You are dangerously close to libel in your nasty insinuations that the money going to this charity is somehow ending up elsewhere than in care for the dogs.
Read the link to the 2012 accounts in post #420. Last page. £27,000 spend on 'keep' (presumably food and such), out of £1,337,000 total (I think total income might even have been £1.8m, giving a net income (profit?) of £0.5m.
That seems to be added to previous surplus sums of £3m to give total surplus of £3.5m, if I read that balance sheet correctly.
What happens when people give more than they need? Apparently, nothing, as the money isn't given back! And certainly no incentive in this case (or for any charity with surplus funds for that matter) to minimise expenses.
Look at all the complacent people too. They know that horrible stuff goes on but carry on eating meat, wearing fur, using animal tested cosmetics etc. That's like aiding and abetting the cruelty.
I think this is where we May differ, as I think someone can still be a lovely, kind hearted person with many nice personality traits, but still eat meat or use cosmetics. Nobody is perfect, but for most people IMO, the good outweighs the bad. People can be kind, friendly, warm hearted, a good friend/parent, giving, thoughtful etc, but still eat meat. From my pov being vegan is way down the list of what makes someone nice or not.
Erm. Yes. I have a jaded view of humanity. That's kind of the point.
Just because someone doesn't break the law it doesn't make them a good person. How many people stand by and watch other get beaten up? Or don't intervene when they see an animal being abused?
Being law abiding doesn't automatically make people good.
As above. People still stand by whilst these atrocities happen.
As I said. We will never agree. And I'm quite bored of having to justify my opinion.
Please don't feel like you have to justify anything. I enjoy hearing different people's points of view on things.
I so agree. A lady I worked with had to have a labrador puppy, it cost over 600.00, i said why are you getting this dog, she wanted it as a surprise for her hubby. I said i think your mad, your both out all day what is going to happen to the pup.
It was kept in a cage all day, how bloody cruel is that, then she got rid of it, after 3 months. Made me soooooooooooooo mad.>:(
That's absolutely awful. Poor dog.
I'm another who thinks pets are for life.
I've had four dogs in my life. My first was a present to me from my mum on my first birthday. He lived to be 20, the second we got when I was around 14 and she lived till she was 19.
My cats are 16 and 10. And my two current dogs are 6 (six months between them). The youngest dog wasn't planned. He was a rescue. The intention was to get him a good home but I couldn't part with him.
They will all be with me until the devastating day that I have to have them out to sleep. Hopefully due to old age.
My life has changed immeasurable since I got them but never once have I thought about rehoming them.
I do understand that on occasion, say somebody becomes ill etc that sometimes rehoming a pet is the best thing. But the majority of times the pet is rehomed due to the owners being imbeciles.
Exactly. In any society you're always going to have criminals, violent people, antisocial people etc, but the majority of people aren't like that. Especially somewhere like the UK, most people are decent people.
No matter what sort of person you are anyone is capable of killing in the right situation if it means saving your life over another person's that's trying to hurt you.
Look at all the complacent people too. They know that horrible stuff goes on but carry on eating meat, wearing fur, using animal tested cosmetics etc. That's like aiding and abetting the cruelty.
Precisely. How anyone can justify eating meat, wearing fur and using animal-tested cosmetics - especially when they know how those poor animals are tortured or killed for their pleasure beats me.
Erm. Yes. I have a jaded view of humanity. That's kind of the point.
Just because someone doesn't break the law it doesn't make them a good person. How many people stand by and watch other get beaten up? Or don't intervene when they see an animal being abused?
Being law abiding doesn't automatically make people good.
As above. People still stand by whilst these atrocities happen.
As I said. We will never agree. And I'm quite bored of having to justify my opinion.
Read the link to the 2012 accounts in post #420. Last page. £27,000 spend on 'keep' (presumably food and such), out of £1,337,000 total (I think total income might even have been £1.8m, giving a net income (profit?) of £0.5m.
That seems to be added to previous surplus sums of £3m to give total surplus of £3.5m, if I read that balance sheet correctly.
What happens when people give more than they need? Apparently, nothing, as the money isn't given back! And certainly no incentive in this case (or for any charity with surplus funds for that matter) to minimise expenses.
No, because presumably it goes towards costs on the following year. Your insinuations are actually making me nauseous. I am not going to continue this conversation with you. I'm done.
I think this is where we May differ, as I think someone can still be a lovely, kind hearted person with many nice personality traits, but still eat meat or use cosmetics. Nobody is perfect, but for most people IMO, the good outweighs the bad. People can be kind, friendly, warm hearted, a good friend/parent, giving, thoughtful etc, but still eat meat. From my pov being vegan is way down the list of what makes someone nice or not.
I'm sorry, Pumping Iron, I absolutely, wholeheartedly disagree with you. ANYONE who knows what goes on in the meat industry (and everyone SHOULD know where their meat comes from and how those animals are treated. Otherwise they are not fully informed of their choices), and ANYONE especially who wears real fur and wears cosmetics tested on animals is someone I abhor. You CANNOT be a 'nice ' person if you willingly use for your own vanity something that has been tested on an innocent animal. Do you know they breed dogs and cats JUST for the purposes of animal testing? Do you know what those poor little pups and kittens (yes, they are that young) go through in captivity? Do you know they are then 'sacrificed' when they are still pups and kittens? They do the same to rats, to rabbits, to monkeys. I know I sound evangelical about this but that's because I am. I make no apology for it.
If you pander to your own vanity by indulging in something that has been tested on another species, making that species SUFFER for you (not you personally) then you are worse than those who are actually doing the testing. Because it's for your own personal pleasure.
And I do not and have not worn any cosmetic tested on animals for decades, since I was old enough (early teens) to discover about it. I buy all my deodorants, shampoos, shower gels and toothpaste from places where they do NOT test on animals. I use household products from a company that does NOT test on animals. I'm not rich. In fact I have to watch every penny, so it's not expensive to do that.
I've had four dogs in my life. My first was a present to me from my mum on my first birthday. He lived to be 20, the second we got when I was around 14 and she lived till she was 19.
My cats are 16 and 10. And my two current dogs are 6 (six months between them). The youngest dog wasn't planned. He was a rescue. The intention was to get him a good home but I couldn't part with him.
They will all be with me until the devastating day that I have to have them out to sleep. Hopefully due to old age.
My life has changed immeasurable since I got them but never once have I thought about rehoming them.
I do understand that on occasion, say somebody becomes ill etc that sometimes rehoming a pet is the best thing. But the majority of times the pet is rehomed due to the owners being imbeciles.
I got my darling Smokey (beautiful black cat) aged 8 from a local, amazing cat's home because his last owner, an old lady, had gone into a care home which didn't allow animals. I am so sorry that she had to give him up, but I was also so grateful because he was so amazing and I loved him so much. I was devastated when he had to be PTS last January because we couldn't do any more for his illness.
No matter what sort of person you are anyone is capable of killing in the right situation if it means saving your life over another person's that's trying to hurt you.
Absolutely. Self-preservation kicks in. It doesn't always work, if the person is stronger than you or has a weapon.
But it's not just about killing or abuse. It's also about the nastiness of people to others. The snide remarks we make to people (in everyday life) or about people behind their backs; it's about the bullying, the heckling, the everyday day to day behaviour exhibited by every single human being on this planet at some time in their lives. I've been guilty of it. I'm not the worst offender - maybe because despite my stance on humans I do actually try to see the best in people and excuse people who are being nasty to me or to someone else. But I'm constantly disappointed.
Even if you do not use products that are tested on animals.. All the ingredients were tested on animals.
I remember reading about it a while ago. Pretty shocking when people buy it, thinking that its not been tested on animals and probably pay a higher price.
Precisely. How anyone can justify eating meat, wearing fur and using animal-tested cosmetics - especially when they know how those poor animals are tortured or killed for their pleasure beats me.
Precisely. How anyone can justify eating meat, wearing fur and using animal-tested cosmetics - especially when they know how those poor animals are tortured or killed for their pleasure beats me.
Even if you do not use products that are tested on animals.. All the ingredients were tested on animals.
I remember reading about it a while ago. Pretty shocking when people buy it, thinking that its not been tested on animals and probably pay a higher price.
I don't like that products, or the ingredients, have been tested on animals but until some other method is discovered, there's nothing else that can be done. Then again, we could use brutal serial killers, but of course, the Human Rights Act would stop this from happening. Oh, how wonderful the Human Rights Act is at times.
Precisely. How anyone can justify eating meat, wearing fur and using animal-tested cosmetics - especially when they know how those poor animals are tortured or killed for their pleasure beats me.
If wild animals in some foreign countries and people's pet dogs eat meat, why shouldn't people be allowed to either? I don't want any of the "but animals only eat meat" lark either.
*Sigh* I use meat to feed my cat because cats ARE NOT VEGETARIANS and a vegetarian diet WOULD KILL THEM.
Ridiculous, strawman argument. I don't even know why I'm engaging in it.
It makes no difference. They're still eating meat. If one species eats it, then there's nothing wrong with another species eating it as well. This is the tired old against argument that some vegetarians ALWAYS use.
If wild animals in some foreign countries and people's pet dogs eat meat, why shouldn't people be allowed to either? I don't want any of the "but animals only eat meat" lark either.
Maybe I got a bit evangelical about 'no-one should eat meat'. I do, however, believe that everyone should know what their meat goes through before it dies to go onto their plate. If people are making that choice then they should be fully informed.
I am becoming a little less tolerant as I grow older and the constant barrage of pictures of suffering animals penned up and suffering actually makes that worse.
This is getting completely off the topic of the dogs home, however, which, of course, I have also contributed to in my somewhat zealous posts. It's not meant as a personal attack on anyone.
Going back to the subject at hand; I hope that the perpetrator gets what he deserves; but I suspect that even though all those poor animals have been killed, because they are dogs and not humans, he will not. This is why I am so keen for legislation to be changed in order to make it as much of a crime to kill other animals as it is to kill humans. Because we are all equally important.
Precisely. How anyone can justify eating meat, wearing fur and using animal-tested cosmetics - especially when they know how those poor animals are tortured or killed for their pleasure beats me.
I am so with you there, Lyceum.
No, because presumably it goes towards costs on the following year. Your insinuations are actually making me nauseous. I am not going to continue this conversation with you. I'm done.
I'm sorry, Pumping Iron, I absolutely, wholeheartedly disagree with you. ANYONE who knows what goes on in the meat industry (and everyone SHOULD know where their meat comes from and how those animals are treated. Otherwise they are not fully informed of their choices), and ANYONE especially who wears real fur and wears cosmetics tested on animals is someone I abhor. You CANNOT be a 'nice ' person if you willingly use for your own vanity something that has been tested on an innocent animal. Do you know they breed dogs and cats JUST for the purposes of animal testing? Do you know what those poor little pups and kittens (yes, they are that young) go through in captivity? Do you know they are then 'sacrificed' when they are still pups and kittens? They do the same to rats, to rabbits, to monkeys. I know I sound evangelical about this but that's because I am. I make no apology for it.
If you pander to your own vanity by indulging in something that has been tested on another species, making that species SUFFER for you (not you personally) then you are worse than those who are actually doing the testing. Because it's for your own personal pleasure.
And I do not and have not worn any cosmetic tested on animals for decades, since I was old enough (early teens) to discover about it. I buy all my deodorants, shampoos, shower gels and toothpaste from places where they do NOT test on animals. I use household products from a company that does NOT test on animals. I'm not rich. In fact I have to watch every penny, so it's not expensive to do that.
I got my darling Smokey (beautiful black cat) aged 8 from a local, amazing cat's home because his last owner, an old lady, had gone into a care home which didn't allow animals. I am so sorry that she had to give him up, but I was also so grateful because he was so amazing and I loved him so much. I was devastated when he had to be PTS last January because we couldn't do any more for his illness.
Yep. Agree. Totally, utterly and wholeheartedly.
Absolutely. Self-preservation kicks in. It doesn't always work, if the person is stronger than you or has a weapon.
But it's not just about killing or abuse. It's also about the nastiness of people to others. The snide remarks we make to people (in everyday life) or about people behind their backs; it's about the bullying, the heckling, the everyday day to day behaviour exhibited by every single human being on this planet at some time in their lives. I've been guilty of it. I'm not the worst offender - maybe because despite my stance on humans I do actually try to see the best in people and excuse people who are being nasty to me or to someone else. But I'm constantly disappointed.
I can see why you hate so many now.
It's a shame you abhor me, I think you come across as quite nice.
Absolutely. Self-preservation kicks in. It doesn't always work, if the person is stronger than you or has a weapon.
But it's not just about killing or abuse. It's also about the nastiness of people to others. The snide remarks we make to people (in everyday life) or about people behind their backs; it's about the bullying, the heckling, the everyday day to day behaviour exhibited by every single human being on this planet at some time in their lives. I've been guilty of it. I'm not the worst offender - maybe because despite my stance on humans I do actually try to see the best in people and excuse people who are being nasty to me or to someone else. But I'm constantly disappointed.
Animals in a pack do pick on each other, though. Bullying, violent acts, prejudices, isolation, jealousy, malice -- you name it, it exists in their world. Self-preservation exists in all living beings, too.
Exactly my last dog was just over 18 when he passed I was devistated. My dog now Lucy is 6 another jack russell, i love her to bits.
I cant stand it when i see people getting dogs, and shoving them in cages all day it makes me so cross.
We are NOT a nation of animal lovers.
Like my husband just said, all these people are donating all this stuff now, why couldnt they do it before the fire?
Had my dog nearly ten years I would be lost without it, she is with me for life whether she likes it or not! . I agree about the cage thing what is the point in having a dog if you do that and not walk it etc. >:( Yes people could have donated more before but at least something positive has come out of this.
Looks like the hysteria about those dogs seems to have died down a bit now.
So how much did people donate to that place before this happened? I bet nobody had heard about it before?
Hasn't this highlighted a problem into why there are so many abandoned dogs everywhere? And what can be done about it?
Well, educating people about spaying and neutering, so that we don't have 'unwanted' puppies. The same with cats. Also, people should be made clearly aware of the costs and the time and caring involved in having a pet. Then maybe they would keep them and not just throw them out when they get bored of their new 'toy'.
But it will go on, because humans throw out unwanted animals as if they were trash. Sentient animals, who only wanted to be loved and wanted.
Comments
That seems to be added to previous surplus sums of £3m to give total surplus of £3.5m, if I read that balance sheet correctly.
What happens when people give more than they need? Apparently, nothing, as the money isn't given back! And certainly no incentive in this case (or for any charity with surplus funds for that matter) to minimise expenses.
I think this is where we May differ, as I think someone can still be a lovely, kind hearted person with many nice personality traits, but still eat meat or use cosmetics. Nobody is perfect, but for most people IMO, the good outweighs the bad. People can be kind, friendly, warm hearted, a good friend/parent, giving, thoughtful etc, but still eat meat. From my pov being vegan is way down the list of what makes someone nice or not.
Please don't feel like you have to justify anything. I enjoy hearing different people's points of view on things.
That's absolutely awful. Poor dog.
I'm another who thinks pets are for life.
I've had four dogs in my life. My first was a present to me from my mum on my first birthday. He lived to be 20, the second we got when I was around 14 and she lived till she was 19.
My cats are 16 and 10. And my two current dogs are 6 (six months between them). The youngest dog wasn't planned. He was a rescue. The intention was to get him a good home but I couldn't part with him.
They will all be with me until the devastating day that I have to have them out to sleep. Hopefully due to old age.
My life has changed immeasurable since I got them but never once have I thought about rehoming them.
I do understand that on occasion, say somebody becomes ill etc that sometimes rehoming a pet is the best thing. But the majority of times the pet is rehomed due to the owners being imbeciles.
As a species. I'm not a fan of humans. That pretty much sums it up.
No matter what sort of person you are anyone is capable of killing in the right situation if it means saving your life over another person's that's trying to hurt you.
Precisely. How anyone can justify eating meat, wearing fur and using animal-tested cosmetics - especially when they know how those poor animals are tortured or killed for their pleasure beats me.
I am so with you there, Lyceum.
No, because presumably it goes towards costs on the following year. Your insinuations are actually making me nauseous. I am not going to continue this conversation with you. I'm done.
I'm sorry, Pumping Iron, I absolutely, wholeheartedly disagree with you. ANYONE who knows what goes on in the meat industry (and everyone SHOULD know where their meat comes from and how those animals are treated. Otherwise they are not fully informed of their choices), and ANYONE especially who wears real fur and wears cosmetics tested on animals is someone I abhor. You CANNOT be a 'nice ' person if you willingly use for your own vanity something that has been tested on an innocent animal. Do you know they breed dogs and cats JUST for the purposes of animal testing? Do you know what those poor little pups and kittens (yes, they are that young) go through in captivity? Do you know they are then 'sacrificed' when they are still pups and kittens? They do the same to rats, to rabbits, to monkeys. I know I sound evangelical about this but that's because I am. I make no apology for it.
If you pander to your own vanity by indulging in something that has been tested on another species, making that species SUFFER for you (not you personally) then you are worse than those who are actually doing the testing. Because it's for your own personal pleasure.
And I do not and have not worn any cosmetic tested on animals for decades, since I was old enough (early teens) to discover about it. I buy all my deodorants, shampoos, shower gels and toothpaste from places where they do NOT test on animals. I use household products from a company that does NOT test on animals. I'm not rich. In fact I have to watch every penny, so it's not expensive to do that.
I got my darling Smokey (beautiful black cat) aged 8 from a local, amazing cat's home because his last owner, an old lady, had gone into a care home which didn't allow animals. I am so sorry that she had to give him up, but I was also so grateful because he was so amazing and I loved him so much. I was devastated when he had to be PTS last January because we couldn't do any more for his illness.
Yep. Agree. Totally, utterly and wholeheartedly.
Absolutely. Self-preservation kicks in. It doesn't always work, if the person is stronger than you or has a weapon.
But it's not just about killing or abuse. It's also about the nastiness of people to others. The snide remarks we make to people (in everyday life) or about people behind their backs; it's about the bullying, the heckling, the everyday day to day behaviour exhibited by every single human being on this planet at some time in their lives. I've been guilty of it. I'm not the worst offender - maybe because despite my stance on humans I do actually try to see the best in people and excuse people who are being nasty to me or to someone else. But I'm constantly disappointed.
I remember reading about it a while ago. Pretty shocking when people buy it, thinking that its not been tested on animals and probably pay a higher price.
What did you used to feed your cat?
Soya and lentils?
Because it tastes good.
I don't like that products, or the ingredients, have been tested on animals but until some other method is discovered, there's nothing else that can be done. Then again, we could use brutal serial killers, but of course, the Human Rights Act would stop this from happening. Oh, how wonderful the Human Rights Act is at times.
*Sigh* I use meat to feed my cat because cats ARE NOT VEGETARIANS and a vegetarian diet WOULD KILL THEM.
Ridiculous, strawman argument. I don't even know why I'm engaging in it.
If wild animals in some foreign countries and people's pet dogs eat meat, why shouldn't people be allowed to either? I don't want any of the "but animals only eat meat" lark either.
It makes no difference. They're still eating meat. If one species eats it, then there's nothing wrong with another species eating it as well. This is the tired old against argument that some vegetarians ALWAYS use.
Maybe I got a bit evangelical about 'no-one should eat meat'. I do, however, believe that everyone should know what their meat goes through before it dies to go onto their plate. If people are making that choice then they should be fully informed.
I am becoming a little less tolerant as I grow older and the constant barrage of pictures of suffering animals penned up and suffering actually makes that worse.
This is getting completely off the topic of the dogs home, however, which, of course, I have also contributed to in my somewhat zealous posts. It's not meant as a personal attack on anyone.
Going back to the subject at hand; I hope that the perpetrator gets what he deserves; but I suspect that even though all those poor animals have been killed, because they are dogs and not humans, he will not. This is why I am so keen for legislation to be changed in order to make it as much of a crime to kill other animals as it is to kill humans. Because we are all equally important.
Do you know how many animals are killed each year by people's cats?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-19353/Cats-kill-275-million-animals-year.html
200 million rabbits, squirrels and mice, 55 million birds, 10 million reptiles and amphibians and 230,000 bats.
All because those SELFISH HUMANS want a bloody cat.
I can see why you hate so many now.
It's a shame you abhor me, I think you come across as quite nice.
Cats really are killing machines.
I'm with you! I have had a sh*t life for the main part, but still think most people are lovely.
Oh, Pumping Iron, I really don't abhor you. Please don't take that away from my post. And, thank you.
I only wish I could do more for every animal in the world.
Animals in a pack do pick on each other, though. Bullying, violent acts, prejudices, isolation, jealousy, malice -- you name it, it exists in their world. Self-preservation exists in all living beings, too.
Had my dog nearly ten years I would be lost without it, she is with me for life whether she likes it or not!
So how much did people donate to that place before this happened? I bet nobody had heard about it before?
Hasn't this highlighted a problem into why there are so many abandoned dogs everywhere? And what can be done about it?
Well, educating people about spaying and neutering, so that we don't have 'unwanted' puppies. The same with cats. Also, people should be made clearly aware of the costs and the time and caring involved in having a pet. Then maybe they would keep them and not just throw them out when they get bored of their new 'toy'.
But it will go on, because humans throw out unwanted animals as if they were trash. Sentient animals, who only wanted to be loved and wanted.