And I disagree with 'most children handling divorce'. I've come across too many who didn't.
Anyone visiting my home would not notice 'an atmosphere' or anything like that. As far as I know my children are very happy and that's the way I should like to keep it. I also have a good relationship with both.
I have to disagree. I've worked in education for 18 years, children do pick up on atmospheres and feelings in the home. No matter how hard you try they notice little things and how different their friends parents act towards each other, they just accept it as normal for their home. As for when to divorce, there is no "best age", they will be upset at any age, it's how the patents deal with the "aftermath" that makes the transition easier or more difficult/upsetting.
It's odd. Of all the replies so far, a great many thought this was a spoof (it isn't) and the vast majority of the rest advise to 'go now, why stick it out?' No one seems to share my view that my children and their happiness are worth the misery, but then once they are sufficiently independent, I'm off in a flash. But for me my children and all other children are the most precious thing in the world. Bar nothing.
Maybe I am old-fashioned. Maybe because, although I'm now more or less an atheist, I was brought up as an RC.
You may not beleive it, but if you are unhappy, your kids have already picked up on this, as has your wife.
If you split amicably, then you will both be happier and so will your kids.
I agree with you that your kids happiness is more important than anything, but it is better being apat and happy than together and miserable.
You may think they are unaware, but that may not be so. You've already said that you and your wife barely speak and I would think that would be noticed by children of that age.
that`s how my parents lived until i was eighteen, bar the 6am wake up row. [one sided, as one rowed and the other ignored].
it made mine and my brother`s life a complete misery and we both suffered at school for it.
It's odd. Of all the replies so far, a great many thought this was a spoof (it isn't) and the vast majority of the rest advise to 'go now, why stick it out?' No one seems to share my view that my children and their happiness are worth the misery, but then once they are sufficiently independent, I'm off in a flash. But for me my children and all other children are the most precious thing in the world. Bar nothing.
Maybe I am old-fashioned. Maybe because, although I'm now more or less an atheist, I was brought up as an RC.
the thing is though and I don't mean to be horrible but by that time you'll be in your early 70s and while I don't consider that massively old, it is old.
you have already wasted a lot of your younger years on this marriage
your children would still be part of your life plus they're not stupid. if the atmosphere at home is as you describe, are you sure its best for them to be brought up in it? I mean what lessons are they learning about marriage from it?
If explained in the right way and sensitively enough then most teenagers can grasp the fact that anyone unhappy in a marriage should divorce.
However that is still your choice as to when you want to leave, but you still wont have a choice about whether you have to support your ex or not.
Well, it's not the pertinent point, and my question to you is more academic than anything else, but as I said before, all other things being equal (i.e. no dependants) exactly why should the man be liable in a way a woman isn't? In our case, she would have a home, a very nice one, though not large, and I would have a house, very tiny, one I bought years ago, and then rented out when I had to move for work, and that was long before I met her.
I stress that she didn't give up anything for me. She didn't make or have to make any sacrifices. Yes, she would have to count her pennies more, but our joint household income is far less than that of other comparable households, e.g. those of my children's friends' parents, because they are both working for a reasonable wage, e.g. a household with two people earning £25,000 (total £50, 000) is better of by quite a bit, than one in which one earns, say £35,000 and the other just £3,000. But stress this response isn't about money, but about just how fair in this day and age it is that the guy still carries the can.
Well, it's not the pertinent point, and my question to you is more academic than anything else, but as I said before, all other things being equal (i.e. no dependants) exactly why should the man be liable in a way a woman isn't? In our case, she would have a home, a very nice one, though not large, and I would have a house, very tiny, one I bought years ago, and then rented out when I had to move for work, and that was long before I met her.
I stress that she didn't give up anything for me. She didn't make or have to make any sacrifices. Yes, she would have to count her pennies more, but our joint household income is far less than that of other comparable households, e.g. those of my children's friends' parents, because they are both working for a reasonable wage, e.g. a household with two people earning £25,000 (total £50, 000) is better of by quite a bit, than one in which one earns, say £35,000 and the other just £3,000. But stress this response isn't about money, but about just how fair in this day and age it is that the guy still carries the can.
A work colleague has just left her husband and she has to pay him maintanance.
Well, it's not the pertinent point, and my question to you is more academic than anything else, but as I said before, all other things being equal (i.e. no dependants) exactly why should the man be liable in a way a woman isn't? In our case, she would have a home, a very nice one, though not large, and I would have a house, very tiny, one I bought years ago, and then rented out when I had to move for work, and that was long before I met her.
I stress that she didn't give up anything for me. She didn't make or have to make any sacrifices. Yes, she would have to count her pennies more, but our joint household income is far less than that of other comparable households, e.g. those of my children's friends' parents, because they are both working for a reasonable wage, e.g. a household with two people earning £25,000 (total £50, 000) is better of by quite a bit, than one in which one earns, say £35,000 and the other just £3,000. But stress this response isn't about money, but about just how fair in this day and age it is that the guy still carries the can.
Did/do you do most of the child care and household work?
Well, it's not the pertinent point, and my question to you is more academic than anything else, but as I said before, all other things being equal (i.e. no dependants) exactly why should the man be liable in a way a woman isn't? In our case, she would have a home, a very nice one, though not large, and I would have a house, very tiny, one I bought years ago, and then rented out when I had to move for work, and that was long before I met her.
I stress that she didn't give up anything for me. She didn't make or have to make any sacrifices. Yes, she would have to count her pennies more, but our joint household income is far less than that of other comparable households, e.g. those of my children's friends' parents, because they are both working for a reasonable wage, e.g. a household with two people earning £25,000 (total £50, 000) is better of by quite a bit, than one in which one earns, say £35,000 and the other just £3,000. But stress this response isn't about money, but about just how fair in this day and age it is that the guy still carries the can.
it's nothing to do with gender and all to do with the circumstances of the individual marriage. I know cases where wives have had to pay maintenance to their husbands
also to be brutally honest getting angry about the system as it stands won't change it. The important thing is to deal with things as they are, not as you'd like them to be which is why you need to get advice
You may not beleive it, but if you are unhappy, your kids have already picked up on this, as has your wife.
If you split amicably, then you will both be happier and so will your kids.
I agree with you that your kids happiness is more important than anything, but it is better being apat and happy than together and miserable.
Perhaps I should make something clearer: my wife is not a strong woman, or rather as long as everything ticks over as she wants it to in her own, rather limited, world, she functions and seems very strong. If anything out of the ordinary happens, if things don't follow the expected routine she is apt to go to pieces. She lacks confidence but overcomes that, as many do, by being dogmatic and utterly inflexible.
The trouble is she doesn't have - or doesn't seem to have - any insight at all. Perhaps some of you know what I mean. She is apt to stick her head in the ground like an ostrich to avoid possible trouble and difficulties.
But can I thank everyone for their views and comments, because it has given me something to think about, especially what some have had to say about how young people react to divorce or their parent's unhappy marriage.
And, if the choice was for the relationship to be based on more or less traditional gender roles before marriage, then you can't expect that to suddenly change after divorce. The court generally looks to maintain the status quo for the children.
Well, it's not the pertinent point, and my question to you is more academic than anything else, but as I said before, all other things being equal (i.e. no dependants) exactly why should the man be liable in a way a woman isn't? In our case, she would have a home, a very nice one, though not large, and I would have a house, very tiny, one I bought years ago, and then rented out when I had to move for work, and that was long before I met her.
I stress that she didn't give up anything for me. She didn't make or have to make any sacrifices. Yes, she would have to count her pennies more, but our joint household income is far less than that of other comparable households, e.g. those of my children's friends' parents, because they are both working for a reasonable wage, e.g. a household with two people earning £25,000 (total £50, 000) is better of by quite a bit, than one in which one earns, say £35,000 and the other just £3,000. But stress this response isn't about money, but about just how fair in this day and age it is that the guy still carries the can.
Did you stay at home and raise the children forfeiting a career or career enhancement?
Perhaps I should make something clearer: my wife is not a strong woman, or rather as long as everything ticks over as she wants it to in her own, rather limited, world, she functions and seems very strong. If anything out of the ordinary happens, if things don't follow the expected routine she is apt to go to pieces. She lacks confidence but overcomes that, as many do, by being dogmatic and utterly inflexible.
The trouble is she doesn't have - or doesn't seem to have - any insight at all. Perhaps some of you know what I mean. She is apt to stick her head in the ground like an ostrich to avoid possible trouble and difficulties.
But can I thank everyone for their views and comments, because it has given me something to think about, especially what some have had to say about how young people react to divorce or their parent's unhappy marriage.
oh yes I know exactly what you mean, it's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going lalala not listening
the thing is though, she isn't going to change and again being honest, her refusal or inability to discuss/deal with/manage issues is well going to be her problem
she'll have to because you won't be there to enable her not to dot it. generally i believe people only behave as badly or as stupidly or as ridiculously as they're allowed to get away with. she won't be able to get away with it anymore
it's nothing to do with gender and all to do with the circumstances of the individual marriage. I know cases where wives have had to pay maintenance to their husbands
also to be brutally honest getting angry about the system as it stands won't change it. The important thing is to deal with things as they are, not as you'd like them to be which is why you need to get advice
No, no, no, I'm not getting angry about the system or anything else. If anything I horribly frustrated that she and could potentially have a very pleasant marriage - we have a pleasant home in a pleasant part of Cornwall, two children we love and a lot more. It's just that at some point a switch was flicked. Off went the, probably quite unrealistic fantasy she had built up about me over the years (if what I'm told is true) and in came something entirely different.
In the early days I tried to get her to talk things over but she (and, and it has to be said, her family - I have discussed this with a brother-in-law who married her sister and a sister-in-law who married her brother) is in a way emotionally illiterate and would fob me off with 'not now' and 'another time'. They all find it almost impossible to show their feelings as though they had forgotten how to. It is very much like the ostrich sticking its head in the ground: the problem you can't see doesn't exist. The trouble is it now seems beyond redemption.
Look, right from the start I pointed out that these things are hugely subjective, and who's not to know that I am missing something quite vital? I don't think I am, but were I missing it, I wouldn't know, would I. I am trying to be honest, and posting here and getting some responses has been worthwhile. And I have tried NOT to somehow blacken her name. That's really wasn't and isn't the point of this post. I merely wanted some impartial advice and possibly a different perspective, and I must say I think I got some.
I must admit, if you've never really loved your wife, I do wonder if you're partly to blame for the state of your marriage. No one should have to live in a loveless marriage and you've imprisoned her as much as she's imprisoned you for the sake of the kids.
No, no, no, I'm not getting angry about the system or anything else. If anything I horribly frustrated that she and could potentially have a very pleasant marriage - we have a pleasant home in a pleasant part of Cornwall, two children we love and a lot more. It's just that at some point a switch was flicked. Off went the, probably quite unrealistic fantasy she had built up about me over the years (if what I'm told is true) and in came something entirely different.
In the early days I tried to get her to talk things over but she (and, and it has to be said, her family - I have discussed this with a brother-in-law who married her sister and a sister-in-law who married her brother) is in a way emotionally illiterate and would fob me off with 'not now' and 'another time'. They all find it almost impossible to show their feelings as though they had forgotten how to. It is very much like the ostrich sticking its head in the ground: the problem you can't see doesn't exist. The trouble is it now seems beyond redemption.
Look, right from the start I pointed out that these things are hugely subjective, and who's not to know that I am missing something quite vital? I don't think I am, but were I missing it, I wouldn't know, would I. I am trying to be honest, and posting here and getting some responses has been worthwhile. And I have tried NOT to somehow blacken her name. That's really wasn't and isn't the point of this post. I merely wanted some impartial advice and possibly a different perspective, and I must say I think I got some.
it all sounds really desperately sad for everyone concerned and as you say a waste
yyou just have to decide how much longer you're prepared to waste, and what you want to do underpinned with having a full understanding of what your legal situation is likely to be
Did you stay at home and raise the children forfeiting a career or career enhancement?
If not then that is why you have to pay.
As I said, my wife and I come from utterly different backgrounds and I got her pregnant. That's how it all started. There was never a career for her to consider. Her father and now her brother own and run a farm and she has always worked there (and really loves it. She has never, ever wanted to do anything else, and glamorous it ain't.) She is not intellectual who might have gone to college or anything. She left school at 16 with, I think two O levels, and started working on the farm immediately. I repeat: she loves it and when in her element - farming - is supremely confident.
She didn't work when our daughter was young and I was in London, but within a year or two she began to work again when I was at home and could look after our daughter and later also our son. I was always very hands on. Always.
I must admit, if you've never really loved your wife, I do wonder if you're partly to blame for the state of your marriage. No one should have to live in a loveless marriage and you've imprisoned her as much as she's imprisoned you for the sake of the kids.
Of course I'm partly to blame. Just imagine the dismay she probably felt when 'the dream came true, she got her man', but her man didn't feel about her as she fondly imagined. Don't you think that hasn't occurred to me and more than once? It's in such small ways that we can cause a great deal of unhappiness, often unwittingly.
There's also the fact that love can grow. But it doesn't grow if one is - once the bubble burst and she shut me out - continually belittled and criticised and told one is stupid. As it happens I have - or think I have - sufficient resilience to deal with that, though it can wear you away, bit by bit.
As I said earlier, in some ways her emotional response was almost that of a primary school child: there was no nuance (and if it makes sense - and I don't mean it nastily) 'nuance' is a word she wouldn't use in a million years. She's know what it means, but would never use it.
HOW do I look down on her? You have to explain that one.
On second thoughts, perhaps you have touched upon something to which I was blind.
Yes, you don't sound as if you have much respect for her, really, and a little bit contemptuous of her. All of us deserve some respect, although it's hard when things are going wrong.
Did/do you do most of the child care and household work?
Yes, I did when the children were young and I was at home. But oddly enough she doesn't like to see 'a man' do things. When I was growing up, my brother and I always had to do the washing-up, make our own beds etc. and for many years I found it really difficult NOT doing the washing-up, but she was adamant I couldn't. In fact, I tell her that she is being to easy on the children - their cousins across the way in the farm (we live just opposite where she grew up) have to do all kinds of household chores, but she won't let our children do any. Not once has either done the washing up or anything and in that respect they lead a life of Riley, and I rather suspect she is spoiling them for the future. They do have a very easy life in that respect.
OP, this thread could go on for another few days and you still wouldn't be the wiser until you actually get some qualified legal advice - outside the forum!
OP, this thread could go on for another few days and you still wouldn't be the wiser until you actually get some qualified legal advice - outside the forum!
Yes, that's true, but several responses have given me food for thought, especially a recent suggestions that subconsciously I look down on her and that she sense it. I rather think there's something in that, but it has never occurred to me till it was pointed out a few posts ago.
Comments
I have to disagree. I've worked in education for 18 years, children do pick up on atmospheres and feelings in the home. No matter how hard you try they notice little things and how different their friends parents act towards each other, they just accept it as normal for their home. As for when to divorce, there is no "best age", they will be upset at any age, it's how the patents deal with the "aftermath" that makes the transition easier or more difficult/upsetting.
You may not beleive it, but if you are unhappy, your kids have already picked up on this, as has your wife.
If you split amicably, then you will both be happier and so will your kids.
I agree with you that your kids happiness is more important than anything, but it is better being apat and happy than together and miserable.
it made mine and my brother`s life a complete misery and we both suffered at school for it.
the thing is though and I don't mean to be horrible but by that time you'll be in your early 70s and while I don't consider that massively old, it is old.
you have already wasted a lot of your younger years on this marriage
your children would still be part of your life plus they're not stupid. if the atmosphere at home is as you describe, are you sure its best for them to be brought up in it? I mean what lessons are they learning about marriage from it?
Well, it's not the pertinent point, and my question to you is more academic than anything else, but as I said before, all other things being equal (i.e. no dependants) exactly why should the man be liable in a way a woman isn't? In our case, she would have a home, a very nice one, though not large, and I would have a house, very tiny, one I bought years ago, and then rented out when I had to move for work, and that was long before I met her.
I stress that she didn't give up anything for me. She didn't make or have to make any sacrifices. Yes, she would have to count her pennies more, but our joint household income is far less than that of other comparable households, e.g. those of my children's friends' parents, because they are both working for a reasonable wage, e.g. a household with two people earning £25,000 (total £50, 000) is better of by quite a bit, than one in which one earns, say £35,000 and the other just £3,000. But stress this response isn't about money, but about just how fair in this day and age it is that the guy still carries the can.
A work colleague has just left her husband and she has to pay him maintanance.
it's nothing to do with gender and all to do with the circumstances of the individual marriage. I know cases where wives have had to pay maintenance to their husbands
also to be brutally honest getting angry about the system as it stands won't change it. The important thing is to deal with things as they are, not as you'd like them to be which is why you need to get advice
Divorce is usually about the person earning less getting money from the person earning more to be able to keep the lifestyle they are accustom to.
it is just that normally the male in the relationship earns more, which is why it tends to be the man paying the woman.
Perhaps I should make something clearer: my wife is not a strong woman, or rather as long as everything ticks over as she wants it to in her own, rather limited, world, she functions and seems very strong. If anything out of the ordinary happens, if things don't follow the expected routine she is apt to go to pieces. She lacks confidence but overcomes that, as many do, by being dogmatic and utterly inflexible.
The trouble is she doesn't have - or doesn't seem to have - any insight at all. Perhaps some of you know what I mean. She is apt to stick her head in the ground like an ostrich to avoid possible trouble and difficulties.
But can I thank everyone for their views and comments, because it has given me something to think about, especially what some have had to say about how young people react to divorce or their parent's unhappy marriage.
Did you stay at home and raise the children forfeiting a career or career enhancement?
If not then that is why you have to pay.
oh yes I know exactly what you mean, it's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going lalala not listening
the thing is though, she isn't going to change and again being honest, her refusal or inability to discuss/deal with/manage issues is well going to be her problem
she'll have to because you won't be there to enable her not to dot it. generally i believe people only behave as badly or as stupidly or as ridiculously as they're allowed to get away with. she won't be able to get away with it anymore
No, no, no, I'm not getting angry about the system or anything else. If anything I horribly frustrated that she and could potentially have a very pleasant marriage - we have a pleasant home in a pleasant part of Cornwall, two children we love and a lot more. It's just that at some point a switch was flicked. Off went the, probably quite unrealistic fantasy she had built up about me over the years (if what I'm told is true) and in came something entirely different.
In the early days I tried to get her to talk things over but she (and, and it has to be said, her family - I have discussed this with a brother-in-law who married her sister and a sister-in-law who married her brother) is in a way emotionally illiterate and would fob me off with 'not now' and 'another time'. They all find it almost impossible to show their feelings as though they had forgotten how to. It is very much like the ostrich sticking its head in the ground: the problem you can't see doesn't exist. The trouble is it now seems beyond redemption.
Look, right from the start I pointed out that these things are hugely subjective, and who's not to know that I am missing something quite vital? I don't think I am, but were I missing it, I wouldn't know, would I. I am trying to be honest, and posting here and getting some responses has been worthwhile. And I have tried NOT to somehow blacken her name. That's really wasn't and isn't the point of this post. I merely wanted some impartial advice and possibly a different perspective, and I must say I think I got some.
it all sounds really desperately sad for everyone concerned and as you say a waste
yyou just have to decide how much longer you're prepared to waste, and what you want to do underpinned with having a full understanding of what your legal situation is likely to be
good luck
As I said, my wife and I come from utterly different backgrounds and I got her pregnant. That's how it all started. There was never a career for her to consider. Her father and now her brother own and run a farm and she has always worked there (and really loves it. She has never, ever wanted to do anything else, and glamorous it ain't.) She is not intellectual who might have gone to college or anything. She left school at 16 with, I think two O levels, and started working on the farm immediately. I repeat: she loves it and when in her element - farming - is supremely confident.
She didn't work when our daughter was young and I was in London, but within a year or two she began to work again when I was at home and could look after our daughter and later also our son. I was always very hands on. Always.
Of course I'm partly to blame. Just imagine the dismay she probably felt when 'the dream came true, she got her man', but her man didn't feel about her as she fondly imagined. Don't you think that hasn't occurred to me and more than once? It's in such small ways that we can cause a great deal of unhappiness, often unwittingly.
There's also the fact that love can grow. But it doesn't grow if one is - once the bubble burst and she shut me out - continually belittled and criticised and told one is stupid. As it happens I have - or think I have - sufficient resilience to deal with that, though it can wear you away, bit by bit.
As I said earlier, in some ways her emotional response was almost that of a primary school child: there was no nuance (and if it makes sense - and I don't mean it nastily) 'nuance' is a word she wouldn't use in a million years. She's know what it means, but would never use it.
HOW do I look down on her? You have to explain that one.
On second thoughts, perhaps you have touched upon something to which I was blind.
For that matter a man seperating from another man can make such a claim, or a woman from a woman.
In this day and age it's not a male or female law, it's a spouse law.
Yes, I did when the children were young and I was at home. But oddly enough she doesn't like to see 'a man' do things. When I was growing up, my brother and I always had to do the washing-up, make our own beds etc. and for many years I found it really difficult NOT doing the washing-up, but she was adamant I couldn't. In fact, I tell her that she is being to easy on the children - their cousins across the way in the farm (we live just opposite where she grew up) have to do all kinds of household chores, but she won't let our children do any. Not once has either done the washing up or anything and in that respect they lead a life of Riley, and I rather suspect she is spoiling them for the future. They do have a very easy life in that respect.
Yes, that's true, but several responses have given me food for thought, especially a recent suggestions that subconsciously I look down on her and that she sense it. I rather think there's something in that, but it has never occurred to me till it was pointed out a few posts ago.