Karen needs to uncomplicate her routines and play to her partners' strengths
tornado
Posts: 196 Forum Member
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Firstly, this is not intended as a personal attack on Karen - I think that she's clearly a really good dancer and has a nice personality.
However, rewatching the Gary clip on youtube, I think that the routine she picked for Gary was far too fast paced and contained some ridiculously difficult elements which were way beyond his ability. Although other celebrity dancers may have been able to do the moves in the first week, when it was obvious that Gary couldn't she should have axed them.
For example, the shake on the stairs was a horrendous first move. Gary clearly couldn't do it and it struck me as a really difficult opening move as it required perfect and immediate timing/rhythm as well as masses of confidence. I actually don't think any of the celebrity men would have been able to do it well. Karen should have realised that it didn't work/look good and gone for an alternative start.
There were also certain spins and other gestures that Gary just couldn't keep up with. As others have said, even if Karen didn't intend for it to look this way, it looked as if she was showing off how amazing she was and didn't care if Gary could keep up.
I think that it would be much better if Karen did something much simpler (boring even) which Gary could perfect (or at least get some of it right) rather than a really quite difficult routine where Gary is going to look horrendous especially in comparison to her doing it fast.
I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this but I much preferred Matt and Lillia's showdance to hers and Mark's because I felt that her choreography was just too complicated and Mark although obviously very good was really having to work very hard to keep up. Certain elements of that show dance looked rushed/messy. I much preferred Matt and Lillia's showdance which was extremely slick and where everything was perfect. I also quite like simplicity in dancing rather than throwing in difficult move after difficult move.
I suppose what I'm saying is that I think it is better to do something simpler well than to do a complicated dance and struggle. I actually don't think that Gary is totally distastrous as a dancer but I couldn't see that there was any place for him to shine in that routine. Karen should adapt her routines to her dance partner and make sure that they look good and comfortable.
However, rewatching the Gary clip on youtube, I think that the routine she picked for Gary was far too fast paced and contained some ridiculously difficult elements which were way beyond his ability. Although other celebrity dancers may have been able to do the moves in the first week, when it was obvious that Gary couldn't she should have axed them.
For example, the shake on the stairs was a horrendous first move. Gary clearly couldn't do it and it struck me as a really difficult opening move as it required perfect and immediate timing/rhythm as well as masses of confidence. I actually don't think any of the celebrity men would have been able to do it well. Karen should have realised that it didn't work/look good and gone for an alternative start.
There were also certain spins and other gestures that Gary just couldn't keep up with. As others have said, even if Karen didn't intend for it to look this way, it looked as if she was showing off how amazing she was and didn't care if Gary could keep up.
I think that it would be much better if Karen did something much simpler (boring even) which Gary could perfect (or at least get some of it right) rather than a really quite difficult routine where Gary is going to look horrendous especially in comparison to her doing it fast.
I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this but I much preferred Matt and Lillia's showdance to hers and Mark's because I felt that her choreography was just too complicated and Mark although obviously very good was really having to work very hard to keep up. Certain elements of that show dance looked rushed/messy. I much preferred Matt and Lillia's showdance which was extremely slick and where everything was perfect. I also quite like simplicity in dancing rather than throwing in difficult move after difficult move.
I suppose what I'm saying is that I think it is better to do something simpler well than to do a complicated dance and struggle. I actually don't think that Gary is totally distastrous as a dancer but I couldn't see that there was any place for him to shine in that routine. Karen should adapt her routines to her dance partner and make sure that they look good and comfortable.
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She was criticised by the judges for doing the same thing with Mark's jive. I do think she forgets that the choeography is supposed to compliment her celeb rather than show of her own talents, I don't dislike her but do find this aspect of her self indulgent.
They were my prediction to go - after all that talk of striving for perfection he just didn't come across well - we'll see if things have improved by next week.
There have been threads before about professionals who can choreograph to their partners strengths (and not their own!). Darren Bennett gets my vote, his routines always strike me as being something his partner can cope with and that will show any strengths (!) they may have.
I am huge fan of Karen and I liked her routine on Saturday, it was certainly one of the most entertaining and so on. Karen also made a good point in the VT that Garys search for perfection was holding them back on the routine, I agree with your point however that had the steps maybe been simpler then perfection would have came easier.
I am glad they stayed and I think there is alot more to come from this couple:D
Ah, well - maybe he'll be out next week (we live in hope)
Remember that ad he did a few years ago...? "The secret to a perfect sausage... get a prick to cook them...!" or summink like that...
I agree and made a similar comment on another thread earlier.
I have always found Karen's choreography for the cha cha cha a little twee anyway and her energy comes across to me as a bit frenetic at times.
It's shame that they didn't get the waltz as I'm sure she would have been able to really make something of that. Karen has done some beautiful waltzes with all of her contestants, even last year with Brian wasn't that bad.
I wonder if the professionals have any choice in their first dance? Karen has done the cha cha 3 times in the first week now, and so have Lilia and Camilla.
Maybe a question for another thread.
I think it's to do with what the professional's speciality is meant to be? As Karen, Lilia and Camilla all mainly focus on Latin then I think they give them that in the first week. However, if the contestant's older than they give them Ballroom (like John).
Though maybe I'm talking nonsense as I just remembered that Don's older and he did Latin with Lillia.:)
I don't think youre talking nonsense at all, I think because Dons an actor he has less of a cringe factor when dancing Latin than a political correspondent would have .
Actors are luckier I suppose because they can create a charachter when dancing whereas John would always be John the old chap
Anyway, back to topic :cool:
Maybe the criticism of complicated routines could be levelled at any of the professionals, not just Karen. I always think the cha cha is a very exposed dance and so difficult to pull off in the first week if the male celeb is a bit wary.
I know Gethin got slated last year, will have to go on you tube and watch his dance again to see how difficult it is. Oh the hardship.
am still going to watch Gethin on youtube and not just take your word for it!
Can someone explain? That should have been ditched at the outset.
Do the simple things well. Especially with him as he seemed to get so stressed-out by the whole thing!
I like Karen - but perhaps she lost sight of the fact that Gary doesn't appear to be a natural dancer - and he must take some responsibility for losing time striving for perfection.
I think he was making pasta.:rolleyes:
This has previously worked well for her...we had the hat with bill in week 1 series 3 and then we had the hand clapping thing in week 1 series 4 with Mark:p
Watch Ian and his routines are often too complex .
I agree Lilia has a talent for pitching everything at the right level .
As for Gary's cha cha , I did wonder had she realised she didn't have a Ramps on her hands again , more a Bill, with character she could bring out and exploit but perhaps more limited dance ability .If It's fast you often miss mistakes , if it has gimmicks you see those and not the poor technique .
She found she didn't need those with Mark.
I enjoyed both showdances in 2006 and 2007, Mark's and Matt's were different and I think Karen was maybe too concerned with the showdance element , but then that is what we are constantly told is what is expected and we are shown the Cat people doing it !
Anyway, it's a learning curve both for the celebs and the professionals. Karen is still evaluating Gary's strengths and weaknesses and will no doubt tailor their future routines to get the most out of her partner.
I agree with you so completely I'm wondering if you're telepathic! I've always thought that Darren is underrated as a choreographer. On the basis of Saturday's show I think Kristina may be another one. The waltz she choreographed played to John's capabilities and was charming and entertaining as a result.
Kristina did a magnificent job with John. She seemed very sweet behind the scenes too. I hope they aren't booted out soon!
I disagree about the showdances though, I thought Mark coped with theirs well.
You're right. I sometimes think that if I see one more sycopated New Yorker in an SCD Cha Cha I will throw something at the telly!
Do I remember the judges telling her she'd made one key dance of Mark's more difficult than she needed to? I think I remember that but I might be getting mixed up.
I'm not that keen on Gary but to be fair to him he isn't a dancer and his 'perfectionism' might be his way of being nervous. It may just be that he needs things explained to him very carefully. Annoying to teach but understandable.
I completely agree with everyone who said Kristina did a wonderful dance for John.
Totally agree with that comment too. Just lovely. Also, the comment re: Erin and how she gets it so right. Matthew does too. I don't think it's right to say they are still working out their partner's characters, because in that case, all the professional dancers would get it so wrong in the first few weeks and they don't, as we've already said.
If it can happen to Darren (who I think choreographs brilliantly for his partners) - it can happen to anyone else.