Terms and Conditions - what does this mean exactly?
Me-Cheetah
Posts: 599 Forum Member
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Maybe some of you business/ legal eagles can help me with the wording of some T&Cs.
My OH has a contract to provide a service for the local council and they want him to complete the work and then they will pay ( it's a training service).
The T&Cs in the contract however state that he 'will raise an invoice in advance of the services provided'.
Now, I maybe thick or something, but surely that means he invoices prior to doing the work? Or has the meaning of the word 'advance' changed?
And seeing as he provides equipment and a training space it is reasonable to receive payment upfront anyway?
Any thoughts ?
My OH has a contract to provide a service for the local council and they want him to complete the work and then they will pay ( it's a training service).
The T&Cs in the contract however state that he 'will raise an invoice in advance of the services provided'.
Now, I maybe thick or something, but surely that means he invoices prior to doing the work? Or has the meaning of the word 'advance' changed?
And seeing as he provides equipment and a training space it is reasonable to receive payment upfront anyway?
Any thoughts ?
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Comments
However, submitting an invoice is not the same as receiving money up front. They'll probably want some sort of payment terms.
"Here is what I am going to and how much it will cost."
"Ok, cool. Once you have done it we will pay you."
"Awesome."
He should not record the pro forma in in his accounts.
Couple of other tips for if you have never worked for a LA before:
Make sure your bank account details are on the invoice and call them and ask if you have to complete a new suppliers form: this enables you to get set up on their accounting system: The number of times LA's say - when you are chasing payment - that you haven't been set up cause you haven't completed a new supplier form.
Also, make sure your terms of payment are on the invoice: most local authorities pay invoices on a cycle of payments ...
Make sure you have a Purchase Order number and the name and internal extention of the person who has requested your services is detailed on the invoice.
Hope that helps
And then they should pay within 10 days - the average is 17 days
Unless it Worcester - then it'll be 65 days
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2200579/Half-councils-late-paying-small-business-suppliers.html
From 2012 mind - so maybe it's improved.
Part of my confusion was that a different LA paid him prior to do the work last year ( both councils have a budget for the work and he is the sole provider of it), but they have clearly chosen to administer the budget differently. I would prefer that they pay him up front, but there you go.
Many thanks!
In that case he should specify payment in advance, since they can't go elsewhere for the service.
I gave up dealing with councils who wouldn't pay in advance. I didn't see why they should have the interest.
Why should they?
Do you offer to pay the bill at your local taverna before you've eaten your meal?
Why should they pay me? Because, like the OP, I was the sole supplier of the service they desperately needed. They either paid in advance or they didn't get the service. On the odd occasion when they wouldn't/couldn't pay, it didn't affect me. I had plenty of customers.
(Note: if anyone is not in this position, they are in the wrong business. You don't ever want to be in a position where you are fighting someone else on price.)
To be honest this analogy does fall down with the fact whenever I've eaten at Harvester, Brewers Fayre etc you do pay in advance.
I've always found it odd the way many businesses effectively rely on 'trust' for payment afterward. Makes it very easy to exploit.
1) he sends them an invoice (not a pro forma invoice, which is a different thing, and not what they are asking for so don't mark as pro forma) - so they know how much he is charging
2) he does the work
3) they pay him for the work from the invoice he sent
simple. just follow what they have asked to be done
if they paid folk for work before it was done, could you imagine how much the council would be paying out for work that's never done? it's a huge organisation paying a smaller one, very different to a workman looking for payment in advance before undertaking work at an individuals home, where they could fail to make payment after the work is done
This is more or less how I make my living and I would, mostly, support the post quoted next. I have trained for 20-30 local authorities and have a lot of experience here.
Councils say they do not pay in advance. In my experience, I have mostly managed to compromise where I submit the invoice after the first day of training, or split the invoice so that costs are met upfront, but labour paid later. Mostly, to tell the truth, the Training Manager has just gone along with what seemed most fair, and 'massaged' the dates on their system to make sure I was paid within what was reasonable.
Out of interest, I have never even heard of a 'pro-forma invoice', and have never been asked for one.
I would definitely make sure you are set up as a New Supplier, or payment will be delayed. If your OH is sole-trading, these can be harder to complete and require some negotiation, as they sometimes seem to require levels of insurance, etc that are irrelevant and unnecessary for someone who is self-employed. I have always been able to point this out and they have lowered their requirements. You may need some headed paper with your bank details on it, sometimes with a signature, also. Depends on the council.
All too often, the person buying from you is not au fait with the procedures to make sure you are paid, so it is worth really pushing them to make sure you are set up as a supplier, etc.
PO number is also important and be sure to put it on your invoice.
Many local authorities are now outsourcing their Accounts Payable depts, and you may well find yourself having to submit an invoice in a certain format (PDF say) to a special email address, set out in a certain way, and so on.
Personally, all I have ever had to do is send an email to whoever was buying from me with my proposal on price, and they have then got a PO number for me. On occasion, I have been asked to write up a slightly more formal proposal.
Generally speaking, it's all been relatively informal in my experience.
The analogy might fail if I'd mentioned Harvester or Brewers Fayre, but I didn't so ...
Whereas I don't find it in the least odd.
Perhaps there's an absence of trust in your life.
Exactly. The local authority may not have specifically mentioned a pro forma invoice but this is the correct procedure.
The Terms and Conditions referred to by the OP appear to have been sloppily drafted - the local authority may have assumed (wrongly, it would seem) that self-employed contractors will be accustomed to this process.
Ha! Yes, I've thought this all along . They included out of date legal regs, which I had to point out to them.
There have been other niggly problems with the work so thanks for all the comments - really interesting and useful info.:)
not according to what the customer is asking for, which is an invoice, which is a different thing to a pro-forma invoice
the supplier can of course ask the customer if a pro forma invoice is sufficient
based on the basic questions being asked it's unlikely the supplier in question is VAT registered anyway
Based on the replies you are posting, I conclude that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Er, you said 'tavern', which according to dictionary.com is literally 'places where liquors are sold to be consumed on the premises'.
That would cover Brewers Fayre, Harvester and many other similar types of restaurant.
Maybe
I take it you don't run a business and have never been short-changed by anybody, ever?
well you are wrong
If you are the sole supplier, you call the shots. It doesn't matter what rules the recipient wishes to apply; he either pays up front or he doesn't get the goods/service - ever.
BTW this is invariably the way that mail order works. It's "normal" to pay up front. It's extremely rare to get C.O.D. (except in Greece, funnily enough).