World Wrestling Entertainment Discussion XXXIX (Spoilers)

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  • The_SleeperThe_Sleeper Posts: 200,474
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    HaloJoe wrote: »
    Where you been?

    Nowhere been here all the time !
  • Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 39,761
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    HaloJoe wrote: »
    Where you been?

    Asleep?
  • BFGArmyBFGArmy Posts: 28,865
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    HaloJoe wrote: »
    You have very good taste B :D:cool:

    No no, of course not :blush::p

    ___

    In other news, well played John Laurinaitis, i very much envy you!

    I believe you. ;-)

    Still can't believe I gave myself Swagger of all people in that sweepstake. >:(:D
  • BFGArmyBFGArmy Posts: 28,865
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    HaloJoe wrote: »
    Where you been?

    Who Knows Where? :D
  • Harris_07Harris_07 Posts: 27,953
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    BFGArmy wrote: »
    I believe you. ;-)

    Still can't believe I gave myself Swagger of all people in that sweepstake. >:(:D

    Is Swagger still with WWE?

    Another one with so much wasted potential.
  • HaloJoeHaloJoe Posts: 13,283
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    BFGArmy wrote: »
    I believe you. ;-)

    Still can't believe I gave myself Swagger of all people in that sweepstake. >:(:D

    You was just being a people person, geddit? :blush:
    Harris_07 wrote: »
    Is Swagger still with WWE?

    Another one with so much wasted potential.

    Last time i see him he was on Sky's Game Changers just before Mania.
  • BFGArmyBFGArmy Posts: 28,865
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    Harris_07 wrote: »
    Is Swagger still with WWE?

    Another one with so much wasted potential.

    Think so. Rusev beat him on Raw some point this summer I think.

    WWE really tried with him but he was nowhere near good enough in my view. That said since he injured 2 of my favourites while they were in the middle of huge pushes I'm not exactly his biggest fan.

    Still can't believe he v Del Rio was a Wrestlemania World Title match only 2 years ago. :o

    No wonder they got rid of that World Title later that year. :D
  • BFGArmyBFGArmy Posts: 28,865
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    HaloJoe wrote: »
    You was just being a people person, geddit? :blush:

    Last time i see him he was on Sky's Game Changers just before Mania.

    That's me. PEOPLE POWER! :D

    I'm being an idiot but is there some Johnny L thing that's going over my head? Care to explain lol? :confused::D

    I'd happily emulate Johnny L by having Eve Torres and David Otunga as my assistants. :D
  • Harris_07Harris_07 Posts: 27,953
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    BFGArmy wrote: »
    Think so. Rusev beat him on Raw some point this summer I think.

    WWE really tried with him but he was nowhere near good enough in my view. That said since he injured 2 of my favourites while they were in the middle of huge pushes I'm not exactly his biggest fan.

    Still can't believe he v Del Rio was a Wrestlemania World Title match only 2 years ago. :o

    No wonder they got rid of that World Title later that year. :D

    Hahaha. :D

    Wow! I can't believe that. Don't even remember it!

    Who did he injure?
    I always thought that he had a good look and his in ring skills were good too. Definitely needed a manager though.
  • HaloJoeHaloJoe Posts: 13,283
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    BFGArmy wrote: »
    That's me. PEOPLE POWER! :D

    I'm being an idiot but is there some Johnny L thing that's going over my head? Care to explain lol? :confused::D

    I'd happily emulate Johnny L by having Eve Torres and David Otunga as my assistants. :D

    He's just got engaged to the Bella twins mum ;-)
  • BFGArmyBFGArmy Posts: 28,865
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    Harris_07 wrote: »
    Hahaha. :D

    Wow! I can't believe that. Don't even remember it!

    Who did he injure?
    I always thought that he had a good look and his in ring skills were good too. Definitely needed a manager though.

    Ziggler during Ziggler's proper World Title Run and Barrett when Barrett when the 'BAD NEWS' thing was really over and Barrett was IC Champion from memory.
    Neither has been pushed as much since.

    He did have the attributes to go far but problems for me was he was botch-prone, his lisp really affected his promos and he never really had the greatest crowd interest. Plus none of his matches were particularly memorable (no matter what 'From The Vault' says)

    Agree on a manager - but even when he did have managers (and they did give him good ones like Vickie and Coulter) whenever other superstars were involved (like Ziggler or Cesaro) they easily outshone Swagger for me.
  • BFGArmyBFGArmy Posts: 28,865
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    HaloJoe wrote: »
    He's just got engaged to the Bella twins mum ;-)

    Oh yeah. Knew I was missing something obvious. :D

    Johnny L, Cena, Bryan, Nikki, Brie all in the same family tree.
  • dave_windowsdave_windows Posts: 5,937
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    Would WWE have played it better if Seth was built up as a babyface?
  • Harris_07Harris_07 Posts: 27,953
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    Would WWE have played it better if Seth was built up as a babyface?

    I think being a heel suits him. His face and voice just fit a heel.
  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    His wrestling is totally babyface though. It's all about high-flying and fast pace. I think there's a big disconnect between his wrestling and his character actually. He doesn't wrestle like a heel really at all.
  • James FrederickJames Frederick Posts: 53,184
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    BFGArmy wrote: »
    Oh yeah. Knew I was missing something obvious. :D

    Johnny L, Cena, Bryan, Nikki, Brie all in the same family tree.

    So now Cena is John Jr

    ;)
  • James FrederickJames Frederick Posts: 53,184
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    BFGArmy wrote: »
    Who Knows Where? :D

    You've been with Jim Neidhart
  • AlexiRAlexiR Posts: 22,403
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    ags_rule wrote: »
    I agree Sting should have won - and I'm pretty certain he would have if the match had not been booked as wCw vs. WWF.

    But I can't disagree anymore on the run-ins. They were a staple of the best era in wrestling, and when used well, add so much to the drama. Some of the biggest pops of all-time are for run-ins - I'm thinking specifically of Austin during Rock/Mankind in 99, and during Rock/HHH in 2000. Look at how Kane debuted as well - interfering in the first ever Hell in a Cell match.

    There's far too much emphasis - largely from the IWC - on matches having "clear winners and losers with no interference". Boooooring. Wrestling is entertainment, stop treating it as if it's a legitimate sport lol, there doesn't need to be clear winners and losers in a fake sport - just entertainment.
    The “it isn't real” argument might be my single biggest hate of any and all wrestling discussion.

    It absolutely doesn't matter if the WWE (or any other company) is real or not because its absolutely presented as real. The WWE asks its audience to invest in the stories, characters and matches that make up its television show and so these things absolutely matter. Its like saying internal continuity and logic doesn't matter on The Walking Dead because its not a harrowing documentary following the survivors of a zombie apocalypse but a piece of entertainment. Clear winners absolutely matter within WWE because we're being asked to invest in these stories and characters and the matches are (supposed to be) the climax of those stories and those climaxes should be clear and decisive.

    Having said that I'd agree that run-ins can be effective and add to the drama when they're correctly used and not overly used. When they become a staple of every other match you just condition the audience to not care about these matches because they're just sat waiting for the run-in and screwy finish (see WCW under Russo). And if audiences don't care about the matches they don't care about a hugely important part of your product. Let me also add that correctly means that run-ins (and screwy finishes in general) should make sense. They shouldn't just happen. The crowd would respond if John Cena did a run-in during the inevitable next Ryback vs. Show match but that doesn't mean it'd be a good idea because that wouldn't actually make any sense at this point. I'd also say correct use means they should be used sparingly. As with all things run-ins carry much more weight and meaning (and are thus much more dramatic) when they're rare and not happening every week or multiple times every week.

    On a final note I'm not sure pointing toward run-ins from major stars is a great argument for why they work. Audiences reacting to an appearance from a major star is hardly a surprising thing.
    Harris_07 wrote: »
    Sting said so himself in a promo that the match wasn't about WWF/E vs WCW because that ended a long time ago and it wouldn't make much sense to bring that issue up again. The match was about Sting fighting the injustice of The Authority.
    A promo which WWE immediately ignored. The entire feud was horribly framed as WWE vs. WCW and that's a large part of the reason it didn't work because as Sting pointed out in his promo that makes no sense.
    And he knows this because? While WWE today has alot of good talent they dont have the greatest indepth roster when fans are bored of the show. They deff arent a patch on stars like Perfect, Rude, Savage, Dibiase, Bret, Demo, Bulldogs, Santana, Snuka, Piper, Andre, and a ton of others. The tag team scene has been pretty piss poor for a number of years alough it seems they are doing something right with the tag teams at the moment but 1980s wrestling there were alot of great tag teams.
    Its worth mentioning that I think there's a difference between the talent the company has access to and how they're using them.

    I think there's a compelling argument to be made that the roster for current era WWE is the best roster of pure talent WWE have ever had. But this is largely driven by the lack of a real competitor to 'share' talent with (there's no WCW or NWA) and the rapid expansion of NXT that has opened the WWE up to talent that likely would never have got their foot in the door otherwise. When you fold the main WWE roster and the NXT roster together its an absolutely phenomenal list of talent. However that this argument can be made and the shows still be as lifeless and directionless as they are is pretty much the most damning example of how bad the current era creative has become. The WWE should be on fire right now when you look at who they have under contract but it isn't.

    Its worth remembering at this point that part of the reason WWE has been able to string together at least solid at least not surprisingly good-great Pay-Per-Views the last few years despite the awful television product is because of the roster they have. For the most part they're smart enough to just sort of get out the way on Pay-Per-View so we tend to get much better shows there than the build-up often suggests. Back in the 80s and 90s even when the product was on fire I'd say we got a lot more stinkers on Pay-Per-Views (and terrible shows as a whole) than we do now.
    BFGArmy wrote: »
    Seemed to me from Raw like HHH going face is the road they're going down - which feels like the worse of the two scenarios - and the crowd don't particularly want the feud. We're getting it though that's for sure.
    The big compelling argument against a Triple H face turn remains that teaser of an angle with The Rock from WrestleMania. There's no way on earth Triple H is going to be face for that (not even WWE can be that delusional) so he'd have to do a stupidly quick turn back to heel if he goes face opposite Rollins. I think a Rollins face turn is infinitely more likely particularly after SummerSlam which seemed to be WWE testing the water on what Rollins as a face looks like. I still think they'd be better off not going down this road until next year though. Eye Rollins vs. Triple H as the big SummerSlam 2016 match.
    FMKK wrote: »
    His wrestling is totally babyface though. It's all about high-flying and fast pace. I think there's a big disconnect between his wrestling and his character actually. He doesn't wrestle like a heel really at all.
    Part of the problem is that WWE haven't had the guts to actually follow through on turning him into Triple H (circa 2000) 2.0. Its pretty clear at this point that that's what they want(ed) to do but for whatever reason they haven't followed through on it so Rollins is just sort of stuck in this no man's land of in ring styles with no clear direction. He could easily be the workhorse heel that Triple H was but he doesn't have the booking to back him up on it so if he goes completely down that road the crowd are going to end up cheering him.
  • BFGArmyBFGArmy Posts: 28,865
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    You've been with Jim Neidhart

    :D
    I just thought it was witty - and on-topic. :D
    So now Cena is John Jr

    ;)

    Who knows maybe soon there'd be a John III. :D
    Harris_07 wrote: »
    I think being a heel suits him. His face and voice just fit a heel.

    I actually think he's better as a face. He was hugely over in that brief 2014 period as a face (and there was a reason people didn't expect him to turn heel) and some of the moves he can do and matches he's done just scream babyface - like at the Rumble and I just feel like there's a great 'scrappy, exciting underdog' character in there.

    If I thought WWE could do it justice, I'd really be looking forward to seeing how they'd turn him face again actually and get fans to cheer him again.

    I think he's a fantastic heel though and has got the whole smarmy, spoilt brat routine down to a tee. And for me behind Steph/Heyman, probably the best facial expressions in the company. Maybe I want WWE to be fixing something that's not broken.

    It's tough to judge though. Problem being in his main roster run he's only really had 4 months as a proper face - that period from around the Wyatt/Shield build to Payback - so I at least haven't had a huge period to judge it by.
    That sad that's not me criticising the Shield break-up timing - which I thought was well- timed.


    That said, I definetely feel Reigns and Ambrose would be better-suited as heels than faces though.
    Ambrose is over but for some reason I just find his face act slightly limited (even by WWE standards) and think he'd be far more natural as a heel (which he's been most of his career I think). That said if he were to go heel I could sadly see WWE making him again into their usual character who does things because he's CRAZYMAGGLE? ^_^
    And the fact he's nearly constantly over does suggest he's doing something right as a face so maybe I'd want them fixing something that's not broken.

    Reigns I feel though just would work so much better as a heel. Many of the 'older male fanbase' want to hate him so why not just embrace it - by having him be this unstoppable guy/adonis who's destined for the top but who becomes totally aware of it and it's so inevitable that he's just totally dislikable as a result.
    Think it'd suit him much more and doesn't require a massive tweak at all - you just need to look at New Day really. A small tweak in their character to make them heel has made them much more interesting and helped all 3 show their potential. Could easily be the same with Reigns.

    Sorry - that's a LOT more than what I intended to write. :blush:
    And not saying I'm right about any of the above at all.
  • Harris_07Harris_07 Posts: 27,953
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    I think Reigns should be a heel, too. Reigns and Ambrose just aren't progressing as well as I thought they would. I can definitely see The Sheild regrouping later, maybe once Seth loses the title. I can't see The Sheild together while one of them has the World Title.
  • gerry dgerry d Posts: 12,518
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    Just watched this weeks NXT. Eva Marie forgetting to kick out at the 2 count & ref just stopping the count looked so ridiculous.
  • BFGArmyBFGArmy Posts: 28,865
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    Harris_07 wrote: »
    I think Reigns should be a heel, too. Reigns and Ambrose just aren't progressing as well as I thought they would. I can definitely see The Sheild regrouping later, maybe once Seth loses the title. I can't see The Sheild together while one of them has the World Title.

    I'll probably mark like a teenage girl at a 1D concert when the Shield eventually reunite (assuming WWE do it well). :D

    gerry d wrote: »
    Just watched this weeks NXT. Eva Marie forgetting to kick out at the 2 count & ref just stopping the count looked so ridiculous.

    Never change Eva. :D

    Cameron's got competition.
  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    BFGArmy wrote: »
    I'll probably mark like a teenage girl at a 1D concert when the Shield eventually reunite (assuming WWE do it well). :D




    Never change Eva. :D

    Cameron's got competition.

    And why would you make a ridiculous assumption like that?
  • BFGArmyBFGArmy Posts: 28,865
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    FMKK wrote: »
    And why would you make a ridiculous assumption like that?

    A man can dream. >:(:D

    Plus didn't fancy putting 'If I thought WWE could do it justice' again lol.
  • HaloJoeHaloJoe Posts: 13,283
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    gerry d wrote: »
    Just watched this weeks NXT. Eva Marie forgetting to kick out at the 2 count & ref just stopping the count looked so ridiculous.

    I agree. But i think the crowd really distract her, more than most anyway. It's like her head is 50% in the matches, and 50% listening to the crowd. And tbf she really is getting big reactions in NXT - Good and bad (more bad admittedly).

    If she can learn to focus on the match more, and not the crowd so much she might succeed in NXT. She's getting a good push, WWE obviously see he in line for a title shot in the near future.

    Lol, i can just picture the people reading the BIB who don't watch NXT jaws dropping. But she was doing the 'belt around waist' gesture quite a bit. And She's even getting a 'lets go Eva, Eva sucks' chant :D
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