I'm firmly in the 'as long as I've a roof over my head, friends who make me laugh and everyone I love has their health I don't care' camp, but unfortunately my OH has a tendancy to be a bit green. I couldn't give a stuff and can't bear conversations that revolve around how much someone spent on stuff, it's not just vain and snobby but incredibly boring.
I thought you were talking about me for a moment there:D Here Here...I can count my friends on one hand, and I give them a wide berth as well. Keep my business well and truly to myself and treat people as you would like to be treated.....here endeth the lesson:D:cool:
There is an undercurrent of deep unhappiness and spitefulness that I have never seen before coupled with an absolute failure for people to take any responsibility for the causes or solutions. Everything seems to be someone else's fault - MPs, councils, teachers, nurses, social workers, bankers, parents, childless people...list goes on and on. I'm tired of hearing the phrase "they should do something about that".
That's not new at all. Human beings have always been generally reluctant to accept responsibility for their own misfortune. Look back to the Middle Ages and witch hysteria - if your milk curdled it wasn't your fault, it was because a witch put a curse on it.
Look at some of the religious thought processes: if something bad happens Satan did it, if something good happens it is attributed to God. Adam didn't eat the apple because he chose to, he was hag ridden by Eve. If a man cheats it's the other woman's fault.
During the Cold War the Communists were at fault in the west,in the USSR it was all the fault of the Capitalists. In post ww1 Germany it was the fault of the Novemberbrecher, and the Jews and homosexuals. The examples go on and on. To the Muslim extremists it's the fault of the west, to the west it's the fault of the Muslim extremists, etc.
I agree, sometimes something new can make you feel happy and it's nice to have nice things. I work to pay for them and I'm not in debt so why not. I wouldn't buy something just to keep up with the Joneses though.
There is an undercurrent of deep unhappiness and spitefulness that I have never seen before coupled with an absolute failure for people to take any responsibility for the causes or solutions
Although I do also agree with this. Every thing seems to be a race now and the pure spite you see everywhere, even in TV forums towards imaginary characters is astounding.
I sometimes wonder if we are all more exposed to this because of the internet or if the internet magnifies it like an echo chamber. I've liked things in the past such as a song or a group and then discovered on-line the pure amount of bile towards them and the people that like them. In the past I would have been blissfully unaware of it all.
I will confess though I'm not a fan of hand made stuff,.
That's not new at all. Human beings have always been generally reluctant to accept responsibility for their own misfortune. Look back to the Middle Ages and witch hysteria - if your milk curdled it wasn't your fault, it was because a witch put a curse on it.
Look at some of the religious thought processes: if something bad happens Satan did it, if something good happens it is attributed to God. Adam didn't eat the apple because he chose to, he was hag ridden by Eve. If a man cheats it's the other woman's fault.
During the Cold War the Communists were at fault in the west,in the USSR it was all the fault of the Capitalists. In post ww1 Germany it was the fault of the Novemberbrecher, and the Jews and homosexuals. The examples go on and on. To the Muslim extremists it's the fault of the west, to the west it's the fault of the Muslim extremists, etc.
That's interesting. I hadn't thought of it this way before
I will confess though I'm not a fan of hand made stuff,.
Sorry, big snip there! No, some of the stuff I get can be a bit "random", but to be honest, no more random than some of the shop bought stuff I got before. I honestly don't think most my family understand my taste at all!
I disagree and I will strike down the first person that suggests I am a spiteful or nasty person.
Are you god? Seems to me that's the sort of thing god would say. In a big voice. If god was online would he come to DS for a bit of striking? Who does god blame when things don't go well for him? The council?
Sorry, big snip there! No, some of the stuff I get can be a bit "random", but to be honest, no more random than some of the shop bought stuff I got before. I honestly don't think most my family understand my taste at all!
it's okay and it's good to know it's not just me then!! I sometimes look at things I get and think really? They probably think the same about the stuff I get them too though!:D
I don't know what it is about handmade stuff, but it just can't get behind it at all. Cards are fine no problems there, it's the other stuff.
It's always been the same way throughout history, it's just more noticeable now because there is more wealth and more material goods to spend that money on.
Money = power. In the past it's meant direct power over the poorer, either by the rich owning land and having the poor work it, or by using that money for political influence. Now it's having a better house or a better car or nicer clothes than other people.
It's not because society has gone to the dogs or we're becoming more selfish and spiteful - it's just a different manifestation of human nature which has been evident throughout the ages.
I'm not really directing my opinion at people who are genuinely well off. More toward those who insist on spending what they don't have just to look flash. It's pathetic. I was brought up to save up if I wanted anything. I don't even have or want a credit card because I'd feel uncomfortable about spending money I don't really have.
What's so wrong with waiting a while until you can afford something off your own back instead of using a credit and then having to make sure you can still pay come the time? I probably sound horribly old fashioned but so be it.
People have always been like this. Not all people are though. My mobile phone is about 5 years old, my car predates even that, and I'm still running Windows XP. That said if I had money, i'd upgrade my things. Not to show off though. It's just nice to have nice stuff.
Oh, I agree. It's not all about showing off at all and I probably should have clarified that. It's great to be able to get something you have wanted for ages, or to indulge in a treat like an outing to the West End or something. But I wait until I can genuinely afford new things. I don't spend what I don't have and then moan I'm broke, and then continue to go round and round in the same cycle.
You're not being sill at all... it's everything I hate about Britain at the moment.
I don't feel any of that here in Thailand (teaching and living in rural Thailand, not in the resorty type places). Yes, there's gossip but not jealousy or spitefulness. Everything is communual and people share and are very generous, even those who have very little.
When I asked some of my students what they would buy if they won the lottery... most had no idea what to do with the money, because they aren't materially driven. Most British kids would have a list they prepared earlier.
I just find how empty life is in the UK. Everything is so focused on what you have or what you want. It's a very selfish, self centred way of life.
You're generalising - and I doubt if you've done enough research into this apparent change in society to make such a sweeping statement. It's not just a British trait - it's not just British kids who dream of instant fame and the perceived wealth that goes with it - American Idol and similar shows worldwide exhibit similar naivety. i.e.fame and wealth make for happiness.
Reading this thread, I can really relate to what you are saying and feeling. I, too, am approaching 30 (only 2 years to go for me!!) I think the older you get, the more you notice things like this. I always think back to being about 19 and not having a care in the world and remember all the good things, but I think we do have a tendancy to remember the past with rose tinted glasses whilst forgetting the bad stuff that was going on at that time. I try to stay positive and happy, but some days you do feel a bit down about the state of the world we live in.
I think that when somebody's attention has been on acquiring more and more material 'stuff' that person is less likely to have even known about much of the bad stuff let alone have the capacity to forget what they didn't even know about at the time.
People are just sick of being taken advantage of by those that hold all the power at the moment (politicians, fat-cats, liberals etc). We need to tear down our broken society and replace it with a new, fairer one, where hard-work is rewarded, and scum get treated like scum.
Who gets to define who the scum are?
Could rich people class poor people as the scum?
You're generalising - and I doubt if you've done enough research into this apparent change in society to make such a sweeping statement. It's not just a British trait - it's not just British kids who dream of instant fame and the perceived wealth that goes with it - American Idol and similar shows worldwide exhibit similar naivety. i.e.fame and wealth make for happiness.
Of course the OP is generalising. Obviously going by this thread they aren't talking about 100% of the population.
Of course the OP was speaking generally, I don't think that they ever claimed to be speaking about everybody.
I think that the question is whether it is worse now than it ever was or whether there have been times when it hasn't been as bad.
You say that it's not just a British trait and then go on to cite similar examples in other countries.
But a poster has already written a post to demonstrate that from their experiences the culture is very different in Thailand.
Or are we talking about how much of a significant percentage of the population of any culture it happens to?
Is it (generally) more evident in cultures that have a very strong corporate media culture?
I hate it when people act like society is so bad now. People like to look at the past though rose tinted glasses. I'm sure when I get older, I will look back and think about the good old days, and how awful society is now.
People are just sick of being taken advantage of by those that hold all the power at the moment (politicians, fat-cats, liberals etc). We need to tear down our broken society and replace it with a new, fairer one, where hard-work is rewarded, and scum get treated like scum.
People always have to blame someone. Sometimes things happen, and it's hard to prevent. Maybe you should just stop blaming others, and actually try and do something about it.
I hate it when people act like society is so bad now. People like to look at the past though rose tinted glasses. I'm sure when I get older, I will look back and think about the good old days, and how awful society is now.
But that was the point that some admitted to. They didn't say that they 'liked' to look back to the past with rose tinted glasses, they were making the point that because they see their own past with rose tinted glasses they may not have seen things from a fuller and rounded perspective at the time. Just as you may not right now.
You say that you hate it when people look back at the past and compare it to now. But how can you hate it when you yourself didn't experience their past? You're judging other people's experiences based on the perspective of your own subjective experience. What's to hate? You can't draw a conclusion about the past based on a past that you didn't live.
In the future you may look back in the past and compare that future society with the one that you're currently living in right now. It wouldn't mean that the conclusions you draw from that would be wrong.
People are just sick of being taken advantage of by those that hold all the power at the moment (politicians, fat-cats, liberals etc). We need to tear down our broken society and replace it with a new, fairer one, where hard-work is rewarded, and scum get treated like scum.
LOL. What do you mean by 'Liberal'? I would have thought that socialist collectivism was your natural enemy rather than a philospohy which promotes individual freedoms. (Although I would guess you are a 'freedom to...' rather than a 'freedom from'. Margaret Thatcher used a free-market Liberal philosophy. Are you saying it's because of her that British society is (in your words) 'broken' (whatever that means)?
But that was the point that some admitted to. They didn't say that they 'liked' to look back to the past with rose tinted glasses, they were making the point that because they see their own past with rose tinted glasses they may not have seen things from a fuller and rounded perspective at the time. Just as you may not right now.
You say that you hate it when people look back at the past and compare it to now. But how can you hate it when you yourself didn't experience their past? You're judging other people's experiences based on the perspective of your own subjective experience. What's to hate? You can't draw a conclusion about the past based on a past that you didn't live.
In the future you may look back in the past and compare that future society with the one that you're currently living in right now. It wouldn't mean that the conclusions you draw from that would be wrong.
I know I didn't experience the past, but of course it wasn't perfect and bad things still happened. Just like now. People seem to have some mindset than in the 50's, murder, rape cases, muggings etc were rare. People always respected their elders, unlike now, and teenagers are awful now. And everyone seemed to live great lifes. Of course their were great things in the 50's, but times move on, and now theirs great things, and people will look back at in the future.
I know I didn't experience the past, but of course it wasn't perfect and bad things still happened. Just like now. People seem to have some mindset than in the 50's, murder, rape cases, muggings etc were rare. People always respected their elders, unlike now, and teenagers are awful now. And everyone seemed to live great lifes. Of course their were great things in the 50's, but times move on, and now theirs great things, and people will look back at in the future.
I don't disagree with anything that you've said there.
I think that it's more about whether people, in general, as a whole, are worse than then, and whether a higher percentage of the population are more selfish and materialistic now than at a previous time in our history.
I don't know how somebody would measure that but it's something I'd find interesting just to see if it looks like there has been a definite shift.
It is the tabloid culture, the tabloids and for me that includes the trashy celeb magazines and the '50 worst' type TV programmes are full of micky taking, close up photo's of a bit of sweat under a cleb's arm, or a stray hair, it is all micky taking, the very worst has been making fun of people with ginger hair, the amount of children, and my son was one of them that were teased and bullied was down to adults on TV making fun of it.
People seem to think nothing of making really personal remarks highlighting something less than perfect. It is unkind, and to some of the victims with low self esteem it is really damaging.
Oh goodness, I never meant to imply that the past is some kind of honey and sunshine place and everything now is terrible. No, not at all. But I have noticed, in a very few years, this rise in spitefulness and crass one-up-manship that the OP has noticed too. Its very particular to now in its manifestation.
Of course the OP is generalising. Obviously going by this thread they aren't talking about 100% of the population.
Of course the OP was speaking generally, I don't think that they ever claimed to be speaking about everybody.
I think that the question is whether it is worse now than it ever was or whether there have been times when it hasn't been as bad.
You say that it's not just a British trait and then go on to cite similar examples in other countries.
But a poster has already written a post to demonstrate that from their experiences the culture is very different in Thailand.
Or are we talking about how much of a significant percentage of the population of any culture it happens to?
Is it (generally) more evident in cultures that have a very strong corporate media culture?
I responded to another poster - not the OP.
Experience world over is diverse - has Thailand become the benchmark? Believe me I know more than one Thai who dreams and hopes that appearance and perhaps some other talent might lead to a more properous future nothing wrong with that - but let's not pretend it is solely a British trait.
Really? What is your evidence for that? And what does it have to do with this thread?
Nothing - but to continue with the stereotypes:-
The Brits consider themselves superior to everyone else.
The Yanks are loud and brash.
The Scots are tight.
The Irish are thick.
The Aussies are vulgar.
The Latinos are greasy.
Does anyone care to add to the list of preconceived prejudice?
Comments
I thought you were talking about me for a moment there:D Here Here...I can count my friends on one hand, and I give them a wide berth as well. Keep my business well and truly to myself and treat people as you would like to be treated.....here endeth the lesson:D:cool:
That's not new at all. Human beings have always been generally reluctant to accept responsibility for their own misfortune. Look back to the Middle Ages and witch hysteria - if your milk curdled it wasn't your fault, it was because a witch put a curse on it.
Look at some of the religious thought processes: if something bad happens Satan did it, if something good happens it is attributed to God. Adam didn't eat the apple because he chose to, he was hag ridden by Eve. If a man cheats it's the other woman's fault.
During the Cold War the Communists were at fault in the west,in the USSR it was all the fault of the Capitalists. In post ww1 Germany it was the fault of the Novemberbrecher, and the Jews and homosexuals. The examples go on and on. To the Muslim extremists it's the fault of the west, to the west it's the fault of the Muslim extremists, etc.
I agree, sometimes something new can make you feel happy and it's nice to have nice things. I work to pay for them and I'm not in debt so why not. I wouldn't buy something just to keep up with the Joneses though.
Although I do also agree with this. Every thing seems to be a race now and the pure spite you see everywhere, even in TV forums towards imaginary characters is astounding.
I sometimes wonder if we are all more exposed to this because of the internet or if the internet magnifies it like an echo chamber. I've liked things in the past such as a song or a group and then discovered on-line the pure amount of bile towards them and the people that like them. In the past I would have been blissfully unaware of it all.
I will confess though I'm not a fan of hand made stuff,.
That's interesting. I hadn't thought of it this way before
Sorry, big snip there! No, some of the stuff I get can be a bit "random", but to be honest, no more random than some of the shop bought stuff I got before. I honestly don't think most my family understand my taste at all!
Are you god? Seems to me that's the sort of thing god would say. In a big voice. If god was online would he come to DS for a bit of striking? Who does god blame when things don't go well for him? The council?
it's okay and it's good to know it's not just me then!! I sometimes look at things I get and think really?
I don't know what it is about handmade stuff, but it just can't get behind it at all. Cards are fine no problems there, it's the other stuff.
I'm not really directing my opinion at people who are genuinely well off. More toward those who insist on spending what they don't have just to look flash. It's pathetic. I was brought up to save up if I wanted anything. I don't even have or want a credit card because I'd feel uncomfortable about spending money I don't really have.
What's so wrong with waiting a while until you can afford something off your own back instead of using a credit and then having to make sure you can still pay come the time? I probably sound horribly old fashioned but so be it.
Oh, I agree. It's not all about showing off at all and I probably should have clarified that. It's great to be able to get something you have wanted for ages, or to indulge in a treat like an outing to the West End or something. But I wait until I can genuinely afford new things. I don't spend what I don't have and then moan I'm broke, and then continue to go round and round in the same cycle.
I think that when somebody's attention has been on acquiring more and more material 'stuff' that person is less likely to have even known about much of the bad stuff let alone have the capacity to forget what they didn't even know about at the time.
Who gets to define who the scum are?
Could rich people class poor people as the scum?
Of course the OP is generalising. Obviously going by this thread they aren't talking about 100% of the population.
Of course the OP was speaking generally, I don't think that they ever claimed to be speaking about everybody.
I think that the question is whether it is worse now than it ever was or whether there have been times when it hasn't been as bad.
You say that it's not just a British trait and then go on to cite similar examples in other countries.
But a poster has already written a post to demonstrate that from their experiences the culture is very different in Thailand.
Or are we talking about how much of a significant percentage of the population of any culture it happens to?
Is it (generally) more evident in cultures that have a very strong corporate media culture?
But that was the point that some admitted to. They didn't say that they 'liked' to look back to the past with rose tinted glasses, they were making the point that because they see their own past with rose tinted glasses they may not have seen things from a fuller and rounded perspective at the time. Just as you may not right now.
You say that you hate it when people look back at the past and compare it to now. But how can you hate it when you yourself didn't experience their past? You're judging other people's experiences based on the perspective of your own subjective experience. What's to hate? You can't draw a conclusion about the past based on a past that you didn't live.
In the future you may look back in the past and compare that future society with the one that you're currently living in right now. It wouldn't mean that the conclusions you draw from that would be wrong.
LOL. What do you mean by 'Liberal'? I would have thought that socialist collectivism was your natural enemy rather than a philospohy which promotes individual freedoms. (Although I would guess you are a 'freedom to...' rather than a 'freedom from'. Margaret Thatcher used a free-market Liberal philosophy. Are you saying it's because of her that British society is (in your words) 'broken' (whatever that means)?
If you are, I'd agree with you to some extent.
I don't disagree with anything that you've said there.
I think that it's more about whether people, in general, as a whole, are worse than then, and whether a higher percentage of the population are more selfish and materialistic now than at a previous time in our history.
I don't know how somebody would measure that but it's something I'd find interesting just to see if it looks like there has been a definite shift.
People seem to think nothing of making really personal remarks highlighting something less than perfect. It is unkind, and to some of the victims with low self esteem it is really damaging.
Really? What is your evidence for that? And what does it have to do with this thread?
The Brits consider themselves superior to everyone else.
The Yanks are loud and brash.
The Scots are tight.
The Irish are thick.
The Aussies are vulgar.
The Latinos are greasy.
Does anyone care to add to the list of preconceived prejudice?