I think it is a good idea provided it is aimed at the right people but thats where it often goes wrong. I used to work for a company training the long-termed unemployed get back into work.I met some lovely people who were desperate to get off benefits and get their self-respect back. I would place them with companies for work experiance,usually 6 weeks which quite often led into them being hired,it did not affect their benefits whilst on course.
However,there is a hard core group,up to 3rd generation now,who refuse to work. At least 2 or 3 times a week at my first meeting with aperson I was told to F### off,don't want to work and you can't make me.Unfortunately they are right,whilst benefits can be withdrawn for refusal to work(I'm talking able-bodied here),they go on an emergency benefit and if they have kids then there's nothing can be done.
Theres alot of very good programmes out there to aid people with all sorts of problems get back into work,no pressure is used,many are afraid but theres no need to be,the system works when used properly.
Unfortunately the government keeps messing around with it,I was made redundant 3 yrs ago cos they kept pulling the funding and my company along with many others went under,in my last week of work,I got 4 longterm unemployd good jobs. But every time a company gets up and running with an organised programme,along comes a new minister and messes around with it.
Oh well, sorry for the rant:o:o:)
I also have a husband on DLA so have experiance both sides of the coin!
oh yes, give them more benefits!
if i was starting a business, what would i get?
stop labelling yourself.. the thought of having to pay the bils a bit depressing is it? best sign off sick again :mad:
I'm not off sick. I don't claim benefits. What on earth are you talking about? I work full-time. I started my own business and haven't taken a penny from the government to do it. That doesn't mean I think it's easy for everyone.
How do you know the guys drinking and smoking are benefit claimers?
well, i would think its the way they dress, and the fact that usually, theyre hammered and have up to 10 empty glasses in front of them... go to work drunk a lot do you?
i saw the program ' the man with 20 kids '
we try not to stereotype people, but its hard
i do 10 hr days ( its rest day today) and i always seem to pass the same pub, on a daily basis - and there always seem to be the same people stood at the door, smoking
and its only people on benefit that can affod to drink, workers are more likely to spend their money on taxes and bills
The poster doesn't appear to have been out of work for 20 years with depression that's work related though.
Having had depression myself and with depression as a part of my son's Aspergers'/OCD, god forbid I should ever tell anyone to 'pull yourself together'. I know it's not that easy, but to fall into the trap of making one's depression a lifestyle choice is not a good thing.
And, yes, it is a medical fact.
No, I know it's not work-related, but your post sounded a bit like "Work is the cure for depression" in general.
And it's not a universal fact, it's a new study that was published quite recently. And what it actually says is that going back to work CAN help SOME people IF their employers are helpful, supportive and very flexible.
I do agree with your second paragraph, but I don't think telling people what to do is the way to deal with it - I can't see it working, it's more likely to make people more depressed. They need support and practical help, usually.
well, i would think its the way they dress, and the fact that usually, theyre hammered and have up to 10 empty glasses in front of them... go to work drunk a lot do you?
i saw the program ' the man with 20 kids '
we try not to stereotype people, but its hard
i do 10 hr days ( its rest day today) and i always seem to pass the same pub, on a daily basis - and there always seem to be the same people stood at the door, smoking
and its only people on benefit that can affod to drink, workers are more likely to spend their money on taxes and bills
Maybe they work shifts. Maybe they work night shifts, and this is their pint after work.
And your last point's just silly - most people who work can afford to drink, and benefits do not make you richer than working.
well, i would think its the way they dress, and the fact that usually, theyre hammered and have up to 10 empty glasses in front of them... go to work drunk a lot do you?
i saw the program ' the man with 20 kids '
we try not to stereotype people, but its hard
i do 10 hr days ( its rest day today) and i always seem to pass the same pub, on a daily basis - and there always seem to be the same people stood at the door, smoking
and its only people on benefit that can affod to drink, workers are more likely to spend their money on taxes and bills
I'm sorry but I think this is all very poorly thought out.
I don't think it'd be very productive for either of us to attempt to move forward with this discussion.
I've heard GP's getting a lot of stick on TV and radio and on other forums today. I haven't sent a Drs note in for years but get called in every 2 years to see a DWP Dr. So it's not GP's keeping people on indefinitely. They may sign them off sick in the first place though admittedly.
well, i would think its the way they dress, and the fact that usually, they hammered and have up to 10 empty glasses in front of them...
So in your eyes all benefit claimants are scruff bags who look like tramps. How do you know these people weren't in their work clothes and having a drink?
So in your eyes all benefit claimants are scruff bags who look like tramps. How do you know these people weren't in their work clothes and having a drink?[/QUOTE
who exactly called them tramps and scruff bags?
i find claimants dressed in all the latest , expensive clothes, they, at least can afford to
I think the pub example is being overplayed and moving away from the topic.
At one point I worked for Social Housing and saw plenty of people who could have gotten themselves work, they knew the system and played it like a harp.
It was an ongoing joke about how this type of tenant had enormous TVs and smoked like chimnies. They were perversly proud of the fact that they got it all for free, that the 'social' would pay for this and that, and how if they did this or that, they could screw another few quid out of the system.
Unfortunately, despite our best wishes, some people are just lazy and don't care, our benefits system was good, as long as people understood it was a two way street.
There are those who would gleefully keep their paws in the pot, these are the people who need to be forced to get off their backsides and made to work.
i find claimants dressed in all the latest , expensive clothes, they, at least can afford to
gettin ur back up am i?
You didn't exactly say it, but you implied it.
You find claimants dressed expensively? :rolleyes: How do you know they're claimants?
Your 'argument' needs to be a little better thought out.
Either that or your a fully paid up member of the 'hang 'em and flog 'em' brigade at the age of what - 20 or so?
'Gettin' my back up? No dear, takes a lot for anyone to do that.
Rubbish. I've been on incapacity benefit exactly 20 years with depression and nerves. I have good days and bad days. What employerts want me when I may be able to go some days and not others?
Rubbish. You could get a job doing something from home, you could work part time or you could work for yourself. You could at least make an effort. But hey, why bother when you can do nothing for 20 years and let the rest of us house you, feed you, clothe you and pay for internet access to enable you to rub our noses in it too?
I was on incapacity benefit because of long-term mental health problems before I left the UK and moved to France. I wasn't a 'scrounger' or anything else. I had a first class BA degree and a Masters degree. I did have depression though. Some days I never got out of bed, some days I could barely walk or eat and just sat frozen.
I thought the government was intent on restoring 'the confidence' of the long-term unemployed? What's so restorative about picking up litter? Since when did being unemployed equate to being a criminal? Obviously there are dole-frauds around, working on the sly, but is this the way to deal with them?
As others have said, do those involved have to wear grey jumpsuits with arrows on them, tied together at the ankle with chains? Being unemployed is humiliating enough without making people do community service, a la Boy George or Naomi Campbell.
P.S and all the government could provide was an 18-month long wait for group therapy with a third-rate counsellor on the NHS. People who tar all benefit claimers with the same brush want to keep their mouths shut as they don't know what they're talking about.
Rubbish. You could get a job doing something from home, you could work part time or you could work for yourself. You could at least make an effort. But hey, why bother when you can do nothing for 20 years and let the rest of us house you, feed you, clothe you and pay for internet access to enable you to rub our noses in it too?
You find claimants dressed expensively? :rolleyes: How do you know they're claimants?
Your 'argument' needs to be a little better thought out.
Either that or your a fully paid up member of the 'hang 'em and flog 'em' brigade at the age of what - 20 or so?
'Gettin' my back up? No dear, takes a lot for anyone to do that.
ok, its not an argument its fact
im 36, not 20
i work 10 hour days, 6 days a week
i obviously cant tell you what i do, cos id get in trouble
but what i can say is that i do visit peoples houses daily, and when people have, in there home, notice boards with there claims pinned to them, and when your re-arranging calls with them , they always say ' anytime mate - i dont work im on the sick', kind of gives it away
im a grown man, with opinions, im entitled to them, i work hard for what i got, ive never claimed
and i do think that some people (not all , admittedly ) label themselves, and use it to screw the system
im not a member of the hang em and flog em brigade
i suppose your one of these people who think that murderers and rapists should be forgiven?
Comments
However,there is a hard core group,up to 3rd generation now,who refuse to work. At least 2 or 3 times a week at my first meeting with aperson I was told to F### off,don't want to work and you can't make me.Unfortunately they are right,whilst benefits can be withdrawn for refusal to work(I'm talking able-bodied here),they go on an emergency benefit and if they have kids then there's nothing can be done.
Theres alot of very good programmes out there to aid people with all sorts of problems get back into work,no pressure is used,many are afraid but theres no need to be,the system works when used properly.
Unfortunately the government keeps messing around with it,I was made redundant 3 yrs ago cos they kept pulling the funding and my company along with many others went under,in my last week of work,I got 4 longterm unemployd good jobs. But every time a company gets up and running with an organised programme,along comes a new minister and messes around with it.
Oh well, sorry for the rant:o:o:)
I also have a husband on DLA so have experiance both sides of the coin!
I'm not off sick. I don't claim benefits. What on earth are you talking about? I work full-time. I started my own business and haven't taken a penny from the government to do it. That doesn't mean I think it's easy for everyone.
well, i would think its the way they dress, and the fact that usually, theyre hammered and have up to 10 empty glasses in front of them... go to work drunk a lot do you?
i saw the program ' the man with 20 kids '
we try not to stereotype people, but its hard
i do 10 hr days ( its rest day today) and i always seem to pass the same pub, on a daily basis - and there always seem to be the same people stood at the door, smoking
and its only people on benefit that can affod to drink, workers are more likely to spend their money on taxes and bills
And it's not a universal fact, it's a new study that was published quite recently. And what it actually says is that going back to work CAN help SOME people IF their employers are helpful, supportive and very flexible.
I do agree with your second paragraph, but I don't think telling people what to do is the way to deal with it - I can't see it working, it's more likely to make people more depressed. They need support and practical help, usually.
at what point did i mention you? 'them' is a different word to 'you'
Maybe they work shifts. Maybe they work night shifts, and this is their pint after work.
And your last point's just silly - most people who work can afford to drink, and benefits do not make you richer than working.
When you said this:
I'm sorry but I think this is all very poorly thought out.
I don't think it'd be very productive for either of us to attempt to move forward with this discussion.
Good luck with your opinions in the future!
So all the people I see in my local high street milling around drinking on a Friday night are out of work?
A silly generalisation methinks. :rolleyes:
you ever thought working people tire of threads like this
?
i see people every day who are on the sick, and dont work
more often than not, theyre usually in the back garden, builing a shed, or laying flags.. or on their way to some relatives to do some decorating
the goverments spot on, its too easy to claim, far too easy
something needs to be done, like i say, the countries on a downward spiral
Well it does appeal to my sadistic, dark humour side but I wouldn't expect it to actually happen, although I would laugh.
The only people I know who are long term unemployed are...
Long Term Sick - the genuine ones won't be affected.
Those who basically can't be arsed - I hate lazy people who offer society nothing but love to take so would love to see this.
Single Mums - Need time for the kids, fair enough. Wouldn't want them to be affected until their kids reach school age.
As I said on another thread. For a few hours a week I don't see the problem. I wouldn't expect it on a full time basis.
So in your eyes all benefit claimants are scruff bags who look like tramps. How do you know these people weren't in their work clothes and having a drink?
and its the cant be arsed ones i agree are the problem
, the rest is fair comment
Like I said, I don't think we are able to connect.
Good luck with your logic.
lol...
At one point I worked for Social Housing and saw plenty of people who could have gotten themselves work, they knew the system and played it like a harp.
It was an ongoing joke about how this type of tenant had enormous TVs and smoked like chimnies. They were perversly proud of the fact that they got it all for free, that the 'social' would pay for this and that, and how if they did this or that, they could screw another few quid out of the system.
Unfortunately, despite our best wishes, some people are just lazy and don't care, our benefits system was good, as long as people understood it was a two way street.
There are those who would gleefully keep their paws in the pot, these are the people who need to be forced to get off their backsides and made to work.
You didn't exactly say it, but you implied it.
You find claimants dressed expensively? :rolleyes: How do you know they're claimants?
Your 'argument' needs to be a little better thought out.
Either that or your a fully paid up member of the 'hang 'em and flog 'em' brigade at the age of what - 20 or so?
'Gettin' my back up? No dear, takes a lot for anyone to do that.
More than likely!
Rubbish. You could get a job doing something from home, you could work part time or you could work for yourself. You could at least make an effort. But hey, why bother when you can do nothing for 20 years and let the rest of us house you, feed you, clothe you and pay for internet access to enable you to rub our noses in it too?
I thought the government was intent on restoring 'the confidence' of the long-term unemployed? What's so restorative about picking up litter? Since when did being unemployed equate to being a criminal? Obviously there are dole-frauds around, working on the sly, but is this the way to deal with them?
As others have said, do those involved have to wear grey jumpsuits with arrows on them, tied together at the ankle with chains? Being unemployed is humiliating enough without making people do community service, a la Boy George or Naomi Campbell.
P.S and all the government could provide was an 18-month long wait for group therapy with a third-rate counsellor on the NHS. People who tar all benefit claimers with the same brush want to keep their mouths shut as they don't know what they're talking about.
:mad:
ok, its not an argument its fact
im 36, not 20
i work 10 hour days, 6 days a week
i obviously cant tell you what i do, cos id get in trouble
but what i can say is that i do visit peoples houses daily, and when people have, in there home, notice boards with there claims pinned to them, and when your re-arranging calls with them , they always say ' anytime mate - i dont work im on the sick', kind of gives it away
im a grown man, with opinions, im entitled to them, i work hard for what i got, ive never claimed
and i do think that some people (not all , admittedly ) label themselves, and use it to screw the system
im not a member of the hang em and flog em brigade
i suppose your one of these people who think that murderers and rapists should be forgiven?