Orphan Black: BBC America (US Pace)

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  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    Dare_Allan wrote: »
    So how do you sum up Season Two of Orphan Black. Seven Episodes of television without compare, some of the best episodes on television in a golden age of TV shows. Then coming off the rails so badly at the end.

    I still believe this is one of the best shows on television but it seems that the critical success (and let's face it. it's still far from an audience success) has allowed the showrunners to make decisions based purely on technical exercises designed to showcase just what they are clever enough to do.

    It wasn't even the last few episodes in themselves that are the problem. It is two particular choices which turned out to be purely "wouldn't it be cool if we..." moments.

    These are of course, the Tony character and the Four Clones scene both played out far longer than they were welcome. Personally I felt they got closer to pulling the Tony character off, the light beard is characteristic of FtoM trans but the hair failed, make up needed a short cut on a skullcap. Still it wasn't too bad a mistake, I said at the time that the character worked by the end of the episode. But now having seen the whole Season, it still wasted an entire episode of a 10 episode season on a character that will probably never be seen again and with a "game-changer message" which wasn't that game-changing after all.

    But the real killer, the most over-hyped moment of the season and the one that really worries me for Season 3 was the four clones scene. It wasn't part of the story, it wasn't dramatic, it had no dialogue. It was a purely technical exercise and it wasn't even pulled off that well, the joins were obvious, the computer manipulation of depth of characters was visible and it went on. And on. And on.

    Why it worries me so much is that if this signals why choices are made on the show, its tremendous depth of character, drama and tension can be set aside to add in a scene "just because we can".

    I really hope I'm wrong. Maybe they just got all this crap out their system. To an extent "let's have a male Tatiana" and "let's get as many clones as possible in a scene" are the two big "why don't we"s that I can think of. Hopefully there aren't any more and Season 3 can get back to giving us the show that in Season One and episodes 1-7 and 9 of Season Two provided. Deeply rich characters in tense exciting drama.

    When your lead actress is this good, you really don't need the gimmicks.
    Interesting. I thought the Clone Dance sequence was superbly done, both technically and in terms of Tatiana's performances (no surprise there). It was perhaps a bit over-long, but I saw this as a celebration of our four 'core' characters - the only time they have all come together in a season in which their stories have barely overlapped, and one moment of pure, joyous sisterhood before the oncoming storm - a real sense of family that none of them have ever really had.

    With the mystery of the male Castor clones bound to come more to the fore next season, we may never again see such a tight focus on Alison, Sarah, Helena and Cosima. (For me, although she is my favourite, I kind of feel Alison's story is done now, and wouldn't be surprised if she features less next year.)

    The only big misstep for me this season was the Tony storyline - partly the execution but particularly the timing so late in the season when I really wanted the focus to be on the central plot. No doubt we'll see him again next season, though, like it or not.

    Overall, though, it's still been a great season - the fact they haven't relied on lots of two and three-clone scenes throughout is a sign of the series' growing maturity and confidence.
  • Dare_AllanDare_Allan Posts: 2,328
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    Interesting. I thought the Clone Dance sequence was superbly done, both technically and in terms of Tatiana's performances (no surprise there). It was perhaps a bit over-long, but I saw this as a celebration of our four 'core' characters - the only time they have all come together in a season in which their stories have barely overlapped, and one moment of pure, joyous sisterhood before the oncoming storm - a real sense of family that none of them have ever really had.

    I can understand why the fanbois reaction was "oh wow four clones this is awesome". But that's not what the scene was. It was a technical exercise, it added nothing to the plot or the characters and while you argue it was superbly done, watch again, watch for the computer movement of characters being slid forward to allow Felix to move between them. It was shoddy.

    The Tony decision was, in my opinion, superior and actually worked far better (which I know puts be at odds with the hardcore fanbois and girls) but as I've said before it actually was a good depiction of a FtoM trans man except the hair, all FtoM trans guys have short hair (or very nearly all - its as stereotypical as the whispy beard). But that was forgivable because Maslany pulled it off, even though it was not a great idea to start with.

    However, the Four Clones scene was pure and utter fanwank. It served no purpose and as I said before it lasted forever. This also meant the more important storyline before it was cut down. Which was not good as it seemed rushed and had incongruous jumps of plot. After that scene, the Season 3 teaser was about right but the way that scene cut into the actual plot just wasn't acceptable.

    It's still a great series, it still has a great plot, it has amazing characters and Maslany is just... ridiculously, fantastically, incredibly good.

    They just need to stick to the plot and characterisation and forget about anything which is pitched as "wouldn't it be cool if...."
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,623
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    A good end to the season but still disappointing overall compared to S1. The plot got overly complex in parts and could have done with some trimming.

    Personally, I thought the Clone Dance was one of the best things I have ever seen. OK, so it was pay-off for the fans but the interaction between the clones has always been the best part of the show and what this season has been lacking the most. For me, it was the Tony character which pushed suspension of disbelief to its limits and where the show did get a little too silly and self-indulgent.
  • racefreakracefreak Posts: 616
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    Season 2 was dissapointing. Season 1 was very streamlined, this season I had no clue what was going on most of the time. Who is the bad guy? why are they doing this and that? Who is working with who? It changed every episode. Plot twists are good, but not every episode and at least make them a bit logical.

    I hope season 3 is better, but I don't have high hopes. Such a shame.
  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    racefreak wrote: »
    Season 2 was dissapointing. Season 1 was very streamlined, this season I had no clue what was going on most of the time. Who is the bad guy? why are they doing this and that? Who is working with who? It changed every episode. Plot twists are good, but not every episode and at least make them a bit logical.

    I hope season 3 is better, but I don't have high hopes. Such a shame.
    Funny, my view's the opposite. Season 1 was great, but meandered a bit too much in its middle third. Season 2 has had terrific pace, even if the whole is somewhat less than the sum of its parts. There's been the odd mis-step (the Tony storyline) but I've thought the plot twists have mostly made sense (in a ret-con sort of way) and I've found it all easy enough to follow.

    I quite like that the show isn't resting on its laurels and keeps reinventing itself with different villains and a shifting threat. I'm not sure it can keep doing it indefinitely, though. Even in this season the writers painted themselves into the odd corner and needed us to suspend our disbelief somewhat. (I can't be the only one who thought that Sarah's escape from Dyad, though thrilling, was utterly ridiculous, can I? Talk about needing everything to fall into place perfectly ...)

    The good moments outweigh the bad, though. I still love the noirish opening sequence of the season, with Sarah on the run from Mark and A N Other redshirt. And although it wasn't perfect (and a little indulgent), Clone Dance had enormous emotional resonance. I doubt we'll ever see the four sestras together again, so it was a moment to be savoured.

    I'd kind of like the show to throw everything into season 3 and go out on a high creatively. But so bright is TatMas's star at the moment, that I suspect it will probably go on a season or two too long, like most shows. But these first two seasons have been great fun to watch.
  • SattregaSattrega Posts: 85,046
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    Good news Clone Club, the show has been renewed for a 10-episode Season 3.

    Link.
  • GulftasticGulftastic Posts: 127,194
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    Not so great news.

    Tatiana is snubbed by The Emmys. AGAIN.

    Yet they thought Gervais' patronising rubbish Derek meant he was worth a nod.
  • RiDsTeRRiDsTeR Posts: 12,226
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    Sooooo so happy that this has been renewed. In my eyes the show goes strength to strength. Rarely puts a food wrong (in looking at Tony lol).

    Hopefully 2015 will be the year for Tatiana to shine at the emmys
  • LMLM Posts: 63,333
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    I am 4 episodes into season 2 as i saved it all up to binge. Does it get any better? Not loving this season compared to season 1
  • 007Fusion007Fusion Posts: 3,657
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    I am 4 episodes into season 2 as i saved it all up to binge. Does it get any better? Not loving this season compared to season 1

    I think episode 5 or 6 is pretty good. But no, it doesn't get any better until the finale.
  • simsysimsy Posts: 2,068
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    I have to say, this season was more disjointed, and it is difficult to see who is supposed to be bad and good, but I'm not sure that's intentional.

    As for the 4 clone scene which has polarized fans it seems, I thought it was great. These characters have become very close to each other, but have been spread apart for two seasons, briefly interacting, while fighting this corporation, and for one moment, they get to regroup and just enjoy each others company. I'm sure there was a bit of "look what we can do", but IMO it didn't feel out of place, and although there was no dialogue, they gave each other different little looks which spoke volumes to me.

    I hope the male clone plot is executed well. There have been no mention yet of them, so I hope they're not just shoehorned in. It does make me wonder who Mark's monitor is/was? Gracie? ;)
  • LMLM Posts: 63,333
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    007Fusion wrote: »
    I think episode 5 or 6 is pretty good. But no, it doesn't get any better until the finale.

    Thanks

    I'll see if i can remain patient till then
  • Flash525Flash525 Posts: 8,862
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    I'll repost what I posted elsewhere, save typing it all out again:
    Flash525 wrote: »
    I've done a search via the main page and the results came back negative, though (I do believe) this is a Canadian (originated) show so it might not be that well known? I do however find it unlikely that nobody here watches it?

    I've spent this past week playing catchup (Seasons #1 & #2), didn't even know about it until I was reading a post on the DS mainpage about renewed shows, and saw this one. Curiosity got the better of me when it was mentioned to be a sci-fi show, so I read up on it, acquired the first Season, and then three episodes in, also acquired the second Season and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I finished Season #2 earlier on this evening (about an hour ago actually).

    One thing I will say, I'm amazed (truly) that Tatiana Maslany (main actress) isn't more known - I've never heard of her before this show, and damn she deserves some serious credit for portraying that amount of unique characters all at the same time. Must have been seriously draining - and the effects department must have been equally stressed - explaining the ten episodes per season. The writers, cast and crew truly do deserve credit for that portrayal.

    Season #2 Final:
    Why did Helena leave that canister at Felix' flat - what was in it? What was its purpose - I seemed to have missed something here?
    Season #3 in April too. :)
    Also, just for clarification, the male clone that Sarah met in the Cafe/Diner was working for that Religious Cult, right?

    And (alike someone else who has mentioned above, I ain't too fond of the Toni character). Different for sure, but I feel him to be unneeded.
  • SkyfallSkyfall Posts: 8,510
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    A trailer to Orphan Black series 3 finally on the internet hope all of you enjoy the trailer.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    I wish I could give this show up. Sadly it seems to be more of the same this season.

    I get it, they've made clones, and now they are trying to get the clones back. And there are now male clones who are nasty compared to the female clones, because the male clones were brought up by the military.

    So we still basically have a show where people get chased and kidnapped, but nothing much really happens.

    I was hoping the bit at the start of the show was real and we could have a show about the female clones just getting on with life.

    I seriously doubt the big reveal at the end of the series will be worth waiting for.
  • -GONZO--GONZO- Posts: 9,624
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    This may be of interest to some, Season 3 is being shown weekly on Netherlands Netflix.
  • RiDsTeRRiDsTeR Posts: 12,226
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    I thought the opening was the excellent.

    I liked the reference to Alisons mum. I guess we'll be meeting her soon.

    Starting to like Mrs S and Delphine which is weird for me.

    I cannot wait for next week.
  • GulftasticGulftastic Posts: 127,194
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    Delphine torturing Rachel was a shocker. Didn't know she could be that dark.

    More subtle brilliance from Tatiana as Sarah playing Rachel. The way she walked, as someone obviously not used to wearing power heels.

    Very relieved Alison didn't get Helsinki'd!
  • Derek_CooperDerek_Cooper Posts: 93
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    Excellent start to Series 3 - looking forward to rest of the episodes
  • FiercelyHipFiercelyHip Posts: 3,693
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    Well, I liked the opener a hell of a lot more than I did most of season two, but it still fails to live up to its potential it showed in season one. Especially episode two which just falls a bit flat, because I’m not really sold on the Castor clones outside of them being a semi-okay foyle for the sisters.

    Tatiana as always is a marvel to watch though and it’s nice to see her now as a producer on the show.

    But one thing I really did like was the Delphine stuff and it was nice to see her have more to do. Evelyne Brochu has become one of my favourite french-language actresses with her film work, and feel they’ve wasted her a fair bit on here tbh.
  • 007Fusion007Fusion Posts: 3,657
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    I' am a little lost on what or who the impending threat is at this moment in time. It's become very convoluted, and it's not coming across coherently to me. Season 2 was messy, but I thought it would be rectified this season...seems not. But I can just about continue with it.

    Not that interested in the male clones since their introduction. But they do produce a contrast to Sarah's lot, as in they're more intimately linked.

    If the show can get back to finding the original source/patient zero and the intent of the cloning programme, I would be interested.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    007Fusion wrote: »
    I' am a little lost on what or who the impending threat is at this moment in time. It's become very convoluted, and it's not coming across coherently to me. Season 2 was messy, but I thought it would be rectified this season...seems not. But I can just about continue with it.

    Not that interested in the male clones since their introduction. But they do produce a contrast to Sarah's lot, as in they're more intimately linked.

    If the show can get back to finding the original source/patient zero and the intent of the cloning programme, I would be interested.

    Yes I think that is the problem I have with the show at the moment. I'm just not sure what is happening half the time or what the aim of the show is.

    Cloning alone doesn't really interest me, it is more the reason why the cloning that I care about. Although the fact they have patented the clones worries me that it will just be a money making thing.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,056
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    I want to like this. It sounds great.

    But.

    I watched the first episode last year and couldn't finish it. It was *ridiculous*. It seems like it has a very dark, serious tone to the conspiracy, and yet the show was punctuated every five minutes by her sidekick chum (who looks distractingly similar to that tit Nick Grimshaw) cracking stupid camp jokes to lighten the mood.

    What is it, a comedy, or a serious drama?
  • GulftasticGulftastic Posts: 127,194
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    He gets less wearing, trust me.

    And if you've given up after one episode, you have missed the chance to experience the brilliance of Tatiana Maslany's performance in all it's glory. She's simply amazing. You only get a taste early on.
  • EraserheadEraserhead Posts: 22,016
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    This show has been on my radar since season 1 but I didn't get around to watching - like many people nowadays it's a hard choice to invest in a US show which could get cancelled at a moment's notice by gormless studio execs.

    Anyway I've finally caught up since the first 2 seasons are on Netflix. I think it's a pretty decent show but like a lot of this type of show it runs the risk of getting over-complicated with plot twists as each season goes by.

    The real revelation, as has been pointed out on this thread and elsewhere, is Tatiana Maslany's amazing performances as each of the clones. Not only is each "sister" distinctive but Tatiana does an excellent job of keeping in character even when one clone is pretending to be another, which is a real acting masterclass. Credit must also go to the effects crew who, for most of the time, create very believable and seamless multiple takes to get more than one clone on screen at a time (and, yes, the clone dance scene was a bit indulgent in that respect but also great fun to watch).

    I'm not sold on the idea of male clones yet, though. Much of the appeal of the show has been from the strong female lead(s). I really hope the main focus stays with Sarah, Alison, Helena and Cosima and won't shift to more of the male clones.
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