Yes, but all I see here is people failing to understand that were animals able to think and act like us, they'd make the same mistakes. So the only way we can be cute harmless animals is for us to have lobotomies.
Sure, we could manage the planet better but slagging off your own species isn't going to do it.
In parts of the world where there is social pressure to have male offspring, the more affluent can afford to have a scan and abort any female foetus. Sadly, amongst the less well-off (and there tend to be a lot in those parts of the world), it's not uncommon for female babies to be abandoned.
Sadly that's nature. It's primarily done by animals for survival.
I would estimate in the past 17 years my vegetarianism has saved the lives of 15,000 animals.
If more people did it that's a lot of animals saved.
It's about doing what we can to reduce animal suffering.
If more people were vegan you could argue that animals would suffer more. We've domesticated cattle to the degree that they would find it very tough to survive in the wild. Instead farmers feed them, keep them warm, call out the vet when they get sick - a much more comfortable life than scavagening in the wild... and if a cow is going to be slaughtered, stunning it before hand means it doesn't feel a thing.
Sadly that's nature. It's primarily done by animals for survival.
I would estimate in the past 17 years my vegetarianism has saved the lives of 15,000 animals.
If more people did it that's a lot of animals saved.
It's about doing what we can to reduce animal suffering.
That's nice. My point is that humans are animals, we're doing what we can to survive, it's just that our biggest predator is ourselves. I'm arguing against the mindset that sets us apart from animals as if we can separate intelligence from evolution.
From that section: "Infanticide has been, and still is practiced by some human cultures, groups, or individuals"
How does that strengthen your claim that ...
In parts of the world where there is social pressure to have male offspring, the more affluent can afford to have a scan and abort any female foetus. Sadly, amongst the less well-off (and there tend to be a lot in those parts of the world), it's not uncommon for female babies to be abandoned.
Which bit of "humans tend to avoid this" in any way conflicts with the content of that section?
That's nice. My point is that humans are animals, we're doing what we can to survive, it's just that our biggest predator is ourselves. I'm arguing against the mindset that sets us apart from animals as if we can separate intelligence from evolution.
It's funny I was actually talking to my mum earlier and we were talking about the 1st world war.
The 2nd world war is different-Hitler was evil and we had no choice but the 1st world war was the most stupid pointless war ever and led to the loss of lord knows how many lives.
I think humans are self destructive hence all the stupid wars killing for no reason rather than survival.
Stunning doesn't always work and animals often get sent down the slaughterline to have their throats slit fully conscious.
Animal Rights Groups undercover have filmed this.
Also in this kind of job there is likely to be some sickos abusing the animals for the heck of it.
That's been filmed too by PETA.
Well in that case they're breaking the law and the slaughter house would get shut down. They do inspect these things to ensure that procedures are properly followed - evidence from biased sources like PETA isn't reliable.
Yes, there might be the odd cock up which results in an unclean death but that's nothing compared to the suffering that pigs or cows would endure if the entire population stopped eating meat and they were turfed out of farms to fend for themselves. The first winter would see their population decimated.
Stunning doesn't always work and animals often get sent down the slaughterline to have their throats slit fully conscious.
Animal Rights Groups undercover have filmed this.
Also in this kind of job there is likely to be some sickos abusing the animals for the heck of it.
That's been filmed too by PETA.
Ah yes, Peta. That wonderful animal rights group who have sponsored and supported terrorists, and killed many, many animals in their care because they cannot "afford" to look after them?. That Peta you mean?.
I think humans are self destructive hence all the stupid wars killing for no reason rather than survival.
Those wars are stupid, but they're hard to avoid. Intelligence is a blessing and a curse. Anyone can be a critic, it's easy to feel better about yourself by being critical of others, the harder thing to do is to realise most people are essentially the same, and that to succeed as a species we have to make everyone a better person.
Well in that case they're breaking the law and the slaughter house would get shut down. They do inspect these things to ensure that procedures are properly followed - evidence from biased sources like PETA isn't reliable.
Yes, there might be the odd cock up which results in an unclean death but that's nothing compared to the suffering that pigs or cows would endure if the entire population stopped eating meat and they were turfed out of farms to fend for themselves. The first winter would see their population decimated.
If you're a farmer it could be said you're biased.
I do think we are the most important species on the planet but I also think that we should have respect for other organisms. By refusing to have that respect we lose some of what makes us so good.
Comments
There was a time most straight people hated gay people.
There was a time most white people supported the slave trade of black people.
Animal Liberation will happen. It will just take time.
Animals are sentient beings capable of feeling joy, pain, sadness, fear, love, just like human beings.
They deserve to be protected and respected.
Speciesism is primarily a superiority complex.
Are adults superior to children and if so does that mean we can abuse children?
I don't think they are but superiority complexes are linked to devaluation of human and animal lives.
Natural environment changes could reduce places for animals to live. Not just humans.
A bit harsh...
Opening the link and scrolling down the the section entitled "Humans and infanticide" tends to negate your argument.
How are prey going to be liberated if they have non-human predators? Are the guinea pigs going on strike?
No, it shows you haven't read the section or my argument carefully enough. That section strengthens my argument.
Read this back tomorrow morning and let me know how intelligent you think it made you sound.
Yes, but all I see here is people failing to understand that were animals able to think and act like us, they'd make the same mistakes. So the only way we can be cute harmless animals is for us to have lobotomies.
Sure, we could manage the planet better but slagging off your own species isn't going to do it.
So I use one emotive word and it's OK for you to paint a soppy picture of nature?
Sadly that's nature. It's primarily done by animals for survival.
I would estimate in the past 17 years my vegetarianism has saved the lives of 15,000 animals.
If more people did it that's a lot of animals saved.
It's about doing what we can to reduce animal suffering.
From that section: "Infanticide has been, and still is practiced by some human cultures, groups, or individuals"
How does that strengthen your claim that ...
In parts of the world where there is social pressure to have male offspring, the more affluent can afford to have a scan and abort any female foetus. Sadly, amongst the less well-off (and there tend to be a lot in those parts of the world), it's not uncommon for female babies to be abandoned.
If more people were vegan you could argue that animals would suffer more. We've domesticated cattle to the degree that they would find it very tough to survive in the wild. Instead farmers feed them, keep them warm, call out the vet when they get sick - a much more comfortable life than scavagening in the wild... and if a cow is going to be slaughtered, stunning it before hand means it doesn't feel a thing.
That's nice. My point is that humans are animals, we're doing what we can to survive, it's just that our biggest predator is ourselves. I'm arguing against the mindset that sets us apart from animals as if we can separate intelligence from evolution.
Animal Rights Groups undercover have filmed this.
Also in this kind of job there is likely to be some sickos abusing the animals for the heck of it.
That's been filmed too by PETA.
Which bit of "humans tend to avoid this" in any way conflicts with the content of that section?
It's funny I was actually talking to my mum earlier and we were talking about the 1st world war.
The 2nd world war is different-Hitler was evil and we had no choice but the 1st world war was the most stupid pointless war ever and led to the loss of lord knows how many lives.
I think humans are self destructive hence all the stupid wars killing for no reason rather than survival.
17 years x 365 (ignoring leap years) = 6205 days
15,000 animals? How many animals were you eating each day? :eek:
Well in that case they're breaking the law and the slaughter house would get shut down. They do inspect these things to ensure that procedures are properly followed - evidence from biased sources like PETA isn't reliable.
Yes, there might be the odd cock up which results in an unclean death but that's nothing compared to the suffering that pigs or cows would endure if the entire population stopped eating meat and they were turfed out of farms to fend for themselves. The first winter would see their population decimated.
Ah ... they tend to avoid it ... but some still do it ... as is the case with some animals!
Okay!
Ah yes, Peta. That wonderful animal rights group who have sponsored and supported terrorists, and killed many, many animals in their care because they cannot "afford" to look after them?. That Peta you mean?.
They're not better than us.
And they don't have the brain power either.
And we do.
I would save a human over any animal.
So, guilty as charged.
Those wars are stupid, but they're hard to avoid. Intelligence is a blessing and a curse. Anyone can be a critic, it's easy to feel better about yourself by being critical of others, the harder thing to do is to realise most people are essentially the same, and that to succeed as a species we have to make everyone a better person.
If you're a farmer it could be said you're biased.
You have a financial interest in the meat trade.
I do think we are the most important species on the planet but I also think that we should have respect for other organisms. By refusing to have that respect we lose some of what makes us so good.