I doubtless will make enemies of the entire nation when I agree with this.
I have been to a couple of weddings in France, in one, at a sit-down meal, there were a couple of tables set up in the centre of the room, surrounded by the other tables.
These centre tables were solely for the children, they sat there, talking to one another in normal tones, eating their food, casting big eyes at the desserts in store, occasionally catching the eye of Maman, or Papa, and quietly asking for something.
When the meal was over, the tables cleared away, the music started, the girls danced with each other while the boys just stood around, or begged for a sip of their parents wine.
There was no hurtling around the room, sliding and screaming, although it was obvious they were all enjoying themselves.
At the other wedding, it was a buffet, the children joined in the line and helped themselves, or if they were quite small, Maman filled their plates.
Same deal, no screaming or running around, any kid that looked as if he/she was ready to buck the trend was turned to stone by a look from one of their parents.
Maybe it's not always like that, for all I know weddings were being turned into mini riots by kids elsewhere in France.
The thing is, the running and screaming is virtually de rigeur in the U.K.
It's not just the French, at every Ghanaian or Nigerian party we go to all the kids have their own table and manage to behave themselves. I don't know why kids here are so intent on screaming all the time.
all i wanted was to be able to enjoy my lunch in one of my favourite places to eat, but the first half an hour was spoilt by a bunch of annoying loud children, whose parents seemed oblivious.
i was so tempted to say something either to them or the manager. i just wanted some peace while i ate my salad. Is that too much to ask ?
As per another similar thread you can't blame the kids really blame the parents! Obviously not very good or very selfish parents in this case.
I don't think the OP was expecting the children to sit in utter silence, just keep the noise to a tolerable level. I've been in places where you literally are unable to have a conversation with the person opposite and the little darlings are running up and down almost knocking staff or customers carrying plates of hot food or hot drinks over which is unsafe. It's not "pathetic" to expect parents to teach children appropriate behaviour when in certain places and to have a bit of consideration for others.
This is exactly it! No one is suggesting banning children from the outside world, until they are a teenager, just remember to be courteous to everyone. The worse ones are the parents who excuse the behaviour of their precious children as "oh, little Johnny is just expressing himself" - trust me, you don't want me to express myself.
I think some people just become oblivious to it. A friend of ours made us laugh because he mentioned how he hates going out for meals to his previously favourite place, with his wofe and son because they are always sat in the "baby bit".
This particular restaurant is quite large and open planned, but there is an area specifically for families with small children where they are seated.
He moans because they never enjoy a meal because there are always kids screaming and running up and down so they dont go there anymore. On a meal out somewhere else, there was one child screaming, shouting and throwing things. Of course he was totally oblivious to it because it was his son!
Maybe the parents of the kids just dont realise how disruptive they are because they are used to that behaviour at home?
God almighty, that sounded like us tonight. i don't know why they have a table for two in amongst all these noisy kids..
Children just like the rest of us are programmed to talk, and make noise! It's nothing to do with the parents keeping a watchful eye on the kids... You can't shut up a child fact! If you don't want noise from others including kids, go live on top of a mountain away from it all.. Problem solved!
And here we have the predominant attitude from parents these days.
We have stopped going out in the neighbourhood on a Sunday lunchtime/afternoon as every solitary venue resembles a kindergarten. Why the heck do we have to have everyone else's kids? Can we not have adult spaces?
I've lost count of the times we've encountered terribly behaved kids. A few weeks ago we were in a local Pizza Express, midweek, at 22:00. Two young "TOWIE" type girls, loads of boutique shopping bags, mucho wine, endless yakking. Both had little toddlers bored out of their minds. overtired and making an unholy din. A group of older diners nearby snapped and told them it was no place and no time for young kids to be out and to be ignored. Needless to say, a stream of abuse was the response, so we stood up and supported the people complaining, as did several other tables. It ended up with the two bimbos virtually screaming at everyone else, and just to give two fingers, they ordered a second dessert. Kids completely out of control in the meantime. Needless to say, 2 women on the next table said to them "ignore them all - they've obviously never had kids".
>:(
4 weeks ago, as a group of 6, we went to a very large and grand French restaurant near Piccadilly (which narrows it down somewhat!). Right in front of us was a large party of about 8 adults and the same number of kids. The kids had one end of the table, and were left completely to their own devices whilst adults drank and chatted, oblivious. The kids ran wild. Running around the whole place, sliding up and down on the polished floor (waiters carrying hot food dodging them). Screaming. Yelling. We put up with it for quite a long time, then one of my friends could stand no more and asked one of the guys if they could control their kids. In response came some air-mouthed obscenities. They were all French, incidentally. We asked for the manager, and asked why they didn't intervene as it was disturbing many other diners. "Why didn't you ask to be moved?" he said. US! And the place was full. He proceeded to get his ears roasted, and 2 bottles of free champers were delivered to the table. I'd have preferred the manager to have managed.
on a more serious note, looking back in time, i do not think children have been taught to behave properly in public places, a lot of the time parents themselves scream and shout esp when under the influence of alcohol and other substances..
of course in france children often drink wine with their parents at meal times, so they have been brought up to respect the alcohol and most do not abuse it..
we lack the education of our offsprings, and this shows up when they get older.
And here we have the predominant attitude from parents these days.
We have stopped going out in the neighbourhood on a Sunday lunchtime/afternoon as every solitary venue resembles a kindergarten. Why the heck do we have to have everyone else's kids? Can we not have adult spaces?
I've lost count of the times we've encountered terribly behaved kids. A few weeks ago we were in a local Pizza Express, midweek, at 22:00. Two young "TOWIE" type girls, loads of boutique shopping bags, mucho wine, endless yakking. Both had little toddlers bored out of their minds. overtired and making an unholy din. A group of older diners nearby snapped and told them it was no place and no time for young kids to be out and to be ignored. Needless to say, a stream of abuse was the response, so we stood up and supported the people complaining, as did several other tables. It ended up with the two bimbos virtually screaming at everyone else, and just to give two fingers, they ordered a second dessert. Kids completely out of control in the meantime. Needless to say, 2 women on the next table said to them "ignore them all - they've obviously never had kids".
>:(
4 weeks ago, as a group of 6, we went to a very large and grand French restaurant near Piccadilly (which narrows it down somewhat!). Right in front of us was a large party of about 8 adults and the same number of kids. The kids had one end of the table, and were left completely to their own devices whilst adults drank and chatted, oblivious. The kids ran wild. Running around the whole place, sliding up and down on the polished floor (waiters carrying hot food dodging them). Screaming. Yelling. We put up with it for quite a long time, then one of my friends could stand no more and asked one of the guys if they could control their kids. In response came some air-mouthed obscenities. They were all French, incidentally. We asked for the manager, and asked why they didn't intervene as it was disturbing many other diners. "Why didn't you ask to be moved?" he said. US! And the place was full. He proceeded to get his ears roasted, and 2 bottles of free champers were delivered to the table. I'd have preferred the manager to have managed.
What a truly awful experience for you. I hope you have managed to get over it now.
Go when you know the kids will be at school, or shut up and deal with it.
For the majority of families, at least one member will be at work during school hours. so that's straight out of the window.
Secondly, I never said I condone the behaviour, so what did I say in my first post exactly that could allow you to think I'm selfish? I'm not even going to ask why it would make me a dreadful person because that's just ridiculous. If you go out to eat on a Sunday afternoon, expect it to be packed with families. If you don't like it, stay at home.
Well that sounds exactly like you are condoning the behaviour. You think it's acceptable to tell people to 'stay at home', unless they are parents in which case they can go anywhere and behave in any manner. You've already been ripped apart by other posters, so I'll simply say I stand by my comment.
And here we have the predominant attitude from parents these days.
We have stopped going out in the neighbourhood on a Sunday lunchtime/afternoon as every solitary venue resembles a kindergarten. Why the heck do we have to have everyone else's kids? Can we not have adult spaces?
Absolutely nail on head. When pubs are building play areas on their premises, it's a sign that things have gone too far. Virtually every one around here is 'family friendly', full of brats who would 99% of the time prefer to be at McD's anyway.
...It ended up with the two bimbos virtually screaming at everyone else, and just to give two fingers, they ordered a second dessert. Kids completely out of control in the meantime.
WTF was the manager doing allowing that to happen?
We asked for the manager, and asked why they didn't intervene as it was disturbing many other diners. "Why didn't you ask to be moved?" he said. US! And the place was full. He proceeded to get his ears roasted, and 2 bottles of free champers were delivered to the table. I'd have preferred the manager to have managed.
I'll actually answer my own question from above - he was probably too scared of a 'scene' or a bad review on TripAdvisor. He'd change his tune if, after pointing out the problem and not seeing it rectified, you'd decided to pay only half or none of the bill...
The loud annoying children are not really the problem I have. Children can be irritants. I would however be far more annoyed if the parents just ignored their children and let it happen.
We complained one evening when a baby screamed and roared in a restaurant at about 9.30 pm while her mother sat there calmly finishing off a glass of wine and ignoring the annoyed looks being thrown at her. They took the price of our bottle of wine off the bill, but they should have been more proactive at the time.
Too many restaurant staff wait until customers complain about noisy children before doing anything, and even then it's usually just some kind of token gesture with the bill. There should be a policy in place so staff know how to handle these situations, instead of just ignoring them.
You have no idea how hard that is. I worked in a pub and in fairness 85% of the children were very well behaved, however 15% oh.my. I wanted to strangle them, they'd run around the place, they run into you, you're at fault, even though carrying 3 plates and trying not to fall down the stairs how dare you not see little Johnny. They are the parents you can't talk to. Someone tried, all they got was abuse while the parents got tanked up on a Tuesday afternoon.
No I don't miss that industry at all
Totally agree with you! I currently work in a country pub and dread the summer hols approaching because parents who want to enjoy having a drink with friends forget about their kids who run wild knocking into waitress carrying food. I'm just hoping for nice whether because we have a big outdoor play area so they are out of the way.
Most parents are responsible it's only the minority that spoil it for all the other customers and staff.
Glad you got out of the industry. I am at the moment looking for another job so fingers crossed
You are right, you cant, if you are a bad parent. Most of the good parent either have the sense to get a baby sitter and leave the kids at home or keep a close eye on them.
And here we have the predominant attitude from parents these days.
We have stopped going out in the neighbourhood on a Sunday lunchtime/afternoon as every solitary venue resembles a kindergarten. Why the heck do we have to have everyone else's kids? Can we not have adult spaces?
I've lost count of the times we've encountered terribly behaved kids. A few weeks ago we were in a local Pizza Express, midweek, at 22:00. Two young "TOWIE" type girls, loads of boutique shopping bags, mucho wine, endless yakking. Both had little toddlers bored out of their minds. overtired and making an unholy din. A group of older diners nearby snapped and told them it was no place and no time for young kids to be out and to be ignored. Needless to say, a stream of abuse was the response, so we stood up and supported the people complaining, as did several other tables. It ended up with the two bimbos virtually screaming at everyone else, and just to give two fingers, they ordered a second dessert. Kids completely out of control in the meantime. Needless to say, 2 women on the next table said to them "ignore them all - they've obviously never had kids".
>:(
4 weeks ago, as a group of 6, we went to a very large and grand French restaurant near Piccadilly (which narrows it down somewhat!). Right in front of us was a large party of about 8 adults and the same number of kids. The kids had one end of the table, and were left completely to their own devices whilst adults drank and chatted, oblivious. The kids ran wild. Running around the whole place, sliding up and down on the polished floor (waiters carrying hot food dodging them). Screaming. Yelling. We put up with it for quite a long time, then one of my friends could stand no more and asked one of the guys if they could control their kids. In response came some air-mouthed obscenities. They were all French, incidentally. We asked for the manager, and asked why they didn't intervene as it was disturbing many other diners. "Why didn't you ask to be moved?" he said. US! And the place was full. He proceeded to get his ears roasted, and 2 bottles of free champers were delivered to the table. I'd have preferred the manager to have managed.
shame you didn't film it, both of those experiences would have been entertaining to watch on youtube
You are right, you cant, if you are a bad parent. Most of the good parent either have the sense to get a baby sitter and leave the kids at home or keep a close eye on them.
correct....leave the brats at home.. why spoil it for the ones who just want to eat in peace pay enough for the meal..
Totally agree with you! I currently work in a country pub and dread the summer hols approaching because parents who want to enjoy having a drink with friends forget about their kids who run wild knocking into waitress carrying food. I'm just hoping for nice whether because we have a big outdoor play area so they are out of the way.
Most parents are responsible it's only the minority that spoil it for all the other customers and staff.
Glad you got out of the industry. I am at the moment looking for another job so fingers crossed
Oh yeah, pray to all and any Gods for sunshine, but least you have an outdoor area for them to run about in.
Oh it's like anything, the 99% who do things right aren't remembered, the 1% who do it wrong/annoy you, will always remember and that's the perfect that spoils it.
I'll actually answer my own question from above - he was probably too scared of a 'scene' or a bad review on TripAdvisor. He'd change his tune if, after pointing out the problem and not seeing it rectified, you'd decided to pay only half or none of the bill...
Oh, it didn't stop that. I gave it a mauling on TA
Food and service were pretty dire also, but it was a friend's birthday so we went with his choice. I would add that there were lots of other kids in the restaurant, all perfectly well behaved, with parents taking an interest and occupying them. The bunch involved here were obviously well heeled middle class types - it was "let the darlings express themselves" syndrome.
Part of the problem in chain restaurants is that the manager will be terrified of turning any custom away, even if it actually puts others off coming again. No excuse for independents, however. There is a great pub a short way away which has a strict "no children after 19:00" rule - not even in the garden. The owner is a very no-messing guy, and many a time I've seen parents turn very nasty when reminded of the rule (several notices around) and asked to leave. Always amusing, as he takes no nonsense whatsoever, and does not need their custom seeing as it's packed every evening.
its lazy parenting . and its a English thing. ive been on cross channel ferries about 6 times in the last few years.it was very noticeable that the only children who were running around screaming, were English. French children were sitting quietly
I have a few thoughts on all of this. While it would be nice to have a quiet meal while dining out, unless the restaurant is adult only, it's not a guarantee no matter how much the food costs. Payment for a service =/= getting things your way entirely. I've done overseas flights where the cost of my ticket far exceeded the cost of a nice meal, and while flying in peace would have been nice, the toddler across from me made sure it wasn't. Not her fault of course, but many adults think the world is unreasonable if things don't go their way. I also think sometimes people exaggerate their experiences for maximum effect. Children are sometimes loud, that doesn't make them brats. When my children were young, I would take things for them to play with if we were going out to eat. Colouring books, or just paper and a few crayons. Kids get bored easily, many of them would probably prefer to be left at home than stuck in a restaurant where they have to sit still for a long time with nothing to do. I'm not saying we all haven't encountered examples of bad parenting while dining out, but such is life. Also, I think I've come across far more adult arseholes than bratty kids in public.
Comments
It's not just the French, at every Ghanaian or Nigerian party we go to all the kids have their own table and manage to behave themselves. I don't know why kids here are so intent on screaming all the time.
As per another similar thread you can't blame the kids really blame the parents! Obviously not very good or very selfish parents in this case.
Thank you, do not miss it at all.
This is exactly it! No one is suggesting banning children from the outside world, until they are a teenager, just remember to be courteous to everyone. The worse ones are the parents who excuse the behaviour of their precious children as "oh, little Johnny is just expressing himself" - trust me, you don't want me to express myself.
God almighty, that sounded like us tonight. i don't know why they have a table for two in amongst all these noisy kids..
And here we have the predominant attitude from parents these days.
We have stopped going out in the neighbourhood on a Sunday lunchtime/afternoon as every solitary venue resembles a kindergarten. Why the heck do we have to have everyone else's kids? Can we not have adult spaces?
I've lost count of the times we've encountered terribly behaved kids. A few weeks ago we were in a local Pizza Express, midweek, at 22:00. Two young "TOWIE" type girls, loads of boutique shopping bags, mucho wine, endless yakking. Both had little toddlers bored out of their minds. overtired and making an unholy din. A group of older diners nearby snapped and told them it was no place and no time for young kids to be out and to be ignored. Needless to say, a stream of abuse was the response, so we stood up and supported the people complaining, as did several other tables. It ended up with the two bimbos virtually screaming at everyone else, and just to give two fingers, they ordered a second dessert. Kids completely out of control in the meantime. Needless to say, 2 women on the next table said to them "ignore them all - they've obviously never had kids".
>:(
4 weeks ago, as a group of 6, we went to a very large and grand French restaurant near Piccadilly (which narrows it down somewhat!). Right in front of us was a large party of about 8 adults and the same number of kids. The kids had one end of the table, and were left completely to their own devices whilst adults drank and chatted, oblivious. The kids ran wild. Running around the whole place, sliding up and down on the polished floor (waiters carrying hot food dodging them). Screaming. Yelling. We put up with it for quite a long time, then one of my friends could stand no more and asked one of the guys if they could control their kids. In response came some air-mouthed obscenities. They were all French, incidentally. We asked for the manager, and asked why they didn't intervene as it was disturbing many other diners. "Why didn't you ask to be moved?" he said. US! And the place was full. He proceeded to get his ears roasted, and 2 bottles of free champers were delivered to the table. I'd have preferred the manager to have managed.
of course in france children often drink wine with their parents at meal times, so they have been brought up to respect the alcohol and most do not abuse it..
we lack the education of our offsprings, and this shows up when they get older.
What a truly awful experience for you. I hope you have managed to get over it now.
We we haven't.
Spent a fortune on counselling and had a long foreign holiday, but we are still suffering flashbacks.
For the majority of families, at least one member will be at work during school hours. so that's straight out of the window.
Well that sounds exactly like you are condoning the behaviour. You think it's acceptable to tell people to 'stay at home', unless they are parents in which case they can go anywhere and behave in any manner. You've already been ripped apart by other posters, so I'll simply say I stand by my comment.
Great example of selfish person
Obviously you can, otherwise every single child in a public place would be running around screaming, which clearly isn't the case.
Absolutely nail on head. When pubs are building play areas on their premises, it's a sign that things have gone too far. Virtually every one around here is 'family friendly', full of brats who would 99% of the time prefer to be at McD's anyway.
WTF was the manager doing allowing that to happen?
I'll actually answer my own question from above - he was probably too scared of a 'scene' or a bad review on TripAdvisor. He'd change his tune if, after pointing out the problem and not seeing it rectified, you'd decided to pay only half or none of the bill...
Shall I take it you agree with my post?
Too many restaurant staff wait until customers complain about noisy children before doing anything, and even then it's usually just some kind of token gesture with the bill. There should be a policy in place so staff know how to handle these situations, instead of just ignoring them.
Most parents are responsible it's only the minority that spoil it for all the other customers and staff.
Glad you got out of the industry. I am at the moment looking for another job so fingers crossed
You are right, you cant, if you are a bad parent. Most of the good parent either have the sense to get a baby sitter and leave the kids at home or keep a close eye on them.
shame you didn't film it, both of those experiences would have been entertaining to watch on youtube
I've opened a restaurant called "Peace and Quiet" .
Kid's meals are £250.
:-D
correct....leave the brats at home.. why spoil it for the ones who just want to eat in peace pay enough for the meal..
Oh yeah, pray to all and any Gods for sunshine, but least you have an outdoor area for them to run about in.
Oh it's like anything, the 99% who do things right aren't remembered, the 1% who do it wrong/annoy you, will always remember and that's the perfect that spoils it.
Good luck with job search!
Oh, it didn't stop that. I gave it a mauling on TA
Food and service were pretty dire also, but it was a friend's birthday so we went with his choice. I would add that there were lots of other kids in the restaurant, all perfectly well behaved, with parents taking an interest and occupying them. The bunch involved here were obviously well heeled middle class types - it was "let the darlings express themselves" syndrome.
Part of the problem in chain restaurants is that the manager will be terrified of turning any custom away, even if it actually puts others off coming again. No excuse for independents, however. There is a great pub a short way away which has a strict "no children after 19:00" rule - not even in the garden. The owner is a very no-messing guy, and many a time I've seen parents turn very nasty when reminded of the rule (several notices around) and asked to leave. Always amusing, as he takes no nonsense whatsoever, and does not need their custom seeing as it's packed every evening.
Corrected your mistake.:D