Given that it is practised by people of many religions, principally in the Indian Sub-Continent, why do you assume it's a "Muslim thing".
Because I've yet to hear of women from any other religion being "forced" to marry someone they don't want to, in recent history. I know hindus and sikhs have "arranged marriages", but my understanding is that there is much more consensuality in these.
By all means link to some cases of forced marriages involving religions other than Islam. I'd genuinely be interested to read about them. They may happen - but I've not heard about them.
I despise this 'us against them' mentality. Is it not OK to say that the vast majority of muslims Brits in this country are decent, hardworking people who don't have any desire to turn it into some Middle Eastern style? Or according to some on here, would that just be 'politically correct' to suggest this?
There's an extremist problem within Islam but the vast majority of muslims are decent folk. I'm from a Muslim family and we haven't done anything wrong. Watch 'them' like a hawk? What does that even mean?
Decent, maybe. Hard-working, questionable. This was ten years ago, incidentally, during which time the Muslim population in the UK has pretty much doubled:
Muslim men of Pakistani and Bangladeshi background are disproportionately unemployed relative to other Asians, according to a Cabinet Office report commissioned by Tony Blair. Even after allowances for education and residential area, Pakistani Muslims are three times more likely to be jobless than Hindus are. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed than Indian Hindus are.
Downing Street commissioned the study from the Performance and Innovation Unit, whose brief was to come up with ways of improving the economic performance of ethnic minorities.
. . .
Hindus are four times less likely to be unemployed than Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims
What it says. It's an old British expression in common parlance.
I've absolutely no doubt you have done nothing wrong, but unless the extremist element in your community, who support such things as homophobia, oppression of women, forced marriages and violence against other Muslims and non Muslims, are watched and contained, then there is a danger they will gain a foothold in our society.
I take it that as a decent and law abiding Muslim, you are against the bits in bold above.
I don't consider myself to be part of any one 'community' really, above all I consider myself a UK citizen. And though I didn't mention it earlier in that post, I consider myself an agnostic these days. My family however are proud law abiding Muslims along with so many other Muslims here. Or am I just being naive and that the vast majority of Muslims have a secret agenda of turning the country into an Islamic state?
Well, let's look at this in a very basic way. Currently, there are Muslim extremists destroying cities and towns in, to name but a few, Iraq and Syria.
So if they end up controlling those countries, which appears to be the aim, are they going to rebuild what they razed to the ground?
If not, where does it end?
That question can be asked of any war.
The civil war in Iraq is about defining lines on a map.Iraq as it was will never be the same as it was, it will become a federal state or a collection of small independent countries, built along religious and ethnic grounds.
The opportunity for Isis to make such a dramatic gain in Iraq is due to the upheaval in Syria.
The catalyst would appear to be a government in Iraq that refused to govern for all it's people.
I don't consider myself to be part of any one 'community' really, above all I consider myself a UK citizen. And though I didn't mention it earlier in that post, I consider myself an agnostic these days. My family however are proud law abiding Muslims along with so many other Muslims here. Or am I just being naive and that the vast majority of Muslims have a secret agenda of turning the country into an Islamic state?
It's generally accepted that only a hardcore minority are involved.
What is your view of the minority in the Islamic community who support violence, homophobia, oppression of women and forced marriage ?
The civil war in Iraq is about defining lines on a map.Iraq as it was will never be the same as it was, it will become a federal state or a collection of small independent countries, built along religious and ethnic grounds.
The opportunity for Isis to make such a dramatic gain in Iraq is due to the upheaval in Syria.
The catalyst would appear to be a government in Iraq that refused to govern for all it's people.
So who rebuilds it? Or will those cities be ruins for ever?
WW2 ended 70 years ago. Can you tell now when you visit the bombed cities in England, France, Belgium, Germany, Holland etc that they were almost destroyed?
What do you reckon Homs or Fallujah will be like in 70 years?
So who rebuilds it? Or will those cities be ruins for ever?
WW2 ended 70 years ago. Can you tell now when you visit the bombed cities in England, France, Belgium, Germany, Holland etc that they were almost destroyed?
What do you reckon Homs or Fallujah will be like in 70 years?
I suppose the destroyed towns/villages and Cities, will be rebuilt if whoever wins wants to rebuild them, or they will remain piles of rubble until some thing different happens.
I suppose the destroyed towns/villages and Cities, will be rebuilt if whoever wins wants to rebuild them, or they will remain piles of rubble until some thing different happens.
Western contractors will make a fortune rebuilding them, for them to be shot to bits again when the next generation of squabblers inevitably kick off.
I suppose the destroyed towns/villages and Cities, will be rebuilt if whoever wins wants to rebuild them, or they will remain piles of rubble until some thing different happens.
Or, in other words, you have no idea. My point is, Muslim 'extremists' seem hellbent on destruction, with no apparent desire to put anything back together when they have achieved their objective.
So where does it end? In this country, for instance?
It's generally accepted that only a hardcore minority are involved.
What is your view of the minority in the Islamic community who support violence, homophobia, oppression of women and forced marriage ?
I denounce any form of oppression or violence, whether Muslim or not. My concern now is that the lines are being blurred for some people to attack the vast majority of muslims who supposedly support widespread oppression of women and so forth when they don't. I switch on the news every day and it's disheartening (not for myself) but for other ordinary muslims everywhere who are made to feel guilty by some people just because a minority of nutters are causing havoc.
I denounce any form of oppression or violence, whether Muslim or not. My concern now is that the lines are being blurred for some people to attack the vast majority of muslims who supposedly support widespread oppression of women and so forth when they don't. I switch on the news every day and it's disheartening (not for myself) but for other ordinary muslims everywhere who are made to feel guilty by some people just because a minority of nutters are causing havoc.
Thanks
I look forward to hearing more from your community speak out about the things I mentioned.
The danger is that the less intelligent elements in our society might not have the wit to separate one from t'other in their minds, unless a distinction is clearly apparent.
Or, in other words, you have no idea. My point is, Muslim 'extremists' seem hellbent on destruction, with no apparent desire to put anything back together when they have achieved their objective.
So where does it end? In this country, for instance?
No you are right, I do have no idea.
Extremists probably are hellbent on destruction, it seems to go hand in hand with being extreme.
I think extremism should be confronted wherever it is.
How do you stop it? - again I like most people have no idea.Where will it stop? - no one knows, it may never stop.
Decent, maybe. Hard-working, questionable. This was ten years ago, incidentally, during which time the Muslim population in the UK has pretty much doubled:
Muslim men of Pakistani and Bangladeshi background are disproportionately unemployed relative to other Asians, according to a Cabinet Office report commissioned by Tony Blair. Even after allowances for education and residential area, Pakistani Muslims are three times more likely to be jobless than Hindus are. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed than Indian Hindus are.
Downing Street commissioned the study from the Performance and Innovation Unit, whose brief was to come up with ways of improving the economic performance of ethnic minorities.
. . .
Hindus are four times less likely to be unemployed than Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims
Decent, maybe. Hard-working, questionable. This was ten years ago, incidentally, during which time the Muslim population in the UK has pretty much doubled:
Muslim men of Pakistani and Bangladeshi background are disproportionately unemployed relative to other Asians, according to a Cabinet Office report commissioned by Tony Blair. Even after allowances for education and residential area, Pakistani Muslims are three times more likely to be jobless than Hindus are. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed than Indian Hindus are.
Downing Street commissioned the study from the Performance and Innovation Unit, whose brief was to come up with ways of improving the economic performance of ethnic minorities.
. . .
Hindus are four times less likely to be unemployed than Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims
Or it could be proof of discrimination against Muslims - which would fuel extremism.
I meant not just in Iraq but the other places the OP mentioned, like Syria.
Anyway, the people trying to stop ISIS, they're fighting extremeist and they're Muslim are they not?
Just so they can implement their own oppressive regime on the people who don't agree with them. People should be allowed to not have to be Muslims or believe in anything they believe in.
They should stop trying to force the Koran on people. Look at the slaughter that is going on in the middle east, a large amount of it based on Islamic tendencies.
And when will other people learn that we in the West had all the types of problems the middle east had like 1500 years ago, but because we became prosperous, they were eradicated. People were regularly beheaded in the British isles many centuries ago.
It will take the middle east time, but look at Dubai, Abu Dhabi etc. Those countries are practically western havens now because of the wealth they achieved.
The same Dubai where women who are gang raped can be put in prison? Dubai and Abu Dhabi are cities anyhow, not countries. Saudi is also very wealthy yet has some of the worst human rights on earth.
Comments
Because I've yet to hear of women from any other religion being "forced" to marry someone they don't want to, in recent history. I know hindus and sikhs have "arranged marriages", but my understanding is that there is much more consensuality in these.
By all means link to some cases of forced marriages involving religions other than Islam. I'd genuinely be interested to read about them. They may happen - but I've not heard about them.
Decent, maybe. Hard-working, questionable. This was ten years ago, incidentally, during which time the Muslim population in the UK has pretty much doubled:
Muslim men of Pakistani and Bangladeshi background are disproportionately unemployed relative to other Asians, according to a Cabinet Office report commissioned by Tony Blair. Even after allowances for education and residential area, Pakistani Muslims are three times more likely to be jobless than Hindus are. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed than Indian Hindus are.
Downing Street commissioned the study from the Performance and Innovation Unit, whose brief was to come up with ways of improving the economic performance of ethnic minorities.
. . .
Hindus are four times less likely to be unemployed than Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims
Oh, you're right there, Ted. Like complaining about any posts that hit a raw nerve, for instance.
I don't consider myself to be part of any one 'community' really, above all I consider myself a UK citizen. And though I didn't mention it earlier in that post, I consider myself an agnostic these days. My family however are proud law abiding Muslims along with so many other Muslims here. Or am I just being naive and that the vast majority of Muslims have a secret agenda of turning the country into an Islamic state?
The civil war in Iraq is about defining lines on a map.Iraq as it was will never be the same as it was, it will become a federal state or a collection of small independent countries, built along religious and ethnic grounds.
The opportunity for Isis to make such a dramatic gain in Iraq is due to the upheaval in Syria.
The catalyst would appear to be a government in Iraq that refused to govern for all it's people.
It's generally accepted that only a hardcore minority are involved.
What is your view of the minority in the Islamic community who support violence, homophobia, oppression of women and forced marriage ?
So who rebuilds it? Or will those cities be ruins for ever?
WW2 ended 70 years ago. Can you tell now when you visit the bombed cities in England, France, Belgium, Germany, Holland etc that they were almost destroyed?
What do you reckon Homs or Fallujah will be like in 70 years?
Depends what your definition of a 'minority' is. 5%? 10%?
Western contractors will make a fortune rebuilding them, for them to be shot to bits again when the next generation of squabblers inevitably kick off.
Or, in other words, you have no idea. My point is, Muslim 'extremists' seem hellbent on destruction, with no apparent desire to put anything back together when they have achieved their objective.
So where does it end? In this country, for instance?
I suppose technically, anything below 50% is a minority.
A minority of whatever percentage definitely exists though. I'd personally put it in single figures.
I denounce any form of oppression or violence, whether Muslim or not. My concern now is that the lines are being blurred for some people to attack the vast majority of muslims who supposedly support widespread oppression of women and so forth when they don't. I switch on the news every day and it's disheartening (not for myself) but for other ordinary muslims everywhere who are made to feel guilty by some people just because a minority of nutters are causing havoc.
Ok, 9% then? So, out of a Muslim population of 3 million in the UK, that's only 270,000. Phew. Nothing to worry about then.
Thanks
I look forward to hearing more from your community speak out about the things I mentioned.
The danger is that the less intelligent elements in our society might not have the wit to separate one from t'other in their minds, unless a distinction is clearly apparent.
A mere bagatelle :kitty:
Extremists probably are hellbent on destruction, it seems to go hand in hand with being extreme.
I think extremism should be confronted wherever it is.
How do you stop it? - again I like most people have no idea.Where will it stop? - no one knows, it may never stop.
This relates to a report from February 2002.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/feb/20/race.immigrationpolicy
That's 12+ years ago. The situation may well be different now; indeed, I'm pretty sure it is.
Indeed. I read the other day that half the Muslim males in this country and three quarters of the females are unemployed.
Or maybe, just maybe, it could be the truth. Or are you overrun with Muslim builders, plumbers, decorators etc in your neck of the woods?
They should stop trying to force the Koran on people. Look at the slaughter that is going on in the middle east, a large amount of it based on Islamic tendencies.
They all work in shops and petrol stations round here. Muslims are generally traders, not tradesmen in my experience.
The same Dubai where women who are gang raped can be put in prison? Dubai and Abu Dhabi are cities anyhow, not countries. Saudi is also very wealthy yet has some of the worst human rights on earth.