I'd have preferred Rick to say "They're f**king with the wrong people" even
if AMC would have to beep out the f-bomb. Come on, it's one of the most
gory shows on US TV and they still have a PG-level vocabulary?
It is odd. The situation suggested a slightly stronger vocabulary would have been appropriate. It's also nice when they use the line as it appears in the comic, but at least Abraham was the one to ask the question. I suppose they have to consider the fact that a lot of kids are permitted to watch the show (pretty disturbing in my opinion), and language like that might receive complaints, whilst the level of violence and gore shown has been deemed okay by a whole herd of responsible parents .
It is odd. The situation suggested a slightly stronger vocabulary would have been appropriate. It's also nice when they use the line as it appears in the comic, but at least Abraham was the one to ask the question. I suppose they have to consider the fact that a lot of kids are permitted to watch the show (pretty disturbing in my opinion), and language like that might receive complaints, whilst the level of violence and gore shown has been deemed okay by a whole herd of responsible parents .
In the US mainstream culture they're extremely laissez-faire about showing violence but incredibly puritan about anything sexual or profane.
An irritating cliffhanger but a good season finale nonetheless. Lots to chew over until Season 5. The writers said there are quite a few clues as to what Terminus is throughout the episode (and probably elsewhere in Season 4) so that will get the rumour mill running at full steam.
The most obvious of which was the rabbit snare - a nice touch - but that also brought up another point: meat is clearly in short supply. Rick, Michonne and Carl were trying to survive on rabbit; Daryl had to share half a rabbit with the psycho crew. And yet meat seems to be plentiful in Terminus. When both Rick's and Glenn's group arrived there seemed to be a barbecue on the go. And of course we saw remains strewn around - human or animal?
There are other references as others have pointed out, again obviously the name Terminus - the end of the line.
And does anyone know if the comic books have got beyond this point or whether they're different from the TV series? I wouldn't want someone who's read the books to post massive spoilers here or elsewhere.
And does anyone know if the comic books have got beyond this point or whether they're different from the TV series? I wouldn't want someone who's read the books to post massive spoilers here or elsewhere.
They are basically at this point in issue 64 - Youtube channel for TWD comics, even the final words of dialogue are the same !
But be aware as mentioned in various threads and responses that the story lines from the comics and TV series skew in and out from in each other.
The idea that the Terminus group where some sort of cult before the ZA does make sense, they are well organized, fairly well armed and work well together so it does seem a reasonable logical step.
Equally by looking at the deleted scence from earlier posts the bones and other remains do appear to be human or sufficently human sized to look human.
I have an alternate view on the cult, they may be one of these end of days groups that see the walkers as proof of the end of the world and are waiting on judgement day taking various bits from different belief systems to justify their actions until God allows them into the here after.
The names surrounded by candels suggest some sort of shrine to those who surrendered their lives or where 'lost' when all hell broke loose.
The walkers don't derive any viable nurishment from eating due to being dead and their organs will have ceased to function it's a base auto response as I would say only the more primative parts of the brain function when you turn so to appear well fed doesn't make sense hence newly turned.
Then we have the eating people bit which has been raised elsewhere. As I understand it based on what we have seen and been told it looks like the virus that causes you to turn is inactive while you are alive on death the virus activates and you turn. Once you have turned there is so much virus in your system that it acts like a hot shot to turn on the virus in your body so speeding up the process. If the virus is retained mainly in brain tissue before you turn then removing the head would prevent the virus going hot so in theory you could eat someone and be alright but I wouldn't want to take the chance.
Another possible effect would be to partly turn you, you are alive but higher brain functions fail and we have a new subgroup who are still living and can eat and remain alive but who lack any of their former self.
Haven't taken an idea this far since Uni along time ago.
I thought in the other topic that maybe they're eating freshly turned walkers and not technically cannibals (which is what their human supply is for). I know that sounds bizarre, but they're clearly a crazy cult, too, so who knows? Or maybe they secretly sacrifice people to walkers to their crazy cult overlords? There's definitely a bigger picture other than "oh they're cannibals".
It may have been me, but I'm pretty sure they were going to just outright kill Carl until they realised it would cause to much hassle and likely incite the others to fight and get killed. Not enough meat on his bones, or maybe they were going to let him go?
Someone who was eating earlier when they arrived looked all scruffy and hard done by, a new arrival and not one of their group? Maybe they DO really let people in?
As to next season; it's looking like the same as this seasons 2 8-episode arcs. Which obviously brings up a point; there must be more to them than they're cannibals...otherwise "8 episodes set in a box trailer"? It'd certainly save budget. LOL
^I could see a Carol/Judith/Tyreese bump into Beth and friends episode. People seem to think she got abducted by some religious guy/group because there was a cross in the back window. Maybe an episode flashback about the Terminus group, then an escape episode and warring episode. That's about half the first half's episodes. Thought from the "action packed more than ever" I predict they all pretty much escape by the end of the first episode, then as you see our guys leaving,you see Carol/Tyreese/Judith arriving at Terminus...
ah they weren't trying to shoot them, they were shepherding them towards the trailer
didn't rick say 'they aren't trying to shoot us, they want to eat us' or something..?
He said "they're shooting at our feet" so he knew what they were doing. Not sure they're certain the Terminus lot are cannibals yet, but it'll probably become clear to them in Season 5 when we see them discussing what they saw as they ran past the heap of bones.
It could be that Beth has ended up with an off shoot of the Terminus group that aren't into eating people or feeding them to walkers. Or it could be just someone with a broken rear window who patched it up with tape that looks like a cross.
Maybe, bit of leap here, the leader of the original Terminus Group turned along with certian other cult members turned but where seen a so important that they are kept and fed. Those seen as dangerous to Terminus being fed to them. Or maybe my earlier suggestion of 'living' walkers down to the adverse effects of eating infected flesh.
Or it could be a variation on another group from the Comic series who if I recall only allowed healthy adults in, no old and no children so that they could fight the walkers. As anyone who can't fight wasn't any use to them.
We'll be coming up with all sorts of ideas until the next series starts so lets settle in for wild plans and ideas of what's coming in season five.
Great episode. Coupla things got me thinking though. Is it even possible for a human to do what Rick did to Big Scary Guy? Granted he wasn't biting through bone, but we don't have sharp teeth and human skin is pretty tough to take that depth of bite out of that quickly. And did anyone else think the 'Claimers' motivation for catching up with Rick was a bit weak? So he killed one of their group. SFW? They're not exactly model citizens themselves, all concerned with their fellow man. Didn't one of them even kill, or at least seriously injure, (I think it occured off-screen) one of their own at the house in a fight over the best frickin' bed? Not to mention beating the guy to death for breaking the code. I really can't see them tracking Rick purely to avenge his death, so was it more for the the 'sport' of hunting and killing? I suppose they've got to do something to pass the time.
I'm also going with cannibalism at Terminus, or at very least, using them as a food source for something. Realistically, how are they going to escape? They're massively outnumbered and un-armed and I can't believe the writers are going to pull another Zulu/ Sparta style winning-against-impossible-odds escape are they? Rick's gone all gung-ho again, and what with that last line, I can't believe he's going to try negotiation again. No doubt it'll be something like Beth's new gang know what's going on, kidnapped her to protect her and turn up at the last second in a helicopter gun-ship or something equally plausible. ;-)
Great episode. Coupla things got me thinking though. Is it even possible for a human to do what Rick did to Big Scary Guy? Granted he wasn't biting through bone, but we don't have sharp teeth and human skin is pretty tough to take that depth of bite out of that quickly.
Dunno, Mike Tyson managed to take a chunk of an ear once though...
One thing I thought I noticed, but hasn't been mentioned, so maybe I didn't. In the scene where Rick is burying the bag of guns, he turns to speak with Darryl. Way in the background behind Darryl, there appears to be movement. Couldn't tell if it was walkers or people, or real!, but, could it be the cavalry?? Carole and Tyreese arriving just in time to witness the herding and try to conjure up a plan of rescue?
It was reported last year that Emily Kinney (Beth) was being promoted to series regular for season four. It never happened.
They've announced three new series regulars for season five and she's not one of them.
She is a series regular in season 4. She is credited in every episode whether she appears on not. She is just not on the opening titles. Carol was a series regular in Season 3 yet wasn't on the main titles until this seasonn.
Tyrese and Sasha and Bob were also all series regulars and credited in every episode. Maybe some of these will be in the main titles next year to replace Hershal and Governor.
i was initially disappointed but merely because i was expecting Rick Carl and Judith reunited, too many flashbacks to the old times for me (was nice to see Hershall again but when you only have 43 mins the clocks kinda ticking so personally id like to see new footage not loads of flashbacks ) saying that though i never predicted the end so true to form TWD keeps us all intrigued and talking, and in away it would of probably been corny if Beth and everyone had all ended up at Terminus for the final episode. Predictable it wasnt ............ great series i love it
Great episode. Coupla things got me thinking though. Is it even possible for a human to do what Rick did to Big Scary Guy? Granted he wasn't biting through bone, but we don't have sharp teeth and human skin is pretty tough to take that depth of bite out of that quickly.
I've often pondered this about all zombie films. I think a human could make a pretty hard bite but all it would do is leave a really big red ring of teeth marks. Its possible that the incisors might break the skin a bit, but like you, I don't think a human has the teeth or muscle power to rip huge chunks out of people, zombie or not.
Ear biting is easier as both upper and lower jaws can clamp through the earlobe, and its small enough to be ripped off, but when a zombie bites someone's calf, they rip out muscle down to the bone.
I've often pondered this about all zombie films. I think a human could make a pretty hard bite but all it would do is leave a really big red ring of teeth marks. Its possible that the incisors might break the skin a bit, but like you, I don't think a human has the teeth or muscle power to rip huge chunks out of people, zombie or not.
Ear biting is easier as both upper and lower jaws can clamp through the earlobe, and its small enough to be ripped off, but when a zombie bites someone's calf, they rip out muscle down to the bone.
Ive always thought about this, more so after seeing Rick. With the zombies maybe as they're acting on 'instinct' they can apply more force and aggression than we would be able too as we would be thinking too much about what we are doing. However, as we see. The zombies flesh and bones are weak for many of them so a bite could destroy their own jaws - not that they'd care. If we bit a person I wonder if before we got anywhere near enough force we'd have been pushed of and probably broken our jaw too. Hmmmm could ramble on for hours on this.
Ive always thought about this, more so after seeing Rick. With the zombies maybe as they're acting on 'instinct' they can apply more force and aggression than we would be able too as we would be thinking too much about what we are doing. However, as we see. The zombies flesh and bones are weak for many of them so a bite could destroy their own jaws - not that they'd care. If we bit a person I wonder if before we got anywhere near enough force we'd have been pushed of and probably broken our jaw too. Hmmmm could ramble on for hours on this.
I wonder more about the biting through clothing...denim...really? I don't know why becoming a zombie would strengthen teeth, I think it is more about the crazed effect which means they don't hold back. It is possible to bite through flesh though with pretty devastating effect, as evidenced by this story from 2012:
She is a series regular in season 4. She is credited in every episode whether she appears on not. She is just not on the opening titles. Carol was a series regular in Season 3 yet wasn't on the main titles until this seasonn.
Tyrese and Sasha and Bob were also all series regulars and credited in every episode. Maybe some of these will be in the main titles next year to replace Hershal and Governor.
I think series regulars get a steady wage regardless of whether they appear in
every single ep, whereas guest actors have to be paid for each ep seperately.
As for what happened to her, maybe it was a literal version of what TVTropes
calls "Put on a Bus" - remove someone from the series without killing 'em off.
She may return...
There was zero emotional impact with this finale. No one died..compared to Andreas tragic death last year.
There doesn't need to be a death to have emotional impact. For me most of the impact was in Rick killing the paedophile. That guy had surrendered, dropped his weapon and was no longer a threat. What Rick did was similar to Carl killing the youth at the end of season 3. Except that Carl's victim was advancing with a gun in his hand, and Rick's was unarmed. And Carl shot him cleanly, and Rick butchered in a rage. For me this was pretty huge, all the more so for being juxtaposed with flashbacks to Rick trying to be a farmer.
The Terminus part was setting up a cliff-hanger for the next season.
But a good point that no-one wants to eat 'tainted' meat - people have avoided animal kills that have been nibbled on by walkers. I'd guess that the cannibals do a proper 'headshot' kill so that the re-animation doesn't get a chance to kick in and immediately butcher and cook the 'meat'. :eek:
I imagine they'd amputate body parts first, and keep the victim alive as long as possible. That said, there seemed to be enough people there that they could probably eat a whole person in one go. On the third hand, they have a lot of prisoners held in storage so they aren't getting through them very quickly. Perhaps they only eat meat sparingly, like once a week on Sundays or something. I don't think vegetarianism is right for humans - we're omnivores, look at our teeth - but we don't need to eat meat very often.
Possibly the names beneath the candles are the names of people the residents of Terminus have eaten
They don't seem to be big on names. When ordering the group into the boxcar, they identified them by role. "The archer" etc. This is part of the dehumanising process. Same as Rick would let the pigs be named, or how Lizzie did gave names to zombies. So I think it's more likely that the room was a shrine to their own fallen.
Comments
Just watched the ad free version on Catch Up and he said 'screwing'.
Epic end, to a great season.:cool:
Interesting views on who Gareth's lot are.....Mad I tell you, and not good shots too.;-):D
It is odd. The situation suggested a slightly stronger vocabulary would have been appropriate. It's also nice when they use the line as it appears in the comic, but at least Abraham was the one to ask the question. I suppose they have to consider the fact that a lot of kids are permitted to watch the show (pretty disturbing in my opinion), and language like that might receive complaints, whilst the level of violence and gore shown has been deemed okay by a whole herd of responsible parents
In the US mainstream culture they're extremely laissez-faire about showing violence but incredibly puritan about anything sexual or profane.
The most obvious of which was the rabbit snare - a nice touch - but that also brought up another point: meat is clearly in short supply. Rick, Michonne and Carl were trying to survive on rabbit; Daryl had to share half a rabbit with the psycho crew. And yet meat seems to be plentiful in Terminus. When both Rick's and Glenn's group arrived there seemed to be a barbecue on the go. And of course we saw remains strewn around - human or animal?
There are other references as others have pointed out, again obviously the name Terminus - the end of the line.
And does anyone know if the comic books have got beyond this point or whether they're different from the TV series? I wouldn't want someone who's read the books to post massive spoilers here or elsewhere.
They are basically at this point in issue 64 - Youtube channel for TWD comics, even the final words of dialogue are the same !
But be aware as mentioned in various threads and responses that the story lines from the comics and TV series skew in and out from in each other.
Equally by looking at the deleted scence from earlier posts the bones and other remains do appear to be human or sufficently human sized to look human.
I have an alternate view on the cult, they may be one of these end of days groups that see the walkers as proof of the end of the world and are waiting on judgement day taking various bits from different belief systems to justify their actions until God allows them into the here after.
The names surrounded by candels suggest some sort of shrine to those who surrendered their lives or where 'lost' when all hell broke loose.
The walkers don't derive any viable nurishment from eating due to being dead and their organs will have ceased to function it's a base auto response as I would say only the more primative parts of the brain function when you turn so to appear well fed doesn't make sense hence newly turned.
Then we have the eating people bit which has been raised elsewhere. As I understand it based on what we have seen and been told it looks like the virus that causes you to turn is inactive while you are alive on death the virus activates and you turn. Once you have turned there is so much virus in your system that it acts like a hot shot to turn on the virus in your body so speeding up the process. If the virus is retained mainly in brain tissue before you turn then removing the head would prevent the virus going hot so in theory you could eat someone and be alright but I wouldn't want to take the chance.
Another possible effect would be to partly turn you, you are alive but higher brain functions fail and we have a new subgroup who are still living and can eat and remain alive but who lack any of their former self.
Haven't taken an idea this far since Uni along time ago.
Y'know, in the creepy candle filled shrine / worship room, Rick and co ran through? I know on the walls it said stuff like "We first, always".
Names. Some had their age, too.
ah they weren't trying to shoot them, they were shepherding them towards the trailer
didn't rick say 'they aren't trying to shoot us, they want to eat us' or something..?
It may have been me, but I'm pretty sure they were going to just outright kill Carl until they realised it would cause to much hassle and likely incite the others to fight and get killed. Not enough meat on his bones, or maybe they were going to let him go?
Someone who was eating earlier when they arrived looked all scruffy and hard done by, a new arrival and not one of their group? Maybe they DO really let people in?
As to next season; it's looking like the same as this seasons 2 8-episode arcs. Which obviously brings up a point; there must be more to them than they're cannibals...otherwise "8 episodes set in a box trailer"? It'd certainly save budget. LOL
^I could see a Carol/Judith/Tyreese bump into Beth and friends episode. People seem to think she got abducted by some religious guy/group because there was a cross in the back window. Maybe an episode flashback about the Terminus group, then an escape episode and warring episode. That's about half the first half's episodes. Thought from the "action packed more than ever" I predict they all pretty much escape by the end of the first episode, then as you see our guys leaving,you see Carol/Tyreese/Judith arriving at Terminus...
He said "they're shooting at our feet" so he knew what they were doing. Not sure they're certain the Terminus lot are cannibals yet, but it'll probably become clear to them in Season 5 when we see them discussing what they saw as they ran past the heap of bones.
Maybe, bit of leap here, the leader of the original Terminus Group turned along with certian other cult members turned but where seen a so important that they are kept and fed. Those seen as dangerous to Terminus being fed to them. Or maybe my earlier suggestion of 'living' walkers down to the adverse effects of eating infected flesh.
Or it could be a variation on another group from the Comic series who if I recall only allowed healthy adults in, no old and no children so that they could fight the walkers. As anyone who can't fight wasn't any use to them.
We'll be coming up with all sorts of ideas until the next series starts so lets settle in for wild plans and ideas of what's coming in season five.
I'm also going with cannibalism at Terminus, or at very least, using them as a food source for something. Realistically, how are they going to escape? They're massively outnumbered and un-armed and I can't believe the writers are going to pull another Zulu/ Sparta style winning-against-impossible-odds escape are they? Rick's gone all gung-ho again, and what with that last line, I can't believe he's going to try negotiation again. No doubt it'll be something like Beth's new gang know what's going on, kidnapped her to protect her and turn up at the last second in a helicopter gun-ship or something equally plausible. ;-)
Dunno, Mike Tyson managed to take a chunk of an ear once though...
One thing I thought I noticed, but hasn't been mentioned, so maybe I didn't. In the scene where Rick is burying the bag of guns, he turns to speak with Darryl. Way in the background behind Darryl, there appears to be movement. Couldn't tell if it was walkers or people, or real!, but, could it be the cavalry?? Carole and Tyreese arriving just in time to witness the herding and try to conjure up a plan of rescue?
They've announced three new series regulars for season five and she's not one of them.
She is a series regular in season 4. She is credited in every episode whether she appears on not. She is just not on the opening titles. Carol was a series regular in Season 3 yet wasn't on the main titles until this seasonn.
Tyrese and Sasha and Bob were also all series regulars and credited in every episode. Maybe some of these will be in the main titles next year to replace Hershal and Governor.
I've often pondered this about all zombie films. I think a human could make a pretty hard bite but all it would do is leave a really big red ring of teeth marks. Its possible that the incisors might break the skin a bit, but like you, I don't think a human has the teeth or muscle power to rip huge chunks out of people, zombie or not.
Ear biting is easier as both upper and lower jaws can clamp through the earlobe, and its small enough to be ripped off, but when a zombie bites someone's calf, they rip out muscle down to the bone.
Ive always thought about this, more so after seeing Rick. With the zombies maybe as they're acting on 'instinct' they can apply more force and aggression than we would be able too as we would be thinking too much about what we are doing. However, as we see. The zombies flesh and bones are weak for many of them so a bite could destroy their own jaws - not that they'd care. If we bit a person I wonder if before we got anywhere near enough force we'd have been pushed of and probably broken our jaw too. Hmmmm could ramble on for hours on this.
I wonder more about the biting through clothing...denim...really? I don't know why becoming a zombie would strengthen teeth, I think it is more about the crazed effect which means they don't hold back. It is possible to bite through flesh though with pretty devastating effect, as evidenced by this story from 2012:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_cannibal_attack
That's very interesting. Seems physically possible, so motivation might be the key.
I think series regulars get a steady wage regardless of whether they appear in
every single ep, whereas guest actors have to be paid for each ep seperately.
As for what happened to her, maybe it was a literal version of what TVTropes
calls "Put on a Bus" - remove someone from the series without killing 'em off.
She may return...
The Terminus part was setting up a cliff-hanger for the next season.
I imagine they'd amputate body parts first, and keep the victim alive as long as possible. That said, there seemed to be enough people there that they could probably eat a whole person in one go. On the third hand, they have a lot of prisoners held in storage so they aren't getting through them very quickly. Perhaps they only eat meat sparingly, like once a week on Sundays or something. I don't think vegetarianism is right for humans - we're omnivores, look at our teeth - but we don't need to eat meat very often.
They don't seem to be big on names. When ordering the group into the boxcar, they identified them by role. "The archer" etc. This is part of the dehumanising process. Same as Rick would let the pigs be named, or how Lizzie did gave names to zombies. So I think it's more likely that the room was a shrine to their own fallen.