Mmm Islamic countries can't be compared to the West can they? They are a very different world often poverty stricken and over populated and very strictly under the power of a 600 years younger religion.
Just a thought.
Qatar one of the chief funders of Islamism is the world's richest country per capita,
3 other Middle Eastern countries make the top 10.
Saudi comes in at 11...
Pakistan and India had similar levels of development at partition. Both are pretty much conservative and religion obsessed nations. Why the difference in outcomes?
Educate liberals in the west on islamic lifestyle, demonstrate how jihadists can come from any background or class. Make liberals read the passages of the Koran so they can see first hand where the inspiration for attacks, laws against women, homosexuals etc come from.
Once the western liberals can safely identify what single religion links IS, Taliban, Boku Harum and Al Qaeda and anti humanists laws across the world, then we can have a debate on how to stop this problem.
Some western liberal sitting in a different country has little influence over the day to day lives of an Afghan. The change has to come locally to be sustainable. Telling them their religion is evil from an armchair across the world just isn't going to cut it.
Members of the 9/11 attacks were middle class. Many of the attacks are committed by middle class terrorists, some wealthy too. Those who fund the attacks are very wealthy and well educated, many educated in the west.
The idea that the poor make up most the terrorists is a dangerous western marxist corruption of reality and an desperate liberal apology for islam and all the blood shed it has caused..
Educate liberals in the west on islamic lifestyle, demonstrate how jihadists can come from any background or class. Make liberals read the passages of the Koran so they can see first hand where the inspiration for attacks, laws against women, homosexuals etc come from.
Once the western liberals can safely identify what single religion links IS, Taliban, Boku Harum and Al Qaeda and anti humanists laws across the world, then we can have a debate on how to stop this problem.
Some western liberal sitting in a different country has little influence over the day to day lives of an Afghan. The change has to come locally to be sustainable. Telling then their religion is evil from an armchair across the world just isn't going to cut it.
Stawman? Their children are not evil.
Just as your education tells you their must be something basic like poverty or lack of education that causes islamic terrorism, reality dictates islam itself is the corrupter and it can corrupt wealthy and poor alike.
Members of the 9/11 attacks were middle class. Many of the attacks are committed by middle class terrorists, some wealthy too. Those who fund the attacks are very wealthy and well educated, many educated in the west.
The idea that the poor make up most the terrorists is a dangerous western marxist corruption of reality and an desperate liberal apology for islam and all the blood shed it has caused..
Ah the "liberal" slur. I was wondering when that would be rolled out.
Just saying terrorists are rich or middle class doesn't make it so. The vast majority or terrorist atrocities happen in very poor countries. But western lives matter more in the media so those terror attacks get more widely reported. Thousands of deaths in Iraq happened by suicide bombers before ISIS even existed in its current form.
Ah the "liberal" slur. I was wondering when that would be rolled out.
Just saying terrorists are rich or middle class doesn't make it so. The vast majority or terrorist atrocities happen in very poor countries. But western lives matter more in the media so those terror attacks get more widely reported. Thousands of deaths in Iraq happened by suicide bombers before ISIS even existed in its current form.
Again, I think your education has told you to make this a class issue. Bombers and terrorists all over the world come from every class. The leaders are disproportionately wealthy like our leaders in the west. Islamic terrorist armies are made up of all different classes and muslims born all over the world in different societies. Someone who blows himself up iraq can come from any class and have any education. That is why education is not the answer. Many terrorists receive western educations and still detonate themselves. Many wealthy arabs do the same.
Extreme Islam is above a victorian marxist class war and I don't care how many 3rd year university dissertations I have wrecked in saying that.
Yes and no. Have they improved over the last 600 years? Why should the next 600 be different?
Extremism and racism has erupted regularly in the Muslim world just like anti-semitism and racism does in the west. And it's normally for similar reasons - moments of social change, economic hardship and recessions etc.
The movements and scapegoat politics are cute try growing everywhere as the worldwide recession is - worldwide.
The problem isI think the Muslim world, including moderates are still in denial about the cancers in their society to a far greater extent than are (some) western nations. As long as people pronounce that Islam is the answer why should they be bothered or think it worthwhile to look for answers themselves?
Have Christianity and humane attitudes changed over the last 600 years in the West? There have also been dramatic changes in the last 70 years with the advent of Socialism in a democratic society. Lack of democracy is a huge problem in Islamic countries, where religion and the most powerful Muslim sect seems to hold sway. They also slaughter far more Muslims than anyone else, like today in Pakistan.
Moderates aren't in denial about extremists and do condemn them. Yesterday in Australia and around the world. Today in Pakistan, Muslims speaking out against the Taliban. Why is this only constantly demanded of Muslims? It's as if moderates may just have become extremists and have to reiterate their condemnation constantly. It's looking for someone to blame for extremist lunatics, nothing more!
How many other denominations of Christianity openly condemn the Catholic Church and it's ongoing basic human rights denials and the untold misery they cause, in the name of their version of Christianity. Which other denomination is expected to do anything about their protection of sexual abusing Priests?
How can you achieve that when they are slaughtering and kidnapping schoolkids to prevent them from being educated, which they consider to be a western plot.
It is a western plot or rather plan as its not exactly hidden. People with lives, property and hope have more to lose and are therefore less annihilistic. That's why it was considered a good idea to build up Germany and Japan after WWII rather than keep them in perpetual subjugation. That and the fact that the U.S. was less imperialistic at the time.
Anyone who helps propagate islam in this day age lays the cornerstones for extremism - although that can be an uncomfortable fact to live with for a non muslim liberal western apologist.
Muslims are complicit in the survival of Islam, just as everyone else on this planet is complicit in capitalism and corruption by going to the supermarket and voting in corrupt politicians.
It is not surprising that those who defend islam out of hand are themselves extremists using words like 'good' and 'evil' and 'genocide.'
Islam requires a pragmatic and cynical approach, there is already an overload of extremism and emotion within the pages of the Koran, why approach a debate about it covered in petrol?
Comments
3 other Middle Eastern countries make the top 10.
Saudi comes in at 11...
Pakistan and India had similar levels of development at partition. Both are pretty much conservative and religion obsessed nations. Why the difference in outcomes?
Some western liberal sitting in a different country has little influence over the day to day lives of an Afghan. The change has to come locally to be sustainable. Telling them their religion is evil from an armchair across the world just isn't going to cut it.
The idea that the poor make up most the terrorists is a dangerous western marxist corruption of reality and an desperate liberal apology for islam and all the blood shed it has caused..
Well that's certainly how ISIS work... probably the Taliban too or at least some of them.
In ISIS it does. It has been widely reported. I'll link to it later as I'm on my phone at the moment.
Stawman? Their children are not evil.
Just as your education tells you their must be something basic like poverty or lack of education that causes islamic terrorism, reality dictates islam itself is the corrupter and it can corrupt wealthy and poor alike.
Plenty of reports from Iraq post invasion on how AQ paid former Iraqi military to shoot at Westerners
Yeah because a debate is totally genocide.
Ah the "liberal" slur. I was wondering when that would be rolled out.
Just saying terrorists are rich or middle class doesn't make it so. The vast majority or terrorist atrocities happen in very poor countries. But western lives matter more in the media so those terror attacks get more widely reported. Thousands of deaths in Iraq happened by suicide bombers before ISIS even existed in its current form.
How did you get there dear?
Look if there is a competition for the biggest strawman on DS, please give me the link, because I just can't see what your motivation is?
I have nothing against muslims or islam. They are free to kill themselves for Allah.
Again, I think your education has told you to make this a class issue. Bombers and terrorists all over the world come from every class. The leaders are disproportionately wealthy like our leaders in the west. Islamic terrorist armies are made up of all different classes and muslims born all over the world in different societies. Someone who blows himself up iraq can come from any class and have any education. That is why education is not the answer. Many terrorists receive western educations and still detonate themselves. Many wealthy arabs do the same.
Extreme Islam is above a victorian marxist class war and I don't care how many 3rd year university dissertations I have wrecked in saying that.
I don't know, i might talk about it or commit genocide. easy to confuse.
Have Christianity and humane attitudes changed over the last 600 years in the West? There have also been dramatic changes in the last 70 years with the advent of Socialism in a democratic society. Lack of democracy is a huge problem in Islamic countries, where religion and the most powerful Muslim sect seems to hold sway. They also slaughter far more Muslims than anyone else, like today in Pakistan.
Moderates aren't in denial about extremists and do condemn them. Yesterday in Australia and around the world. Today in Pakistan, Muslims speaking out against the Taliban. Why is this only constantly demanded of Muslims? It's as if moderates may just have become extremists and have to reiterate their condemnation constantly. It's looking for someone to blame for extremist lunatics, nothing more!
How many other denominations of Christianity openly condemn the Catholic Church and it's ongoing basic human rights denials and the untold misery they cause, in the name of their version of Christianity. Which other denomination is expected to do anything about their protection of sexual abusing Priests?
In that case if they are being paid to fight then they are soldiers and enemy combatants and can be detained in Guantanamo indefinitely without trial
It is a western plot or rather plan as its not exactly hidden. People with lives, property and hope have more to lose and are therefore less annihilistic. That's why it was considered a good idea to build up Germany and Japan after WWII rather than keep them in perpetual subjugation. That and the fact that the U.S. was less imperialistic at the time.
Huh!!! Please point out one poster suggesting that?
I wasn't. That was my point.
if it`s wrong for one side of any war, fight or argument to do something it`s wrong for the other side too, no matter who it is.
Anyone who helps propagate islam in this day age lays the cornerstones for extremism - although that can be an uncomfortable fact to live with for a non muslim liberal western apologist.
Muslims are complicit in the survival of Islam, just as everyone else on this planet is complicit in capitalism and corruption by going to the supermarket and voting in corrupt politicians.
It is not surprising that those who defend islam out of hand are themselves extremists using words like 'good' and 'evil' and 'genocide.'
Islam requires a pragmatic and cynical approach, there is already an overload of extremism and emotion within the pages of the Koran, why approach a debate about it covered in petrol?