I think people are taking my Bob Dylan comment slightly not how I meant it. I only meant that throughout music history there will be someone you consider great that might be overshadowed by another singer. Yes Bob is amazingly great - but I am not comparing Sam to Bob Dylan. What I am comparing is taste. I LOVE Bob Dylan. I like Sam a bit. But there may be people of todays generation who will listen to Sam and think he is a better singer than Bob Dylan. That is my point.
Music taste is different for everyone. There is no disputing the type of artist Bob is compared to Sam. Sam is nothing compared to Bob in truth, but if you play Sams music to this (stereotypical) generation who like One Direction, Beiber, Miley etc to those like me who grew up listening to Bob Dylan, Journey, Billy Joel as their idols my best bet is they'll choose to play Sam over music which is no longer... relevant in terms of mainstream popularity. I like Sam. TBH I prefer Luke or Rough Copy but I wouldn't complain if Sam was in the final either. I don't think he'd win, but I wouldn't say he didn't deserve it or anything if he did.
Your own music taste changes as well don't forget. I mean I used to listen to Spice Girls and Steps before Panic at the Disco and Greenday. Now I listen to anything from Billy Joel to Pink. Just because I like Sam now doesn't mean I consider him to ever be in the same league as Bob Dylan. I just think he has potential to be better than expected. That's all.
Can we stop with the whole Bob Dylan/Sam C thing now. It's really not what I meant... >_< XD
- Sorry for the long comments. I ramble on a lot when I am tired but can't sleep.. this is the shortened version... it was a lot longer -
In truth artists such as Bob Dylan are on a different planet to anything that comes off these shows, they are real artists who write their own material not some karaoke puppet on autotune singing someone else's song.Their legacy lives on for generations not some nonsense singing cover songs just to get into a nowadays meaningless pop chart. There is not a single act off x factor that is highly respected in music & never will be.
Bob Dylan was a genius lyricist and great songwriter, with a killer ability to deliver and emote. His voice was the stuff of nightmares , though. He was a perfect example of being so great in other ways that it wouldn't matter, and there are some artists popular recently who are similarly vocally handicapped.:eek::p
None of this years contestants come close to Dylan , but,then, how many do?Most of us who write and perform can only dream of being so brilliant in the songwriting department.
I like his voice it has character and gets the job done
Any of his songs sounds better sung by somebody else - from Hendrix to Marley
So many have done better versions of Dylan's songs but i doubt if he cares as he gets the biggest pay out due to being the songwriter, at the end of the day the greater skill is in the writing of the song.
So many have done better versions of Dylan's songs but i doubt if he cares as he gets the biggest pay out due to being the songwriter, at the end of the day the greater skill is in the writing of the song.
Probably in Dylan's case, but there is a skill to interpreting and delivery as well, and arranging.
A great singer can make an okay song sound good to great. A good producer/arranger can bring a dull song to life.
Chester can sing yes. But I meant Linkin Park tend to stick to a similar vocal range or music style, like many artists do when they have found the style and audience they want. Mike Shinoda is a good example by what I mean. His rapping - he has the same style of rap in Linkin Park as he does in Fort Minor and X-Ecutioners It's Going Down. It's not a bad thing, I just think it makes all his songs sound the same and less memorable. For example I can't tell which ones are for Transformers compared to the ones for Twilight. They are too similar for me. I also personally prefer Chester in Dead by Sunrise to Linkin Park. I just think they have the better songs.
Chester can sing yes. I didn't say they were limited vocally I said they tend to stick to one style and keep to it, like many artists do when they have found the style and audience they want. Linkin Park have produced many songs which sound very much the same over the last few years (I.e the ones they sang for Transformers and Twilight saga). I personally prefer Chester in Dead by Sunrise. As for Linkin Park though I tend to prefer Mike Shinoda's parts in terms of vocals.
I wasn't really having a go at you , I had just skimmed the thread this morning and saw limited vocal range , so maybe misinterpreted what you meant
we'll have to agree to disagree on the bit between mike and chester, I think chester has a very under-rated voice but I do agree they have got a bit samey the last few years
thought releasing three different versions of their last album was a bit OTT
think we did agree on the main point I made earlier in this thread tho that strength and quality of voice is very much relative to the type of music being done. this doesn't mean that you don't need to be able to control your voice and sing in tune as a bare minimum however.
Also while you are all talking about Bob and songs/singing etc to me I'll always like Bob Dylans songs more than anyone who has covered him. The only exception to that is 'Make You Feel My Love' and my favourite version is Garth Brooks with Billy Joel slightly behind. That's the only song of Bob's I can not stand Bob singing.
Same as Billy Joel I can only listen to Billy Joel sing his songs - I can't hear anyone else singing his songs. Especially Vienna and Piano Man and don't get me started on friggin' Westlife and Uptown Girl.
I used to be one of these people who only liked the original versions of songs and said they were the best... then I started listening to ska covers of songs and I started changing my mind and now as long as the song is sung well and good without ruining or copying the original I don't mind. Also as long as they give credit to the original artist. One of the biggest peeves for me Simon constantly did was credit Adele for 'Make You Feel My Love' and 'Hiding My Heart' was sung and not the original writers/singers. He did the same with Westlife with 'You Raise Me Up' (Groban) was sung. (As you can tell I don't like Westlife).
This seems to have gone from the OP point to a conversation about Dylan.... but anyway yeah. My original point from my first post (which was more about Robbie and Gary's opinion on Sam or anything) is that just because you have a bad singer doesn't necessarily they can't be successful in the music industry in some other way.
I wasn't really having a go at you , I had just skimmed the thread this morning and saw limited vocal range , so maybe misinterpreted what you meant
we'll have to agree to disagree on the bit between mike and chester, I think chester has a very under-rated voice but I do agree they have got a bit samey the last few years
thought releasing three different versions of their last album was a bit OTT
think we did agree on the main point I made earlier in this thread tho that strength and quality of voice is very much relative to the type of music being done. this doesn't mean that you don't need to be able to control your voice and sing in tune as a bare minimum however.
Nah I know you weren't having a go.. it's just sometimes I don't explain myself well and I do tend to ramble off on some tangent so I felt I needed to re-explain everything.. which as you might have noticed since I went back and edited the comment you replied to with a more detailed and thought out one. haha. oops sorry.
I only really liked Linkin Park when they first came out to be honest... I was more of a Panic at the Disco, BFMV and Greenday fangirl growing up so Linkin weren't really in my playlist a lot.
And I agree with your last paragraph - I sometimes like when singers have a slight tweek to their voice though that makes their singing a little... imperfect. I can't remember who it was who auditioned (I think it was the football coach this year) - the little 'quirk' to his voice I loved. I wish he had gone through to be honest and Paul Akister. I like Sam... he's not the best I agree but I still like him regardless.
So many have done better versions of Dylan's songs but i doubt if he cares as he gets the biggest pay out due to being the songwriter, at the end of the day the greater skill is in the writing of the song.
I don't want to believe that Mr Zimmerman is motivated by anything other than an unstoppable desire to create great art and whether he garners fame or wealth on the way is not of interest to him. I want to believe that of all great artists. His going electric definitely alienated fans, as did his conversion to Christianity and subsequent release of overtly Christian music, but he did these things because he wanted to regardless of whether it made him money.
I don't understand the common opinion that people with 'better' voices like Sam B and Nicholas are treated as if they are more talented than others because of they're vocal ability.
I'm aware that Luke, Abi and Sam C are songwriters and play instruments (not sure about the other contestants) should't we be encouraging people with this talent to be on the X Factor rather than someone who can just sing well.
Let me give you an example. Lucy Spraggan didn't have the best voice but her talented songwriting etc is what has made her quite successful.
Surely someone putting their heart and soul into a song means more than someone who just sings a song really well without any emotion *cough* Tamera *cough*
I agree to a certain extent BUT a minimum standard of vocal ability has to be non-negotiable. Sam c, luke and abi do not have good enough voices to get to the first level.
i partly agree with you OP, but when we download the tunes from itunes or buy the cd..we're not listening to charisma or likeablity we're listening to a voice.
imho Sam C should have been booted a long time ago, his voice isn't good enough
Lets put this into basic terms, when you put the radio, your ipod or a cd on, all you hear is the voice!. If a singer has a rubbish voice the song isn't going to sound very good!
Thats what annoys me about The X Factor, the voters dont just vote for the voice, they vote for how fit some one looks or how some one makes them go aww all the time.
I am sure someone with good looks will win again, like they do most years, (Leon Jackson, Joe Mcelderry,Shayne Ward, Matt Cardle, do i need to go on?)
Lets put this into basic terms, when you put the radio, your ipod or a cd on, all you hear is the voice!. If a singer has a rubbish voice the song isn't going to sound very good!
Thats what annoys me about The X Factor, the voters dont just vote for the voice, they vote for how fit some one looks or how some one makes them go aww all the time.
I am sure someone with good looks will win again, like they do most years, (Leon Jackson, Joe Mcelderry,Shayne Ward, Matt Cardle, do i need to go on?)
Using a studio recording to demonstrate the importance of the voice in getting a record deal is like using a magazine photo to demonstrate the importance of clear skin in getting magazine covers.
I never watched series 2, but Shayne was by a mile the right winner.
Lets put this into basic terms, when you put the radio, your ipod or a cd on, all you hear is the voice!. If a singer has a rubbish voice the song isn't going to sound very good!
Thats what annoys me about The X Factor, the voters dont just vote for the voice, they vote for how fit some one looks or how some one makes them go aww all the time.
I am sure someone with good looks will win again, like they do most years, (Leon Jackson, Joe Mcelderry,Shayne Ward, Matt Cardle, do i need to go on?)
With Matt cardle and James Arthur amongst recent winners, I don't think we can convincingly argue that people are just voting for good looking contestants!!
I don't want to believe that Mr Zimmerman is motivated by anything other than an unstoppable desire to create great art and whether he garners fame or wealth on the way is not of interest to him. I want to believe that of all great artists. His going electric definitely alienated fans, as did his conversion to Christianity and subsequent release of overtly Christian music, but he did these things because he wanted to regardless of whether it made him money.
Best comment by a mile, music is a art form & a way of expressing yourself in song, all this talk of who has the best voice is complete bollocks if it's just vocal gymnastics. All the greats from John Lee Hooker through to Dylan & Springsteen have passion in their music & it's done with feel not some emotionless karaoke puppet standing there singing someone else's words & with no feel. Listen to the original blues artists & it's the feel of the voice & playing yet they would'nt get through the auditions on x factor even though they're on a different planet compared to all the jokers involved in this trashy tv programme.
Lets put this into basic terms, when you put the radio, your ipod or a cd on, all you hear is the voice!. If a singer has a rubbish voice the song isn't going to sound very good!
Thats what annoys me about The X Factor, the voters dont just vote for the voice, they vote for how fit some one looks or how some one makes them go aww all the time.
I am sure someone with good looks will win again, like they do most years, (Leon Jackson, Joe Mcelderry,Shayne Ward, Matt Cardle, do i need to go on?)
As much as I agree it's not always all about the voice (some really good examples in this thread - love Bob Dylan, can't stand covers of his songs for the most part but admittedly he's not the sweetest singer!) I don't think it applies on the X factor. We aren't watching artists come out and pour their heart out on stage with original songs, we are basically watching glorified karaoke. Like with Abi - she has a very sweet tone to her voice but it did not suit the programme at all. You can't pit people like her and Sam C against vocal giants like Sam Bailey and have it not look bad really. I like Luke but I can't see him going much further either.
I partly agree with you OP If your not the greatest singer yes you can still make it but you have to make up for it somewhere else IE Charisma etc & none of those mentioned have anything to make up for there lack of singing. The ability to play an instrument/write a song doesnt make up for the fact not a great singer
An example Robbie Williams not greatest singer in the world but he makes up for that with bags and bags of Charisma same with michael jackson
No, it shouldn't be all about the voice...not on a show called the X Factor anyway!
The trouble is so few of them ever have the X Factor, and perversely even those that do soon have it diluted by the badly stylised X Factor machine.
Many come to auditions looking cool and with a raw talent, but XF soon knocks that out of them. They big up their hair, slap way too much make up on them and dress them in a style that takes no account of the contestants true style or personality. Many of the younger contestants end up looking old and frumpy, and this leaves most feeling and looking uncomfortably self-conscious. The show doesn't encourage the X Factor, it suppresses it. They take 'cool' and turn it in to 'cheese', it's the Peter Andre school of music.
In Tamera we actually have someone that has it all, she has massive potential but the cheese machine is doing it's level best to suppress the very thing it claims it is looking for - the X Factor. The rest (with the exception of Rough Copy) are nothing special, nor will they ever be imo. Yes,some of them can sing, but it's not enough if their presence on the stage fills you with apathy.
No, it shouldn't be all about the voice...not on a show called the X Factor anyway!
The trouble is so few of them ever have the X Factor, and perversely even those that do soon have it diluted by the badly stylised X Factor machine.
Many come to auditions looking cool and with a raw talent, but XF soon knocks that out of them. They big up their hair, slap way too much make up on them and dress them in a style that takes no account of the contestants true style or personality. Many of the younger contestants end up looking old and frumpy, and this leaves most feeling and looking uncomfortably self-conscious. The show doesn't encourage the X Factor, it suppresses it. They take 'cool' and turn it in to 'cheese', it's the Peter Andre school of music.
In Tamera we actually have someone that has it all, she has massive potential but the cheese machine is doing it's level best to suppress the very thing it claims it is looking for - the X Factor. The rest (with the exception of Rough Copy) are nothing special, nor will they ever be imo. Yes,some of them can sing, but it's not enough if their presence on the stage fills you with apathy.
Absolutely! If the show really was searching for the "X Factor" they'd let the contestants choose their own songs, styling and staging and then that factor would come out. Most, the vast majority, would flounder and look drab, but, every few series, we'd find a real star. OR we could just listen to real music and increase our chances.
Personally, I'm here for the Karaoke. Nobody with real artistry will ever go near the show - it would be like a saint entering a bordello. No Bob Dylans or Karen Carpenters or Freddy Mercurys will ever be found on XF. No Leonard Cohens or Tim/Jeff Buckleys. We might get a Witney though.
Comments
Music taste is different for everyone. There is no disputing the type of artist Bob is compared to Sam. Sam is nothing compared to Bob in truth, but if you play Sams music to this (stereotypical) generation who like One Direction, Beiber, Miley etc to those like me who grew up listening to Bob Dylan, Journey, Billy Joel as their idols my best bet is they'll choose to play Sam over music which is no longer... relevant in terms of mainstream popularity. I like Sam. TBH I prefer Luke or Rough Copy but I wouldn't complain if Sam was in the final either. I don't think he'd win, but I wouldn't say he didn't deserve it or anything if he did.
Your own music taste changes as well don't forget. I mean I used to listen to Spice Girls and Steps before Panic at the Disco and Greenday. Now I listen to anything from Billy Joel to Pink.
Can we stop with the whole Bob Dylan/Sam C thing now. It's really not what I meant... >_< XD
- Sorry for the long comments. I ramble on a lot when I am tired but can't sleep.. this is the shortened version... it was a lot longer -
I like his voice
I don't, yet I agree with you. That is a true artist .
If you(and anyone else here) love such artistry, you should check this guy(Sixto Rodriguez) and this film out. It and he are amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhp3gLCsMFk
You're welcome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shH-ulBYlF0
chester can sing
Any of his songs sounds better sung by somebody else - from Hendrix to Marley
So many have done better versions of Dylan's songs but i doubt if he cares as he gets the biggest pay out due to being the songwriter, at the end of the day the greater skill is in the writing of the song.
Probably in Dylan's case, but there is a skill to interpreting and delivery as well, and arranging.
A great singer can make an okay song sound good to great. A good producer/arranger can bring a dull song to life.
That is true & Dylan along with Tom Waits have had some brilliant versions of their songs done by some superb artists.
Chester can sing yes. But I meant Linkin Park tend to stick to a similar vocal range or music style, like many artists do when they have found the style and audience they want. Mike Shinoda is a good example by what I mean. His rapping - he has the same style of rap in Linkin Park as he does in Fort Minor and X-Ecutioners It's Going Down. It's not a bad thing, I just think it makes all his songs sound the same and less memorable. For example I can't tell which ones are for Transformers compared to the ones for Twilight. They are too similar for me. I also personally prefer Chester in Dead by Sunrise to Linkin Park. I just think they have the better songs.
I wasn't really having a go at you , I had just skimmed the thread this morning and saw limited vocal range , so maybe misinterpreted what you meant
we'll have to agree to disagree on the bit between mike and chester, I think chester has a very under-rated voice but I do agree they have got a bit samey the last few years
thought releasing three different versions of their last album was a bit OTT
think we did agree on the main point I made earlier in this thread tho that strength and quality of voice is very much relative to the type of music being done. this doesn't mean that you don't need to be able to control your voice and sing in tune as a bare minimum however.
Same as Billy Joel I can only listen to Billy Joel sing his songs - I can't hear anyone else singing his songs. Especially Vienna and Piano Man and don't get me started on friggin' Westlife and Uptown Girl.
I used to be one of these people who only liked the original versions of songs and said they were the best... then I started listening to ska covers of songs and I started changing my mind and now as long as the song is sung well and good without ruining or copying the original I don't mind. Also as long as they give credit to the original artist. One of the biggest peeves for me Simon constantly did was credit Adele for 'Make You Feel My Love' and 'Hiding My Heart' was sung and not the original writers/singers. He did the same with Westlife with 'You Raise Me Up' (Groban) was sung. (As you can tell I don't like Westlife).
This seems to have gone from the OP point to a conversation about Dylan.... but anyway yeah. My original point from my first post (which was more about Robbie and Gary's opinion on Sam or anything) is that just because you have a bad singer doesn't necessarily they can't be successful in the music industry in some other way.
Nah I know you weren't having a go.. it's just sometimes I don't explain myself well and I do tend to ramble off on some tangent so I felt I needed to re-explain everything.. which as you might have noticed since I went back and edited the comment you replied to with a more detailed and thought out one. haha.
I only really liked Linkin Park when they first came out to be honest... I was more of a Panic at the Disco, BFMV and Greenday fangirl growing up so Linkin weren't really in my playlist a lot.
And I agree with your last paragraph - I sometimes like when singers have a slight tweek to their voice though that makes their singing a little... imperfect. I can't remember who it was who auditioned (I think it was the football coach this year) - the little 'quirk' to his voice I loved. I wish he had gone through to be honest and Paul Akister. I like Sam... he's not the best I agree but I still like him regardless.
I don't want to believe that Mr Zimmerman is motivated by anything other than an unstoppable desire to create great art and whether he garners fame or wealth on the way is not of interest to him. I want to believe that of all great artists. His going electric definitely alienated fans, as did his conversion to Christianity and subsequent release of overtly Christian music, but he did these things because he wanted to regardless of whether it made him money.
I agree to a certain extent BUT a minimum standard of vocal ability has to be non-negotiable. Sam c, luke and abi do not have good enough voices to get to the first level.
imho Sam C should have been booted a long time ago, his voice isn't good enough
Thats what annoys me about The X Factor, the voters dont just vote for the voice, they vote for how fit some one looks or how some one makes them go aww all the time.
I am sure someone with good looks will win again, like they do most years, (Leon Jackson, Joe Mcelderry,Shayne Ward, Matt Cardle, do i need to go on?)
Using a studio recording to demonstrate the importance of the voice in getting a record deal is like using a magazine photo to demonstrate the importance of clear skin in getting magazine covers.
I never watched series 2, but Shayne was by a mile the right winner.
With Matt cardle and James Arthur amongst recent winners, I don't think we can convincingly argue that people are just voting for good looking contestants!!
Best comment by a mile, music is a art form & a way of expressing yourself in song, all this talk of who has the best voice is complete bollocks if it's just vocal gymnastics. All the greats from John Lee Hooker through to Dylan & Springsteen have passion in their music & it's done with feel not some emotionless karaoke puppet standing there singing someone else's words & with no feel. Listen to the original blues artists & it's the feel of the voice & playing yet they would'nt get through the auditions on x factor even though they're on a different planet compared to all the jokers involved in this trashy tv programme.
Video killed the radio star
An example Robbie Williams not greatest singer in the world but he makes up for that with bags and bags of Charisma same with michael jackson
The trouble is so few of them ever have the X Factor, and perversely even those that do soon have it diluted by the badly stylised X Factor machine.
Many come to auditions looking cool and with a raw talent, but XF soon knocks that out of them. They big up their hair, slap way too much make up on them and dress them in a style that takes no account of the contestants true style or personality. Many of the younger contestants end up looking old and frumpy, and this leaves most feeling and looking uncomfortably self-conscious. The show doesn't encourage the X Factor, it suppresses it. They take 'cool' and turn it in to 'cheese', it's the Peter Andre school of music.
In Tamera we actually have someone that has it all, she has massive potential but the cheese machine is doing it's level best to suppress the very thing it claims it is looking for - the X Factor. The rest (with the exception of Rough Copy) are nothing special, nor will they ever be imo. Yes,some of them can sing, but it's not enough if their presence on the stage fills you with apathy.
Absolutely! If the show really was searching for the "X Factor" they'd let the contestants choose their own songs, styling and staging and then that factor would come out. Most, the vast majority, would flounder and look drab, but, every few series, we'd find a real star. OR we could just listen to real music and increase our chances.
Personally, I'm here for the Karaoke. Nobody with real artistry will ever go near the show - it would be like a saint entering a bordello. No Bob Dylans or Karen Carpenters or Freddy Mercurys will ever be found on XF. No Leonard Cohens or Tim/Jeff Buckleys. We might get a Witney though.