Ch 4 Racing v At the Races

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  • popeye13popeye13 Posts: 8,573
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    mart1711 wrote: »
    Just stumbled across these posts and have never read so much unaccurate nonsense in one thread!!!
    The highlight for me is the "cable feed" direct from the tracks that some betfair punters purchase?? Where on earth do people dream this up??
    There was also someone that said that people were getting SIS at home (£10,000 a year for domestic sub!) to gain an advantage in spread betting!! ATR have no exceptional delay inherantly or intentionaly. You could have switched pictures from doncaster between C4 and ATR today and found no difference.
    ATR is bankrolled by the bookies in a unique business model. It is highly unlikely that without ascot they will fail. Basically they use a raw feed for bookmakers and "jazz it up" a tad..
    Should money become an object then coverage will just become more basic, as it used to be..
    There are still plenty of days in the calendar that RUK have no live action and ATR does. Long live ATR the free live horse racing channel and im sure there is life in the channel yet!!
    A big debate amongst people in racing at the moment is wether live pictures will be covered from some meetings AT ALL in the future, so thats another can of worms all together!!

    Fair enough, you disagree with the comments on here, but if you are going to complain about factual errors, make sure your's are correct first!

    ATR is not a free racing channel! You cannot watch it on Sky or VM without a sub. Not free.
    And its owned by Sky not bookies!

    And can you please use paragraphs, as shown in the edited quote above!
  • steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    popeye13 wrote: »
    Fair enough, you disagree with the comments on here, but if you are going to complain about factual errors, make sure your's are correct first!

    ATR is not a free racing channel! You cannot watch it on Sky or VM without a sub. Not free.
    And its owned by Sky not bookies!

    And can you please use paragraphs, as shown in the edited quote above!
    ATR is majority owned by racecourses and operates through a joint venture partnership between BSkyB and Arena Leisure Plc.

    At The Races is made by SIS which is owned by Ladbrokes (23%) William Hill (19.5%) Betfred (7.5%) plus Leicester, Thirsk, Catterick and Stratford have a share in SIS.

    Therefore as ATR are based in SIS buildings in Milton Keynes and the company make all the main shows you could argue the bookmakers have a large strangle hold over ATR's presentation and existence.

    At The Races is available on all Virgin Media's packages without paying an extra fee.

    The deal between Arena Leisure and SIS to provide the presentation of the racecourses is up for renewal in 2016.
  • suffolkbluesuffolkblue Posts: 4,047
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    I still wish ATR would put the SP,s at the end of the race instead of just jockey and trainer etc surley it can't be that hard can it. Plus for me it would make it more enjoyable.
  • mart1711mart1711 Posts: 68
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    popeye13 wrote: »
    Fair enough, you disagree with the comments on here, but if you are going to complain about factual errors, make sure your's are correct first!

    ATR is not a free racing channel! You cannot watch it on Sky or VM without a sub. Not free.
    And its owned by Sky not bookies!

    And can you please use paragraphs, as shown in the edited quote above!

    Well i quite often post from my iphone and text syntax is rarely questioned, but hey ho!!

    ATR charge no carriage fee as was set out as when they formed the channel and subsequently reformed the channel.

    Who spoke about ownership of the channel? BskyB's input to the channel is minimal. All content is produced by SIS (owned by and run for the bookmaking industry) and is the identical content supplied to bookmakers with additional presenter inserts and grapics etc.

    Advertising on the channel is exclusively by bookmakers, race sponsors, and bloodstock traders, with these facts being true im sure it is fair to say that the channel is uniqely funded and bankrolled by the bookmakers.

    Content that is already being broadcast is simply being allowed to be relayed for minimal cost by the rights owners (the racecourses that are covered by the channel). This is because racing, particularly low grade racing, needs tv more than tv needs racing. The courses need it for exposure to the sport, they also need it so people bet on the races. No betting = no racing.. Simple as that.

    So in summary i stand by my original comment as being just, fair, and correct.
  • Armagideon TimeArmagideon Time Posts: 2,412
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    This weekend, At The Races will cover an Ascot meeting for the very last time, before Racing UK takes over the non-terrestrial TV rights from the Royal meeting next month. Now I can understand why Ascot have done this - to fall in line with other rights holders who are fully aligned to RUK, as well as Channel 4 - but by moving to RUK, this means that whereas an Ascot meeting was the sole meeting covered by ATR on an afternoon, now it has to share space with other RUK meetings.

    Here are examples of meetings that Ascot will now have to share coverage with:

    Royal Ascot Tuesday - Thirsk
    Royal Ascot Wednesday - Hamilton
    Royal Ascot Friday - Market Rasen; Redcar
    Royal Ascot Saturday - Ayr; Newmarket; Redcar
    (N.B. On Thursday, there is no other RUK meeting that day)

    Shergar Cup, August - Haydock; Newmarket; Redcar

    Champions Day, October - Catterick; Cheltenham; Kelso

    Lee Mottershead made the observation in Monday's Racing Post that Ascot have gone from a channel - in ATR - which can reach up to 500,000 to a channel (RUK) which has less than 50,000 subscribers.

    This on top of the combined total of 3.5 million viewers lost when the terrestrial coverage of the Royal meeting moved from BBC to C4 last year.
  • swingalegswingaleg Posts: 102,981
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    Ascot on Saturday won't be the only meeting on ATR - they're also covering Hexham, Lingfield and any Irish meetings that are on

    On Friday they have Lingfield

    I suspect there's never been an occasion when ATR just had Ascot and no other meeting, even during the Royal meeting
  • steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    I am no fan of RUK in fact I would like to see the back of them but to defend them, ATR would have had a meeting with them and had adverts so it's not much different.

    RUK should be investigated for their dominance of UK racing football clubs can't sell their tv rights to themselves.

    I see The Jockey Club have joined forces with a lawyers group today , strange bedfellows I think maybe they are anticipating some legal issues in the future when the tv rights come back around.

    They tried to get the Irish racing off ATR they just want everything and that's not how things work in this country there needs to be competition.
  • BigOrangeBigOrange Posts: 59,653
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    RUK has definitely been a huge disappointment. Poor value especially for online customers as the feed is fairly poor quality. And still they don't offer HD even on Sky, which in this day and age and for such an expensive service is incredible. Horse racing is one sport that benefits greatly from HD quality and yet nobody apart from Channel 4 is offering it, and even on C4 they will use SD feeds from some tracks.
  • THOMOTHOMO Posts: 7,446
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    I am no fan of RUK in fact I would like to see the back of them but to defend them, ATR would have had a meeting with them and had adverts so it's not much different.

    RUK should be investigated for their dominance of UK racing football clubs can't sell their tv rights to themselves.

    I see The Jockey Club have joined forces with a lawyers group today , strange bedfellows I think maybe they are anticipating some legal issues in the future when the tv rights come back around.

    They tried to get the Irish racing off ATR they just want everything and that's not how things work in this country there needs to be competition.
    I think Racing UK is entitled to have the Racing right's that they originally bid for fair and squaire and that they should not be investigated for their dominance of UK Racing and i don't have or subscribe to Racing UK.
    Ian.
  • steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    THOMO wrote: »
    I think Racing UK is entitled to have the Racing right's that they originally bid for fair and squaire and that they should not be investigated for their dominance of UK Racing and i don't have or subscribe to Racing UK.
    Ian.

    Racing UK is owned by The Jockey Club ie they give their own courses to themselves.

    So they have not bid fair and square.
  • THOMOTHOMO Posts: 7,446
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    Racing UK is owned by The Jockey Club ie they give their own courses to themselves.

    So they have not bid fair and square.
    Well they make the rules of racing and own the majority of the major racecourses, so if they want the rights they are entitled to them.
    Ian.
  • steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    THOMO wrote: »
    Well they make the rules of racing and own the majority of the major racecourses, so if they want the rights they are entitled to them.
    Ian.

    No they are not entitled to because if you owned a tv channel and wanted to have the rights to one of their courses you can't because they won't sell you the rights therefore they are denying competition which is illegal.

    They don't make the rules, the BHA make the rules and the monopolies commission need to look at both ATR and Racing UK.

    As I said no other sport can you sell your own rights to yourself and deny any other channel from bidding, football is sold in packages to Sky, BT etc it is time racing was sold in packages.
  • THOMOTHOMO Posts: 7,446
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    No they are not entitled to because if you owned a tv channel and wanted to have the rights to one of their courses you can't because they won't sell you the rights therefore they are denying competition which is illegal.

    They don't make the rules, the BHA make the rules and the monopolies commission need to look at both ATR and Racing UK.

    As I said no other sport can you sell your own rights to yourself and deny any other channel from bidding, football is sold in packages to Sky, BT etc it is time racing was sold in packages.

    Your wrong there, because Channel 4 have the free to air rights to all the major meetings at the major courses in the UK whether they belong to the Jockey Club or not.
    Ian.
  • steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    THOMO wrote: »
    Your wrong there, because Channel 4 have the free to air rights to all the major meetings at the major courses in the UK whether they belong to the Jockey Club or not.
    Ian.

    I'm talking about non terrestrial rights not free to air.
  • THOMOTHOMO Posts: 7,446
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    I'm talking about non terrestrial rights not free to air.

    Well as Channel 4 have the major free to air rights I see nothing wrong with Racing UK and At The Races have the exclusive subscription rights as it's shared between 2 channels and the premier league rights are shared between 2 channels. I would actually prefer racing and premier league football to be on one channel whether subscription or free to air.
    Ian.
  • Armagideon TimeArmagideon Time Posts: 2,412
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    Been watching ATR today and so far no mention has been made about their Ascot swansong.

    Also, they haven't sent an presenter to Ascot today. Make of that what you will.
  • steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    Been watching ATR today and so far no mention has been made about their Ascot swansong.

    Also, they haven't sent an presenter to Ascot today. Make of that what you will.

    They are not promoting their rival why would they, they didn't with Kelso and Perth either.

    What do you want them to say "hey from June make sure you retune to Racing UK to see Ascot" :confused:
  • Armagideon TimeArmagideon Time Posts: 2,412
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    steveh31 wrote: »
    They are not promoting their rival why would they, they didn't with Kelso and Perth either.

    What do you want them to say "hey from June make sure you retune to Racing UK to see Ascot" :confused:

    Obviously they wouldn't mention the rival channel, but being Ascot is - now was - their jewel in their crown, I would have thought something would have been said (like the BBC made mention of their last ever Ascot coverage in October 2012).

    I wonder if ATR ever contemplated the "Channel 4 blackmail stunt", by threatening to pull out of all coverage period if they lost coverage of their flagship course?
  • steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
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    Obviously they wouldn't mention the rival channel, but being Ascot is - now was - their jewel in their crown, I would have thought something would have been said (like the BBC made mention of their last ever Ascot coverage in October 2012).

    I wonder if ATR ever contemplated the "Channel 4 blackmail stunt", by threatening to pull out of all coverage period if they lost coverage of their flagship course?

    Channel 4 don't use many ATR tracks apart from Doncaster, Lingfield and Newcastle so I doubt it plus ATR don't have any gripes with C4 do they?
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