A little off topic, but I started watching Dexter a few weeks ago, and Julie Benz (Darla) was a main character. I have just finished S4. So fantastic. And for those who want to still watch it, I will put it in spoilers.
The character played by Julie, Rita, being killed at the end of S4. So odd seeing Julie playing a "non vampire". Her death though was just shocking! Why must she die everywhere???
A little off topic, but I started watching Dexter a few weeks ago, and Julie Benz (Darla) was a main character. I have just finished S4. So fantastic. And for those who want to still watch it, I will put it in spoilers.
The character played by Julie, Rita, being killed at the end of S4. So odd seeing Julie playing a "non vampire". Her death though was just shocking! Why must she die everywhere???
She's one of the leads in Defiance on the UK SyFy Channel too.
There are a lot of names with a ridiculous number of diminutives. John's the worst one I think! John itself is an English translation of Iohannes, derived from the name Yochanan. From these names you get names including but far from limited to: Joan, Ian, Jean, Hans, Sean, Shane, Evan, Sian, Joanna, Jane, Hank...
(this is something I initially learned in a Vlogbrothers)
- I don't usually like episodes that open with a fast paced conversation because I almost always miss out exposition. This episode was no exception. I gather they're going to get a head to stop a war of something...
- That being said, Spike playing on his Game Boy was good. I also like how he's now the go to guy for everything.
- I'm 98% confident that Buffy won't be in this episode; there wasn't a picture of her on the episode menu!
- 'Ciao.'
- The knowledge that Angel has been keeping tabs on Buffy reminds me of his early season 1 days. We've come full circle!
- It also takes me back when he used to randomly creep up on Lilah. Fun times...
- Huh. I thought the reveal that Fred's parents were back - not that Buffy and the Immortal had started to data - would take us into the commercial break.
- It's a clever idea to make Angels the focus of a comedy episode since it's uncharted territory more or less but, considering that this is likely to be his last time on the show, part of me wishes they'd use him n a more dramatic capacity instead.
- 'Son of a bitch.'
- WTF Illyria. (I also wonder if Wesley might be hallucinating not only this but also Fred's parents arrival. Whatever happens it can't end well.)
- Yup. After that little scene in the club, Buffy's definitely not going to be in this episode now.
- The chase scene involving Spangel on the moped is one of the most surreal sequences that this show has ever done. I think I liked it?
- I love that Spike got nicked for tax evasion regardless.
- I WANT TO SEE MORE OF THE ROME OFFICE OF WOLFRAM AND HART!
- I quite like the CEO of W&H Rome but I think I would have loved Italian Angel quite a bit more. The line about Italian Wesley also taking a nap was so random that I couldn't help but laugh.
- Phew! I was terrified for some reason that when Ilyria hugged Fred's parents she would revert back to he natural self.
- On the topic of that, Amy Acker continues to astound me more by the day. Her transitions between 'Fred' and Illyria were absolutely amazing.
- It seemed a little redundant to get rid of Spike's iconic (?) jacket only to give him a new one five minutes later. Angel's new get up made me smile though!
- Wow. They really didn't use Darla, Drusilla and Andrew much in this episode, did they? I'm actually bitterly disappointed about that with maybe the exception of Andrew since obviously he came back earlier on. I mean this is the final season. Play to your strengths!
- To conclude, this episode was OK I guess but I think it would have worked a lot better earlier on in the season. My main gripe was Angel's behaviour feels really all over the place at the moment. Like, how did we go from him essentially consigning a unborn baby to death to larking about in Rome with Spike? In fairness though, their dynamic will never stop being entertaining to me and I'm glad that we got one last chance for fun between the two. The only other thing I want to mention is how jarring the tonal differences between the two stories were. I guess they complimented each other well enough in the end with the theme of closure but the Rome plot felt a bit all over the place to tell you the truth. The humour also felt a bit too zany in spots and this wasn't exactly helped by the musical score. Ultimately, I liked this one but I didn't love it.
Power Play
- And now Angel's back to being all dark and brooding again. I don't suppose he's putting it on?
- I was going to query why Angel didn't lose his soul after having sex with Nina but thinking back they didn't part ways because of the actual act. He lost it later on when he was basking in the glow of the woman he loved. Poor Nina.
- I don't know why but I feel this is shaping up to be the first of a two part episode. I hope it is - especially since the battle with the Senior Partners is presumably nigh.
- Ah I think I'm now starting to get a sense of just why the ending's so controversial. Not only is Angel shaping up to be the Big Bad but also - in my humble opinion - in sort of seems to have come out of nowhere. I mean just last episode he was gallivanting in Rome with Spike and now he's effectively alienating and double crossing all of his friends. Spoilers for Dollhouse
but I just watched the episodes where Boyd was revealed as the controller of Rossum. It reminds me of a marginally better version of that.
- Why is Lindsey in cuffs all of a sudden? Did he kill Eve? I'm struggling to think of any prior offences. Also, why don't the Senior Partners just put him straight back in that holding dimension? What Illyria did was incredibly clever and all but surely they must have noticed her ruse by now?
- Ugh. I really don't like the implication that Angel killed Fred. It doesn't make much sense and I sincerely hope that he's faking.
- I also was half expecting him to kill Nina as well. She got off lucky I suppose.
- Illyria playing video games was a beautiful thing. The keeper of the Well (I forget his name) also reminds me of Groo a little bit.
- Angel's induction into the Circle of the Black Thorn was so incredibly rushed that it spoiled what could have been an otherwise enjoyable twist. It reminds me a little of the episode Hero in season 1 when he went undercover into that demon hating gang.
- For some reason the politician referencing 2008 like it was in the future also freaked me out. That's so long ago now.
- I don't have much of a problem with Angel double crossing the Circle of the Black Thorn but he only just joined them for crying out loud. Isn't he going to spend time winning their trust? Apparently not! (I also suppose he doesn't need to, really).
- In spite of that, I really liked that ending. I feel it set up the finale well and really raised the stakes. I also imagine Marcus knows what he's up to judging by his look at the end?
- To conclude, this episode had some really fantastic ideas (and I mean that truly from the bottom of my heart) but... ugh. To be perfectly blunt the pacing sucked. Now don't get me wrong I'm a fan of the brisker pace but I really do think this arc would have been better suited to lasting a couple of episodes. It also doesn't help that, as mentioned before, I think Angel's characterisation has been somewhat over the place. Then again some of my criticisms might seem a little unfair because the show was cancelled before they had a chance to finish things properly?
- Going off the episode menu for Not Fade Away, the finale looks to be incredibly epic. I mean a fight in the rain - what's not to love about that?
With the sole exception of the Donald Sutherland version - which I like to pretend it's unofficially called - as of yesterday I've now seen every single episode and movie of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Firefly, Dollhouse and Angel. It's strange to think that at the start of the year I hadn't watched any! And on that bombshell this thread's just about done, I think...
Not Fade Away
- I can't wait to watch this episode. Genuinely, I don't think I've been more hyped for a finale of anything even if I was a little too vocal about some of my problems with the preceding installment.
- Which reminds me: I didn't address the implication that Angelus and Spike once had a little bit of a thing! Aw, I bet they love each other really. As a side note, the episode boasted a good performance from David Boreanaz as well.
- Connor's back? I guess he did remember. I also thought that Faith might be in this episode thereby setting up the post-series comic.
- Joss Whedon didn't direct this episode, the series final? Huh. I thought that was more or less the norm across his shows.
- Well there goes the Shansu! I mean I can understand Angel's motivations but that's still a little bit bit of a blow – especially since it would have wrapped up the series in a pretty little bow. Ah well. Who wants to be a human anyway? For the record, my prediction now is that whatever happens come the final scene he'll wind up alone.
- 'I want you Lindsey.'
- Wait what if Angel really has been corrupted by the Circle of the Black Thorn and is going to wind up betraying all of his friends in the end?
- Anne would have made a good member of Angel Investigations, don't you think? I say Angel Investigations because I don't think she would have signed up for Wolfram and Hart in an instant.
- Hey isn't that Spike's poem from Fool for Love? The use of the word effulgent tipped me off. (:D)
- Seriously though, I love this finale. I'm really impressed how no-one's actions feel out of character. Like, I can totally believe that this is what the gang would do on their final day.
- Since Eve's future is meant to be crappy, I'm guessing that Lindsey is going to die in this episode? Y'know I'm seriously starting to think that Angel might betray everyone!
- Gunn's not wrong about the day going by quickly. I thought they'd have spent some more time on each of those scenes but that's more of a trivial complaint, really.
- Even if Harmony's betrayal of Angel does feel like a thing she would actually do, I sincerely hope that it's all been a trick and this is just her idea of keeping Hamilton busy.
- Speaking of whom, I like his character. Well, the bits and pieces of it we've seen over these past couple of episodes. The writers haven't exactly given him that much to do.
- We finally get to see Spike interact a baby! I remember requesting that when these reviews first started because I thought it'd be funny and it's nice that it happened – and in the very last episode no less!
- Gunn better not die, surrounded by vampires.
- Since there's only something like ten minutes left, I'm going to say either the result is left ambiguous or that Angel does in fact betray his friends in the end?
- Why the f**k did Lorne kill Lindsey? I know Angel didn't especially trust him but the circumstances behind it really annoyed me. Good death scene though and performance from Christian Kane.
- Ugh... I swear Angel's like the biggest dick at the moment (and, no, that's not intended to be a compliment!)
- I've known Wesley was going to die for a long time now (since about mid season 2, thanks to the title of a YouTube video) but still way to stick the knife in further with yet another death messrs Whedon and Bell!
- His death scene was wonderful though. It's nice that he got the chance to say goodbye to Fred, and I found Illyria's reaction to be really interesting too.
- WTF Illyria! Someone's been taking lessons in killing from Connor.
- That was a pretty novel way to get rid of Hamilton I must admit.
- URGH I want to see that final battle so bad. Somewhat ironically, It could have been like a watered down version of Minas Tirith in the Lord of the Rings.
- <cue obligatory joke about how even with all the added demons involved LA doesn't look any different>
- I do feel bad for the poor people however. If only there had been some discrete way to consult them first.
- I don't know why but I found Illyria's revelation that Wesley had died to be more upsetting than the actual thing. I guess because I didn't know it was coming and it was just so blunt.
- 'Personally, I kind of want to slay the dragon. Let's get to work.'
- Um... is that the ending? That's a little abrupt. Still, it beats a fade to black I suppose!
- In retrospect though, I really enjoyed the conclusion we got. It fits in nicely with the theme of the show about how the fight will never be over and at least we received some sort of clarification about where it's heading. Besides, it'd be a little too morbid if every single character were seen to die.
- And this is just a random thought but wouldn't Angel and the rest of the gang now survive after death in a certain respect because of the contract he signed? I assume the Senior Partners could maybe put a stop to that though or just torture them all instead?
- To conclude, I LOVED this episode. I think it might even be my favourite so far seeing as how it was everything I wanted and more. In the public interest, I liked it a lot more than I did Chosen. I'm not quite sure when I'll get about to reading the comics – if at all – so for now this'll be my final proper exposure to new material from the Buffyverse. That's sad because I've enjoyed this a lot and I'm really going to miss seeing what everyone says and does next. The same is true of this thread as well – this really has been so much fun. I've been thinking for a little while now what I should put for a closing off comment and I think I finally figured it out. If anyone bothers to watch to end of the credits you'll know there's sometimes a quote from Angel that appears. I say sometimes because they only used it throughout season 2 and season 3 but just this once I'm bringing it back. Here goes: thank you. Thank you very much.
Wesley's death makes me cry like a ten-year-old girl every time I see it. The whole scene from "would you like me to lie to you now," until he's gone - with Illyria still crying as Fred even after Wes has died. Then everything from the moment she gives the look to Vail to the moment she makes his head explode had me grinning and punching the air. I can't think of any scene in anything else that has made me switch between emotions so aggressively.
I've also not read any of the comics, mainly because I like to leave this as a conclusion. It fits with the overall theme of Angel - fighting not for redemption, but because they can. Even if it means their deaths.
Wesley's death makes me cry like a ten-year-old girl every time I see it. The whole scene from "would you like me to lie to you now," until he's gone - with Illyria still crying as Fred even after Wes has died. Then everything from the moment she gives the look to Vail to the moment she makes his head explode had me grinning and punching the air. I can't think of any scene in anything else that has made me switch between emotions so aggressively.
I've also not read any of the comics, mainly because I like to leave this as a conclusion. It fits with the overall theme of Angel - fighting not for redemption, but because they can. Even if it means their deaths.
Wesley's death got to me too. The bit where Illyria lied to him was beautiful, and we got one last glimpse of Fred.
I'm a big fan of the comics, except for the Angel ones set after the TV show. The artwork was so bad it made them unreadable for me. The artist seemed to have no understanding of how to do basic layouts. Just awful.
When they re-launched Angel's title as 'Angel & Faith' it picked up immensely and is now one of my favourite reads each month.
I know most people here have probably already seen it but I wound up watching Joss Whedon's version of Much Ado About Nothing on Netflix last night and I definitely recommend it to those of you who haven't. It's worth it just to see characters from all the different Whedon shows interact imo.
In the interest of winter clearing, I also thought I might as well tie up some loose odds and ends before singing off with a proper Angel retrospective at some point tomorrow. To be honest, I don't really know why I've been sitting on some of these for so long...
Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 7 Predictions Round Up
- Angel will reappear in this season. Yep. He appeared towards the end of End of Days and buggered off part way into Chosen.
- Spike with a soul will be awkward and polite. I think it'd be sweet if he resumed writing his poetry. Nope. I don't think he was that different actually.
- On that note, I think Jonathan and Andrew will come back and encounter Spike early on in the season. They both looked like they were in some kind of exotic country ...? They did come back but didn't meet Spike in a foreign country and nor did they early on in the season.
- Willow will die this season. Thankfully, no.
- Xander's parents and D'Hoffryn will come back this season. Xander's parents returned but D'Horrfyn did not. Wait...
- I know there is a Dragon Ball Z reference this season which consists of two characters arguing who is stronger - Goku or Vegeta. Since James Marsters is a massive fan of the show and Xander likes his comics, I'm going to assume that Spike and Xander are the ones who make it. No! In fairness though ages ago someone did tell me (I'm sure) that's what the reference was. Bah!
- We will meet the First Watcher and vampire this season. I guess you could say we met the First Watchers but we did not meet the original vampire (I'm assuming the Turok Han doesn't count.)
- The final scene will suggest that no matter what happens life goes on. To this end then, the final scene will be Buffy going to fight vampires. Wrong!
- The Hellmouth will be opened once more. Right!
- Willow will turn evil again this season but will not be the Big Bad. The Big Bad will be something new. Nope. The First came back to wreak havoc instead.
- We will FINALLY see Buffy's dad in the real world again. I wish (and so does Buffy too probably. Bless her heart.)
Score: 5/19
Season 7 Best to Worst List
Conversations with Dead People
Chosen
Never Leave Me
Selfless
Sleeper
Same Time, Same Place
Touched
Dirty Girls
Him
First Date
Storyteller
Empty Places
Showtime
Lessons
Beneath You
End of Days
Help
Potential
Get it Done
The Killer in Me
Bring on the Night
Buffy the Vampire Slayer First Impressions Top 25 List
1: Once More with Feeling
2: The Gift
3: The Body
4: Becoming (Part 2)
5: Passion
6: Restless
7: Hush
8: Conversations with Dead People
9: Spiral
10: Chosen
11: Never Leave Me
12: Villains
13: Selfless
14: Two to Go
15: Sleeper
16: Lie to Me
17: The Zeppo
18: Amends
19: Consequences
20: Same Time, Same Place
21: Doppelgangland
22: Homecoming
23: Triangle
24: Seeing Red
25: Lovers Walk
Buffy the Vampire Slayer First Impressions Bottom 25 List
119: Where the Wild Things Are
120: Potential
121: Wrecked
122: Listening to Fear
123: Doomed
124: The Dark Age
125: Wild at Heart
126: Go Fish
127: Family
128: Beer Bad
129: I Robot... You, Jane
130: As You Were
131: Never Kill a Boy on the First Date
132: New Moon Rising
133: Dead Things
134: Out of My Mind
135: The I in Team
136: Doublemeat Palace
137: Dead Man's Party
138: Inca Mummy Girl
139: Get it Done
140: The Killer in Me
141: Buffy vs Dracula
142: Older and Far Away
143: Reptile Boy
144: Bring on the Night
Angel Season 5 Predictions Round Up
- Unlikely but I think this season will be less arc heavy than Seasons 3 and 4. We'll see the show get back to being quite episodic instead, what with everyone WORKING FOR WOLFRAM AND HART! Yup. I think it's fair to say that the arc was pretty low-key this season.
- I'm sure I've read in this thread that the ending's a little controversial. If so, I imagine that Angel will wind up betraying all of his friends in a major way and maybe he'll kill some of them too? I'm thinking at the moment Fred, Lorne and Gunn are possibly for it – these being the original characters introduced on the show? It would explain why the comic series is entitled 'After the Fall'. Well Fred died but fortunately she wasn't offed by Angel even though he did try to convince us otherwise. I competely forgot about that prediction, actually...
- I also think there's a good chance that we'll see Angelus again out of a flashback though not for a sustained period of time like in Angel Season 4 and Buffy Season 2. No. That might have been a bit too predicable...
- Charisma Carpenter will have a special guest appearance in the finale in a cameo sequence. Cordelia did come back but not in the finale and for more than a cameo.
- Darla, Lindsey, Gwen, Connor and Holland will reappear in this season. Darla, Lindsey and Connor returned.
- I can't remember her name but the 'human super computer' in Wolfram and Hart's archiving will come back as well. No. She was probably killed by The Beast wasn't she?
- This is less of a prediction and more of a hope: the Senior Partners need to be stopped. Who knows?
- Angel will get a new love interest this season. NINA!
- We will see the Powers that Be and the Senior Partners this season. Nope.
- There in an episode called A Hole in the World and it's meant to be sad. A main character will die in this episode. Freddykins no!
- Finally, Angel will be unpopular around the office. I'm thinking of a boss who tries too hard to be chummy with colleagues (and also because of his Barry Manilow love.) Well, this is a bit of a stupid prediction since obviously everyone would be trying to kill him due to his attempts to reform the company but he wasn't really teased in the way I expected so no points.
Score: 7/22
Angel Season 5 Best to Worst List
Not Fade Away
Underneath
Smile Time
A Hole in the World
Damage
Lineage
Conviction
Shells
Destiny
You're Welcome
Unleashed
Life of the Party
Hell Bound
Origin
Power Play
The Girl in Question
Why We Fight
Just Rewards
Soul Purpose
Time Bomb
Harm's Way
The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco
Angel First Impressions Top 25 List
1: Not Fade Away
2: Peace Out
3: Reunion -
4: I Will Remember You
5: Spin The Bottle
6: Awakening
7: Eternity
8: Sanctuary
9: Dear Boy
10: Are You Now or Have You Ever Been
11: Reprise
12: Soulless
13: Underneath
14: Smile Time
15: Lullaby
16: Tomorrow
17: Shiny Happy People
18: The Magic Bullet
19: A Hole in the World
20: Players
21: To Shansu in LA
22: Blind Date
23: The Price
24: Damage
25: Lineage
Angel First Impressions Bottom 25 List
86: Sacrifice
87: Long Day's Journey
88: Forgiving
89: Benediction
90: Double or Nothing
91: Quickening
92: Offspring
93: Harm's Way
94: The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco
95: She
96: Untouched
97: I Fall to Pieces
98: Inside Out
99: Rm w/a Vu
100: Sense and Sensitivity
101: The Ring
102: Through the Looking Glass
103: The Shroud of Rahmon
104: A New World
105: Provider
106: Supersymmetry
107: The Thin Dead Line
108: War Zone
109: Happy Anniversary
1110: The Prodigal
Just a quick observation but in looking back at the list I compiled I don't think there's a fat out bad one in either show. In both Angel and Buffy, there was always at least one thing per episode I seemed to enjoy. Personally, I found that to be more true of Angel than I did do of Buffy if only because there wasn't one especially hated in the same manner as the bottom 2 or 3 on the Buffy chart.
I'm not entirely sure when I'll get around to doing a rewatch but certainly some of the earlier episodes deserve a second watch sometime in the immediate future.
Yep - I totally agree! There isn't a single episode that I think is truly 'bad'. I like all of them in some way. Some of them may be a bit cringey, but they're not truly terrible.
Often with great shows we hear the line "*** at its worst is still better than most else on TV." But with Buffy and Angel (and Firefly) it is actually kinda true.
For instance, I'm a big Star Trek fan. I grew up with TNG and DS9 and love them. But both shows have some really bad episodes. I love Doctor Who, but by god there are some episodes that make me cringe!
Buffy and Angel have some episodes that aren't my favourites, but that is more compared to the rest of the output of the shows. There aren't really any I find unwatchable though and nothing I skip on a re-watch.
With the sole exception of the Donald Sutherland version - which I like to pretend it's unofficially called - as of yesterday I've now seen every single episode and movie of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Firefly, Dollhouse and Angel.
Don't forget to watch Dr Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.
I remember when the DVD box sets came out, many years ago, that this issue came up. People complained about the 4:3 ratio and I think that quote of Joss' is from that time.
I think a lot of people today just expect widescreen on eveything now. You hardly ever see 4:3 and, even when you do, people Zoom their TV's to make it look wide anyway.
Personally I'm a stickler for the correct aspect ratio. I never use the Zoom or Stretch features of my TV. I agree with Joss, if it was shot 4:3 it should be viewed 4:3.
It wasn't "shot in 4:3". It was shot in the Super35 format from series 3 onwards, which is 16:9. However, the show was mainly framed for 4:3, whilst being mostly protected for 16:9.
The recent HD remasters shown on Pivot (a US channel) are all 16:9 but series 1 was mostly cropped and series 2 was half-and-half. They've just started series 3 and so far they've mostly "opened out the sides" just like for the original 16:9 versions of series 4-7 (as found on PAL DVDs).
Joss Whedon says the show was framed for 4:3, which is true, but we know for a fact that the full 16:9 area is usable for most shots (there's maybe one 16:9 framing issue per episode in series 4 and fewer beyond that). Whedon also didn't direct most episodes so whether a particular episode was only framed for 4:3 is up for debate. I imainge most episodes were mainly framed for 4:3 but considering that the full 16:9 frame is usable most of the time implies that they were concious of 16:9 protection, even if it was a low priority.
If you're a purist I suppose 4:3 is the preferred format. Personally, I prefer the 16:9 versions of most episodes, although I'd obviously like all of the errors to be fixed. It seems as if Fox is adamant on using 16:9 for these remasters and it'd be better if Whedon was asked to oversee the remastering process because so far the results are poor.
Hopefully there'll be both a 4:3 and 16:9 release (maybe one on BD and the other via a download) so everyone can be happy. If an HD remaster was done properly then I'd take it, no matter which aspect ratio they went with.
This is just a random post of sorts (making a bad habit of those recently) but I've been rewatching select episodes of Buffy and Angel these past couple of days (whilst I've been (meaning to start) working on the retrospective of the latter) and here are some of my very brief thoughts.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Teacher's Pet: Really didn't like this one second time round. The whole thing was a little too stupid and I didn't like the subplot with the vampire either.
Prophecy Girl: Loved this one. I still maintain that the battle with the Master was rushed and the ending was a little abrupt but other than that I have very little complaints. SMG was a knockout during the scene where she declared that she didn't want to die.
Surprise: I got this one confused with Innocence so when I said earlier on I really enjoyed it just so you know I was a tad confused. That's not to say it's a bad episode per say but rather I found it a little bit rushed. You might even say I found it disjointed. I also could have sworn Angel and Buffy went ice skating in this one but I must be confusing with Bad Eggs now too as I initially watched that and this one back to back. Random but it was a good performance from Robia LaMorte as well. Other than that, Angel saying he was going to give Buffy a birthday surprise was so not subtle.
Innocence: This was a really good episode though I don't know if I rate it as highly as others. There's no particular reason for that. (When did they start calling him Angelus though? Season 3?)
Faith, Hope and Trick: I don't remember the episode being this good. The plot in itself was pretty straightforward but there were lots of fantastic lines of dialogue. I remembered Giles's fondness for kayaks but I totally forgot it 'originated' here.
Homecoming: Didn't enjoy this episode as much on a rewatch; I remember it being funnier first time round. That aside, Giles joking Buffy was in danger whilst at the prom still made me laugh.
Helpless: This was great (though I was tired when I watched it so I sort of found it a little bit boring). I thought Kralik and the ending battle was very suspenseful.
The Zeppo: I still really liked this one though as with Homecoming I didn't laugh as much on repeat viewing.
Once More, with Feeling: This is still my favourite episode. The lyrics for all the songs are especially clever - though my favourites are still Walk Through the Fire and Rest in Peace. Really like Going through the Motions and Where Do We Go From Here as well.
Angel
Reunion: This episode lost a lot of gusto and punch on rewatch though I think it's the same with any thriller really. I also found it a bit stoppy starty in regards to the stuff with Darla and Dru.
Reprise: This might well be my favourite episode of the series now that I've seen it a second time. The dialogue and story was really fantastic.
Epiphany: More or less the same as above though it was a little jarring - as with the rest of the season 2 episodes - to revisit the arc out of context when it was in full swing. Like, I totally forgot Wesley was in a wheelchair!
Apocalypse Nowish: Very strong episode. I don't think I'd place it in my personal top ten but I'd certainly rank it as one of the finest hours in the show. It did bug me remembering very little about what the Beast was up to though!
Soulless: The episode where Angelus tears his friends apart in spectacular style was one I rewatched on Christmas Day.
I also caught the second half of a movie called EuroTrip on BBC 1 this morning after noticing that Michelle Trachtenberg was in it. It was certainly a contender for one of the strangest films I've watched in my life though it was alright. WTH was Vinnie Jones cameo at the end all about though? (A quick Google search informs me that he appeared earlier on. Ah makes slightly more sense now.)
I've only seen the show as a whole once and I was planning on rewatching it when an HD remaster was done but now I'm not so sure since it has so many issues.
Spoilers below!
I'd find it difficult rating individual episodes without rewatching because I honestly can't remember what happens in most of them. I prefer to treating the show in its entirety, or at least on a series-by-series basis, since the character arcs and development are so important and singling out episodes in that regard can be tough. The general consensus is that series 2, 3, and 5 are the best. Series 2 has the epic Angel turn and subsequent fall-out; series 3 has probably the best "big bad", Faith, and is very consistent; series 5 has a great "big bad" and finale, a great mystery in Dawn, some awesome stand-alone episodes, and probably the best cast of all the series (Tara and Spike get more prominent, Dawn is added to hugely shake things up, Giles is still there, and Riley buggers off).
Here's a quick run down of the main reasons why the other series often appear lower in people's "best to worst Buffy series" lists (most of which I agree with or understand):
- Series 1 is all over the place in terms of quality and is very "monster of the week"ish. It's also short and of course everyone involved is still finding their feet, which makes it slightly odd to watch after seeing the other series.
- Series 4 has a lot of great episodes (probably the most out of all the series actually) but the arc is pretty weak. It has the worst "big bad" in Adam, several main characters left (Oz, Angel, Cordelia), plus this is the only series for which the Scooby Gang has no headquarters so it feels a bit scattered. Riley is prominent and generally "just there" - he's kinda boring, although maybe that was to show that Buffy was never going to have a normal life. Tara isn't yet a main character and still very unsure of herself, and the Initiative storyline just peters out into nothing after having a few promising moments. Shame, really, because this series had a lot of potential and it ended up as "good but not great".
- Series 6 is dark and depressing. There's no real "big bad", although there are three prominent antagonists: Willow, The Trio, and "life". It's a bit harder to root for the characters in this series: Buffy is distant and annoying, Spike is morally questionable, Giles leaves the group high and dry for dubious reasons (mainly cos Anthony Stewart Head wanted to leave), Xander leaves Anya for no real reason other than to cause more rifts within the group, Anya and Spike hook up which hurts Xander and Buffy, Willow becomes a murderer....the only protagonist who remained "pure" in this series is Tara and she gets killed off for her troubles. I suppose there's also Dawn but I can't remember much of what she did in series 6.
- Series 7 is basically a cluster****. It feels a bit like a fanfic because they tried to cram in as many former characters/actors as possible, as well as adding in numerous "potentials" who tend to be annoying due to the lack of time to properly develop their characters. The "big bad" has huge potential but is introduced very early and loses momentum when we learn that it can't actually do anything by itself. The betrayal of Buffy towards the end makes little sense and the show ends leaving a bit of a sour taste in the mouth since Giles and Buffy never reconcile and Xander (the show's "everyman" and, in a similar way to Samwise Gamgee, a true hero of the piece) gets permanently injured. IIRC Anya is the only main character to die and she's very disposable by this point so it comes across as "well someone has to die, might as well be her".
Still, I think the show works really well as a whole across the 7 series and they all compliment each other nicely - obviously the "worst" series are still great, just not up to scratch with Buffy at its best. The progression of the characters is done so well that all of the minor gripes aren't important in the grand scheme of things. I actually like the depressing nature of series 6 although it is definitely hard to watch at times (especially if you've followed the characters from series 1) and I think the writers could've sprinkled in a few more positive elements. Looking back, it seems very brave for them to go in that direction since it could've easily alienated a lot of viewers. In a way series 7 seems almost light-hearted in comparison because at least most of the negativity is aimed at the baddies.
Three geeks in the basement was not an appropriate adversary compared to the master, angelus, Adam and glory.
Just came off as boring and wallowing and not the cheery funny buffy we were used to
I'd agree but I can understand why they did it. They needed a vehicle for Willow to turn evil and they wanted the characters' natural life struggles to be a big focus of the season.
Don't know if this has been covered but does anyone think it was odd that none of the characters ever wore any sort of protective armor when fighting. I mean all Angel and Spike would need is a piece of strong metal covering their sternum so that a wooden stake couldn't pierce their heart
A little off topic, but I started watching Dexter a few weeks ago, and Julie Benz (Darla) was a main character. I have just finished S4. So fantastic. And for those who want to still watch it, I will put it in spoilers.
The character played by Julie, Rita, being killed at the end of S4. So odd seeing Julie playing a "non vampire". Her death though was just shocking! Why must she die everywhere???
I know what you mean. She is also in Supernatural
where she has a terminal illness
only in one episode though. She is a great actress.
I also love the fact a lot of Buffy/Angel actresses/actors have been in Supernatural
Amber Benson - as a vampire
Mercedes McNab - as a vampire
Charisma Carpenter and James Marsters - in the same episode as a married couple and I think they witches/warlocks too (been a while since I've seen that episode)
Amy Acker - Plays a mum who's family get killed by a ghost
Felicia Day (one of the potentials) - recurring geeky character
Julie Benz - Someone Dean has affection for
Comments
No, I didn't
You'd think the name would have had enough diminutives (Beth, Bess, Liz, Lizzy...)!
She's one of the leads in Defiance on the UK SyFy Channel too.
(this is something I initially learned in a Vlogbrothers)
The origins are believed to come from babies pronouncing Elizabeth as Elizabuff.
The Queen Mother was called Buffy when she was young.
- I don't usually like episodes that open with a fast paced conversation because I almost always miss out exposition. This episode was no exception. I gather they're going to get a head to stop a war of something...
- That being said, Spike playing on his Game Boy was good. I also like how he's now the go to guy for everything.
- I'm 98% confident that Buffy won't be in this episode; there wasn't a picture of her on the episode menu!
- 'Ciao.'
- The knowledge that Angel has been keeping tabs on Buffy reminds me of his early season 1 days. We've come full circle!
- It also takes me back when he used to randomly creep up on Lilah. Fun times...
- Huh. I thought the reveal that Fred's parents were back - not that Buffy and the Immortal had started to data - would take us into the commercial break.
- It's a clever idea to make Angels the focus of a comedy episode since it's uncharted territory more or less but, considering that this is likely to be his last time on the show, part of me wishes they'd use him n a more dramatic capacity instead.
- 'Son of a bitch.'
- WTF Illyria. (I also wonder if Wesley might be hallucinating not only this but also Fred's parents arrival. Whatever happens it can't end well.)
- Yup. After that little scene in the club, Buffy's definitely not going to be in this episode now.
- The chase scene involving Spangel on the moped is one of the most surreal sequences that this show has ever done. I think I liked it?
- I love that Spike got nicked for tax evasion regardless.
- I WANT TO SEE MORE OF THE ROME OFFICE OF WOLFRAM AND HART!
- I quite like the CEO of W&H Rome but I think I would have loved Italian Angel quite a bit more. The line about Italian Wesley also taking a nap was so random that I couldn't help but laugh.
- Phew! I was terrified for some reason that when Ilyria hugged Fred's parents she would revert back to he natural self.
- On the topic of that, Amy Acker continues to astound me more by the day. Her transitions between 'Fred' and Illyria were absolutely amazing.
- It seemed a little redundant to get rid of Spike's iconic (?) jacket only to give him a new one five minutes later. Angel's new get up made me smile though!
- Wow. They really didn't use Darla, Drusilla and Andrew much in this episode, did they? I'm actually bitterly disappointed about that with maybe the exception of Andrew since obviously he came back earlier on. I mean this is the final season. Play to your strengths!
- To conclude, this episode was OK I guess but I think it would have worked a lot better earlier on in the season. My main gripe was Angel's behaviour feels really all over the place at the moment. Like, how did we go from him essentially consigning a unborn baby to death to larking about in Rome with Spike? In fairness though, their dynamic will never stop being entertaining to me and I'm glad that we got one last chance for fun between the two. The only other thing I want to mention is how jarring the tonal differences between the two stories were. I guess they complimented each other well enough in the end with the theme of closure but the Rome plot felt a bit all over the place to tell you the truth. The humour also felt a bit too zany in spots and this wasn't exactly helped by the musical score. Ultimately, I liked this one but I didn't love it.
Power Play
- And now Angel's back to being all dark and brooding again. I don't suppose he's putting it on?
- I was going to query why Angel didn't lose his soul after having sex with Nina but thinking back they didn't part ways because of the actual act. He lost it later on when he was basking in the glow of the woman he loved. Poor Nina.
- I don't know why but I feel this is shaping up to be the first of a two part episode. I hope it is - especially since the battle with the Senior Partners is presumably nigh.
- Ah I think I'm now starting to get a sense of just why the ending's so controversial. Not only is Angel shaping up to be the Big Bad but also - in my humble opinion - in sort of seems to have come out of nowhere. I mean just last episode he was gallivanting in Rome with Spike and now he's effectively alienating and double crossing all of his friends. Spoilers for Dollhouse
- Why is Lindsey in cuffs all of a sudden? Did he kill Eve? I'm struggling to think of any prior offences. Also, why don't the Senior Partners just put him straight back in that holding dimension? What Illyria did was incredibly clever and all but surely they must have noticed her ruse by now?
- Ugh. I really don't like the implication that Angel killed Fred. It doesn't make much sense and I sincerely hope that he's faking.
- I also was half expecting him to kill Nina as well. She got off lucky I suppose.
- Illyria playing video games was a beautiful thing. The keeper of the Well (I forget his name) also reminds me of Groo a little bit.
- Angel's induction into the Circle of the Black Thorn was so incredibly rushed that it spoiled what could have been an otherwise enjoyable twist. It reminds me a little of the episode Hero in season 1 when he went undercover into that demon hating gang.
- For some reason the politician referencing 2008 like it was in the future also freaked me out. That's so long ago now.
- I don't have much of a problem with Angel double crossing the Circle of the Black Thorn but he only just joined them for crying out loud. Isn't he going to spend time winning their trust? Apparently not! (I also suppose he doesn't need to, really).
- In spite of that, I really liked that ending. I feel it set up the finale well and really raised the stakes. I also imagine Marcus knows what he's up to judging by his look at the end?
- To conclude, this episode had some really fantastic ideas (and I mean that truly from the bottom of my heart) but... ugh. To be perfectly blunt the pacing sucked. Now don't get me wrong I'm a fan of the brisker pace but I really do think this arc would have been better suited to lasting a couple of episodes. It also doesn't help that, as mentioned before, I think Angel's characterisation has been somewhat over the place. Then again some of my criticisms might seem a little unfair because the show was cancelled before they had a chance to finish things properly?
- Going off the episode menu for Not Fade Away, the finale looks to be incredibly epic. I mean a fight in the rain - what's not to love about that?
Not Fade Away
- I can't wait to watch this episode. Genuinely, I don't think I've been more hyped for a finale of anything even if I was a little too vocal about some of my problems with the preceding installment.
- Which reminds me: I didn't address the implication that Angelus and Spike once had a little bit of a thing! Aw, I bet they love each other really. As a side note, the episode boasted a good performance from David Boreanaz as well.
- Connor's back? I guess he did remember. I also thought that Faith might be in this episode thereby setting up the post-series comic.
- Joss Whedon didn't direct this episode, the series final? Huh. I thought that was more or less the norm across his shows.
- Well there goes the Shansu! I mean I can understand Angel's motivations but that's still a little bit bit of a blow – especially since it would have wrapped up the series in a pretty little bow. Ah well. Who wants to be a human anyway? For the record, my prediction now is that whatever happens come the final scene he'll wind up alone.
- 'I want you Lindsey.'
- Wait what if Angel really has been corrupted by the Circle of the Black Thorn and is going to wind up betraying all of his friends in the end?
- Anne would have made a good member of Angel Investigations, don't you think? I say Angel Investigations because I don't think she would have signed up for Wolfram and Hart in an instant.
- Hey isn't that Spike's poem from Fool for Love? The use of the word effulgent tipped me off. (:D)
- Seriously though, I love this finale. I'm really impressed how no-one's actions feel out of character. Like, I can totally believe that this is what the gang would do on their final day.
- Since Eve's future is meant to be crappy, I'm guessing that Lindsey is going to die in this episode? Y'know I'm seriously starting to think that Angel might betray everyone!
- Gunn's not wrong about the day going by quickly. I thought they'd have spent some more time on each of those scenes but that's more of a trivial complaint, really.
- Even if Harmony's betrayal of Angel does feel like a thing she would actually do, I sincerely hope that it's all been a trick and this is just her idea of keeping Hamilton busy.
- Speaking of whom, I like his character. Well, the bits and pieces of it we've seen over these past couple of episodes. The writers haven't exactly given him that much to do.
- We finally get to see Spike interact a baby! I remember requesting that when these reviews first started because I thought it'd be funny and it's nice that it happened – and in the very last episode no less!
- Gunn better not die, surrounded by vampires.
- Since there's only something like ten minutes left, I'm going to say either the result is left ambiguous or that Angel does in fact betray his friends in the end?
- Why the f**k did Lorne kill Lindsey? I know Angel didn't especially trust him but the circumstances behind it really annoyed me. Good death scene though and performance from Christian Kane.
- Ugh... I swear Angel's like the biggest dick at the moment (and, no, that's not intended to be a compliment!)
- I've known Wesley was going to die for a long time now (since about mid season 2, thanks to the title of a YouTube video) but still way to stick the knife in further with yet another death messrs Whedon and Bell!
- His death scene was wonderful though. It's nice that he got the chance to say goodbye to Fred, and I found Illyria's reaction to be really interesting too.
- WTF Illyria! Someone's been taking lessons in killing from Connor.
- That was a pretty novel way to get rid of Hamilton I must admit.
- URGH I want to see that final battle so bad. Somewhat ironically, It could have been like a watered down version of Minas Tirith in the Lord of the Rings.
- <cue obligatory joke about how even with all the added demons involved LA doesn't look any different>
- I do feel bad for the poor people however. If only there had been some discrete way to consult them first.
- I don't know why but I found Illyria's revelation that Wesley had died to be more upsetting than the actual thing. I guess because I didn't know it was coming and it was just so blunt.
- 'Personally, I kind of want to slay the dragon. Let's get to work.'
- Um... is that the ending? That's a little abrupt. Still, it beats a fade to black I suppose!
- In retrospect though, I really enjoyed the conclusion we got. It fits in nicely with the theme of the show about how the fight will never be over and at least we received some sort of clarification about where it's heading. Besides, it'd be a little too morbid if every single character were seen to die.
- And this is just a random thought but wouldn't Angel and the rest of the gang now survive after death in a certain respect because of the contract he signed? I assume the Senior Partners could maybe put a stop to that though or just torture them all instead?
- To conclude, I LOVED this episode. I think it might even be my favourite so far seeing as how it was everything I wanted and more. In the public interest, I liked it a lot more than I did Chosen. I'm not quite sure when I'll get about to reading the comics – if at all – so for now this'll be my final proper exposure to new material from the Buffyverse. That's sad because I've enjoyed this a lot and I'm really going to miss seeing what everyone says and does next. The same is true of this thread as well – this really has been so much fun. I've been thinking for a little while now what I should put for a closing off comment and I think I finally figured it out. If anyone bothers to watch to end of the credits you'll know there's sometimes a quote from Angel that appears. I say sometimes because they only used it throughout season 2 and season 3 but just this once I'm bringing it back. Here goes: thank you. Thank you very much.
I've also not read any of the comics, mainly because I like to leave this as a conclusion. It fits with the overall theme of Angel - fighting not for redemption, but because they can. Even if it means their deaths.
Wesley's death got to me too. The bit where Illyria lied to him was beautiful, and we got one last glimpse of Fred.
I'm a big fan of the comics, except for the Angel ones set after the TV show. The artwork was so bad it made them unreadable for me. The artist seemed to have no understanding of how to do basic layouts. Just awful.
When they re-launched Angel's title as 'Angel & Faith' it picked up immensely and is now one of my favourite reads each month.
Picking up on a couple earlier points in the thread; Buffy is also mentioned in an episode of Farscape. And, I also prefer AA as Illyria.
In the interest of winter clearing, I also thought I might as well tie up some loose odds and ends before singing off with a proper Angel retrospective at some point tomorrow. To be honest, I don't really know why I've been sitting on some of these for so long...
- Angel will reappear in this season. Yep. He appeared towards the end of End of Days and buggered off part way into Chosen.
- Spike with a soul will be awkward and polite. I think it'd be sweet if he resumed writing his poetry. Nope. I don't think he was that different actually.
- On that note, I think Jonathan and Andrew will come back and encounter Spike early on in the season. They both looked like they were in some kind of exotic country ...? They did come back but didn't meet Spike in a foreign country and nor did they early on in the season.
- Willow will die this season. Thankfully, no.
- Xander's parents and D'Hoffryn will come back this season. Xander's parents returned but D'Horrfyn did not. Wait...
- I know there is a Dragon Ball Z reference this season which consists of two characters arguing who is stronger - Goku or Vegeta. Since James Marsters is a massive fan of the show and Xander likes his comics, I'm going to assume that Spike and Xander are the ones who make it. No! In fairness though ages ago someone did tell me (I'm sure) that's what the reference was. Bah!
- We will meet the First Watcher and vampire this season. I guess you could say we met the First Watchers but we did not meet the original vampire (I'm assuming the Turok Han doesn't count.)
- The final scene will suggest that no matter what happens life goes on. To this end then, the final scene will be Buffy going to fight vampires. Wrong!
- The Hellmouth will be opened once more. Right!
- Willow will turn evil again this season but will not be the Big Bad. The Big Bad will be something new. Nope. The First came back to wreak havoc instead.
- We will FINALLY see Buffy's dad in the real world again. I wish (and so does Buffy too probably. Bless her heart.)
Score: 5/19
Conversations with Dead People
Chosen
Never Leave Me
Selfless
Sleeper
Same Time, Same Place
Touched
Dirty Girls
Him
First Date
Storyteller
Empty Places
Showtime
Lessons
Beneath You
End of Days
Help
Potential
Get it Done
The Killer in Me
Bring on the Night
1: Once More with Feeling
2: The Gift
3: The Body
4: Becoming (Part 2)
5: Passion
6: Restless
7: Hush
8: Conversations with Dead People
9: Spiral
10: Chosen
11: Never Leave Me
12: Villains
13: Selfless
14: Two to Go
15: Sleeper
16: Lie to Me
17: The Zeppo
18: Amends
19: Consequences
20: Same Time, Same Place
21: Doppelgangland
22: Homecoming
23: Triangle
24: Seeing Red
25: Lovers Walk
119: Where the Wild Things Are
120: Potential
121: Wrecked
122: Listening to Fear
123: Doomed
124: The Dark Age
125: Wild at Heart
126: Go Fish
127: Family
128: Beer Bad
129: I Robot... You, Jane
130: As You Were
131: Never Kill a Boy on the First Date
132: New Moon Rising
133: Dead Things
134: Out of My Mind
135: The I in Team
136: Doublemeat Palace
137: Dead Man's Party
138: Inca Mummy Girl
139: Get it Done
140: The Killer in Me
141: Buffy vs Dracula
142: Older and Far Away
143: Reptile Boy
144: Bring on the Night
- Unlikely but I think this season will be less arc heavy than Seasons 3 and 4. We'll see the show get back to being quite episodic instead, what with everyone WORKING FOR WOLFRAM AND HART! Yup. I think it's fair to say that the arc was pretty low-key this season.
- I'm sure I've read in this thread that the ending's a little controversial. If so, I imagine that Angel will wind up betraying all of his friends in a major way and maybe he'll kill some of them too? I'm thinking at the moment Fred, Lorne and Gunn are possibly for it – these being the original characters introduced on the show? It would explain why the comic series is entitled 'After the Fall'. Well Fred died but fortunately she wasn't offed by Angel even though he did try to convince us otherwise. I competely forgot about that prediction, actually...
- I also think there's a good chance that we'll see Angelus again out of a flashback though not for a sustained period of time like in Angel Season 4 and Buffy Season 2. No. That might have been a bit too predicable...
- Charisma Carpenter will have a special guest appearance in the finale in a cameo sequence. Cordelia did come back but not in the finale and for more than a cameo.
- Darla, Lindsey, Gwen, Connor and Holland will reappear in this season. Darla, Lindsey and Connor returned.
- I can't remember her name but the 'human super computer' in Wolfram and Hart's archiving will come back as well. No. She was probably killed by The Beast wasn't she?
- This is less of a prediction and more of a hope: the Senior Partners need to be stopped. Who knows?
- Angel will get a new love interest this season. NINA!
- We will see the Powers that Be and the Senior Partners this season. Nope.
- There in an episode called A Hole in the World and it's meant to be sad. A main character will die in this episode. Freddykins no!
- Finally, Angel will be unpopular around the office. I'm thinking of a boss who tries too hard to be chummy with colleagues (and also because of his Barry Manilow love.) Well, this is a bit of a stupid prediction since obviously everyone would be trying to kill him due to his attempts to reform the company but he wasn't really teased in the way I expected so no points.
Score: 7/22
Not Fade Away
Underneath
Smile Time
A Hole in the World
Damage
Lineage
Conviction
Shells
Destiny
You're Welcome
Unleashed
Life of the Party
Hell Bound
Origin
Power Play
The Girl in Question
Why We Fight
Just Rewards
Soul Purpose
Time Bomb
Harm's Way
The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco
1: Not Fade Away
2: Peace Out
3: Reunion -
4: I Will Remember You
5: Spin The Bottle
6: Awakening
7: Eternity
8: Sanctuary
9: Dear Boy
10: Are You Now or Have You Ever Been
11: Reprise
12: Soulless
13: Underneath
14: Smile Time
15: Lullaby
16: Tomorrow
17: Shiny Happy People
18: The Magic Bullet
19: A Hole in the World
20: Players
21: To Shansu in LA
22: Blind Date
23: The Price
24: Damage
25: Lineage
86: Sacrifice
87: Long Day's Journey
88: Forgiving
89: Benediction
90: Double or Nothing
91: Quickening
92: Offspring
93: Harm's Way
94: The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco
95: She
96: Untouched
97: I Fall to Pieces
98: Inside Out
99: Rm w/a Vu
100: Sense and Sensitivity
101: The Ring
102: Through the Looking Glass
103: The Shroud of Rahmon
104: A New World
105: Provider
106: Supersymmetry
107: The Thin Dead Line
108: War Zone
109: Happy Anniversary
1110: The Prodigal
Just a quick observation but in looking back at the list I compiled I don't think there's a fat out bad one in either show. In both Angel and Buffy, there was always at least one thing per episode I seemed to enjoy. Personally, I found that to be more true of Angel than I did do of Buffy if only because there wasn't one especially hated in the same manner as the bottom 2 or 3 on the Buffy chart.
I'm not entirely sure when I'll get around to doing a rewatch but certainly some of the earlier episodes deserve a second watch sometime in the immediate future.
Well, it's been fun...
For instance, I'm a big Star Trek fan. I grew up with TNG and DS9 and love them. But both shows have some really bad episodes. I love Doctor Who, but by god there are some episodes that make me cringe!
Buffy and Angel have some episodes that aren't my favourites, but that is more compared to the rest of the output of the shows. There aren't really any I find unwatchable though and nothing I skip on a re-watch.
1.Hush
2.Passion
3.Becoming
4.The Gift
5.Spiral
6.Innocence
7.Something Blue
8.Fool for Love
9.Primeval
10.I Only Have Eyes for You
My Angel Top 10 is
1.Apocalipse Nowish
2.Epiphany
3.Reprise
4.Reunion
5.Peace Out
6.Five by Five
7.The Prodigal
8.Not Fade Away
9.Forgiving
10.Orpheus
Worst episode ever (of both series): The Girl in Question
Don't forget to watch Dr Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.
The recent HD remasters shown on Pivot (a US channel) are all 16:9 but series 1 was mostly cropped and series 2 was half-and-half. They've just started series 3 and so far they've mostly "opened out the sides" just like for the original 16:9 versions of series 4-7 (as found on PAL DVDs).
Joss Whedon says the show was framed for 4:3, which is true, but we know for a fact that the full 16:9 area is usable for most shots (there's maybe one 16:9 framing issue per episode in series 4 and fewer beyond that). Whedon also didn't direct most episodes so whether a particular episode was only framed for 4:3 is up for debate. I imainge most episodes were mainly framed for 4:3 but considering that the full 16:9 frame is usable most of the time implies that they were concious of 16:9 protection, even if it was a low priority.
If you're a purist I suppose 4:3 is the preferred format. Personally, I prefer the 16:9 versions of most episodes, although I'd obviously like all of the errors to be fixed. It seems as if Fox is adamant on using 16:9 for these remasters and it'd be better if Whedon was asked to oversee the remastering process because so far the results are poor.
Hopefully there'll be both a 4:3 and 16:9 release (maybe one on BD and the other via a download) so everyone can be happy. If an HD remaster was done properly then I'd take it, no matter which aspect ratio they went with.
Teacher's Pet: Really didn't like this one second time round. The whole thing was a little too stupid and I didn't like the subplot with the vampire either.
Prophecy Girl: Loved this one. I still maintain that the battle with the Master was rushed and the ending was a little abrupt but other than that I have very little complaints. SMG was a knockout during the scene where she declared that she didn't want to die.
Surprise: I got this one confused with Innocence so when I said earlier on I really enjoyed it just so you know I was a tad confused. That's not to say it's a bad episode per say but rather I found it a little bit rushed. You might even say I found it disjointed. I also could have sworn Angel and Buffy went ice skating in this one but I must be confusing with Bad Eggs now too as I initially watched that and this one back to back. Random but it was a good performance from Robia LaMorte as well. Other than that, Angel saying he was going to give Buffy a birthday surprise was so not subtle.
Innocence: This was a really good episode though I don't know if I rate it as highly as others. There's no particular reason for that. (When did they start calling him Angelus though? Season 3?)
Faith, Hope and Trick: I don't remember the episode being this good. The plot in itself was pretty straightforward but there were lots of fantastic lines of dialogue. I remembered Giles's fondness for kayaks but I totally forgot it 'originated' here.
Homecoming: Didn't enjoy this episode as much on a rewatch; I remember it being funnier first time round. That aside, Giles joking Buffy was in danger whilst at the prom still made me laugh.
Helpless: This was great (though I was tired when I watched it so I sort of found it a little bit boring). I thought Kralik and the ending battle was very suspenseful.
The Zeppo: I still really liked this one though as with Homecoming I didn't laugh as much on repeat viewing.
Once More, with Feeling: This is still my favourite episode. The lyrics for all the songs are especially clever - though my favourites are still Walk Through the Fire and Rest in Peace. Really like Going through the Motions and Where Do We Go From Here as well.
Reunion: This episode lost a lot of gusto and punch on rewatch though I think it's the same with any thriller really. I also found it a bit stoppy starty in regards to the stuff with Darla and Dru.
Reprise: This might well be my favourite episode of the series now that I've seen it a second time. The dialogue and story was really fantastic.
Epiphany: More or less the same as above though it was a little jarring - as with the rest of the season 2 episodes - to revisit the arc out of context when it was in full swing. Like, I totally forgot Wesley was in a wheelchair!
Apocalypse Nowish: Very strong episode. I don't think I'd place it in my personal top ten but I'd certainly rank it as one of the finest hours in the show. It did bug me remembering very little about what the Beast was up to though!
Soulless: The episode where Angelus tears his friends apart in spectacular style was one I rewatched on Christmas Day.
I also caught the second half of a movie called EuroTrip on BBC 1 this morning after noticing that Michelle Trachtenberg was in it. It was certainly a contender for one of the strangest films I've watched in my life though it was alright. WTH was Vinnie Jones cameo at the end all about though? (A quick Google search informs me that he appeared earlier on. Ah makes slightly more sense now.)
Spoilers below!
I'd find it difficult rating individual episodes without rewatching because I honestly can't remember what happens in most of them. I prefer to treating the show in its entirety, or at least on a series-by-series basis, since the character arcs and development are so important and singling out episodes in that regard can be tough. The general consensus is that series 2, 3, and 5 are the best. Series 2 has the epic Angel turn and subsequent fall-out; series 3 has probably the best "big bad", Faith, and is very consistent; series 5 has a great "big bad" and finale, a great mystery in Dawn, some awesome stand-alone episodes, and probably the best cast of all the series (Tara and Spike get more prominent, Dawn is added to hugely shake things up, Giles is still there, and Riley buggers off).
Here's a quick run down of the main reasons why the other series often appear lower in people's "best to worst Buffy series" lists (most of which I agree with or understand):
- Series 1 is all over the place in terms of quality and is very "monster of the week"ish. It's also short and of course everyone involved is still finding their feet, which makes it slightly odd to watch after seeing the other series.
- Series 4 has a lot of great episodes (probably the most out of all the series actually) but the arc is pretty weak. It has the worst "big bad" in Adam, several main characters left (Oz, Angel, Cordelia), plus this is the only series for which the Scooby Gang has no headquarters so it feels a bit scattered. Riley is prominent and generally "just there" - he's kinda boring, although maybe that was to show that Buffy was never going to have a normal life. Tara isn't yet a main character and still very unsure of herself, and the Initiative storyline just peters out into nothing after having a few promising moments. Shame, really, because this series had a lot of potential and it ended up as "good but not great".
- Series 6 is dark and depressing. There's no real "big bad", although there are three prominent antagonists: Willow, The Trio, and "life". It's a bit harder to root for the characters in this series: Buffy is distant and annoying, Spike is morally questionable, Giles leaves the group high and dry for dubious reasons (mainly cos Anthony Stewart Head wanted to leave), Xander leaves Anya for no real reason other than to cause more rifts within the group, Anya and Spike hook up which hurts Xander and Buffy, Willow becomes a murderer....the only protagonist who remained "pure" in this series is Tara and she gets killed off for her troubles. I suppose there's also Dawn but I can't remember much of what she did in series 6.
- Series 7 is basically a cluster****. It feels a bit like a fanfic because they tried to cram in as many former characters/actors as possible, as well as adding in numerous "potentials" who tend to be annoying due to the lack of time to properly develop their characters. The "big bad" has huge potential but is introduced very early and loses momentum when we learn that it can't actually do anything by itself. The betrayal of Buffy towards the end makes little sense and the show ends leaving a bit of a sour taste in the mouth since Giles and Buffy never reconcile and Xander (the show's "everyman" and, in a similar way to Samwise Gamgee, a true hero of the piece) gets permanently injured. IIRC Anya is the only main character to die and she's very disposable by this point so it comes across as "well someone has to die, might as well be her".
Still, I think the show works really well as a whole across the 7 series and they all compliment each other nicely - obviously the "worst" series are still great, just not up to scratch with Buffy at its best. The progression of the characters is done so well that all of the minor gripes aren't important in the grand scheme of things. I actually like the depressing nature of series 6 although it is definitely hard to watch at times (especially if you've followed the characters from series 1) and I think the writers could've sprinkled in a few more positive elements. Looking back, it seems very brave for them to go in that direction since it could've easily alienated a lot of viewers. In a way series 7 seems almost light-hearted in comparison because at least most of the negativity is aimed at the baddies.
Pretty sure I already covered why some people don't like it.
More of a "this is a bit uncomfortable to watch" than "this is badly written/directed/acted/etc.".
Three geeks in the basement was not an appropriate adversary compared to the master, angelus, Adam and glory.
Just came off as boring and wallowing and not the cheery funny buffy we were used to
I'd agree but I can understand why they did it. They needed a vehicle for Willow to turn evil and they wanted the characters' natural life struggles to be a big focus of the season.
I know what you mean. She is also in Supernatural
I also love the fact a lot of Buffy/Angel actresses/actors have been in Supernatural
Amber Benson - as a vampire
Mercedes McNab - as a vampire
Charisma Carpenter and James Marsters - in the same episode as a married couple and I think they witches/warlocks too (been a while since I've seen that episode)
Amy Acker - Plays a mum who's family get killed by a ghost
Felicia Day (one of the potentials) - recurring geeky character
Julie Benz - Someone Dean has affection for