But the absence of bodies might have all manner of repercussions, surely?
QUOTE]
IIRC, they substituted dead bodies for the passengers. To all intents and purposes, no effect on the timeline. Except one day when the protagonist, an air accident investigator, discovers something strange in the wreckage of one crash. Something accidentally left behind by the time travellers.
what if everything is a fixed point, the doctor was always destined to go where he does changing or not changing everything that he does and so by living his life he's just following the pre determined course of events and everything that happens to him happens as was always supposed to
what if everything is a fixed point, the doctor was always destined to go where he does changing or not changing everything that he does and so by living his life he's just following the pre determined course of events and everything that happens to him happens as was always supposed to
The Doctor lies, so it has been told but does he lie?
what if everything is a fixed point, the doctor was always destined to go where he does changing or not changing everything that he does and so by living his life he's just following the pre determined course of events and everything that happens to him happens as was always supposed to
That would be crazy as everyone's lives would be predefined somehow and down to the last letter!
There would be no causality as people would just say 'oh I cant help what I do as its going to happen anyway!'
I do sometimes wonder how some of the futures seen in classic Who fit into new Who chronology. For instance, didn't the Time Lords move the earth to the other side of the universe? If so, how was it back in place for Rose's first visit to the future?
I'm sure everything can be explained, but I'm sure some of it would need a lot of explaining.
if everything was pre determined just as if everything is pre determined in real life then people would still care because they wouldn't know or believe it, it would just mean anything they did wouldn't cause any problems with timelines or create universe destroying paradoxes
if everything was pre determined just as if everything is pre determined in real life then people would still care because they wouldn't know or believe it, it would just mean anything they did wouldn't cause any problems with timelines or create universe destroying paradoxes
The implication of logical time travel is that free will is an illusion brought about by the fact that we don't know exactly what is going to happen in the future. That doesn't sit well with many religious types.
And lotrjw is quite right - some people would use it as an excuse for anything bad they did: "Well, it was always going to happen anyway". But don't those people use any sort of excuse anyway?
Knowing too much about the future, especially your own, is generally a bad thing, as the Doctor himself has said. it leads to a boring life and undramatic stories.
But didn't the doctor also say in TGWW knowing the future gives you a chance to change it ?. What is the point of time travel if you can't affect anything?. Time war was suppose to time locked but we find out he didn't actually destroy Galifrey. He just moved it out of sight.Trenzalore was also suppose to be a fixed point. Again it was chanegd. After fighting for 300 years and dying of old age he is given new life and regenrations by the time lords.
But didn't the doctor also say in TGWW knowing the future gives you a chance to change it ?. What is the point of time travel if you can't affect anything?. Time war was suppose to time locked but we find out he didn't actually destroy Galifrey. He just moved it out of sight.Trenzalore was also suppose to be a fixed point. Again it was chanegd. After fighting for 300 years and dying of old age he is given new life and regenrations by the time lords.
In TDotD nothing had changed - the Doctor had always saved Gallifrey, he and we just didn't know it until the events in that story.
In other situations the timeline was changed. That's why Doctor Who's version of "the rules of time travel" is inconsistent - it changes according to the needs of the narrative. Sometimes change is allowed, as in TotD, other times not, as in TFoP and every shade in between.
There is still a point to time travel (especially in the Whoniverse where things can sometimes be changed). If you decide not to get up tomorrow the future will be different than if you did. If that was the day you would have met your future partner it could be important. Twenty years from now, that would be family history, a fixed point in time if you like. But for you, right now, you don't know the outcome of that decision, it's still a decision to be made.
Similarly, if the Doctor decided to stay in his TARDIS and sulk, things would be different than if he took the TARDIS someplace and had an adventure. Even he doesn't know the outcome of every last decision he ever made ahead of time.
Even though your actions right now are are history from the PoV of someone from twenty years from now, you're actions and decisions are important and have to be taken.
I think, generally, a time traveller can change the future but if that change affects what his past self would have done, seen or known then it creates a paradox. It doesn't mean that he can't make that change but it's dangerous. The universe doesn't like paradoxes so it attempts to correct the problem with potentially catastrophic results. Which is why the Doctor makes every effort to avoid such things.
I think a fixed point in time is one which has such a big impact on future events that the scope of the paradox is too huge to even contemplate risking.
Once upon a time the Time Lords used to police the continuum, preventing people from making those sorts of changes and stepping in to fix the timeline if they attempt it.
It's probably why we've seen much more Timey Wimey stuff in New Who. Because, without the Time Lords, nobody has been around to stop things getting out of hand.
Comments
That would be crazy as everyone's lives would be predefined somehow and down to the last letter!
There would be no causality as people would just say 'oh I cant help what I do as its going to happen anyway!'
I'm sure everything can be explained, but I'm sure some of it would need a lot of explaining.
The implication of logical time travel is that free will is an illusion brought about by the fact that we don't know exactly what is going to happen in the future. That doesn't sit well with many religious types.
And lotrjw is quite right - some people would use it as an excuse for anything bad they did: "Well, it was always going to happen anyway". But don't those people use any sort of excuse anyway?
Knowing too much about the future, especially your own, is generally a bad thing, as the Doctor himself has said.
In TDotD nothing had changed - the Doctor had always saved Gallifrey, he and we just didn't know it until the events in that story.
In other situations the timeline was changed. That's why Doctor Who's version of "the rules of time travel" is inconsistent - it changes according to the needs of the narrative. Sometimes change is allowed, as in TotD, other times not, as in TFoP and every shade in between.
There is still a point to time travel (especially in the Whoniverse where things can sometimes be changed). If you decide not to get up tomorrow the future will be different than if you did. If that was the day you would have met your future partner it could be important. Twenty years from now, that would be family history, a fixed point in time if you like. But for you, right now, you don't know the outcome of that decision, it's still a decision to be made.
Similarly, if the Doctor decided to stay in his TARDIS and sulk, things would be different than if he took the TARDIS someplace and had an adventure. Even he doesn't know the outcome of every last decision he ever made ahead of time.
Even though your actions right now are are history from the PoV of someone from twenty years from now, you're actions and decisions are important and have to be taken.
I think a fixed point in time is one which has such a big impact on future events that the scope of the paradox is too huge to even contemplate risking.
Once upon a time the Time Lords used to police the continuum, preventing people from making those sorts of changes and stepping in to fix the timeline if they attempt it.
It's probably why we've seen much more Timey Wimey stuff in New Who. Because, without the Time Lords, nobody has been around to stop things getting out of hand.