In vino veritas - Terry not as clever as he likes to make out

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,093
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    I never studied latin so the only bit of the highlighted sentence I understood was the last two words.

    The Fonz was great though wasn't he.:D

    I had a painfully embarrassing crush on Mr Cunningham.:D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,004
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    Your comments were snidey, underhand personal digs when I'd already held my hands up about the alternative pronunciation. You obviously felt the need to have a go, twice in fact, unprovoked, whereas I made an initial comment about someone who couldn't care less as they aren't reading this.

    Are you not capable of pointing out such a mistake without putting someone down? Why try to reduce an enjoyable thread to such a level?

    My last comment wasn't intended to be nasty that's why I put the 'grin smiley' next to it :confused: I was simply trying to offer a small olive branch to lighten things up but then again I have a sense of humour...

    You have a sense of humour about others' percieved mistakes or shortcomings....and a distinct lack of humour when it is yourself who is the butt of the joke.

    Re. Putting someone down. What were your intentions toward Terry with your initial post?

    As for "having a go", my first comment was to point out that, despite your claims that everyone was right, your original post was incorrect as it claimed Terry was "completely wrong". This is a fair comment and the logic is near perfect.
    The irony of your original comment against Terry is undeniable and quite humorous (to me anyway) so pointing this out was the purpose of my second post.

    You seem happy to dish it out (to Terry and to myself) but not to take it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 190
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    My latin teacher pronounced Vs as Ws. Sadly I can remember more stories about my teacher's behaviour than about latin itself. He once called a girl 'you fat cow' (in English).:eek:

    Oh wait...I can remember something..."Puella est Pulchra"
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,253
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    Well if that is indeed the case then I am the muppet and I stand corrected but according to the OED and my old uni lecturer it is pronounced with the V.

    I should know better than to post off the top of my head..

    I made the same mistake on a thread last night because I thought Terry was wrong!:o

    I still think in weeno weritas sounds effing daft though!
  • welshnannywelshnanny Posts: 229
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    Whatever,will Werne win???
  • JonDoeJonDoe Posts: 31,598
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    Fringo wrote: »
    I love the fact that Terry has managed to say something that has encouraged a rather erudite thread and show how scholarly so many of the FMs are!

    Not usual in BB!

    You should've seen us five or six years ago. We were the pride of the internet back then.

    Come to think of it, it all started going downhill around May 2003. :o
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 164
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    I made the same mistake on a thread last night because I thought Terry was wrong!:o

    I still think in weeno weritas sounds effing daft though!

    That is how it is supposed to be though - and I'm not talking about something that I know little about; I studied Classics along with Linguistics up until my masters (I mistakenly must have imagined that we were in desperate need of translators for all those Ancient Roman and Greek immigrants :D). I stick up for Terry not because I am a big fan, but because my obsession is languages and he got it right this time.

    I suppose that it may seem strange to an English speaker that v is pronounced /w/ in Classical Latin; but it came from the Greek letter upsilon. I suppose to an English speaker, the fact that 'bh' is pronounced either w or v in Irish is weird, or that in Fijian, 'c' is not pronounced like k or s, but as the th in that. But you don't pronounce another language according to the norms of your own, if you want to pronounce it right, that is. And anyone who isn't a native English speaker would find that 'ee' is pronounced like the /i/ in every other language and 'a' is pronounced like their /e/ strange. But they don't contradict us when we speak it.
  • lollyishlollyish Posts: 9,717
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    During his discussion about Latin yesterday Terry quoted the famous latin phrase 'in vino veritas' but unless my ears deceived me pronounced it completely wrong as 'in weeno wereitas'.

    Now I know its not up there with 6 eggs make a dozen but for someone like Terry who seems to pride himself on his knowledge, I was surprised as its quite a funny mistake to make.

    I don't think he is as well read as he makes out.

    Oh I think he is.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,093
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    That is how it is supposed to be though - and I'm not talking about something that I know little about; I studied Classics along with Linguistics up until my masters (I mistakenly must have imagined that we were in desperate need of translators for all those Ancient Roman and Greek immigrants :D). I stick up for Terry not because I am a big fan, but because my obsession is languages and he got it right this time.

    I suppose that it may seem strange to an English speaker that v is pronounced /w/ in Classical Latin; but it came from the Greek letter upsilon. I suppose to an English speaker, the fact that 'bh' is pronounced either w or v in Irish is weird, or that in Fijian, 'c' is not pronounced like k or s, but as the th in that. But you don't pronounce another language according to the norms of your own, if you want to pronounce it right, that is. And anyone who isn't a native English speaker would find that 'ee' is pronounced like the /i/ in every other language and 'a' is pronounced like their /e/ strange. But they don't contradict us when we speak it.

    Its times like this when I wish we could use official IPA symbols on DS. :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 164
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    Its times like this when I wish we could use official IPA symbols on DS. :D

    One of my principal peeves is that the beautifully systematic characters of the IPA cannot be replicated on most forums. One has to resort to either giving approximates (ach!) or using x-sampa, which is the most frightfully ugly transcription system around.
  • lollyishlollyish Posts: 9,717
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    This thread has been an absolute joy to read.

    To all the scholars of dead languages and linguistic smartarses, I thankyou.

    :)
  • paralaxparalax Posts: 12,127
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    I think he has played a very clever game. He regards people voting as thick, and lets be honest how many can dispute what he is saying, he can churn out any amount of so called facts and people wouldn't know any different.

    Ask him the time and he tells you how the watch was made, where the metals came from etc. It gets a bit much.

    Good luck to him if he wins, I always say the winning game deserves it.
  • batcountrybatcountry Posts: 340
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    Pedantic wrote: »
    Ummmm.... you do realise of course... that the 'thumbs up' sign... actually meant 'death' not 'save'..... according to the Romans... :p:D

    It's like confusion over a vote to 'evict' or vote to 'save'.... The basis of a sideways clenched fist with a raised thumb was originally the equivalent to a vote to 'evict'.... ;)

    Have you been watching QI?:)
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 14,586
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    Pres.F wrote: »
    Oh I see.

    Apologies if my response seemed abrupt. I can't use smileys

    That's OK:)
  • StarpussStarpuss Posts: 12,845
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    paralax wrote: »
    I think he has played a very clever game. He regards people voting as thick, and lets be honest how many can dispute what he is saying, he can churn out any amount of so called facts and people wouldn't know any different.

    Ask him the time and he tells you how the watch was made, where the metals came from etc. It gets a bit much.

    Good luck to him if he wins, I always say the winning game deserves it.

    In the house no one can dispute what he saying as I don't think any of them can match him for his impressive breadth of knowledge.

    Out in the DS world it's a different matter. We can dispute him, as this thread shows....as yet he hasn't been wrong as far as I know but the show isn't over yet....:) No one knows everything.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,253
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    That is how it is supposed to be though - and I'm not talking about something that I know little about; I studied Classics along with Linguistics up until my masters (I mistakenly must have imagined that we were in desperate need of translators for all those Ancient Roman and Greek immigrants :D). I stick up for Terry not because I am a big fan, but because my obsession is languages and he got it right this time.

    I suppose that it may seem strange to an English speaker that v is pronounced /w/ in Classical Latin; but it came from the Greek letter upsilon. I suppose to an English speaker, the fact that 'bh' is pronounced either w or v in Irish is weird, or that in Fijian, 'c' is not pronounced like k or s, but as the th in that. But you don't pronounce another language according to the norms of your own, if you want to pronounce it right, that is. And anyone who isn't a native English speaker would find that 'ee' is pronounced like the /i/ in every other language and 'a' is pronounced like their /e/ strange. But they don't contradict us when we speak it.


    Thank you for your post - you are very smart - I suppose in vino veritas has become such a well-worn phrase that you just expect it to be pronounced that way, but obviously Terry is a stickler for the correct way and I won't knock him for that.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 164
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    Thank you for your post - you are very smart - I suppose in vino veritas has become such a well-worn phrase that you just expect it to be pronounced that way, but obviously Terry is a stickler for the correct way and I won't knock him for that.

    Thank you :). You're definitely right - people expect it to be pronounced with a v, firstly because people are not used to the idea of it being a w, and secondly, because the phrase is so often used with the Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation (not helped by the fact that many schools teach this modern-Italianised variant rather than the standard Classical pronunciation.) I'm really pleased that Terry stuck with the original pronunciation - it's something that was a pleasant surprise from BB, especially since I very much dislike the Ecc. pronunciation.
  • MootleMootle Posts: 35,232
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    I'm no linguist but I was under the impression that V makes a W sound in Latin?

    That's how I was taught to say it:sleep:
  • MootleMootle Posts: 35,232
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    welshnanny wrote: »
    Whatever,will Werne win???

    wery wery funny :D:D:D
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 14,586
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    The V pronunciation probably comes from people calling wine 'vino' (veeno').
    Or could it be vice versa? Excuse my latin!:D
  • *Sparkle**Sparkle* Posts: 10,955
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    I did a year of latin, and obviously did the duff new fangled version, because we pronounced our Vs like in English.

    I thought that Terry knew something I didn't or that it was all part of the joke. :o
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 154
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    So Terry knows how to pronounce Classical Latin properly, adding to his broad intelligence, rather than taking away from it.[/QUOTE]

    :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,749
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    Ah, mange tout Terry, mange tout...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,680
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    Pres.F wrote: »
    You have a sense of humour about others' percieved mistakes or shortcomings....and a distinct lack of humour when it is yourself who is the butt of the joke.

    Re. Putting someone down. What were your intentions toward Terry with your initial post?

    As for "having a go", my first comment was to point out that, despite your claims that everyone was right, your original post was incorrect as it claimed Terry was "completely wrong". This is a fair comment and the logic is near perfect.
    The irony of your original comment against Terry is undeniable and quite humorous (to me anyway) so pointing this out was the purpose of my second post.

    You seem happy to dish it out (to Terry and to myself) but not to take it.

    You are getting rather silly now and seem intent on going round in circles. I'm not going to keep repeating myself if you can't be bothered to read my replies properly. Repeating the same points without acknowledging my replies that addressed those points is laughable and certainly makes me question your intellect/debating skills. I've tried to play nice but there is always one who has to spoil things :rolleyes:

    Leave it alone and try lighten up. You might make some friends that way :p

    Feel free to have the last (repetitive) word as no doubt you will.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,680
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    That is how it is supposed to be though - and I'm not talking about something that I know little about; I studied Classics along with Linguistics up until my masters (I mistakenly must have imagined that we were in desperate need of translators for all those Ancient Roman and Greek immigrants :D). I stick up for Terry not because I am a big fan, but because my obsession is languages and he got it right this time.

    I suppose that it may seem strange to an English speaker that v is pronounced /w/ in Classical Latin; but it came from the Greek letter upsilon. I suppose to an English speaker, the fact that 'bh' is pronounced either w or v in Irish is weird, or that in Fijian, 'c' is not pronounced like k or s, but as the th in that. But you don't pronounce another language according to the norms of your own, if you want to pronounce it right, that is. And anyone who isn't a native English speaker would find that 'ee' is pronounced like the /i/ in every other language and 'a' is pronounced like their /e/ strange. But they don't contradict us when we speak it.

    From what I understand though from other posters and a quick google is that the 'v' pronunication is correct but in ecclesiastical latin and the 'w' is correct in classical latin. If as I further understand the ecclesiastical latin is the more commonly recognised then surely either is correct?
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