There's no chance he won't be banged up for the full 25 as long as the Judge has actually been following all the evidence (I do wonder sometimes)
You couldn't actually blame her for nodding off occasionally. Roger, for example, could be sold as an insomnia cure Forget listening to whale song .. listen to Roger talking about rocks
In the light of what has happened during the defence part so far I have changed my version of what happened.
I am even more convinced of OP's guilt now!
Oscar and Reeva have a late dinner and an argument breaks out starting sometime before 2am
The bedroom window is open from earlier in the evening
Estelle van der Merwe is woken at 1.56am by the noise of a fight.
It is hard to make out but she hears a woman's voice, but does not know where it is coming from
She tries and eventually gets back to sleep
At some time the bedroom door may have been damaged
At some point the arguing calmed down only to begin again later
Oscar picks up or threatens to pick up the cricket bat
Reeva starts to feel scared. She runs from the bedroom up the corridor to the bathroom
(Oscar may have argued with her in the bathroom and thrown her jeans out of the window)
She locks herself in the toilet.
The bathroom light is already on but the toilet is dark because the bulb in there is broken.
Oscar calms down, is apologetic and tries to talk her out.
Reeva will not unlock the door and Oscar becomes furious
Mrs Stipp has a bout of coughing which wakes her up
She looks at her clock which says 3.02. (Clock was fast - actual time about 2.58)
(She will look at her clock again at 3.17 actual time about 3.13)
The clock is now running and the defence must account for how OP used up this time an did not confirm to himself that he shot Reeva for another 15 minutes.
Oscar comes into the bathroom with the cricket bat. The light may already be on or he may now switch it on
He may or may not be on his prosthetics.
The damage shows the angle of the cricket bat in the door is consistent with being hit by a shorter person standing in a natural position
The damage is also consistent with a taller person leaning into the hit, putting their body weight into the blow to use maximum force.
After the defence case it is unlikely that this will be reliably decided.
Reeva sees the light go on, she may scream which is not heard due to the locked toilet or
does not scream so as not to escalate the situation.
Mr Stipp is woken by 3 loud bangs
Mrs Stipp is fully awake and hears 3 "gunshots" as OP hits the door with the cricket bat and moments after a woman screaming
Roux tries to make out that Mrs Stipp slept through the first "shot" by first lying to the court about her being "asleep" when cross examining Mr Stipp
She has line of sight to the bathroom window from her bed.
The "shots" are OP hitting the door breaking it. There are only 3 hits
Estelle van der Merwe does not hear these bangs, she is trying to sleep and may have a pillow over her head
The cricket bat has broken out a piece of the door along the weakest line of the joint at the right edge of the top inner panel
It runs almost the complete height of the panel and parts of it are the splinters lost from the door exhibit
Only the Stipps heard these "shots"
At this point OP may break away some other part of the panel. Now the panel is broken parts may be relatively easily lifted out
(Note: The toilet and bathroom windows are frosted. The toilet window is separate to and to the left of the bathroom window. The bathroom window has 3 sections, the left section was open. The
Stipps could see straight in through the open section where the bathroom light appeared bright)
Mrs Stipp see's the bathroom light on and light in the toilet almost as bright as behind the closed part of the bathroom window.
She described it as a "light on in the toilet"
Mr Stipp said he also saw light in the toilet but it was not as bright as in the bathroom window - it would certainly not have been as bright as the light from the open part of the bathroom window.
He did at one point say he didn't see a "light on" in the toilet as he thought it was not bright enough for this.
The Stipps saw the bathroom light through the hole in the toilet door.
If both Stipps saw light in the toilet/bathroom straight after the first sounds which OP said were only gunshots then OP must have been lying.
Roux had already told the court that OP said the toilet light was broken.
Reeva's screams could now be heard clearly through the hole and out through the open bathroom window (Stipp said the screams were clear and unmuffled)
Roux argued Monday 4 March, Session 3 at 28.00min in support of MB hearing OP screams that should be easy to hear through same open window at the distance
The Stipps go quickly to their small balcony, they hear a woman/female screaming.
They say the screams were "moments" after the shots.
At about 3.03 (2.59 actual time) "just after 3" the Bergers are woken by Reevas screams. (They did not hear the door being hit)
Mr Berger very roughly estimates there is 2 minutes before the cries of "help"
After 3/4 min the Stipps move to their big balcony for a better view
Mr Stipp goes in and spends some time during the following events calling:
Silverwood Security No answer
Called 10111 - not in service
Its is now about 3.05/3.06 (3.01/3.02 actual time)
Reeva screams help help help
Oscar shouts help, help, help mocking her. He may have been in the bedroom at this point as Mr Stipp said the helps were muffled.
The Bergers call security
There is continued screaming some of which may not have been heard as the witnesses were busy getting dressed/phoning
Oscar goes to get his gun.
Reeva can see out through the hole in the door and she knows Oscar is coming with the gun
Her screams intensify. Mrs Berger says "to a climax"
Mr Berger is on his balcony and hears the same
Mrs Stipp hears this as screams coming closer as if along the road
Whilst on the phone Mr Stipp hears only "2 /3 loud bangs". Thinks it is shooting
The Bergers hear shot....shot shot shot taking
The shots lasted 3.5 seconds with a longer approx 1.5 second pause between shot 1 and 2
Mrs Stipp hears a man screaming just before the shots, she cannot make out words then hears 3 shots.
Mrs Stipp has just looked at he clock. It says 3.17 (actual time 3.13)
For a short time it was together with the woman screaming. There was differences in the pitches at the same time.
Estelle van der Merwe and her husband both hear bang bang bang bang, her husband says they are gunshots
OP now angry beyond control has come into the bathroom
He raises his gun and fires four shots, moving towards the door and to the right as if to try to see Reeva through the long narrow vertical hole in the door
He may be on his stumps and firing with the gun raised to his eye although as he is moving this would seem odd
He is probably his prosthetics firing from the hip. He had a trapped easy target so as he was moving at the time this would seem more likely
The bullet holes are not tightly grouped and not consistent with double tapped shots.
The light has been on all the time so he can see clearly
After the first shot shatters her hip Reeva has about 1.5 seconds to fall back onto the magazine rack where a ricochet hits her
The next two shots hit her in the arm and head, She screamed as long as she could but it died away after the last shot.
The screams dying away after the last shot were heard by the Bergers and Mrs Stipp
Estelle van der Merwe describes silence after the shooting
When Mr Stipp goes back on the balcony and hears a man shouting "help" "help" "help"
Estelle van der Merwe heard a womans voice crying for help. Her husband said it was Oscar
Closer neighbours heard a man crying out and crying in pain
Security arrive and talk to the Stipps on their balcony
Mr Stipp again went to the other balcony and watches Security leave
Mr Stipp sees a light coloured figure moving from right to left through the bathroom window
Mrs Stipp initially reported the same but retracted this when she realised it was her husbands recollection.
She also "remembered" the event before the final shots not after. This was to be challenged during the defence part.
Mr Stipp said the bathroom and toilet lights did not change at any time
Mrs Stipp said the bathroom and toilet lights did not change at any time
Oscar with prosthetics now on, probably realising the terrible truth of what he had done, pulled out the rest of the panel, got the key opened the door and dragged her out.
It was as he was breaking down the rest of the panel that the bullet hole that Col Vermeulen pointed out caused a crack in the wood to deviate.
It was only 1 hole that showed this effect.
Oscar horrified at what he has done picks up Reeva and carries her downstairs where he is met by Security and later Dr Stipp.
Round of applause for porky.
I have been back and listened to the evidence in order to write it all out clearly.......you have saved me the trouble!
The next thing I was going to do was look at the timings of the phone calls because I want to work out how much time he had, before he carried Reeva downstairs, to concoct his story of the intruder.
The finer details I suspect were worked out with Carl after his arrest and before the bail hearing.
He has been very lucky that there has been confusion over the bat/gun noise, and I sincerely hope that Nel has bat first etched on his brain and he doesn't get away with it.
I just hope in his closing speech Nell is going to put it to m'lady.
Just watching Sky News round up of today - and they've made ol Dixon sound really intelligent, the way they've cut it all up following his testimony today - but they did leave in
memory is a fleeting thing ? (hope i've got that right) bit sloshed and sozzled !
porky - i'd love to reply to your post, but may take me a while to read it, it's bit long for my goldfish brain right now. You always speak sense, so it's my loss right now.
Just watching Sky News round up of today - and they've made ol Dixon sound really intelligent, the way they've cut it all up following his testimony today - but they did leave in
memory is a fleeting thing ? (hope i've got that right) bit sloshed and sozzled !
Just watching Sky catch up. When OP isn't covering his ears he is watching Dixon with absolute fury. Anyone else notice his thundering facial expression?
Just watching Sky catch up. When OP isn't covering his ears he is watching Dixon with absolute fury. Anyone else notice his thundering facial expression?
OP does it to Nel as well. I am sure OP does not realise why he is there >:(
And there are the lies >:(>:(>:(>:(>:( I hope Nel pulls him up on that.
well..........for the Defence , oh yes
oopsie, yes, they're showing Nel asking him why he'd come to Court ...........etc
the states case is Curtains were open, and Dixon didn't even take that into account - he doesn't have a tv at home and he doesn't buy newspapers or listen to radio BUT we do know he has TWITTER and FACEBOOK, so when he says he doesn't like to be influenced by external factors is cr*p !!! I think now they are making him look really bad, thought they chop it up so he sounded remotely intelligent.
FGS .. A woman told OP she loved him and he is her hero as he was going into court. What the hell is wrong with these idiots >:(
On the face of it some may say 'well OP may be right, it was an accident' etc.
However these freaks that are shaking his hand forget the crux of the matter. OP COULD have killed THEIR Brother, Dad, Son that night. OP couldn't give a toss who was in that toilet if his version is to be believed.
well..........for the Defence , oh yes
oopsie, yes, they're showing Nel asking him why he'd come to Court ...........etc
the states case is Curtains were open, and Dixon didn't even take that into account - he doesn't have a tv at home and he doesn't buy newspapers or listen to radio BUT we do know he has TWITTER and FACEBOOK, so when he says he doesn't like to be influenced by external factors is cr*p !!! I think now they are making him look really bad, thought they chop it up so he sounded remotely intelligent.
Jeremy Thompson, still going strong. :cool:
The Not following the case .. has to be brought up in May. No way can that be ignored.
Do you think it's past that point for them to prove what argument they has, but more about proving to M'lady that an argument was highly likely and probable knowing what their relationship and knowing oscars behaviour?
I have been back and listened to the evidence in order to write it all out clearly.......you have saved me the trouble!
The next thing I was going to do was look at the timings of the phone calls because I want to work out how much time he had, before he carried Reeva downstairs, to concoct his story of the intruder.
The finer details I suspect were worked out with Carl after his arrest and before the bail hearing.
He has been very lucky that there has been confusion over the bat/gun noise, and I sincerely hope that Nel has bat first etched on his brain and he doesn't get away with it.
I just hope in his closing speech Nell is going to put it to m'lady.
final shot just after 3am, Stipps and Baba turned up about 3.25am (Stipp called security at 3.17) --so few minutes to get to Oscars. When did Stander turn up with Silence-of-the-lambs--Clarice ? do we know when they got to Oscars ?
On the face of it some may say 'well OP may be right, it was an accident' etc.
However these freaks that are shaking his hand forget the crux of the matter. OP COULD have killed THEIR Brother, Dad, Son that night. OP couldn't give a toss who was in that toilet if his version is to be believed.
I honestly believe that the people who are showing him support outside the court are religious nuts who have fallen for his "I am a sinner seeking redemption" carp.
On the face of it some may say 'well OP may be right, it was an accident' etc.
However these freaks that are shaking his hand forget the crux of the matter. OP COULD have killed THEIR Brother, Dad, Son that night. OP couldn't give a toss who was in that toilet if his version is to be believed.
True. But they are mad ,,, imo
Exactly. That is what I cannot understand but no doubt they have the ... It will never happen to me and mine ... attitude >:(
If we still had the Rolls Eyes smiley ... it would have been worked to death on this thread :D
I honestly believe that the people who are showing him support outside the court are religious nuts who have fallen for his "I am a sinner seeking redemption" carp.
That's a good point as OP spouted God when he murdered Reeva.
I'd be worried too. Although, remember OP saying he never wants to hold a gun again? Or words to that effect. He will now feel very vulnerable when he is out and about, or indeed in his house!
Hands up who believes he'll stick to that? No .. me either.
Do you think it's past that point for them to prove what argument they has, but more about proving to M'lady that an argument was highly likely and probable knowing what their relationship and knowing oscars behaviour?
shame they can't do that. Can't 'prove' anything, because only witness is the liar accused. The circumstantial evidence will carry weight, because the forensics is..............well.........subjective.
You can't take away the fact that the witness neighbours heard two people, even before you start talking about the screams...........showing Reeva was awake before shots were heard, even if the witnesses heard bangs from Oscar's leg on the door, or bat, doesn't matter...........REEVA WAS AWAKE and she's dead and Oscar shot her, so it comes down to Oscar on the Stand, -= which is my belief that will be overriding factor for the Judge - Did she believe him ? or did she not ?
I honestly believe that the people who are showing him support outside the court are religious nuts who have fallen for his "I am a sinner seeking redemption" carp.
Comments
absolutely
like her mother said she must have been terrified in that bathroom
I feel the same way
what that poor girl went through and how brutally her life was taken away:(
she seemed a good person, helping her parents with money, talking to children about domestic violence etc...
You couldn't actually blame her for nodding off occasionally. Roger, for example, could be sold as an insomnia cure
He is indeed ....and anybody who says different is a liar .. with their pants on fire
Round of applause for porky.
I have been back and listened to the evidence in order to write it all out clearly.......you have saved me the trouble!
The next thing I was going to do was look at the timings of the phone calls because I want to work out how much time he had, before he carried Reeva downstairs, to concoct his story of the intruder.
The finer details I suspect were worked out with Carl after his arrest and before the bail hearing.
He has been very lucky that there has been confusion over the bat/gun noise, and I sincerely hope that Nel has bat first etched on his brain and he doesn't get away with it.
I just hope in his closing speech Nell is going to put it to m'lady.
Just watching Sky News round up of today - and they've made ol Dixon sound really intelligent, the way they've cut it all up following his testimony today - but they did leave in
memory is a fleeting thing ? (hope i've got that right) bit sloshed and sozzled !
I thought they made him sound really bad.
clueless
OP does it to Nel as well. I am sure OP does not realise why he is there >:(
And there are the lies >:(>:(>:(>:(>:( I hope Nel pulls him up on that.
well..........for the Defence , oh yes
oopsie, yes, they're showing Nel asking him why he'd come to Court ...........etc
the states case is Curtains were open, and Dixon didn't even take that into account - he doesn't have a tv at home and he doesn't buy newspapers or listen to radio BUT we do know he has TWITTER and FACEBOOK, so when he says he doesn't like to be influenced by external factors is cr*p !!! I think now they are making him look really bad, thought they chop it up so he sounded remotely intelligent.
Jeremy Thompson, still going strong. :cool:
She needs more than a wet fish across her chops. Mind you it does show what OP's fan are like
On the face of it some may say 'well OP may be right, it was an accident' etc.
However these freaks that are shaking his hand forget the crux of the matter. OP COULD have killed THEIR Brother, Dad, Son that night. OP couldn't give a toss who was in that toilet if his version is to be believed.
The Not following the case .. has to be brought up in May. No way can that be ignored.
Hope sexy Lew is on here tonight
final shot just after 3am, Stipps and Baba turned up about 3.25am (Stipp called security at 3.17) --so few minutes to get to Oscars. When did Stander turn up with Silence-of-the-lambs--Clarice ? do we know when they got to Oscars ?
I honestly believe that the people who are showing him support outside the court are religious nuts who have fallen for his "I am a sinner seeking redemption" carp.
True. But they are mad ,,, imo
Exactly. That is what I cannot understand but no doubt they have the ... It will never happen to me and mine ... attitude >:(
If we still had the Rolls Eyes smiley ... it would have been worked to death on this thread
My boyfriend is not on
That's a good point as OP spouted God when he murdered Reeva.
You can't take away the fact that the witness neighbours heard two people, even before you start talking about the screams...........showing Reeva was awake before shots were heard, even if the witnesses heard bangs from Oscar's leg on the door, or bat, doesn't matter...........REEVA WAS AWAKE and she's dead and Oscar shot her, so it comes down to Oscar on the Stand, -= which is my belief that will be overriding factor for the Judge - Did she believe him ? or did she not ?
nauseous :cool::D
no thunderbird man on Sky !! - perhaps he's off on Easter break
travesty , some woman,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, shame