I never said I agreed with him, simply that at his age I wouldn'd give a.......toss about what others think of my opinions.
Some scars never heal for the generations that carry them, thankfully subsequent generations move on.
Its odd how people make a song and dance about the rights of the elderly and how they are equal etc etc etc and then excuse that kind of behaviour from them .Making a mockery of them being equal .
Patrick Moore makes no exceptions so he is in essence speaking about my husband and my children in his insulting rant .I take umbrage regardless of his age
I am no spring chicken myself but would be ashamed of my life to speak of a nation like that
My Mum is 96 and she bloody well knows better than to put down a whole nation and speak of them like that too
I never said I agreed with him, simply that at his age I wouldn'd give a.......toss about what others think of my opinions.
Some scars never heal for the generations that carry them, thankfully subsequent generations move on (most of them anyway).
We didn't see what they saw. We are in no position to pass judgement.
There are plenty of older people who fought and suffered in the war and don't hate all Germans. (Or all Brits, if they're German.) Ending up with nasty views like Sir Patrick's is by no means inevitable, though it is understandable.
I think he should be chucked off the BBC because he's pretty much unintelligible these days, poor guy
Poor guy. The source of his views are all to clear and it is not "reason and logic". Given what he went through I think sympathy and understanding is called for. That is not to say his views should be respected or exempt from criticism.
Some people get over such trauma, and some people never do. There by the grace of god go I.
Its odd how people make a song and dance about the rights of the elderly and how they are equal etc etc etc and then excuse that kind of behaviour from them .Making a mockery of them being equal .
I am no spring chicken myself but would be ashamed of my life to speak of a nation like that
My Mum is 96 and she bloody well knows better than to put down a whole nation and speak of them like that too
Good for your mum she sounds lovely. Where did she fight?
My great uncle survived a Japanese prisoner of war camp and hated the Japanese for the rest of his life, He knew there was no logic to it but he simply couldn't forget.
My Grandad's life on the other hand was saved by a German officer in the african desert - He was able to move past viewing Germans as the "enemy". We are each shaped by our experiences.
Patrick Moore said and I quote ‘The only good Kraut is a dead Kraut,’
I have German family and being 89 is no excuse for a hate filled rant on a whole nation.
Don't allow a quote from one man to disturb you too much. He is well known for his eccentricity and often even pokes fun at himself!
I've visited Germany many times and met lots of very nice people. It's a country I go to because when I was in School absolutely nothing was taught about WW2 history because it was too soon after the War. So I now go to visit places of WW2 interest.
I've met both West and East Germans (spend a lot of time in ex-DDR), and only once got in an 'awkward situation' with a neo-Nazi guy (i'm not conversant enough in German).......and it was a German guy who realising what was going on, came to my rescue and extricated me from what was becoming nasty. That was three years ago and we've remained friends since.
Good for your mum she sounds lovely. Where did she fight?
My great uncle survived a Japanese prisoner of war camp and hated the Japanese for the rest of his life, He knew there was no logic to it but he simply couldn't forget.
My Grandad's life on the other hand was saved by a German officer in the african desert - He was able to move past viewing Germans as the "enemy". We are each shaped by our experiences.
Well if we're going to play that game - my grandfather fought in the First World War with his two brothers and never hated anyone - ever. He came home and persuaded everyone around him in the war-torn Ireland of the 1920s to try and move past the hundreds of years of the English treating the Irish like scum in their own country - shooting them for such crimes as speaking their own language and feeding a famine etc. It depends on the individual; how they view the world they live in. You can only be shoved by grief and bitterness into illogicality if you allow yourselves to be thus shoved.
Don't allow a quote from one man to disturb you too much. He is well known for his eccentricity and often even pokes fun at himself!
I've visited Germany many times and met lots of very nice people. It's a country I go to because when I was in School absolutely nothing was taught about WW2 history because it was too soon after the War. So I now go to visit places of WW2 interest.
I've met both West and East Germans (spend a lot of time in ex-DDR), and only once got in an 'awkward situation' with a neo-Nazi guy (i'm not conversant enough in German).......and it was a German guy who realising what was going on, came to my rescue and extricated me from what was becoming nasty. That was three years ago and we've remained friends since.
Thank you , thats a lovely post .I am of the opinion that there are good and not so good people in every country in the world . I try to surround myself with the good ones and Thank Goodness so far have managed .I lived for years in Berlin and met wonderful and kind people who were horrified and ashamed of the past .
I make no excuses for a old man who should should learn to use his head and hold his tongue
Germany still seem to feel deep regret for the actions of their forefathers.
The Swastika is banned from display anywhere other than museums and other places dedicated to the war iirc. I do not think Germany could have done anything more to show their regret and horror at the actions of the Nazis, infact I think they deal with it incredibally well in most cases.
Well if we're going to play that game - my grandfather fought in the First World War with his two brothers and never hated anyone - ever. He came home and persuaded everyone around him in the war-torn Ireland of the 1920s to try and move past the hundreds of years of the English treating the Irish like scum in their own country - shooting them for such crimes as speaking their own language and feeding a famine etc. It depends on the individual; how they view the world they live in. You can only be shoved by grief and bitterness into illogicality if you allow yourselves to be thus shoved.
Whose playing games? I'm simply expressing an opinion. That is still allowed isn't it?
Here's another opinion, The world would be a far better place if we were all like your Grandad. Unfortunately Human Nature doesn't work that way.
My Mum is 96 and she bloody well knows better than to put down a whole nation and speak of them like that too
Your Mum is of the same generation as mine. My Mum would have been 94 but sadly she passed away at 86. My Dad would never talk to me about anything of the War.....nothing. But my Mum would and she told me about the bombing of Dresden.....enough to make me want to look further.
It may seem difficult to believe but there were some acts of heroism and respect on both sides. This is one little story which still brings tears to my eyes. You can Google more on it if interested.
It's a shame that someone of his obvious intellect and passion for learning and knowledge harbours such a view. Of course, I didn't experience WWII and haven't lost anyone in conflict. But I really hope that I can distinguish between people of 70 years ago and people of today if such a horrid thing were to happen to me.
I think it's a bit of typical Patrick Moore eccentricity. The only reason he hasn't met any 'good honourable decent Germans' is because he hasn't made any attempt to! As with our very own people, there are good, bad and evil and i'm sure that a man as intelligent as Sir Patrick must know that.
I didn't know about his lost love though and it seems he never got over that as he has remained a bachelor throughout his life.
Best known for his extraordinary knowledge of Astronomy he is also an expert xylophone player too.
and he is the kindest, most generous, welcoming and fascinating man I have ever met!
Whose playing games? I'm simply expressing an opinion. That is still allowed isn't it?
Here's another opinion, The world would be a far better place if we were all like your Grandad, unfortunately Human Nature doesn't work that way.
My Grandfather was in the second world war (fighting against the nazi), and held no animosity with the Germans....... He did however hate the English with a passion over something that happened hundreds of years ago, and would have been happy to see them all dead.
As you say people are different. I think Sir Patricks comments are excusable given the circumstances.
Good for your mum she sounds lovely. Where did she fight?
.
Is that supposed to be the excuse for being ignorant ? Had she fought it would have been okay to express hate for a nation ? I think not .
In fact my mums relative was shot and killed in the Croke Park massacre by a few British soldiers . She knew better than to hate all British . She was fully aware of a wartime army and reserved her hate for the few who gave the order .
Thank you , thats a lovely post .I am of the opinion that there are good and not so good people in every country in the world . I try to surround myself with the good ones and Thank Goodness so far have managed .I lived for years in Berlin and met wonderful and kind people who were horrified and ashamed of the past .
I make no excuses for a old man who should should learn to use his head and hold his tongue
Berlin is my most favourite city......and living in a village have never been a lover of cities, yet I keep going back to Berlin! Been four times now and will be going back again this year.
Unlike UK, Germany is in a difficult position with keeping war memorials. Many have to be kept under 24hr surveillance. Keeping them in place serves as a reminder which some Germans see as a part of history for which they suffered. Some areas/places also hold appeal to neo-Nazism. But eradicating them could also be seen as pandering to the very same. Germany is very much between a rock and a hard place when it comes to preservation of memorial sites.
If you missed this three part documentary on BBC i'd definitely recommend it. I've watched it that many times I know the dialogue......but still watch it!
Your Mum is of the same generation as mine. My Mum would have been 94 but sadly she passed away at 86. My Dad would never talk to me about anything of the War.....nothing. But my Mum would and she told me about the bombing of Dresden.....enough to make me want to look further.
It may seem difficult to believe but there were some acts of heroism and respect on both sides. This is one little story which still brings tears to my eyes. You can Google more on it if interested.
Thank you , I will look into it later when its quieter here and I can read it all .And thank you for the DVD info I might order it for my husband to enjoy
Berlin is amazing ,we are going on Monday for a few days to take it all in again and enjoy it .
Is that supposed to be the excuse for being ignorant ? Had she fought it would have been okay to express hate for a nation? I think not .
In fact my mums relative was shot and killed in the Croke Park massacre by a few British soldiers . She knew better than to hate all British . She was fully aware of a wartime army and reserved her hate for the few who gave the order .
No but it would have added context and perhaps made the emotion more understandable. If the love of my life had been killed I think I would find it hard to forgive (thankfully I'll never have to find out). Emotion and Reason are not always happy bedfellows.
People are far too judgemental these days. Context is everything. Judgement without empathy is simply another form of ignorance.
Thank you , I will look into it later when its quieter here and I can read it all .And thank you for the DVD info I might order it for my husband to enjoy
Berlin is amazing ,we are going on Monday for a few days to take it all in again and enjoy it .
Don't hesitate....order now! If neither of you have seen it I promise you will not be disappointed! Matt Frei is BBC's Washington correspondent but born in Berlin where his parents still live. Obviously he speaks fluent German but speaks English with a very Oxbridge accent.....quite weird!
BTW......I wish I was coming with you!! Have a great trip.
Poor guy. The source of his views are all to clear and it is not "reason and logic". Given what he went through I think sympathy and understanding is called for. That is not to say his views should be respected or exempt from criticism.
Some people get over such trauma, and some people never do. There but for the grace of god go I.
Sorry...had to correct that...otherwise it means the exact opposite of what you indtended...
No but it would have added context and perhaps made the emotion more understandable. If the love of my life had been killed I think I would find it hard to forgive (thankfully I'll never have to find out). Emotion and Reason are not always happy bedfellows.
People are far too judgemental these days. Context is everything. Judgement without empathy is simply another form of ignorance.
I agree. However getting back to my original point - having not lived through what he lived through we are in no position to pass judgement on his emotional scars.
The real villain in this story is not Moore, It is War itself and the hatreds it breeds.
Comments
Patrick Moore makes no exceptions so he is in essence speaking about my husband and my children in his insulting rant .I take umbrage regardless of his age
I am no spring chicken myself but would be ashamed of my life to speak of a nation like that
My Mum is 96 and she bloody well knows better than to put down a whole nation and speak of them like that too
There are plenty of older people who fought and suffered in the war and don't hate all Germans. (Or all Brits, if they're German.) Ending up with nasty views like Sir Patrick's is by no means inevitable, though it is understandable.
I think he should be chucked off the BBC because he's pretty much unintelligible these days, poor guy
Some people get over such trauma, and some people never do. There by the grace of god go I.
Good for your mum she sounds lovely. Where did she fight?
My great uncle survived a Japanese prisoner of war camp and hated the Japanese for the rest of his life, He knew there was no logic to it but he simply couldn't forget.
My Grandad's life on the other hand was saved by a German officer in the african desert - He was able to move past viewing Germans as the "enemy". We are each shaped by our experiences.
.Actually my MIL was abused and tortured by the Russian soldiers and had the good sense not to apply her hate to all Russian .
I've visited Germany many times and met lots of very nice people. It's a country I go to because when I was in School absolutely nothing was taught about WW2 history because it was too soon after the War. So I now go to visit places of WW2 interest.
I've met both West and East Germans (spend a lot of time in ex-DDR), and only once got in an 'awkward situation' with a neo-Nazi guy (i'm not conversant enough in German).......and it was a German guy who realising what was going on, came to my rescue and extricated me from what was becoming nasty. That was three years ago and we've remained friends since.
Well if we're going to play that game - my grandfather fought in the First World War with his two brothers and never hated anyone - ever. He came home and persuaded everyone around him in the war-torn Ireland of the 1920s to try and move past the hundreds of years of the English treating the Irish like scum in their own country - shooting them for such crimes as speaking their own language and feeding a famine etc. It depends on the individual; how they view the world they live in. You can only be shoved by grief and bitterness into illogicality if you allow yourselves to be thus shoved.
Thank you , thats a lovely post .I am of the opinion that there are good and not so good people in every country in the world . I try to surround myself with the good ones and Thank Goodness so far have managed .I lived for years in Berlin and met wonderful and kind people who were horrified and ashamed of the past .
I make no excuses for a old man who should should learn to use his head and hold his tongue
The Swastika is banned from display anywhere other than museums and other places dedicated to the war iirc. I do not think Germany could have done anything more to show their regret and horror at the actions of the Nazis, infact I think they deal with it incredibally well in most cases.
Whose playing games? I'm simply expressing an opinion. That is still allowed isn't it?
Here's another opinion, The world would be a far better place if we were all like your Grandad. Unfortunately Human Nature doesn't work that way.
It may seem difficult to believe but there were some acts of heroism and respect on both sides. This is one little story which still brings tears to my eyes. You can Google more on it if interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpDXsX1mze0
and he is the kindest, most generous, welcoming and fascinating man I have ever met!
My Grandfather was in the second world war (fighting against the nazi), and held no animosity with the Germans....... He did however hate the English with a passion over something that happened hundreds of years ago, and would have been happy to see them all dead.
As you say people are different. I think Sir Patricks comments are excusable given the circumstances.
Is that supposed to be the excuse for being ignorant ? Had she fought it would have been okay to express hate for a nation ? I think not .
In fact my mums relative was shot and killed in the Croke Park massacre by a few British soldiers . She knew better than to hate all British . She was fully aware of a wartime army and reserved her hate for the few who gave the order .
Unlike UK, Germany is in a difficult position with keeping war memorials. Many have to be kept under 24hr surveillance. Keeping them in place serves as a reminder which some Germans see as a part of history for which they suffered. Some areas/places also hold appeal to neo-Nazism. But eradicating them could also be seen as pandering to the very same. Germany is very much between a rock and a hard place when it comes to preservation of memorial sites.
If you missed this three part documentary on BBC i'd definitely recommend it. I've watched it that many times I know the dialogue......but still watch it!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Berlin-DVD/dp/B002IN81US/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335883255&sr=8-1
Thank you , I will look into it later when its quieter here and I can read it all .And thank you for the DVD info I might order it for my husband to enjoy
Berlin is amazing ,we are going on Monday for a few days to take it all in again and enjoy it .
No but it would have added context and perhaps made the emotion more understandable. If the love of my life had been killed I think I would find it hard to forgive (thankfully I'll never have to find out). Emotion and Reason are not always happy bedfellows.
People are far too judgemental these days. Context is everything. Judgement without empathy is simply another form of ignorance.
BTW......I wish I was coming with you!! Have a great trip.
Sorry...had to correct that...otherwise it means the exact opposite of what you indtended...
What a shame Mr Moore didnt apply that too .
I agree. However getting back to my original point - having not lived through what he lived through we are in no position to pass judgement on his emotional scars.
The real villain in this story is not Moore, It is War itself and the hatreds it breeds.
i love old skool diplomancy
prince phillip, silivio berlisconi
I salute you
the PC thought police cant stop you having a opinion and sticking to it
they cant erase history
like the "European civil war" and guy gibson dog
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2131484/House-European-History-museum-EU-serious.html