Been put in WRAG - now what?

13»

Comments

  • dmpdmp Posts: 3,242
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    My forms are all set to be sent back to atos tomorrow morning, here's hoping for the best, but fearing the worst.
    Dave
  • TelevisionUserTelevisionUser Posts: 41,416
    Forum Member
    David_Gray wrote: »
    I'm set for reassessment on 20 August
    dmp wrote: »
    My forms are all set to be sent back to atos tomorrow morning, here's hoping for the best, but fearing the worst.
    Dave

    I'd suggest bookmarking this thread with your browsers and use the links given if necessary although hopefully this won't be the case.
  • CloudbustingCloudbusting Posts: 650
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    dmp wrote: »
    My forms are all set to be sent back to atos tomorrow morning, here's hoping for the best, but fearing the worst.
    Dave

    All the luck in the world, Dave. They do put some in the Support Group after all when made to re-think the original decision, so here's hoping (for myself, too). My thoughts are with you. :)
  • jackoljackol Posts: 7,887
    Forum Member
    I ddn't mean you should get more but I believe the WRAG is only £67 a week so a lot less than the £120 a week a single person on IB got. That seems very unfair if you're still not really fit for work.:mad:

    Chris, you are outing yourself!! Crazy
  • shmiskshmisk Posts: 7,963
    Forum Member
    I currently get around £100 a week on WRAG. Though I live with a parent who supports me emotionally and in terms of keeping a roof over my head so I am VERY lucky in that way. I do think, overall, what ill and disabled people are given in this country is a joke. In the US you actually do get enough to live on if you go on disability there...

    do you get any DLA, and your mum get carers?
  • dmpdmp Posts: 3,242
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I'd suggest bookmarking this thread with your browsers and use the links given if necessary although hopefully this won't be the case.
    All the luck in the world, Dave. They do put some in the Support Group after all when made to re-think the original decision, so here's hoping (for myself, too). My thoughts are with you. :)
    Thanks both, my wife and I went to the CAB who checked all my replies and they are hopeful of a good outcome but like everyone I'll have several weeks of waiting for the post. All I can do is agree with Cloudbusting and wish any waiting for their results the best of luck. The next step will be the ppi inquest in the next year or so.

    Good idea Televisionuser as the thread seems to keep dropping off the page.
    Dave
  • TelevisionUserTelevisionUser Posts: 41,416
    Forum Member
    deleted
  • CloudbustingCloudbusting Posts: 650
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I had good news in terms of being in the WRAG - I had an interview with the disability advisor at the job centre yesterday (my mum came with me) and because I'm appealing and have a couple of letters from my psychologists and am under the care of my local mental health team, I'm going to be left alone. The lady was nice enough and gave me information about how things would go if my appeal was unsuccessful, while being quite reassuring in that things wouldn't be too intense or high pressured. She also gave me info on support teams who could help me should I choose myself to try working, even if I am moved to the Support Group.

    All in all, the interview was much less scary than I thought it might be. I'm hoping I'll win my appeal even if I have to go all the way to a tribunal. I do have so much support from my mental health team and that does ease my mind somewhat.

    Just wanted to let people know that being in the WRAG isn't always the end of the world. I think there are a lot of scare stories out there and people are getting a somewhat unbalanced and biased view of what things are like. I'm sure things are different in different parts of the country, but I want to urge people not to worry too much. I was also told by the disability advisor that 90% of people are winning their appeals - so that was good to know.

    Keep your chin up, and good luck to everyone going through this. It's an absolutely rotten and cruel way for the sick to be treated but there IS hope.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,073
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I can add fresh news to this. I had my ESA work programme thing today.

    I had to get a letter faxed from my Doc to the Job Centre to say I couldnt go because of health issues so it was done over the phone. It was at 3pm. It wasnt too bad even though I cant even see myself getting better to go back to work they asked me what experience I had so they could find jobs for me?

    Anyway they said there is no pressure untill im better but they will call me every 2 weeks (like signing on) to see if theres any jobs for me ect.... I have to answer or it could affect my benifits.

    They were friendly but a bit salesy if thats a word, like they are on commission to find you a job.
  • TelevisionUserTelevisionUser Posts: 41,416
    Forum Member
    barneyboy wrote: »
    I can add fresh news to this. I had my ESA work programme thing today.

    I had to get a letter faxed from my Doc to the Job Centre to say I couldnt go because of health issues so it was done over the phone. It was at 3pm. It wasnt too bad even though I cant even see myself getting better to go back to work they asked me what experience I had so they could find jobs for me?

    Anyway they said there is no pressure untill im better but they will call me every 2 weeks (like signing on) to see if theres any jobs for me ect.... I have to answer or it could affect my benifits.

    They were friendly but a bit salesy if thats a word, like they are on commission to find you a job.

    If they ever do become too pushy, barneyboy, then I'd suggest having a word with the local Jobcentre's resident disability advisor and explain the situation and ask for the staff to be a bit more considerate although I hope it doesn't come to this.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    barneyboy wrote: »
    I can add fresh news to this. I had my ESA work programme thing today.

    I had to get a letter faxed from my Doc to the Job Centre to say I couldnt go because of health issues so it was done over the phone. It was at 3pm. It wasnt too bad even though I cant even see myself getting better to go back to work they asked me what experience I had so they could find jobs for me?

    Anyway they said there is no pressure untill im better but they will call me every 2 weeks (like signing on) to see if theres any jobs for me ect.... I have to answer or it could affect my benifits.

    They were friendly but a bit salesy if thats a word, like they are on commission to find you a job.

    This is:

    A) Unusual
    B) It shouldn't affect your benefits if you don't answer a phone-call..
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,073
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    This is:

    A) Unusual
    B) It shouldn't affect your benefits if you don't answer a phone-call..

    I thought that. I thought they would leave me alone for a few months. They said I am supposed to go there but they are willing to do it over the phone. I also have to email them a CV ASAP. They said its all mandatory.

    They also said my skills are transferable to other jobs they could find me and they could also send me on courses.

    Oh yeah, they also said when ive got a job they will set me up with a financial advisor to help me out with the changes?

    I don't need this sh*t every 2 weeks to be honest, my anxiety cant take it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 19
    Forum Member
    barneyboy wrote: »
    I thought that. I thought they would leave me alone for a few months. They said I am supposed to go there but they are willing to do it over the phone. I also have to email them a CV ASAP. They said its all mandatory.

    They also said my skills are transferable to other jobs they could find me and they could also send me on courses.

    Oh yeah, they also said when ive got a job they will set me up with a financial advisor to help me out with the changes?

    I don't need this sh*t every 2 weeks to be honest, my anxiety cant take it.

    You are only expected to have 6 work focused interviews so where did every 2 weeks come from?
  • TelevisionUserTelevisionUser Posts: 41,416
    Forum Member
    barneyboy wrote: »
    I thought that. I thought they would leave me alone for a few months. They said I am supposed to go there but they are willing to do it over the phone. I also have to email them a CV ASAP. They said its all mandatory.

    They also said my skills are transferable to other jobs they could find me and they could also send me on courses.

    Oh yeah, they also said when ive got a job they will set me up with a financial advisor to help me out with the changes?

    I don't need this sh*t every 2 weeks to be honest, my anxiety cant take it.

    This is actually disturbing to read. If someone's been placed in the ESA-WRAG group then that should be a recognition that the person is genuinely unwell and is not currently fit for work although they might become so some time in the future.

    However, barneyboy, it sounds like they're trying to push you into a standard Jobseekers system. If you feel this is becoming too much and too intense then I'd suggest getting help from your nearest Citizens Advice Bureau office (plug in your postcode here http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/getadvice.htm) and your GP. You have my best wishes in dealing with this matter. :)

    PS Using some of the wording about substantial risk might help to get them to back off a bit if it comes to writing them a letter: http://dwpexamination.org/forum/general-discussion/important-how-to-gain-exemption-from-dwpatos-fit-for-work-wrag-decisions-by-applying-esa-regulations-29-and-35-new-campaign-by-black-triangle-dpac/
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,073
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Thank you both. Ill look into it. Ill also mention to her (I think my job person is called Kerry) about the 6 interviews. She told me it was every 2 weeks for 2 years. Ive been freaking out.
  • MissDeeBlueMissDeeBlue Posts: 4,045
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    To all people who have been placed in WRAG even though they have Panic disorder/social phobia/Agoraphobia...

    Its nuts isn't it? It is the mental equivalent of tipping a wheelchair bound person out of his wheelchair and saying "get up and f****g walk"

    Bloody crazy

    First of all, try not to panic. Hey there is ENOUGH irrational anxiety to deal with, without piling the reality stuff on top of it.
    secondly, this change of circumstance will very rarely leave you destitute, and starving, or even worse (for the anxiety patient) thrown into a huge office and chucked a pen & paper and told to get on with your new 9-5 job, 5 days a week

    There are options.
    Appeal. Its an option, but it is very difficult to get a favourable result (to get you into leave alone status) unless you have no legs no eyes no brain.

    In the WRAG group...
    The interviews can be done periodically - usually once every 3 months, over the phone, from your work group assigned helper, who will tell you "don't worry now, try to relax and I will speak to you soon" You are NOT committed to attend in person

    In the meantime....The goal will be done in baby steps, and as LONG as there IS progression on your part, (little walks to the shops down the road, or posting a letter at local mail box) the job centre will recognise your effort and mark it down on your records, but you have to report you are trying your best to do something to get outside - even if it is sitting in next doors garden.

    There is no time scale. They are aware recovery can take years. They know its dangerous, and in some cases, life threatening to push an anxiety patient, or to threaten, or give pressure to 'be normal'.

    The anxiety patient is NOT a benefit free-loader. It is usually a person who has suffered tremendously via a nervous breakdown, and if there is a person who would love to be 'normal' and in work, it really is the anxiety sufferers, because I have heard that most would prefer to work their asses off like the rest of the employed than be tormented and imprisoned by thier daily panic attacks
  • Janey JonesJaney Jones Posts: 878
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    barneyboy wrote: »
    Thank you both. Ill look into it. Ill also mention to her (I think my job person is called Kerry) about the 6 interviews. She told me it was every 2 weeks for 2 years. Ive been freaking out.

    Barneyboy, if I'm reading this correctly, is it your Work programme adviser who's insisting on seeing you every two weeks or is it the Jobcentre? As has already been mentioned, a Jobcentre adviser is limited to 6 interviews a year but WP can ask you to attend as often as they like :(

    If it's the WP, did you sign the consent form which allows them to pass your details on to prospective employers? You can withdraw this consent at any time, that way they can't get any outcome payments for you and they will leave you alone for longer periods of time or simply "park" you and interview you by phone every once in a while ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,073
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Barneyboy, if I'm reading this correctly, is it your Work programme adviser who's insisting on seeing you every two weeks or is it the Jobcentre? As has already been mentioned, a Jobcentre adviser is limited to 6 interviews a year but WP can ask you to attend as often as they like :(

    If it's the WP, did you sign the consent form which allows them to pass your details on to prospective employers? You can withdraw this consent at any time, that way they can't get any outcome payments for you and they will leave you alone for longer periods of time or simply "park" you and interview you by phone every once in a while ;)

    I wish I understood to be honest. The Avanta people are the ones who are pushy. Ive never signed anything, it was a nightmare for them to find the fax from the docs in the first place! (they don't have any email or fax apparently). I have to ring about 7 numbers to even try to get somebody remotely interested.

    I don't know what to do apart from having to answer my phone every 2 weeks. I know what digital spy is like but for the few that are understanding on here thank you for the support. I really am a wreck.I don't even remember the time she's due to ring, my phone is usually unplugged from the wall. I cant even think of doing a CV because im not up to what I used to do. Im going to be in trouble.
  • Janey JonesJaney Jones Posts: 878
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    barneyboy wrote: »
    I wish I understood to be honest. The Avanta people are the ones who are pushy. Ive never signed anything, it was a nightmare for them to find the fax from the docs in the first place! (they don't have any email or fax apparently). I have to ring about 7 numbers to even try to get somebody remotely interested.

    I don't know what to do apart from having to answer my phone every 2 weeks. I know what digital spy is like but for the few that are understanding on here thank you for the support. I really am a wreck.I don't even remember the time she's due to ring, my phone is usually unplugged from the wall. I cant even think of doing a CV because im not up to what I used to do. Im going to be in trouble.

    There's a very useful document that you might like to read here:

    http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/work-programme-provider.shtml

    It's the DWP's own guidance for WP providers and you'd probably be surprised at what they are and are not allowed to do, for example:

    "You can support ESA participants to apply for and take
    up work, but you may not mandate these participants to apply for jobs, undertake medical treatment, take up
    work or unpaid work experience."

    Also, all mandated activity must be in writing and in the correct format, a phone call, text message, email or a scrap of paper is not acceptable - a sanction will not be upheld if the correct mandation isn't used.

    If you feel that you're being treated unfairly by your provider, you can send a complaint to the manager of the office where your adviser is based. You might also want to send a copy to these guys:

    Derek French/Clare Elliot
    Head of Work Programmes
    Department for Work and Pensions
    Level 4
    Steel City House
    56 West Street
    Sheffield
    S1 2GQ

    (Shamelessly pilfered from another forum :o )

    If the complaint isn't resolved to your satisfaction within eight weeks, you can escalate it to the Independent Case Examiner (and I'm sure you could find a way to casually mention them in your complaint letter!):

    http://www.ind-case-exam.org.uk/en/complaints/

    It's also amazing how quickly these organisations jump to attention when an MP is involved:

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

    I know that all of this seems like a lot of effort but it'll show them that you're not going to let them push you around without a fight ;)

    I'm not 100% sure how you stand as regards supplying a CV but I'll try to find out and post tomorrow.

    Take care :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,073
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Thank you so much. That's all pretty much the opposite to what she said. They are obviously on commission to get me a job you could hear it by the way she spoke. Im sure of it. I used to work in sales myself.
  • shortyknickersshortyknickers Posts: 2,488
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    They work to targets. If they dont achieve their targets they are out. A friend of mine who was on JSA and got sent on the work programme found herself a job, completely independently of the WP, she was head hunted. Two WP advisors were fighting over which one of them could class it as "theirs" as neither were reaching their targets. Its sick.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,073
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    That adds up. She had me down as being off for stress. I couldn't get a word in edgeways saying I throw up 4-5 times a day and sometimes have pink wee with blood in it with liver and kidney failure. (On top of my anxiety and depression).

    It was all glossed over that my skills can find me a great job.

    Im in bed almost half of my life!
  • Janey JonesJaney Jones Posts: 878
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    barneyboy wrote: »
    That adds up. She had me down as being off for stress. I couldn't get a word in edgeways saying I throw up 4-5 times a day and sometimes have pink wee with blood in it with liver and kidney failure. (On top of my anxiety and depression).

    It was all glossed over that my skills can find me a great job.

    Im in bed almost half of my life!

    Dear God barney :eek: What sort of work does she believe you to be capable of doing??? :confused:

    Unfortunately, WP advisers are trained to become selectively deaf when it comes to illness and disability :( They won't even ask how you are in case you try to tell them - it takes up too much of their "precious" time apparently (fact) :mad:

    [/rant] :o

    Anyway, sorry about the late reply - long story - but your CV falls under the provision of the Data Protection Act, it contains personal information so you can't be mandated to share it with a third party, not even the Work Programme.

    The only reason the WP are asking for a copy is so that they can farm it out to potential employers, which they shouldn't be preparing to do as you aren't able to take on any employment atm.

    Never refuse any suggestion made by the WP - that could be considered (by them) as "non-compliance". Instead, simply tell them that you'll consider their suggestion once you are well enough to start looking for work. You'll probably start to sound like a broken record but you're covering your back with them and that's all that matters.

    I know you said that you never signed any paperwork but I'd nevertheless recommend sending them a copy of the "withdrawal of consent" letter (to follow). As I mentioned in my other post, as soon as they have this letter in their possession, you effectively become unprofitable and you'll find that they leave a lot longer between interviews in future ;)

    Send one copy to the manager of the WP office and one to your Job Centre. Use recorded delivery if you can because once the Royal Mail tracking site identifies it as having been delivered, they can't claim that they didn't receive it.

    Here's the letter you need:


    Dear [name of manager],


    As you are aware, I have signed the data waiver/consent form thus authorising
    [name of provider] to share my data with other bodies including potential and actual
    employers. You should also be aware that I have the right to withdraw this
    consent at any time without giving reasons or explanation.


    I understand that such withdrawal does not affect my placement on the Work
    Programme or any employment or offer of employment made.


    Please take this letter as notification of the withdrawal of my consent with
    immediate effect and alter your records to show that my data sharing consent has
    been withdrawn. Please sign and date the copy of this letter to acknowledge
    that it has been received by [name of provider] and that my instructions will be acted upon.


    Yours sincerely,


    [your name]


    I acknowledge receipt of the withdrawal of consent and confirm that it will
    be acted upon without delay.


    Signed :……………………………. on behalf of [name of provider]


    Name:


    Job Description:




    It's not too important if the WP doesn't acknowledge receipt - keep your own copies and proof of postage, Royal Mail will do the rest :cool:

    ...and good luck :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,073
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Dear God barney :eek: What sort of work does she believe you to be capable of doing??? :confused:

    Unfortunately, WP advisers are trained to become selectively deaf when it comes to illness and disability :( They won't even ask how you are in case you try to tell them - it takes up too much of their "precious" time apparently (fact) :mad:

    [/rant] :o

    Anyway, sorry about the late reply - long story - but your CV falls under the provision of the Data Protection Act, it contains personal information so you can't be mandated to share it with a third party, not even the Work Programme.

    The only reason the WP are asking for a copy is so that they can farm it out to potential employers, which they shouldn't be preparing to do as you aren't able to take on any employment atm.

    Never refuse any suggestion made by the WP - that could be considered (by them) as "non-compliance". Instead, simply tell them that you'll consider their suggestion once you are well enough to start looking for work. You'll probably start to sound like a broken record but you're covering your back with them and that's all that matters.

    I know you said that you never signed any paperwork but I'd nevertheless recommend sending them a copy of the "withdrawal of consent" letter (to follow). As I mentioned in my other post, as soon as they have this letter in their possession, you effectively become unprofitable and you'll find that they leave a lot longer between interviews in future ;)

    Send one copy to the manager of the WP office and one to your Job Centre. Use recorded delivery if you can because once the Royal Mail tracking site identifies it as having been delivered, they can't claim that they didn't receive it.

    Here's the letter you need:


    Dear [name of manager],


    As you are aware, I have signed the data waiver/consent form thus authorising
    [name of provider] to share my data with other bodies including potential and actual
    employers. You should also be aware that I have the right to withdraw this
    consent at any time without giving reasons or explanation.


    I understand that such withdrawal does not affect my placement on the Work
    Programme or any employment or offer of employment made.


    Please take this letter as notification of the withdrawal of my consent with
    immediate effect and alter your records to show that my data sharing consent has
    been withdrawn. Please sign and date the copy of this letter to acknowledge
    that it has been received by [name of provider] and that my instructions will be acted upon.


    Yours sincerely,


    [your name]


    I acknowledge receipt of the withdrawal of consent and confirm that it will
    be acted upon without delay.


    Signed :……………………………. on behalf of [name of provider]


    Name:


    Job Description:




    It's not too important if the WP doesn't acknowledge receipt - keep your own copies and proof of postage, Royal Mail will do the rest :cool:

    ...and good luck :)

    Thankyou Janey, ive saved it on my laptop. Ill try and understand it a bit more and post them off. Its all so confusing.
Sign In or Register to comment.