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London letting agents 'refuse black tenants'
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24372509
Following on from another thread which focused on overt racist language use. I thought this might be interesting in terms of a different facet of the debate.
Covert racism is in my opinion not only more prolific, but much more damaging in terms of impact (e.g. refused housing as in the article, or employment, opportunities) and of course harder to address and challenge.
In my younger years after getting a lower than anticipated invite to interview rate I was tactfully advised not to include my photo on CVs - it made a phenomenal difference. (And no, not because I'm a munter
).
It's worth noting that the two agents pictured in the article are Asian, so this isn't a case of majority on minority racism - it crosses ethnicity boundaries (something most people are aware of anyway, but invariably there are some people who don't acknowledge that aspect, so I thought it worth pointing out).
Have you ever suspected that you have been discriminated against but because it has been so subtle, you cannot prove it?
Have you had an experience where you have successfully challenged it?
Following on from another thread which focused on overt racist language use. I thought this might be interesting in terms of a different facet of the debate.
Covert racism is in my opinion not only more prolific, but much more damaging in terms of impact (e.g. refused housing as in the article, or employment, opportunities) and of course harder to address and challenge.
In my younger years after getting a lower than anticipated invite to interview rate I was tactfully advised not to include my photo on CVs - it made a phenomenal difference. (And no, not because I'm a munter
).It's worth noting that the two agents pictured in the article are Asian, so this isn't a case of majority on minority racism - it crosses ethnicity boundaries (something most people are aware of anyway, but invariably there are some people who don't acknowledge that aspect, so I thought it worth pointing out).
Have you ever suspected that you have been discriminated against but because it has been so subtle, you cannot prove it?
Have you had an experience where you have successfully challenged it?
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Comments
I suspect that this may have been a backlash against Asians being refused fuel elsewhere, but still...
:eek: Did you get a photo? Or report it? Or say owt to them?
Surely someone remonstrated about it? That's hardly covert
Maybe it's your music eh
No, this was 2000, before smartphones, and I didn't have a camera on me. These days, that would be on Twitter almost instantly. I didn't say anything at the time, I just ended up driving off and looking for somewhere else.
Only advocating everything should be the same. Everybody or nobody.
Doh! Good point. That's bloody crap though.
Thing is, it wasn't covert (scarily overt!). Like the article says, agents know they can't say 'no blacks/whites/whatever', but they are discriminating. But there's no way for Joe Bloggs to prove it.
Sorry I'm not familiar with it - could you elaborate how you were discriminated against covertly and what you did about it if anything?
Let's see.
Jessie. J
Jose stone
Adele
plan B
Amy Winehouse.
I'm sure there are more. I think the difference between you and them ,is they produce good music.
The point being that it's more about the money than racism per se at least on the part of the letting agent, the real issue is the landlord himself who in this case happened to be a fake...
I don't suppose the programme even bothered to establish whether any of the agents were registered with any Associations or Professional bodies such as ARLA https://www.arla.co.uk/ As an aside, if you are ever thinking of letting or indeed renting through an agent this is something you should check yourself....
I have felt discriminated against on occasion. Once when applying for work and once when trying to rent a flat.
The work thing..I was much more qualified than this other girl (I know this as I had been chatting to her before the interview, as the guy was late) but she turned up in a very low cut top, short skirt, loadsa makeup etc. Oddly enough, she got the job. I could understand if I was applying for work in a strip club but it was just in an office. Male interviewer though and seemed a bit of a perv tbh, so..bleh
Very true. Discrimination against people on benefits, for example, is not only prolific in the housing business but not illegal, so most places don't even bother with going covert and specify they're not welcome in adverts!
So not always covert, but yes another example of discrimination.
BIB - That's the problem, some people just are prepared to discriminate on an ill-founded and stereotypical view they've formed of whichever group. Thank heavens for legislation to protect against it in certain circumstances, but when the discrimination is covert how does one tackle and challenge it?
Definitely the looks thing is a biggy when it comes to employment - but again, I wonder if anyone has ever challenged it? Because it is not covered in legislation I can't imagine anyone even attempting to challenge that, much less have success!
"Room to let for Nigerian male" etc.
Quite obviously nobody else need apply.
I never challenged the employer. Partly because I wouldn't know how to prove anything and partly because I wouldn't want to work for a place that hires solely on looks tbh. I would imagine the girl in question might have ended up with a sexual harassment case..or may have slept her way to the top, one of the two.
Of course the landlords are the root of the problem, but the agents are not only condoning but implementing that discrimination - they are as complicit IMO.
The article doesn't mention whether the ten agents were registered with any bodies - it's a good point. I wonder if they focused on those that weren't...
I'm astounded.
Wasn't it said when the race discrimination acts were first introduced, that it would mean an end to the "no blacks, no Irish" signs that were common at the lodging houses of the time ?
That reminded me of another article about that:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18588612
Just as illegal of course. Though it raises a different angle - for a home share, should it be illegal? No way should people be discriminated on skin colour for a whole property let - but if you are seeking a lodger, perhaps it is acceptable to seek something that is important to you - e.g. English speakers only, similar religion, vegetarian. Hmm - pondering that....
Yes they do make me think of that - but It doesn't bother me to be honest.
If for whatever reason the landlord or landady feels more comfortable renting to a Nigerian man or a Sri Lankan or an Indian, what business is it of mine?
People should be allowed to rent to whomever they wish - and specifiy it up front to save everyone's time. Though I suggest if the ad was to read "Room to let for white British male" there would likely be uproar.
I can't agree with you there when it comes to full property lets. How on earth could someone reasonably exclude someone on skin colour? Imagine trying to find housing and being refused on something so very irrelevant as skin colour - wouldn't you be naffed off if it happened to you? If you were an ideal tenant but refused on your skin colour?
In a way they are in an awkward position too if a Landlord insists "no blacks" or any number of other restrictions.
Incidentally the "no DHSS" restriction is quite often a stipulation of lenders and not the landlord.
IMO there's no excusing it. It's illegal and I would like to see some kind of process which puts an onus on agents to report landlords who ask for that discrimination to take place.
Despite there being legislation in place, the article says: "But BBC London has learned that, although 36 people told the Property Ombudsman they were the victim of racial discrimination in the past three years, not one single complaint was upheld."
This kind of covert discrimination is nigh on impossible for the victim to prove. If agents were held accountable, and there was some kind of penalty for landlords seeking to discriminate in such ways, maybe the issue could be addressed.
Re the BIB that's really interesting! Do you know any more about it? I would hate to think lenders specify that on the assumptive basis that DHSS claimants are a certain type of tenant - surely there is something more reasonable behind it that I'm not thinking of? :eek:
I think that, rightly or wrongly, humans have a pack animal instinct and will generally associate with people with whom they identify, to give them a sense of security. That's why I wasn't too upset about the Asian petrol station thing, because I got the feeling that once supplies started running out, there might have been a bit of "looking after their own" from both the white and Asian communities in that area. If I saw a rental advert for "Nigerian male" I wouldn't bat an eyelid because I kind of get why people wish to "stick together" That's why there are ex-pat communities abroad. It's just human nature.
It's perfectly natural for people to go with what they know and trust. Black people often use other black people if they are having work done on their house etc. Same for Pakistanis using a Pakistani-owned garage to get their car fixed. They are obviously decisons made consciously and openly - and it's absolutely the private business of those concerned if they want to do that. Who am I to tell people who they should and should not do business with? The same applies to renting your own private property.
I should add that I personally don't give two hoots who might rent my property as long as they don't damage it in any way. But that's me. If others feel more comfortable doing things differently then it's their choice. Better that they be able to do it openly.
With the builders example for instance - why shouldn't a West Indian person who wants their house renovated be able to place an ad specifically requesting a West Indian builder?