Repeating what Igloo_Man was saying up thread, I think the following should be no brainers for BT should they get first pick:
15 Stoke v Man City
16 Aston Villa v Arsenal
20 West Ham v Liverpool
26 Sunderland v Man Utd
BT will be eyeing up Man City v Leicester as a fourth pick in Week 25, but then Sky might like the look of that too.
I'd expect Sky to pass Week 29 (Spurs v Arsenal) and if BT were to take it that would allow Sky to pass Week 32 (Liverpool v Spurs). But BT could decline Spurs v Arsenal and take Swansea v Norwich to fill those quotas and then take Liverpool v Spurs.
Liverpool v Spurs might not be as big a fixtures as Spurs v Arsenal, but BT had both last season and the former rated better than the latter - albeit in different time slots. The point is, Liverpool rate better than Arsenal and I'd have thought BT would rather get Liverpool closer to maxing out than Arsenal. And if BT can tick off the min quotas, they can focus on getting the big teams with their fourth picks.
On a tangent next year, I think will see some significant changes pre cl weeks. Most have a Monday game but next year I'd expect more Fri night games pre cl.
A major unanswered question regarding Fri night games is how things work when we're coming out of an international break. Although there are one or two leagues around Europe which allow a Fri night game after internationals, I wouldn't expect the PL to allow it. This could lead to trouble for Sky...
All four of the rounds this season which are preceded by international breaks are followed by a CL midweek. So it could be that on those occasions Sky can't actually make the most of the extra timeslot to show an extra CL team.
I make it that Sky have 15 quotas left to fill. A few notable things - Chelsea have been picked in the Saturday 17:30 four times in the first 14 weeks. I reckon that their game at Newcastle in Week 7 is a Package F game with Newcastle's min quota in Package B being filled by the Tyne-Wear Derby in Week 10. In turn that requires the Crystal Palace v Watford game at Sunday 16:00 in Week 7 to be a third pick in Package C which only acts as a quota filler for Watford rather than both teams if it were in Package D.
The other thing that looks a little odd is West Brom. In addition to their two Monday night games (Package E) they've had two Sunday games (13:30 v Chelsea in Week 3 and 14:05 v West Ham in Week 14). You'd think that one would be Package B and one would be Package C. It seems unlikely to me that the Chelsea game would be in Package B as that would put Chelsea on to four picks , but for the West Ham game to be in Package B it would require the Leicester v Man Utd game to be in Package F, which seems unlikely to me as that would mean only one of Leicester's quotas being filled after 14 weeks.
To the casual reader this post probably makes no sense whatsoever! But I've got my selections in front of me and can follow!
The overload of Chelsea at Sat 17:30 does seem unusual. There are almost certainly some anomalies in there. For instance I suspect that Chelsea-Southampton (Sun 12:00, R8) is actually in Package E - the Mon 20:00 slot is unavailable due to the international break and Sky may have been allowed to use an alternate slot instead.
Incidentally I've also got Sky needing 15 more min quotas!
A major unanswered question regarding Fri night games is how things work when we're coming out of an international break. Although there are one or two leagues around Europe which allow a Fri night game after internationals, I wouldn't expect the PL to allow it. This could lead to trouble for Sky...
All four of the rounds this season which are preceded by international breaks are followed by a CL midweek. So it could be that on those occasions Sky can't actually make the most of the extra timeslot to show an extra CL team.
To the casual reader this post probably makes no sense whatsoever! But I've got my selections in front of me and can follow!
The overload of Chelsea at Sat 17:30 does seem unusual. There are almost certainly some anomalies in there. For instance I suspect that Chelsea-Southampton (Sun 12:00, R8) is actually in Package E - the Mon 20:00 slot is unavailable due to the international break and Sky may have been allowed to use an alternate slot instead.
Incidentally I've also got Sky needing 15 more min quotas!
BIB above - I can't see that's going to be a major issue as the package only allows "up to 10 Friday night games", therefore with 38 rounds plenty of week;s to spread those 10 games around.
Repeating what Igloo_Man was saying up thread, I think the following should be no brainers for BT should they get first pick:
15 Stoke v Man City
16 Aston Villa v Arsenal
20 West Ham v Liverpool
26 Sunderland v Man Utd
BT will be eyeing up Man City v Leicester as a fourth pick in Week 25, but then Sky might like the look of that too.
I'd expect Sky to pass Week 29 (Spurs v Arsenal) and if BT were to take it that would allow Sky to pass Week 32 (Liverpool v Spurs). But BT could decline Spurs v Arsenal and take Swansea v Norwich to fill those quotas and then take Liverpool v Spurs.
Liverpool v Spurs might not be as big a fixtures as Spurs v Arsenal, but BT had both last season and the former rated better than the latter - albeit in different time slots. The point is, Liverpool rate better than Arsenal and I'd have thought BT would rather get Liverpool closer to maxing out than Arsenal. And if BT can tick off the min quotas, they can focus on getting the big teams with their fourth picks.
Another consideration for BT may be the fact that Liverpool-Tottenham is into April. Therefore the stakes could be that bit higher. In their first two seasons BT haven't really had any meaningful games in April and May, so this could represent that opportunity.
BIB above - I can't see that's going to be a major issue as the package only allows "up to 10 Friday night games", therefore with 38 rounds plenty of week;s to spread those 10 games around.
Of course, but the real value of the package for Sky lies with the fact that it is suitable for CL teams prior to a CL round. Right now a CL team can only be shown in two slots (Sat 12:45 and Sat 17:30) prior to a CL round*, of which Sky only own one. The Fri 19:45 slot creates a second option for Sky which may allow them to pick more favourable games.
But the international breaks could prove a block on occasion.
(*) This constraint only seems to be exercised fully in the group stages - for the knockout rounds there tend to be permutations given in the case of clubs progressing.
Of course, but the real value of the package for Sky lies with the fact that it is suitable for CL teams prior to a CL round. Right now a CL team can only be shown in two slots (Sat 12:45 and Sat 17:30) prior to a CL round*, of which Sky only own one. The Fri 19:45 slot creates a second option for Sky which may allow them to pick more favourable games.
But the international breaks could prove a block on occasion.
(*) This constraint only seems to be exercised fully in the group stages - for the knockout rounds there tend to be permutations given in the case of clubs progressing.
See what you're saying. However it's Sky remember, they do what they want & as they no longer have the CL package will they be that bothered about "helping" a team have an extra days rest i wonder.
Wouldn't be a total surprise if the 1st game of the 16/17 season was indeed a friday night game.
To the casual reader this post probably makes no sense whatsoever! But I've got my selections in front of me and can follow!
The overload of Chelsea at Sat 17:30 does seem unusual. There are almost certainly some anomalies in there. For instance I suspect that Chelsea-Southampton (Sun 12:00, R8) is actually in Package E - the Mon 20:00 slot is unavailable due to the international break and Sky may have been allowed to use an alternate slot instead.
Incidentally I've also got Sky needing 15 more min quotas!
I've kept the Chelsea games with Swansea, Southampton and Stoke as being in Package B as they fill their min quotas - but any one of those could be an F game. But you could be right - it's the sort of thing we'd never get to find out about.
Of course, but the real value of the package for Sky lies with the fact that it is suitable for CL teams prior to a CL round. Right now a CL team can only be shown in two slots (Sat 12:45 and Sat 17:30) prior to a CL round*, of which Sky only own one. The Fri 19:45 slot creates a second option for Sky which may allow them to pick more favourable games.
But the international breaks could prove a block on occasion.
(*) This constraint only seems to be exercised fully in the group stages - for the knockout rounds there tend to be permutations given in the case of clubs progressing.
I hadn't thought about this issue before. The other weeks preceding the Champions League are themselves preceded by the League Cup. I suspect Sky will be able to use the Friday slot after the international weeks - expect lots of moaning from managers!
See what you're saying. However it's Sky remember, they do what they want & as they no longer have the CL package will they be that bothered about "helping" a team have an extra days rest i wonder.
That's not the point thought. Sky cannot schedule games involving Champions League teams for the Sunday prior to a European week. The Friday slot isn't about helping Champions League teams, it's about helping the broadcaster.
Looking at the offer in place for fans of Manchester United, the single biggest football ‘draw’ in the country in the opening half of the season, August - December
Sky Sports subscribers (without BT broadband)
7 Premier League games
Minimum monthly commitment of £45.50 Total = £227.50, or £32.50 per match
BT Broadband customer with Now TV box:
3 Premier League games
8 Champions League games (including qualifiers)
Minimum monthly commitment of £5.00
Sub-total = £25.00 or £2.27 per patch
Now TV Sports pass £6.99 for 7 Sky games = £48.93 Total = £73.93, or £6.72 per game
Sky Sports subscriber: 7 matches for £227.50
BT Sport subscriber + Now TV pass: 18 matches for £73.93
Of course Sky customers can add all the games BT have for £19.99 per month, or £99.95 for the period bringing the total expenditure for them to £327.45, still nearly 4 and a half times what BT Broadband customers will pay for the same match.
Anyone who doesn’t think this is a serious problem for Sky have their head in the sand
Looking at the offer in place for fans of Manchester United, the single biggest football ‘draw’ in the country in the opening half of the season, August - December
Sky Sports subscribers (without BT broadband)
7 Premier League games
Minimum monthly commitment of £45.50 Total = £227.50, or £32.50 per match
BT Broadband customer with Now TV box:
3 Premier League games
8 Champions League games (including qualifiers)
Minimum monthly commitment of £5.00
Sub-total = £25.00 or £2.27 per patch
Now TV Sports pass £6.99 for 7 Sky games = £48.93 Total = £73.93, or £6.72 per game
Sky Sports subscriber: 7 matches for £227.50
BT Sport subscriber + Now TV pass: 18 matches for £73.93
Of course Sky customers can add all the games BT have for £19.99 per month, or £99.95 for the period bringing the total expenditure for them to £327.45, still nearly 4 and a half times what BT Broadband customers will pay for the same match.
Anyone who doesn’t think this is a serious problem for Sky have their head in the sand
You're presuming Man Utd win the qualifiers. Sky have 7 guaranteed games plus their biggest league games (City, Liverpool, Arsenal) virtually guaranteed. The CL doesn't get interesting until the QFs apart from the odd big match in groups.
You're presuming Man Utd win the qualifiers. Sky have 7 guaranteed games plus their biggest league games (City, Liverpool, Arsenal) virtually guaranteed. The CL doesn't get interesting until the QFs apart from the odd big match in groups.
It's not exactly an outlandish assumption.
Fans of the big clubs will want to watch the games they won't think "things don't get interesting until the QFs" and think it's fine to pay best over £200 to not watch the games.
Sky: 6 league games
BT: 4 league games + 6 Champions League games
Sky Customers: £227.50 for 6 games league games + £99.95 to access BT games = £327.45
BT Customers: £25.00 for 6 Champions League games and 4 league games + £6.99 Now TV pass X 6 for Sky's leauge games (£41.94) = £66.94
Meaning that to see their 16 televised games
Sky Customers = £327.45
BT Customers = £66.94
To see the SAME number of Chelsea matches from August- December.
EDIT: A BT customer could purchase 5 X £31.99 monthly Now TV sports pass and get ALL games televised league and CL games on Sky and BT for £184.95 for the 5 month period.
For full season:
BT
10 X £31.99 Now TV pass = £319.90
10 X £5.00 BT cost = £50.00
Total = £369.99
Sky
10 X £42.50 Sky sports sub = £425.00
10 X £19.99 BT sports sub - £199.90
Total = £624.90
BT £254.91 cheaper than Sky plus you get more additional football extras: La Liga, Bundesliga, etc.
Sky: 6 league games
BT: 4 league games + 6 Champions League games
Sky Customers: £227.50 for 6 games league games + £99.95 to access BT games = £327.45
BT Customers: £25.00 for 6 Champions League games and 4 league games + £6.99 Now TV pass X 6 for Sky's leauge games (£41.94) = £66.94
Meaning that to see their 16 televised games
Sky Customers = £327.45
BT Customers = £66.94
To see the SAME number of Chelsea matches from August- December.
EDIT: A BT customer could purchase 5 X £31.99 monthly Now TV sports pass and get ALL games televised league and CL games on Sky and BT for £184.95 for the 5 month period.
For full season:
BT
10 X £31.99 Now TV pass = £319.90
10 X £5.00 BT cost = £50.00
Total = £369.99
Sky
10 X £42.50 Sky sports sub = £425.00
10 X £19.99 BT sports sub - £199.90
Total = £624.90
BT £254.91 cheaper than Sky plus you get more additional football extras: La Liga, Bundesliga, etc.
So we are on Sky 5 times and not on BT once. Can I get the required Sports channels on BT's own platform? And if so at what price?
NowTV day pass at £6.99 a time? You can add Sky Sports 1 & 2 to BT TV for about £22pm, but Sky kindly put some League matches on Sky Sports 5 which I don't think you can get anywhere but with Sky.
As for cost, it all depends on what football matches you want - for me for example as a Portsmouth and Hamburg SV supporter, the cheapest way for me would be BT broadband with BT TV and Sports, and a NowTV day pass for the rare times Pompey will be on Sky.
Currently its around £38pm for line rental, BT fibre unlimited broadband, new box with PVR, some premium TV channels (Fox, History, Gold, Discovery etc), all BT Sports channels and free HD for a year, plus £6.99 everytime Pompey are on Sky. It's only reallly expensive for football if you must have all PL, CL and FL football, if you can live without some of it, and just cherry pick certain matches you fancy you can save a fair amount.
Compare that to Sky's price of £85pm for line rental, normal unlimited BB, all Sky Sports channels and HD plus another £23pm for BT Sports in HD on the Sky box - granted you will get a few more premium channels with Sky like Sky One, Two, Atlantic, Living etc but whether thats worth £60+ pm extra is up to you, personnaly I'd rather save the money and buy the blu-ray boxsets.
Unfortunately I can't take BT's offer atm as I have Sky Sports on discount till October, and the line rental and broadband is on a 12 month contract till March, but even with the current discount it's still £10 a month more than if I could take the BT offer for a lot less football - so to keep me Sky will have to give me a new offer that betters the last one, as I can live without the Premier League and Football League quite happily as I normally only watch a match featuring a team I don't follow if it's there to watch, but I don't put myself out to watch them.
What about every F1 race, and also the England cricket matches, as well as the Premier League?
What about them? This is a football thread, although granted if you like those things it may be worth paying an extra 60 quid+ for Sky per month, myself I don't really care about the other sports, I'll watch them if available, but I'm not bothered enough about them to pay to watch them.
What about them? This is a football thread, although granted if you like those things it may be worth paying an extra 60 quid+ for Sky per month, myself I don't really care about the other sports, I'll watch them if available, but I'm not bothered enough about them to pay to watch them.
No Idea as I have Sky and not BT at present, but you can get Sky Sports 1 & 2 on BT, and might be able to get them with a day pass on NowTV*. I guess it all depends on which channels Sky decide to show things.
*Just looked and all 7 Sky Sports channels are on NowTV with a choice of day (£6.99), week (£10.99) or monthly (£31.99) passes.
Newcastle and Sunderland fans have been dealt a nice deal with one of the train companies, particularly regarding being able to change tickets without charge if a game is moved for TV purposes (often one of the bugbears on the thread)
Comments
15 Stoke v Man City
16 Aston Villa v Arsenal
20 West Ham v Liverpool
26 Sunderland v Man Utd
BT will be eyeing up Man City v Leicester as a fourth pick in Week 25, but then Sky might like the look of that too.
I'd expect Sky to pass Week 29 (Spurs v Arsenal) and if BT were to take it that would allow Sky to pass Week 32 (Liverpool v Spurs). But BT could decline Spurs v Arsenal and take Swansea v Norwich to fill those quotas and then take Liverpool v Spurs.
Liverpool v Spurs might not be as big a fixtures as Spurs v Arsenal, but BT had both last season and the former rated better than the latter - albeit in different time slots. The point is, Liverpool rate better than Arsenal and I'd have thought BT would rather get Liverpool closer to maxing out than Arsenal. And if BT can tick off the min quotas, they can focus on getting the big teams with their fourth picks.
A major unanswered question regarding Fri night games is how things work when we're coming out of an international break. Although there are one or two leagues around Europe which allow a Fri night game after internationals, I wouldn't expect the PL to allow it. This could lead to trouble for Sky...
All four of the rounds this season which are preceded by international breaks are followed by a CL midweek. So it could be that on those occasions Sky can't actually make the most of the extra timeslot to show an extra CL team.
To the casual reader this post probably makes no sense whatsoever! But I've got my selections in front of me and can follow!
The overload of Chelsea at Sat 17:30 does seem unusual. There are almost certainly some anomalies in there. For instance I suspect that Chelsea-Southampton (Sun 12:00, R8) is actually in Package E - the Mon 20:00 slot is unavailable due to the international break and Sky may have been allowed to use an alternate slot instead.
Incidentally I've also got Sky needing 15 more min quotas!
BIB above - I can't see that's going to be a major issue as the package only allows "up to 10 Friday night games", therefore with 38 rounds plenty of week;s to spread those 10 games around.
Another consideration for BT may be the fact that Liverpool-Tottenham is into April. Therefore the stakes could be that bit higher. In their first two seasons BT haven't really had any meaningful games in April and May, so this could represent that opportunity.
Of course, but the real value of the package for Sky lies with the fact that it is suitable for CL teams prior to a CL round. Right now a CL team can only be shown in two slots (Sat 12:45 and Sat 17:30) prior to a CL round*, of which Sky only own one. The Fri 19:45 slot creates a second option for Sky which may allow them to pick more favourable games.
But the international breaks could prove a block on occasion.
(*) This constraint only seems to be exercised fully in the group stages - for the knockout rounds there tend to be permutations given in the case of clubs progressing.
See what you're saying. However it's Sky remember, they do what they want & as they no longer have the CL package will they be that bothered about "helping" a team have an extra days rest i wonder.
Wouldn't be a total surprise if the 1st game of the 16/17 season was indeed a friday night game.
I've kept the Chelsea games with Swansea, Southampton and Stoke as being in Package B as they fill their min quotas - but any one of those could be an F game. But you could be right - it's the sort of thing we'd never get to find out about.
I hadn't thought about this issue before. The other weeks preceding the Champions League are themselves preceded by the League Cup. I suspect Sky will be able to use the Friday slot after the international weeks - expect lots of moaning from managers!
That's not the point thought. Sky cannot schedule games involving Champions League teams for the Sunday prior to a European week. The Friday slot isn't about helping Champions League teams, it's about helping the broadcaster.
Sky Sports subscribers (without BT broadband)
7 Premier League games
Minimum monthly commitment of £45.50
Total = £227.50, or £32.50 per match
BT Broadband customer with Now TV box:
3 Premier League games
8 Champions League games (including qualifiers)
Minimum monthly commitment of £5.00
Sub-total = £25.00 or £2.27 per patch
Now TV Sports pass £6.99 for 7 Sky games = £48.93
Total = £73.93, or £6.72 per game
Sky Sports subscriber: 7 matches for £227.50
BT Sport subscriber + Now TV pass: 18 matches for £73.93
Of course Sky customers can add all the games BT have for £19.99 per month, or £99.95 for the period bringing the total expenditure for them to £327.45, still nearly 4 and a half times what BT Broadband customers will pay for the same match.
Anyone who doesn’t think this is a serious problem for Sky have their head in the sand
It's not exactly an outlandish assumption.
Fans of the big clubs will want to watch the games they won't think "things don't get interesting until the QFs" and think it's fine to pay best over £200 to not watch the games.
August - December - 16 televised games
10 league games + 6 Champions League games
Sky: 6 league games
BT: 4 league games + 6 Champions League games
Sky Customers: £227.50 for 6 games league games + £99.95 to access BT games = £327.45
BT Customers: £25.00 for 6 Champions League games and 4 league games + £6.99 Now TV pass X 6 for Sky's leauge games (£41.94) = £66.94
Meaning that to see their 16 televised games
Sky Customers = £327.45
BT Customers = £66.94
To see the SAME number of Chelsea matches from August- December.
EDIT: A BT customer could purchase 5 X £31.99 monthly Now TV sports pass and get ALL games televised league and CL games on Sky and BT for £184.95 for the 5 month period.
For full season:
BT
10 X £31.99 Now TV pass = £319.90
10 X £5.00 BT cost = £50.00
Total = £369.99
Sky
10 X £42.50 Sky sports sub = £425.00
10 X £19.99 BT sports sub - £199.90
Total = £624.90
BT £254.91 cheaper than Sky plus you get more additional football extras: La Liga, Bundesliga, etc.
What about Wolves then?
Wolves are currently on Sky Sports 5 times
They will likely be on a few more times
They COULD be on BT Sport for the FA Cup
So we are on Sky 5 times and not on BT once. Can I get the required Sports channels on BT's own platform? And if so at what price?
NowTV day pass at £6.99 a time? You can add Sky Sports 1 & 2 to BT TV for about £22pm, but Sky kindly put some League matches on Sky Sports 5 which I don't think you can get anywhere but with Sky.
As for cost, it all depends on what football matches you want - for me for example as a Portsmouth and Hamburg SV supporter, the cheapest way for me would be BT broadband with BT TV and Sports, and a NowTV day pass for the rare times Pompey will be on Sky.
Currently its around £38pm for line rental, BT fibre unlimited broadband, new box with PVR, some premium TV channels (Fox, History, Gold, Discovery etc), all BT Sports channels and free HD for a year, plus £6.99 everytime Pompey are on Sky. It's only reallly expensive for football if you must have all PL, CL and FL football, if you can live without some of it, and just cherry pick certain matches you fancy you can save a fair amount.
Compare that to Sky's price of £85pm for line rental, normal unlimited BB, all Sky Sports channels and HD plus another £23pm for BT Sports in HD on the Sky box - granted you will get a few more premium channels with Sky like Sky One, Two, Atlantic, Living etc but whether thats worth £60+ pm extra is up to you, personnaly I'd rather save the money and buy the blu-ray boxsets.
Unfortunately I can't take BT's offer atm as I have Sky Sports on discount till October, and the line rental and broadband is on a 12 month contract till March, but even with the current discount it's still £10 a month more than if I could take the BT offer for a lot less football - so to keep me Sky will have to give me a new offer that betters the last one, as I can live without the Premier League and Football League quite happily as I normally only watch a match featuring a team I don't follow if it's there to watch, but I don't put myself out to watch them.
What about them? This is a football thread, although granted if you like those things it may be worth paying an extra 60 quid+ for Sky per month, myself I don't really care about the other sports, I'll watch them if available, but I'm not bothered enough about them to pay to watch them.
Can you get them on BT?
No Idea as I have Sky and not BT at present, but you can get Sky Sports 1 & 2 on BT, and might be able to get them with a day pass on NowTV*. I guess it all depends on which channels Sky decide to show things.
*Just looked and all 7 Sky Sports channels are on NowTV with a choice of day (£6.99), week (£10.99) or monthly (£31.99) passes.
https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/footballtickets#tab_1
Ah, thanks. Just curious. Don't have Sky.