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Another claim of child abuse by Michael Jackson.

i4ui4u Posts: 55,132
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in Showbiz #1
On top of the claim by Wade Robson this one has surfaced....
A new sexual molestation claim has been filed against the estate of Michael Jackson by a man who claims the singer sexually abused him from the time he was 10 until he was around 15 ... this according to a new report.

The filing is sealed, but the site reports the claims are being made by James Safechuck, who appeared as a child alongside Jackson in a 1987 commercial for Pepsi.
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    dearmrmandearmrman Posts: 21,547
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    #2
    He did commit child abuse though...he may not off being a molester, but he certainly abused his power and slept with children, which would be emotional abuse at the least, but still abuse.

    Now just wait for the people to come and defend him...those people must feel it's okay for a man to sleep with children who are strangers.

    Oh and wait for the comments that say he was found not guilty...so what, does that still make the above right.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,538
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    #3
    Good point above. Good point.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,486
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    #4
    Hasnt he just had a new album released, which is making money....
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    Brummie Girl Brummie Girl Posts: 22,856
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    #5
    The Cricketer wrote: »
    Hasnt he just had a new album released, which is making money....

    Do you mean that is why this new complainant has made this allegation at this particular time to get some of this money?

    But Michael has made a lot of money since 1987, that was the year Bad was released and the Bad Tour started the following year. If money was the main objective why would the person file this complaint now and not in the intervening 22 years or so when Michael was still alive and had some major success with other albums and tours where he was making money?
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    zx50zx50 Posts: 91,295
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    #6
    Why didn't this new allegation come to light after he died? Why have they waited this long to come forward with these allegations? I sort of get the feeling that something's going on here.
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    RuinedGirlRuinedGirl Posts: 918
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    #7
    zx50 wrote: »
    Why didn't this new allegation come to light after he died? Why have they waited this long to come forward with these allegations? I sort of get the feeling that something's going on here.

    Abuse is an incredibly traumatic thing to occur, especially when it happens in childhood. It can take people years or even decades to come to terms with abuse and accept it within themselves, let alone be able to tell other people what happened to them. Not just because of the shame that goes along with it (a lot of victims of abuse, especially children, are emotionally manipulated by their abuser and made to believe that it is their fault) but also because people doubt them and accuse them of lying. Especially with celebrities who are idolised by their fans.

    The fact that Michael paid over $20 million to Jordy Chandler's family, in my opinion speaks volumes. I know he said it was just because he didn't want to go through the trial and wanted to focus on his music/touring etc. But put yourself in Michael Jackson's position. Someone has accused you of molesting a child (pretty much one of the worst things which you can be accused of.) If you're innocent and your actions around children have always been perfectly innocent, the last thing you would do is give millions of dollars to someone who has made up disgusting vile lies about you and tried to ruin your life. You'd most likely say ''Take me to court. I'll be found innocent.'' because you would know that there isn't a single thing the prosecution could bring up which would make you look even remotely guilty. I really think Michael paid him off because he knew he was guilty and was worried that various things would be brought up by the prosecution which would make it obvious.

    It's quite disturbing to me how much he is still worshiped, and that people still buy his albums. I know there are some fans who genuinely believe he was innocent, but I've been disgusted by the amount of people I've heard saying ''Regardless of what he may or may not have done, I still loved him as a performer...'' etc. That sort of attitude is exactly why so many children get abused- people are prepared to turn a blind eye to it if it's someone powerful who people respect. I feel incredibly uncomfortable when I see tributes to him/ hear his music in adverts/ see celebrities talking about how much they admire him.

    I wonder how many of those people would feel 100% comfortable letting their own child sleep in the same bed as him if he was still alive.
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    Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 40,030
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    #8
    RuinedGirl wrote: »
    Abuse is an incredibly traumatic thing to occur, especially when it happens in childhood. It can take people years or even decades to come to terms with abuse and accept it within themselves, let alone be able to tell other people what happened to them. Not just because of the shame that goes along with it (a lot of victims of abuse, especially children, are emotionally manipulated by their abuser and made to believe that it is their fault) but also because people doubt them and accuse them of lying. Especially with celebrities who are idolised by their fans.

    The fact that Michael paid over $20 million to Jordy Chandler's family, in my opinion speaks volumes. I know he said it was just because he didn't want to go through the trial and wanted to focus on his music/touring etc. But put yourself in Michael Jackson's position. Someone has accused you of molesting a child (pretty much one of the worst things which you can be accused of.) If you're innocent and your actions around children have always been perfectly innocent, the last thing you would do is give millions of dollars to someone who has made up disgusting vile lies about you and tried to ruin your life. You'd most likely say ''Take me to court. I'll be found innocent.'' because you would know that there isn't a single thing the prosecution could bring up which would make you look even remotely guilty. I really think Michael paid him off because he knew he was guilty and was worried that various things would be brought up by the prosecution which would make it obvious.

    It's quite disturbing to me how much he is still worshiped, and that people still buy his albums. I know there are some fans who genuinely believe he was innocent, but I've been disgusted by the amount of people I've heard saying ''Regardless of what he may or may not have done, I still loved him as a performer...'' etc. That sort of attitude is exactly why so many children get abused- people are prepared to turn a blind eye to it if it's someone powerful who people respect. I feel incredibly uncomfortable when I see tributes to him/ hear his music in adverts/ see celebrities talking about how much they admire him.

    I wonder how many of those people would feel 100% comfortable letting their own child sleep in the same bed as him if he was still alive.

    The fact that Jordy Chandler's parents accepted $20 million as justice for their son and his mother filed papers that forced the father to allow him to go on the Dangerous Tour with Jackson, after the claims had been made also speaks volumes.

    He was found not guilty in 2005. He's never been found guilty of any crime, if he ever was I would stop buying his music.
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    WhedoniteWhedonite Posts: 29,402
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    #9
    RuinedGirl wrote: »
    Abuse is an incredibly traumatic thing to occur, especially when it happens in childhood. It can take people years or even decades to come to terms with abuse and accept it within themselves, let alone be able to tell other people what happened to them. Not just because of the shame that goes along with it (a lot of victims of abuse, especially children, are emotionally manipulated by their abuser and made to believe that it is their fault) but also because people doubt them and accuse them of lying. Especially with celebrities who are idolised by their fans.

    The fact that Michael paid over $20 million to Jordy Chandler's family, in my opinion speaks volumes. I know he said it was just because he didn't want to go through the trial and wanted to focus on his music/touring etc. But put yourself in Michael Jackson's position. Someone has accused you of molesting a child (pretty much one of the worst things which you can be accused of.) If you're innocent and your actions around children have always been perfectly innocent, the last thing you would do is give millions of dollars to someone who has made up disgusting vile lies about you and tried to ruin your life. You'd most likely say ''Take me to court. I'll be found innocent.'' because you would know that there isn't a single thing the prosecution could bring up which would make you look even remotely guilty. I really think Michael paid him off because he knew he was guilty and was worried that various things would be brought up by the prosecution which would make it obvious.

    It's quite disturbing to me how much he is still worshiped, and that people still buy his albums. I know there are some fans who genuinely believe he was innocent, but I've been disgusted by the amount of people I've heard saying ''Regardless of what he may or may not have done, I still loved him as a performer...'' etc. That sort of attitude is exactly why so many children get abused- people are prepared to turn a blind eye to it if it's someone powerful who people respect. I feel incredibly uncomfortable when I see tributes to him/ hear his music in adverts/ see celebrities talking about how much they admire him.

    I wonder how many of those people would feel 100% comfortable letting their own child sleep in the same bed as him if he was still alive.


    On the flip side though, if someone had molested your child, would you settle for money? I wouldn't. I'd want his sick arse in jail.

    Any decent parent wouldn't let their child sleep in a grown man's bed. I wouldn't let my kid sleep with my neighbour, but it doesn't mean I think he's a paedophile.

    I don't know what to think with the whole MJ accusations. Part of me believes he was making up for his lost childhood and another part of me thinks it was more sinister. I wouldn't want to say either way. It's too easy to end up blaming an innocent man or accusing a victim of lying.
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    Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 40,030
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    #10
    Whedonite wrote: »
    On the flip side though, if someone had molested your child, would you settle for money? I wouldn't. I'd want his sick arse in jail.

    Any decent parent wouldn't let their child sleep in a grown man's bed. I wouldn't let my kid sleep with my neighbour, but it doesn't mean I think he's a paedophile.

    I don't know what to think with the whole MJ accusations. Part of me believes he was making up for his lost childhood and another part of me thinks it was more sinister. I wouldn't want to say either way. It's too easy to end up blaming an innocent man or accusing a victim of lying.

    Agree completely with BIB.

    If my child was abused by anybody, no amount of money would be enough to not see them in jail. It wouldn't even enter my mind to accept $20 million over a possible prison sentence.
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    Ray_SmithRay_Smith Posts: 1,372
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    #11
    The remix of Xscape on his new album is great, though!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLI6hKJ3a_0
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    johartukjohartuk Posts: 11,320
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    #12
    Hollie_Louise wrote: »
    Agree completely with BIB.

    If my child was abused by anybody, no amount of money would be enough to not see them in jail. It wouldn't even enter my mind to accept $20 million over a possible prison sentence.

    But why would an innocent person hand over $20million?
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    Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 40,030
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    #13
    johartuk wrote: »
    But why would an innocent person hand over $20million?

    But why would a parent accept it?

    Notice in 2005 when he didn't hand any money over and was found not guilty of any crime.
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    dorydaryldorydaryl Posts: 15,927
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    #14
    I agree with RuinedGirl's remarks about why people affected by abuse can take so long to come forward. The question is asked time and time again; answers are given but the message doesn't always catch on.

    Just because Jordy Chandler's parents accepted a huge payoff to keep them quiet doesn't mean that abuse didn't happen. It could mean that their greed and mercenary attitude overrode the desire to see justice for their son. Alternatively, or perhaps additionally, perhaps they didn't feel that there was any reasonable hope of conviction should it go to court BECAUSE it was MJ and they didn't want to put their son through a court ordeal. A payout was the next best option.

    It's true, though, that he was never convicted of anything so the best outcome would be to ensure that vulnerable kids are not put in positions where they can be taken advantage of by the powerful, rich and famous. Lots of Hollywood child performers were badly abused by the adults supposedly in positions of trust. No amount of money and fame can undo some of the horrible things these youngsters undergo. It's not exclusive to kids from lower income backgrounds. Child abuse crosses the spectrum.
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    Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 40,030
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    #15
    "Jackson's insurance company "negotiated and paid the settlement, over the protests of Mr. Jackson and his personal legal counsel" and was "the source of the settlement amounts"; as noted in a 2005 memorandum in People v. Jackson. It also noted "an insurance carrier has the right to settle claims covered by insurance where it decides settlement is expedient and the insured may not interfere with nor prevent such settlements", as established by a number of precedents in California."

    Strange how both his parents received $1.5m and even the lawyer received $3-5m. What abuse did they suffer?

    And again, why did his mother file legal papers that forced the father to allow Chandler to go on the Dangerous Tour with Jackson after the charges were brought against him?
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    dorydaryldorydaryl Posts: 15,927
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    #16
    Hollie_Louise wrote: »
    Agree completely with BIB.

    If my child was abused by anybody, no amount of money would be enough to not see them in jail. It wouldn't even enter my mind to accept $20 million over a possible prison sentence.

    But not everyone is as decent and protective as you are, sadly.:(
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    Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 40,030
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    #17
    I will say, I'm not saying he's innocent. I have no idea if he is innocent of molestation but he's never been found guilty of a crime (that I'm aware of)
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    dorydaryldorydaryl Posts: 15,927
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    #18
    Hollie_Louise wrote: »
    I will say, I'm not saying he's innocent. I have no idea if he is innocent of molestation but he's never been found guilty of a crime (that I'm aware of)

    True, which is why I'm trying to speak in more general terms about child abuse in showbiz circles. I guess we'll never really know the truth. I loved much of his music and was sad when the stories started to emerge. One thing is clear- he was a damaged soul who I think just wanted to remain a child himself and perhaps this initially fuelled his need to hang around with children, rather than any perverted intent. Whether or not this got more complicated when he was trying to come to terms with his own sexual identity and development and he couldn't appreciate the boundaries is a more difficult question to answer.
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    zx50zx50 Posts: 91,295
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    #19
    RuinedGirl wrote: »
    Abuse is an incredibly traumatic thing to occur, especially when it happens in childhood. It can take people years or even decades to come to terms with abuse and accept it within themselves, let alone be able to tell other people what happened to them. Not just because of the shame that goes along with it (a lot of victims of abuse, especially children, are emotionally manipulated by their abuser and made to believe that it is their fault) but also because people doubt them and accuse them of lying. Especially with celebrities who are idolised by their fans.

    The fact that Michael paid over $20 million to Jordy Chandler's family, in my opinion speaks volumes. I know he said it was just because he didn't want to go through the trial and wanted to focus on his music/touring etc. But put yourself in Michael Jackson's position. Someone has accused you of molesting a child (pretty much one of the worst things which you can be accused of.) If you're innocent and your actions around children have always been perfectly innocent, the last thing you would do is give millions of dollars to someone who has made up disgusting vile lies about you and tried to ruin your life. You'd most likely say ''Take me to court. I'll be found innocent.'' because you would know that there isn't a single thing the prosecution could bring up which would make you look even remotely guilty. I really think Michael paid him off because he knew he was guilty and was worried that various things would be brought up by the prosecution which would make it obvious.

    It's quite disturbing to me how much he is still worshiped, and that people still buy his albums. I know there are some fans who genuinely believe he was innocent, but I've been disgusted by the amount of people I've heard saying ''Regardless of what he may or may not have done, I still loved him as a performer...'' etc. That sort of attitude is exactly why so many children get abused- people are prepared to turn a blind eye to it if it's someone powerful who people respect. I feel incredibly uncomfortable when I see tributes to him/ hear his music in adverts/ see celebrities talking about how much they admire him.

    I wonder how many of those people would feel 100% comfortable letting their own child sleep in the same bed as him if he was still alive.

    I bet there's not many parents out there that would accept payment from someone who had been charged with sexually molesting their child.
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    RuinedGirlRuinedGirl Posts: 918
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    #20
    Hollie_Louise wrote: »
    The fact that Jordy Chandler's parents accepted $20 million as justice for their son and his mother filed papers that forced the father to allow him to go on the Dangerous Tour with Jackson, after the claims had been made also speaks volumes.

    He was found not guilty in 2005. He's never been found guilty of any crime, if he ever was I would stop buying his music.

    Always enjoy reading your posts, even if we have differing opinions, because you're articulate and express your opinion without resorting to trashing any posters whom you disagree with.

    I totally don't agree with Jordy's family being prepared to settle out of court for a substantial amount of money. It says either one of two things: 1) They lied, traumatised their son and tried to ruin Jackson's life just to make profit. Or 2: Their son was abused, and instead of wanting to see his abuser get sent to jail for what he did, they decided instead that money was more important. I personally believe the second option, but to be honest even if I'm wrong their behaviour is utterly disgusting either way.

    I don't have a problem with people who genuinely believe that Michael was innocent, and still continue to support him (although I disagree and believe he was guilty and only got away with it due to his fame and power, and people being unable to accept that their idol could do something so disgusting.) I have a problem with people who admit that they don't know if he was a child molester or not, but say they support him regardless of what he may have done.
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    Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 40,030
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    #21
    RuinedGirl wrote: »
    Always enjoy reading your posts, even if we have differing opinions, because you're articulate and express your opinion without resorting to trashing any posters whom you disagree with.

    I totally don't agree with Jordy's family being prepared to settle out of court for a substantial amount of money. It says either one of two things: 1) They lied, traumatised their son and tried to ruin Jackson's life just to make profit. Or 2: Their son was abused, and instead of wanting to see his abuser get sent to jail for what he did, they decided instead that money was more important. I personally believe the second option, but to be honest even if I'm wrong their behaviour is utterly disgusting either way.

    I don't have a problem with people who genuinely believe that Michael was innocent, and still continue to support him (although I disagree and believe he was guilty and only got away with it due to his fame and power, and people being unable to accept that their idol could do something so disgusting.) I have a problem with people who admit that they don't know if he was a child molester or not, but say they support him regardless of what he may have done.

    Thank you for your kind words :)

    As I said before, I don't necessarily believe Jackson was innocent but I don't automatically presume he was guilty either. There are a lot of inconsistencies in the Chandler version of events and the fact they valued money, including $3-5m for their lawyer, over the imprisonment of the man who sexually abused their child will always count against them for me.

    It has been said in more than one place that the negotiation was done against the wishes of Jackson by his insurance company, and the contract stated that the insured person (in this case Jackson) could not interrupt or stop these negotiations. His mother, after finding out Jackson allegedly abused her son, legally forced her (possibly ex) husband to hand over their son to his abuser to go on an international tour.

    In 1992, Evan Chandler was recorded on a telephone call saying the following:

    "There was no reason why he (Jackson) had to stop calling me ... I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find [Evan Chandler's lawyer, Barry Rothman], all he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can and humiliate as many people as he can. He's nasty, he's mean, he's smart and he's hungry for publicity. Everything's going to a certain plan that isn't just mine. Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. I've given him full authority to do that. Jackson is an evil guy, he is worse than that and I have the evidence to prove it. If I go through with this, I win big-time. There's no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever ... Michael's career will be over."

    When asked how it would affect his son, Chandler replied:

    "That's irrelevant to me ... It will be a massacre if I don't get what I want. It's going to be bigger than all us put together ... This man [Jackson] is going to be humiliated beyond belief ... He will not sell one more record."

    That again counts against the family. He didn't care how anything affected his son.
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    Ella71110Ella71110 Posts: 4,239
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    #22
    dorydaryl wrote: »
    True, which is why I'm trying to speak in more general terms about child abuse in showbiz circles. I guess we'll never really know the truth. I loved much of his music and was sad when the stories started to emerge. One thing is clear- he was a damaged soul who I think just wanted to remain a child himself and perhaps this initially fuelled his need to hang around with children, rather than any perverted intent. Whether or not this got more complicated when he was trying to come to terms with his own sexual identity and development and he couldn't appreciate the boundaries is a more difficult question to answer.

    This is exactly how I feel -like you I honestly don't know what to think either about whether or not he had sex with the boys who have tried to sue him,
    I've read various books and I also thought Jordy Chandler made it up and the parents were desperate for the money and I can imagine that because MJ did sleep in the same bed with the boys (which is wrong I know but then I've got to think did MJ think it was wrong and I don't know!!) MJ didn't want that coming out and so found it less stressful to pay them off,
    I'm trying to imagine what I thought of what went on and what I think about the new claim -I don't know,I'd like to think MJ is innocent but there obviously is something there that keeps me thinking otherwise and I don't know if it's cos MJ is innocent and just was completely mis understood or he's guilty -like you say we will never know, :(
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    RuinedGirlRuinedGirl Posts: 918
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    #23
    Hollie_Louise wrote: »
    Thank you for your kind words :)

    As I said before, I don't necessarily believe Jackson was innocent but I don't automatically presume he was guilty either. There are a lot of inconsistencies in the Chandler version of events and the fact they valued money, including $3-5m for their lawyer, over the imprisonment of the man who sexually abused their child will always count against them for me.

    It has been said in more than one place that the negotiation was done against the wishes of Jackson by his insurance company, and the contract stated that the insured person (in this case Jackson) could not interrupt or stop these negotiations. His mother, after finding out Jackson allegedly abused her son, legally forced her (possibly ex) husband to hand over their son to his abuser to go on an international tour.

    In 1992, Evan Chandler was recorded on a telephone call saying the following:

    "There was no reason why he (Jackson) had to stop calling me ... I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find [Evan Chandler's lawyer, Barry Rothman], all he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can and humiliate as many people as he can. He's nasty, he's mean, he's smart and he's hungry for publicity. Everything's going to a certain plan that isn't just mine. Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. I've given him full authority to do that. Jackson is an evil guy, he is worse than that and I have the evidence to prove it. If I go through with this, I win big-time. There's no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever ... Michael's career will be over."

    When asked how it would affect his son, Chandler replied:

    "That's irrelevant to me ... It will be a massacre if I don't get what I want. It's going to be bigger than all us put together ... This man [Jackson] is going to be humiliated beyond belief ... He will not sell one more record."

    That again counts against the family. He didn't care how anything affected his son.

    I completely agree that the actions of Jordy's father were completely shady and showed a complete disregard for the emotional wellbeing of his son (regardless of whether he was telling the truth or not.) He clearly didn't give a damn about his son. But I don't think his actions can be used as concrete proof that Jordy wasn't abused. Unfortunately, some parents don't give a damn about their children, so it's not completely unbelievable that Jordy's father (despite knowing his child was sexually abused) merely saw dollar signs rather than wanting the perpetrator to be punished. I understand that Jordy's father killed himself some years ago, and that Jordy left the country so he wouldn't have to give evidence in the other trial? So I guess we'll never really know what truly happened.
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    jzeejzee Posts: 25,498
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    #24
    I've mentioned James or Jimmy Safechuck on ds previously

    "The parents of another boy, Jimmy Safechuck (here {in many photos on flickr} with Jackson in 1988) were also reportedly paid $1million and given gifts of a Rolls Royce and two Mercedes.""

    In addition,

    "I have pointed out quite a few times on here that a pastor, Jason Francia, stated he was in fact abused by Jackson & felt he now had to tell the truth given his profession. He states he initially denied in court having been abused by Jackson for fears of being labelled gay, but later conceded Jackson had "touched his genitals for a number of minutes in Jackson's 'safe room'"

    http://news.scotsman.com/michaeljackson/Pastor-lied-to-police-when.2616240.jp

    Francia (or his parents) were also paid $2 million in 1994."
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    Ella71110Ella71110 Posts: 4,239
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    #25
    RuinedGirl wrote: »
    I completely agree that the actions of Jordy's father were completely shady and showed a complete disregard for the emotional wellbeing of his son (regardless of whether he was telling the truth or not.) He clearly didn't give a damn about his son. But I don't think his actions can be used as concrete proof that Jordy wasn't abused. Unfortunately, some parents don't give a damn about their children, so it's not completely unbelievable that Jordy's father (despite knowing his child was sexually abused) merely saw dollar signs rather than wanting the perpetrator to be punished. I understand that Jordy's father killed himself some years ago, and that Jordy left the country so he wouldn't have to give evidence in the other trial? So I guess we'll never really know what truly happened.


    Really?? Why? Guilt?
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    MandyXZMandyXZ Posts: 87,020
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    #26
    jzee wrote: »
    I've mentioned James or Jimmy Safechuck on ds previously

    "The parents of another boy, Jimmy Safechuck (here {in many photos on flickr} with Jackson in 1988) were also reportedly paid $1million and given gifts of a Rolls Royce and two Mercedes.""

    In addition,

    "I have pointed out quite a few times on here that a pastor, Jason Francia, stated he was in fact abused by Jackson & felt he now had to tell the truth given his profession. He states he initially denied in court having been abused by Jackson for fears of being labelled gay, but later conceded Jackson had "touched his genitals for a number of minutes in Jackson's 'safe room'"

    http://news.scotsman.com/michaeljackson/Pastor-lied-to-police-when.2616240.jp

    Francia (or his parents) were also paid $2 million in 1994."

    You may like to read this re: Jason Francia..........


    http://michaeljacksonallegations.com/jason-francia/
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