To be fair to Simon (ack, I feel dirty just saying that!) he is investing a lot of money in promoting these people. It would be unfair for another record label to swoop in and start signing acts to compete against SyCo's own signed artists. The clause is there to protect SyCo's interests, not to protect the winner.
However, i do think it is unfair that contestants that Simon isn't interested in signing should be forced to stick to this clause. Fair enough if Simon wants to sign them and they refuse. He needs to be able to protects his investments. But if he is not interested in signing someone at all, he should release them from this contract and allow them a fair chance to find a job with someone else. The fact that he can reject someone AND stop them from promoting themselves elsewhere is unfair, IMO.
I agree its unfair, not that anything in life is fair, especially when you consider that the money Simon is investing is part of the money he has made from the show off the backs of ALL the contestants. I would bet that he makes more from the show than he actually invests in the winners.
I find some of the comments odd. The latter finalists have usually all received millions of votes and have hundreds of thousands of supporters. X Factor has promoted them and given them a huge market. The winner is not actually always the person who would sell the most downloads or CDs. Why wouldn't Syco sign them?
Why would we be annoyed if he signs them? Only the winner gets the guaranteed £1m contract as agreed, that's a huge prize. Syco would never give someone like Mary Byrne that level of promotion but if we'd placed her first he'd be obliged to. The runners up getting contracts takes nothing from the winner and Syco is careful, at least initially, to promote them as the winner and the others have to go behind in the line.
If Simon doesn't sign the various finalists then someone else will and he will have done all the work and mentoring with his TV show and colleagues and a rival would take all the profit. Also, realistically contestants know they have very little chance of winning but it's a multiple of that to get on the tour and maybe get a secondary contract and that's a big incentive for people to enter.
If your fave wins then they are guaranteed a record deal - even if they are Wagner. Allegedly 'a million pound' deal: a good team of lawyers and accountants will find a lot of wiggle room there, but the winner will have to be given some kind of contract with a big lump of money attached.
So if we'd all voted for Wagner, Simon would have had to swallow it and smile and reach for his chequebook. But no, we can't ban him from spending more Syco money signing other acts on whatever terms he sees fit to negotiate.
Oh and btw, eejit is right (eejit often is right, I've noticed) - advances are usually non-recoupable. The artist will never have to repay them - however they won't see any more money until their earnings have covered the cost of the advance.
If you are a musical genius with a long career ahead you're likely best negotiating the best possible royalty rate and trading that off against the size of your advance. If you're Matt Cardle, you're probably just as well to fill your pockets up front, as the chances of earning any more money out of Syco are rather slim
Such a load of rubbish has been posted on this thread.
Some people 'thinking' that Cowell 'owns ' the music Industry.He has a label within Sony,basically an independent subsiduary label Allbe it very prominent and succesful one because of his tv shows.
How many acts in the top 40 are `Syco Acts? mmmm , not many;), Pete Waterman was more prolific way back in the 80's.
Cowell is just a businessman, he can't FORCE acts to sign with him, to suggest the losing acts HAVE to sign a recording deal with Syco is nonsense.(he holds a gun to their heads right?;))
He needs to protect his interests ,of course he does.but to suggest that he has signed up ALL contestants prior to the lives is ridiculous.Record companies don't work like that ,too much money involved.
most wannabe acts would love to be OFFERED a contract by Syco, and Cowell knows' this
The Xfactor winner is guaranteed a contract ,the others? we wait and see .
It's only until the tour is over. Not a full year. That's why Olly could release stuff before then.
There are 4 other specified sub-labels of Sony that the contestants can also sign for, Epic is one of them.The Syco label is also a 100% subsidiary of the Sony empire as well.Negotiations with other labels apart from these can start 3 months after the X-factor final I think.May be 3 months after the X-factor tour finishes even ????
The winning act gets 15 per cent from single and album sales. Headlining a tour brings 7.5 per cent of show profits and 15 per cent of merchandise sales.
All the artists have to recoup before they see any of the above.Since many of the X-factor contestants signed to $yco don't seem to go on tour extensively.It could take many years before any real money comes in.That's if they make a success of it even.It's doubtful if Alexandra Burke has fully recouped yet.I wonder if Leona Lewis's house that was 'given' ? to her was part of a recoupable deal as well.It could be in effect that she took a vertial morgage with him really.
DS confirmed back in July that the runner up on Over the Rainbow would be the understudy and she is now scheduled to play the part one evening a week too. Don't recall what happened in the shows between Maria and Over the Rainbow, but it's certainly not 'illegal' for the BBC/Lloyd Webber now.
The recording contract hasn't been made a big deal of during this past series of X Factor.
I remember Pop Idol when Simon Cowell banged on about only one person can win the contract with his company.
He clearly wanted Gareth Gates to win. When WIll Young won, Gareth Gates was also signed.
I can't see that voting to get somebody a deal / win would imply exclusivity.
the public's voting has been so abused that I hardly think that complaint would get close to the top ten of outrages.
Because the XF winner's prize, a contract worth £xM, is for a one person. It is not a shared prize. Signing non-winning finalists is giving them prizes that are additional to the winner's prize. This does not affect the prize awarded to the winner.
What was done in ‘How do you solve a problem like Maria?’ divided the prize between the top two. It would be like splitting the value of the recording contract between the winner and runner-up on XF with each getting a fraction of the total. So if the XF contract is worth £3M the top two might get contracts worth £1.75M and £1.25M. That would be unfair to the winner.
Thanks for this- it's exactly what I was thinking but couldn't think of a way to express it!
I think looking at the boost Matts getting in PR, backing, experience with the media & the industry, profile, first single - there seems no question that its far better to be the winner, other Syco contracts or not.
Ive been amazed by how slick and intense it is- use of FB & twitter for example. Hes taken to it like a duck to water as well. Rumour of an earlier album's encouraging too.
I imagine he'll be chuffed for the others - they all seem to like each other and they'll all get their time in the sun.
DS confirmed back in July that the runner up on Over the Rainbow would be the understudy and she is now scheduled to play the part one evening a week too. Don't recall what happened in the shows between Maria and Over the Rainbow, but it's certainly not 'illegal' for the BBC/Lloyd Webber now.
Thanks...I went over to the IDA thread to ask aswell!
It seems that there were rumours of it during the Joseph and Nancy programmes but obviously that changed for Dorothy.
Although Sophie is still only the understudy and not the alternate.
PS I wish I hadn't put the word 'illegal' in the OP!!!:)
Agree that illegal isn't the right phrase as Simon Cowell has made up the rules.
I can fully see why people have to sign a contract though, as it would be really unfair to Syco to benefit from all the exposure from X factor, mentoring, publicity etc. and then sign up with someone else the day after it finishes.
Agree that illegal isn't the right phrase as Simon Cowell has made up the rules.
I can fully see why people have to sign a contract though, as it would be really unfair to Syco to benefit from all the exposure from X factor, mentoring, publicity etc. and then sign up with someone else the day after it finishes.
I think it should really only be for those that reach the lives....it seems unfair that people who are booted out at boot camp would still be contract bound.
It happens in all sorts of fields not just the music industry. Many companies who pay for your training will get you to sign a clause to say if you leave within so many months/years of the training you have to pay them back so they are not left with a bill for your training that you then go and use to benefit a competitor.
I remember a few years ago in ‘How do you solve a problem like Maria?’ Connie Fisher won and Aoife Mulholland was made the alternate Maria and I think ALW and the BBC were told this couldn’t happen again as people had voted for Maria and fact that they had Aoife as well nulled out some of the votes (sorry that wasn’t the most eloquently put, but I hope you get what I mean)
Anyway since then, I don’t think any of the other contestants have played the roles even in cases where the producers clearly favoured Jessie Buckley over Jodie Prenger.
So….
How come Cowell can sign ALL the finalists then?
Like why bother voting for Matt if all the others essentially get the same deal anyway?
Edit: I've put the illegal in ' ' as I mean against Ofcom rules etc
The reason for the alternate though was because Connie was unable to perform 8 shows a week and that was at the advice of her doctor due to throat issues. Getting someone in from the show rather than audtioning was the easy option at the time.
However, the X Factor only gurantees the winner a record deal and everything that comes with it. When Same Difference were signed it was for one single to begin with, the album was added later.
Therefore Simon can sign who wants and the contract is bound to be different. Cher has reportedly got a clause stating Will.i.am can and will produce the first album. However, no one currently knows the full extent of the contracts except for the rumour they are all worth £1million.
But it's not the same deal because the winner (Matt) gets the cherry on the cake, an instant release while the X-Factor Iron is at it's hottest.
You are right though, Cowell is free to effectively launch new performers through the programme. So you wonder why he doesn't go for a bit more diversity rather than showcasing the same sort of cover acts (and songs) year after year.
Agree that illegal isn't the right phrase as Simon Cowell has made up the rules.
Cowell has made up the rules in advance, but once the competition has started he has to stick by them or he could be taken to court, although I think the rules can be modified during the competition so long as no contestants are disadvantaged by the change.
I can fully see why people have to sign a contract though, as it would be really unfair to Syco to benefit from all the exposure from X factor, mentoring, publicity etc. and then sign up with someone else the day after it finishes.
Comments
It's just they don't get any extra money until the advance has been recouped (through sales and the rest).
But if the money is never recouped that way, the act doesn't have to repay it.
I agree its unfair, not that anything in life is fair, especially when you consider that the money Simon is investing is part of the money he has made from the show off the backs of ALL the contestants. I would bet that he makes more from the show than he actually invests in the winners.
Why would we be annoyed if he signs them? Only the winner gets the guaranteed £1m contract as agreed, that's a huge prize. Syco would never give someone like Mary Byrne that level of promotion but if we'd placed her first he'd be obliged to. The runners up getting contracts takes nothing from the winner and Syco is careful, at least initially, to promote them as the winner and the others have to go behind in the line.
If Simon doesn't sign the various finalists then someone else will and he will have done all the work and mentoring with his TV show and colleagues and a rival would take all the profit. Also, realistically contestants know they have very little chance of winning but it's a multiple of that to get on the tour and maybe get a secondary contract and that's a big incentive for people to enter.
Not so much annoyed, but does make it pretty much a waste of voters money from the semi-finals onwards.
I guess it depends on what the voters are voting for, is it for their fave to win the XFactor or to get a record deal and potential career.
So if we'd all voted for Wagner, Simon would have had to swallow it and smile and reach for his chequebook. But no, we can't ban him from spending more Syco money signing other acts on whatever terms he sees fit to negotiate.
Oh and btw, eejit is right (eejit often is right, I've noticed) - advances are usually non-recoupable. The artist will never have to repay them - however they won't see any more money until their earnings have covered the cost of the advance.
If you are a musical genius with a long career ahead you're likely best negotiating the best possible royalty rate and trading that off against the size of your advance. If you're Matt Cardle, you're probably just as well to fill your pockets up front, as the chances of earning any more money out of Syco are rather slim
Some people 'thinking' that Cowell 'owns ' the music Industry.He has a label within Sony,basically an independent subsiduary label Allbe it very prominent and succesful one because of his tv shows.
How many acts in the top 40 are `Syco Acts? mmmm , not many;), Pete Waterman was more prolific way back in the 80's.
Cowell is just a businessman, he can't FORCE acts to sign with him, to suggest the losing acts HAVE to sign a recording deal with Syco is nonsense.(he holds a gun to their heads right?;))
He needs to protect his interests ,of course he does.but to suggest that he has signed up ALL contestants prior to the lives is ridiculous.Record companies don't work like that ,too much money involved.
most wannabe acts would love to be OFFERED a contract by Syco, and Cowell knows' this
The Xfactor winner is guaranteed a contract ,the others? we wait and see .
There are 4 other specified sub-labels of Sony that the contestants can also sign for, Epic is one of them.The Syco label is also a 100% subsidiary of the Sony empire as well.Negotiations with other labels apart from these can start 3 months after the X-factor final I think.May be 3 months after the X-factor tour finishes even ????
The winning act gets 15 per cent from single and album sales. Headlining a tour brings 7.5 per cent of show profits and 15 per cent of merchandise sales.
All the artists have to recoup before they see any of the above.Since many of the X-factor contestants signed to $yco don't seem to go on tour extensively.It could take many years before any real money comes in.That's if they make a success of it even.It's doubtful if Alexandra Burke has fully recouped yet.I wonder if Leona Lewis's house that was 'given' ? to her was part of a recoupable deal as well.It could be in effect that she took a vertial morgage with him really.
DS confirmed back in July that the runner up on Over the Rainbow would be the understudy and she is now scheduled to play the part one evening a week too. Don't recall what happened in the shows between Maria and Over the Rainbow, but it's certainly not 'illegal' for the BBC/Lloyd Webber now.
I remember Pop Idol when Simon Cowell banged on about only one person can win the contract with his company.
He clearly wanted Gareth Gates to win. When WIll Young won, Gareth Gates was also signed.
the public's voting has been so abused that I hardly think that complaint would get close to the top ten of outrages.
Thanks for this- it's exactly what I was thinking but couldn't think of a way to express it!
Ive been amazed by how slick and intense it is- use of FB & twitter for example. Hes taken to it like a duck to water as well. Rumour of an earlier album's encouraging too.
I imagine he'll be chuffed for the others - they all seem to like each other and they'll all get their time in the sun.
Thanks...I went over to the IDA thread to ask aswell!
It seems that there were rumours of it during the Joseph and Nancy programmes but obviously that changed for Dorothy.
Although Sophie is still only the understudy and not the alternate.
PS I wish I hadn't put the word 'illegal' in the OP!!!:)
I can fully see why people have to sign a contract though, as it would be really unfair to Syco to benefit from all the exposure from X factor, mentoring, publicity etc. and then sign up with someone else the day after it finishes.
I think it should really only be for those that reach the lives....it seems unfair that people who are booted out at boot camp would still be contract bound.
I'm not sure about the judges houses stage
The reason for the alternate though was because Connie was unable to perform 8 shows a week and that was at the advice of her doctor due to throat issues. Getting someone in from the show rather than audtioning was the easy option at the time.
However, the X Factor only gurantees the winner a record deal and everything that comes with it. When Same Difference were signed it was for one single to begin with, the album was added later.
Therefore Simon can sign who wants and the contract is bound to be different. Cher has reportedly got a clause stating Will.i.am can and will produce the first album. However, no one currently knows the full extent of the contracts except for the rumour they are all worth £1million.
You are right though, Cowell is free to effectively launch new performers through the programme. So you wonder why he doesn't go for a bit more diversity rather than showcasing the same sort of cover acts (and songs) year after year.
(Yes. I do know you meant a different sort of bondage.)