Willow on Evil Willow: *Whispering* "Plus I think I'm kinda gay..."
The foreshadowing was there.
I agree and love WIllows journey too and ending up with tara...
But that is what has been discussed and i find it interesting, that WIllow all of a sudden went from Oz to Tara after going through a grieving phase...and Vampire Willow was openly Bisexual...or Asexual maybe....so that kinda hints that Willow wasnt necessarily strictly "lesbian" but more bisexual orientated which is cool.
But i do think if Willow had kept herself alongside Oz and Seth stayed on it would have made a very interesting journey in itself....and Xander i feel would have opneed himself up to a host of different storylines too had he officially "come out" in season 4....one liners would have been sweet between he and Spike (just imagine!) plus if a new male character (a la Tara) had been introduced as a Warlock and lvoer of Xander it would have sparked new territories for the show too maybe....would be interesting.
Plus Anya and Giles action would have been all the more hilarious and given Giles something more to do with Anya haha!
I agree and love WIllows journey too and ending up with tara...
But that is what has been discussed and i find it interesting, that WIllow all of a sudden went from Oz to Tara after going through a grieving phase...and Vampire Willow was openly Bisexual...or Asexual maybe....so that kinda hints that Willow wasnt necessarily strictly "lesbian" but more bisexual orientated which is cool.
Personally, I think Xander coming out as gay - rather than Willow - would have been great. I also feel it would have worked better, what with there being some foreshadowing of Xander possibly being gay in episodes prior to season four.
I remember the forshadowing of it with Vamp WIllow, but what you need to remember is she was alternative Willow and was the opposite to what the real willow was. Doppelganger's may look but are never the same as the original person, so I never took that comment as a foreshadowing storyline.
Yes, i never liked Riley and it was his unpopularity on why he was written out during Season 5.
I remember the forshadowing of it with Vamp WIllow, but what you need to remember is she was alternative Willow and was the opposite to what the real willow was. Doppelganger's may look but are never the same as the original person, so I never took that comment as a foreshadowing storyline.
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Not the opposite, merely an alternate version. All that happened is that at some point something happened to one that didn't happen to the other. In the case of Vamp Willow, it's that Buffy didn't come to Sunnydale to stop the Master.
The conversation immediately following 'I think I'm kinda gay' was revealing.
Buffy: "Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was."
Angel: "Well, actually... That's a good point."
Angel knew that every Vampires' personality has it's roots in the original person, hence Drusilla's insanity, Spike's romantic side.
I suspect the stuff from Giles about how "you're not looking at your friend. You're looking at the thing that killed him." is Watcher's Council propaganda.
Personally, I think Xander coming out as gay - rather than Willow - would have been great. I also feel it would have worked better, what with there being some foreshadowing of Xander possibly being gay in episodes prior to season four.
Funnily enough, I much preferred that it wasn't Xander for a couple of reasons. I liked the idea that a regular, heterosexual man was comfortable to identify his two closest friends as female. What's more, the show uniquely tailed away from pairing him off with either of them in the end, introducing the brilliant Anya as a third woman in his life.
What's more... Xander was always there, but he was seldom the centre of attention. In Xander-centric episodes, he was always the victim of some misguided spell or something (Hells Bells, The Replacement) and nothing more. In one example of shining as the bright hero, The Zeppo, he was still outshone by his friends and they were none the wiser to his heroics. In his second example of world-saving, in Grave, very little fanfare was ever made of his efforts as the focus shifted to the tragedy of Willow.
The talk that Xander has with Dawn about being the one with no powers and no special strength only reinforces that I wouldn't have liked to have seen Xander as a gay character - it would have become his "thing"...the gay guy in the trio with two dominant women. Leaving him just as "the guy" makes what he does even more credible in my opinion. What was always so significant about Xander, was his insignificance. He was simply the guy that could see everything as it was with a realists view, which is poetic as it was he who lost an eye in the seventh season.
Yes, i never liked Riley and it was his unpopularity on why he was written out during Season 5.
Marc Blucas was nice eye candy, but Riley offered very little in terms of character. There were fleeting moments when he might have been something special, but these few too few and far between. It's odd how his exit came just as the show had a massive turn around. The start and finish of Season 5 are like two very different versions of the show, and I think that Riley departed just as Buffy grew up.
My problem with Willow being a lesbian is that realistically, it would of made sense if she had questioned her sexuality in previous seasons. It just felt like in Season 4 "bam, Willow likes girls now". Like she woke up one day and realised she fancied Tara. It made her character's journey so much better and I adored her and Tara but felt it unrealistically the way she just suddenly became a lesbian.
I disagree though, it wasn't just BAM she's a lesbian, she was friends with Tara at first and then she realised it was something more as time went on, she didn't go into their friendship with the idea of taking it forward, they just formed a bond with their witchcraft and it sort of went from there.
She had no need to question herself in previous seasons because she was with Oz or busy drooling over Xander.
I liked the idea that a regular, heterosexual man was comfortable to identify his two closest friends as female. What's more, the show uniquely tailed away from pairing him off with either of them in the end, introducing the brilliant Anya as a third woman in his life.
...
The talk that Xander has with Dawn about being the one with no powers and no special strength only reinforces that I wouldn't have liked to have seen Xander as a gay character - it would have become his "thing"...the gay guy in the trio with two dominant women. Leaving him just as "the guy" makes what he does even more credible in my opinion. What was always so significant about Xander, was his insignificance. He was simply the guy that could see everything as it was with a realists view, which is poetic as it was he who lost an eye in the seventh season.
I can't disagree with this argument to be honest.:) You make a good point.
Marc Blucas was nice eye candy, but Riley offered very little in terms of character. There were fleeting moments when he might have been something special, but these few too few and far between. It's odd how his exit came just as the show had a massive turn around. The start and finish of Season 5 are like two very different versions of the show, and I think that Riley departed just as Buffy grew up.
What did Riley actually do everyday during the first half of season 5? Buffy and Willow were students still, Xander was a builder, Giles had the magic shop, but I can't remember what Riley was supposedly doing.
What did Riley actually do everyday during the first half of season 5? Buffy and Willow were students still, Xander was a builder, Giles had the magic shop, but I can't remember what Riley was supposedly doing.
Being an emo, playing his own violins and getting vampires-for-hire
Personally, I think Xander coming out as gay - rather than Willow - would have been great. I also feel it would have worked better, what with there being some foreshadowing of Xander possibly being gay in episodes prior to season four.
I watched "Phases" the other night, as part of my complete re-watch, and that had a brilliantly awkward crosswired conversation between Xander and some bullying jock, as Xander was questioning him thinking he was the werewolf while the bullying jock thought Xander had realised that the jock was actually gay.
I watched "Phases" the other night, as part of my complete re-watch, and that had a brilliantly awkward crosswired conversation between Xander and some bullying jock, as Xander was questioning him thinking he was the werewolf while the bullying jock thought Xander had realised that the jock was actually gay.
I think its all down to perception the way Xander may have gone...i mean it is true in thinmking he was a core member in his "unacknowledged triumphs" like The Zeppo etc yes Abomination....but i also feel maybe if he had more plots to himself it would have been interesting to see where his character may have gone...also with more male star power too??? allowing more balance eprhaps rather a lack thereof definitely.
I think it still would be interesting...but i take it the season 9 comics are going to do "what they couldnt do with Xander" with that new character...hmmm?
Since rewatching Season 1, i have a new found love for it. I always found it to be a rather weak season but stories such as Witch, Never Kill a boy on the first date, I Robot you Jane and Out of sight out of mind are fantastic viewing.
I think season 1 or me is also the weakest of all of them for a number of reasons...it set everything up for the years to come, the story arc was simplistic in comparison for what was to come, there are only 12 episodes....but there are classics there agree LM and also its strengths are within its weaknesses of season 1...it set a LOT up within 12 episodes which kudos all round really....but i cannot name (ironically) a better way to start a series off either?
So yeah most likely my least favourite season but still so damn great!
I like season 1,it set things going & unlike alot of shows these days it kept your interest right up until the last episode.
they introduced new characters & set up a story & concluded it in 12 episodes..some series these days struggle with that (except dexter thats awesome):D
i watch season 1 now & look at what the characters went through in the 7 years we saw them..amazing journeys
The fight scenes were awful in season one, not to mention the acting wasn't as good, it seemed that with the beginning of season two they stepped up in terms of acting, storytelling, scripts and of course fight scenes!
The fight scenes were awful in season one, not to mention the acting wasn't as good, it seemed that with the beginning of season two they stepped up in terms of acting, storytelling, scripts and of course fight scenes!
Well, speaking as someone with over 25 years martial arts experience I'm of the opinion the fight scenes looked good enough. Certainly not awful...if you want awful then look no further than The Matrix fight scenes.
tbh i think they did so well with the budget in season 1...in terms of fight scenes etc they were very well done actually i think...and totally...so many shows cannot do in 12 episodes when Buffy did in its first season...credit where due definitely.
And yes i love when you re-watch from the beginning and see where they have all come across 7 years...its beautiful.
tbh i think they did so well with the budget in season 1...in terms of fight scenes etc they were very well done actually i think...and totally...so many shows cannot do in 12 episodes when Buffy did in its first season...credit where due definitely.
The first season fights seemed to make more effort to incorporate Gellar into the action, so they come across as little more basic. From season 2, the fights tended to be shot more fast paced with only a few close ups, so they could just let Sophia Crawford do her thing.
i'm sure i read somewhere joss whedon said the budget for season 1 was very low (being 1st season & all) & if he had the money it would have been alot different
The first season fights seemed to make more effort to incorporate Gellar into the action, so they come across as little more basic. From season 2, the fights tended to be shot more fast paced with only a few close ups, so they could just let Sophia Crawford do her thing.
Nowhere near "awful" though, as suggested earlier by another poster.
And whilst not as fast paced as later season fight scenes, the fight scenes in season 1 were indeed very well done.
I like the fight scenes too. I think it is funny how we never (or, at least, very rarely) actually see anyone get hit during a fight scene - just the move and the reaction.:D I certainly don't think they are 'awful.'
My favourite episodes are The Witch, The Puppet Show, Never Kill A Boy On The First Date, and Out Of Mind Out of Sight.
The Puppet Show was the first Buffy episode I ever watched which, being aged 10/11, really freaked me out. Now; The Puppet Show is probably my favourite episode in season one. It is a funny episode, with a couple of unexpected twists - great fun!
Comments
I agree and love WIllows journey too and ending up with tara...
But that is what has been discussed and i find it interesting, that WIllow all of a sudden went from Oz to Tara after going through a grieving phase...and Vampire Willow was openly Bisexual...or Asexual maybe....so that kinda hints that Willow wasnt necessarily strictly "lesbian" but more bisexual orientated which is cool.
But i do think if Willow had kept herself alongside Oz and Seth stayed on it would have made a very interesting journey in itself....and Xander i feel would have opneed himself up to a host of different storylines too had he officially "come out" in season 4....one liners would have been sweet between he and Spike (just imagine!) plus if a new male character (a la Tara) had been introduced as a Warlock and lvoer of Xander it would have sparked new territories for the show too maybe....would be interesting.
Plus Anya and Giles action would have been all the more hilarious and given Giles something more to do with Anya haha!
Aye. He played Kelly's boyfriend in an episode (IIRC). You can look it up on IMDB, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004770/?ref_=sr_1.:)
Yep, according to IMDB, MWC was David Boreanaz's first acting credit.
I think you mean pansexual.
Personally, I think Xander coming out as gay - rather than Willow - would have been great. I also feel it would have worked better, what with there being some foreshadowing of Xander possibly being gay in episodes prior to season four.
Yes, i never liked Riley and it was his unpopularity on why he was written out during Season 5.
Not the opposite, merely an alternate version. All that happened is that at some point something happened to one that didn't happen to the other. In the case of Vamp Willow, it's that Buffy didn't come to Sunnydale to stop the Master.
The conversation immediately following 'I think I'm kinda gay' was revealing.
Buffy: "Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was."
Angel: "Well, actually... That's a good point."
Angel knew that every Vampires' personality has it's roots in the original person, hence Drusilla's insanity, Spike's romantic side.
I suspect the stuff from Giles about how "you're not looking at your friend. You're looking at the thing that killed him." is Watcher's Council propaganda.
What's more... Xander was always there, but he was seldom the centre of attention. In Xander-centric episodes, he was always the victim of some misguided spell or something (Hells Bells, The Replacement) and nothing more. In one example of shining as the bright hero, The Zeppo, he was still outshone by his friends and they were none the wiser to his heroics. In his second example of world-saving, in Grave, very little fanfare was ever made of his efforts as the focus shifted to the tragedy of Willow.
The talk that Xander has with Dawn about being the one with no powers and no special strength only reinforces that I wouldn't have liked to have seen Xander as a gay character - it would have become his "thing"...the gay guy in the trio with two dominant women. Leaving him just as "the guy" makes what he does even more credible in my opinion. What was always so significant about Xander, was his insignificance. He was simply the guy that could see everything as it was with a realists view, which is poetic as it was he who lost an eye in the seventh season.
Marc Blucas was nice eye candy, but Riley offered very little in terms of character. There were fleeting moments when he might have been something special, but these few too few and far between. It's odd how his exit came just as the show had a massive turn around. The start and finish of Season 5 are like two very different versions of the show, and I think that Riley departed just as Buffy grew up.
I disagree though, it wasn't just BAM she's a lesbian, she was friends with Tara at first and then she realised it was something more as time went on, she didn't go into their friendship with the idea of taking it forward, they just formed a bond with their witchcraft and it sort of went from there.
She had no need to question herself in previous seasons because she was with Oz or busy drooling over Xander.
I can't disagree with this argument to be honest.:) You make a good point.
What did Riley actually do everyday during the first half of season 5? Buffy and Willow were students still, Xander was a builder, Giles had the magic shop, but I can't remember what Riley was supposedly doing.
Being an emo, playing his own violins and getting vampires-for-hire
Excellent end to a strong season. Season 3 next, which means the Mayor and Faith
So many great bits in it, plus a nice line about Willow opening up to the dark arts...
I watched "Phases" the other night, as part of my complete re-watch, and that had a brilliantly awkward crosswired conversation between Xander and some bullying jock, as Xander was questioning him thinking he was the werewolf while the bullying jock thought Xander had realised that the jock was actually gay.
Larry! Good fringe character.
I think it still would be interesting...but i take it the season 9 comics are going to do "what they couldnt do with Xander" with that new character...hmmm?
So yeah most likely my least favourite season but still so damn great!
they introduced new characters & set up a story & concluded it in 12 episodes..some series these days struggle with that (except dexter thats awesome):D
i watch season 1 now & look at what the characters went through in the 7 years we saw them..amazing journeys
Well, speaking as someone with over 25 years martial arts experience I'm of the opinion the fight scenes looked good enough. Certainly not awful...if you want awful then look no further than The Matrix fight scenes.
And yes i love when you re-watch from the beginning and see where they have all come across 7 years...its beautiful.
Nowhere near "awful" though, as suggested earlier by another poster.
And whilst not as fast paced as later season fight scenes, the fight scenes in season 1 were indeed very well done.
I like the fight scenes too. I think it is funny how we never (or, at least, very rarely) actually see anyone get hit during a fight scene - just the move and the reaction.:D I certainly don't think they are 'awful.'
My favourite episodes are The Witch, The Puppet Show, Never Kill A Boy On The First Date, and Out Of Mind Out of Sight.
The Puppet Show was the first Buffy episode I ever watched which, being aged 10/11, really freaked me out. Now; The Puppet Show is probably my favourite episode in season one. It is a funny episode, with a couple of unexpected twists - great fun!