobile operator in the world isn't it?

    No its not! Its China Mobile by over 200 million subscribers.

    O2 have been the most successful single operator in the UK if you exclude the merged T-Mobile/Orange joint venture.
  • Thine WonkThine Wonk Posts: 17,190
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    *MikeB* wrote: »
    He must be, after all it is the biggest mobile operator in the world isn't it?

    By revenue yes, also EE are the biggest in the UK by subscriber numbers.
  • beecartbeecart Posts: 544
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    Thine Wonk wrote: »
    By revenue yes, also EE are the biggest in the UK by subscriber numbers.

    BUT... Thats two companies. They merged.... If o2 and Vodafone merged they'd have more customers than EE
  • wavejockglwwavejockglw Posts: 10,596
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    beecart wrote: »
    BUT... Thats two companies. They merged.... If o2 and Vodafone merged they'd have more customers than EE

    Exactly - and I was quite specific about that merged business.

    O2 have 22+ milllion subscribers of their own and 3 million jointly with Tesco Mobile plus other MVNOs including their own GiffGaff one. Vastly more than Vodafone or any of the pre-merged network operators.
  • beecartbeecart Posts: 544
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    Exactly - and I was quite specific about that merged business.

    O2 have 22+ milllion subscribers of their own and 3 million jointly with Tesco Mobile plus other MVNOs including their own GiffGaff one. Vastly more than Vodafone or any of the pre-merged network operators.

    PM'd you wave.
  • legends wear 7legends wear 7 Posts: 2,102
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    It's not about customer numbers though, the important number is revenue and vodafone are the biggest in the world
  • The Lord LucanThe Lord Lucan Posts: 5,054
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    Fact is.. 2012 going into 2013 is going to be a risky and turbulent time for all the networks. LTE may break the back of AT LEAST one mobile operator in the coming months!
  • The Lord LucanThe Lord Lucan Posts: 5,054
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    No its not! Its China Mobile by over 200 million subscribers..

    The very company i feel may buy them.... IF they are put up for sale.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,890
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    The very company i feel may buy them.... IF they are put up for sale.

    It would take a HUGE company to buy Vodafone. Do China Mobile have the funds?

    I would have thought that Vodafone have more than 200 million subscribers worldwide. I'm surprised they don't actually.
  • wavejockglwwavejockglw Posts: 10,596
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    *MikeB* wrote: »
    It would take a HUGE company to buy Vodafone. Do China Mobile have the funds?

    I would have thought that Vodafone have more than 200 million subscribers worldwide. I'm surprised they don't actually.

    They do have more than 200 million - about 440 million but China Mobile have almost 650 million!

    Telefonica who own O2 have 231 million mobile subscribers

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operators
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