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"We are more than a star on someone else's flag"
radio4extracrap
Posts: 2,933 Forum Member
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Mark Reckless said it all, really.
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radio4extracrap
Posts: 2,933 radio4extracrap
Posts: 2,933 radio4extracrap
Posts: 2,933
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It's gone, a distant memory of a time long gone by.
Britannia no longer rules the waves.
We don't even own ourself anymore, let alone half the world and the gates of our enemies.
We leave the EU and we'll be the laughing stock, the dead man, the lone wolf, the black sheep, the butt of the continent of Europe.
Germany, France, Spain, Benelux, Italy, Ireland, etc etc are also stars on the EU flag.
Do they want their independence back? Do they want to be restored to some former glory?
What are the actual benefits of leaving the EU? Surely they pale into insignificance compared to the benefits of staying in?
What are the benefits of being independent? World trade? The Commonwealth? Border controls? Saving on fees?
What is UKIP's actual problem with the EU?
Why are they so Europhobic/Xenophobic?
We are all equal. So what makes the (English) UK think it's so different & special?
Who do these people think they are?
Most of the problems in this country are caused by the government(s), establishment/authorities, land/wealth-owners, Tories, bigots, monopolies/corporations & general people of THIS country, not by Europe, EU legislation or immigrants. Sure, the World Bank/Government, IMF, Bilderbergs/Rothschilds/Illuminati/NWO, Satan, or whatever might well be responsible for the rest of the woes....
Plenty of Europeans aren't happy with the current state of affairs,
so it's time for positive negotiations, and to move forwards, not backwards.
UKIP is NOT a protest vote against the establishment.
If they do get into a coalition in 2015, they'll end up being just another LibDems in 5 years time.
A. Europhile :--)
Fortunately and thankfully, INCORRECT.
No, it really isn't.
UKIP is incorrect.
HUGELY incorrect and VERY foolish!
Mark my words :--)
Reckless by name & nature.
Europe is wonderful, and so are many of its peoples.
The continent of Europe isn't the problem which the Europhiles are trying to mix in with the EU "if you hate the EU, you hate Europe" crap. Exactly the same as trying to control your border is 'Racist'.
Well whether people like it or not, UKIP is on the rise. People said they had no chance at the Euro elections until it seemed like they'd do well, nevermind win the damn thing. People said they'd not get close to winning any seats, they've close close second all over the country. And finally, people said they wouldn't get a seat in Westminster........please hold.
The world is our future - the bankrupt EU is the past.
China, Brazil, India, Malaysia and Singapore are our future - not Greece, Slovakia and Croatia.
That's the thing you dont get!
Yes, I get all that.
If UKIP and 'similar' European parties could broker a deal and renegotiate the terms, then fine. But they can't/won't.
I personally believe that leaving the EU is not a solution to the current problems and will only make matters even worse.
But like you said. We shall see....
Personally, I would love it if UKIP could knock one of Tory or Labour into 3rd spot,
because those 2 parties are certainly part of the problem....
Preferably Tories, who I loathe with a passion... but let's face it, one of those 2 parties are still going to win in 2015, right?
The chances of my party (i.e. Greens - the true protest vote) actually ever winning, or even getting into a coalition, still remain highly grim though :--(
I blame the BBC for giving UKIP a voice instead of the Greens
@MARTYM8
We already trade with all those countries....just not enough...
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7011/economics/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries/
http://www.economywatch.com/world_economy/united-kingdom/export-import.html
With his squeaky voice, that would have been the end of his career a few months earlier than expected.
EXACTLY. Britain - coal, gas, oil, steel, fish, excellent farm produce, the commonwealth and Europe on our doorstep to trade with. Britain does not need the EU and its hooters' in the trough brigade.
You have a point, UKIP has just become an acceptable way to be a racist and say its because you dont like Europe poking their nose into UK business!
Other countries all have those products/commodities, and far more in abundance than us.
Coal? Thatcher shut down the mines.
Gas & oil? We've not even got enough for ourselves.
British Steel? Oh yeah, I remember that....
Fish & farm produce... what makes ours any better than anyone else's?
Cars (eco-friendly), technology, appliances, furniture, clothing, software....
We are a million miles behind Germany, Japan, SE Asia, USA, etc etc.
We were once so far ahead, but not any more.
This is where (part of) the root of the problem lies... at home!
We've been usurped, exploited & sold down the river
That's a very sensible economic choice.
Hahaha
Why the fuss about Europe when America bought us out years ago
No mentioning of mass manufacturing I notice.
And if Europe plays hardball about allowing a non-EU UK to be used as an offshore financial services base, (as I would in their circumstances); were f***ed.
Yes, a pity. Still car assembly doing well. However not enough.
It's you that doesn't get it, they'll either be self sufficent or be dependent on China, a UK outside of the EU will look very isolated ans irrelevant.
Japan etc bases itself in the UK because we are part of the EU. If we leave the EU, they relocate manufacturing to the low labour cost, low transport cost centre of their European market, eastern Europe
Rubbish - Ford moved production of the Transit for the European market from a country within the EU (UK) to one outside (Turkey) - there are more cost implications than simply being within the EU for manufacturing companies.
Yes they were moving to a low wage economy. The UK could only compete outside europe if it pays Turkish level wages, ie about half that of the UK. But then again that may be your economic wet dream.
It's not really rubbish...
I work for a Belgian-owned company (ex USA-owned) who have offices in Belgium, France, USA and soon to be Spain & Germany.
They're holding off on a UK/London base until after the result of the next election and potential EU referendum.
They say if UK leaves the EU then they'll need to renegotiate passport, employment, work, wages statutes/status/everything. They also say that many companies have stated that they will pull out of the UK, and potentially millions of people will lose their jobs in UK & Europe & beyond.
If UKIP really thinks that Europe (and some countries beyond) will still embrace the UK with open arms if we pull out of the EU, they've got another thing coming.
I don't think they really believe that at all. I think they're a set of con artists, who will lead the UK to doom and destruction...not that we aren't already on that path anyway....
We are the gateway to Europe for many countries, and that gate will become closed... at least for a few years until everything is renegotiated, and then however long it takes to get re-established afterwards.
Alas, partly thanks to Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown & Cameron, we don't have much in the line of bargaining chips any more.
Car assembly says it all
Parts imported from Germany and assembled here because in a downturn it's much easier to hire and fire workers than the Continent.