But isn't an HD ready tv 1080i so would make the best of sky hd anyway. A full hd tv is 1080p which sky don't broadcast in
I think you are getting confused?
1080i and 1080p are broadcast transmission standards, they are not functions of the TVs themselves.
Full HD TVs, which confusingly are now being labelled "HD Ready 1080p" have 1920x1080 pixels on screen.
HD Ready TVs, with no 1080p in their label, have less than that number of pixels (usually 1366x768).
An HD Ready TV must be able to accept a 1080i broadcast, but it will downscale the 1080 lines to 768 to display it, thereby losing some of the detail.
A Full HD set will display the 1080 lines as is.
Most HD Ready sets can now also accept 1080p broadcasts, but they don't have to, according to the standard.
TBH unless you are going for a plasma I would definitely go for a Full HD set, supposing you are going for 32" or bigger.
I think 32" is about the size when you can start to tell the difference.
Plus 1920x1080 is a much better resolution if you intend to connect computers or games consoles to your TV at some point.
But isn't an HD ready tv 1080i so would make the best of sky hd anyway. A full hd tv is 1080p which sky don't broadcast in
No. An HD Ready TV is capable of showing a 1080i picture, but only after it has converted it back to 720p.
Only a Full HD 1080p TV is capable of showing 1080i as intended. 1080i and 1080p have the same amount of detail (pixels) they are just delivered in a slightly different way.
(before anyone jumps on me, I am using a very simplified example so I can get the basic points across)
No. An HD Ready TV is capable of showing a 1080i picture, but only after it has converted it back to 720p.
Only a Full HD 1080p TV is capable of showing 1080i as intended. 1080i and 1080p have the same amount of detail (pixels) they are just delivered in a slightly different way.
(before anyone jumps on me, I am using a very simplified example so I can get the basic points across)
Your simplified example is complete rubbish.
How many TV's have 1440 x 1080 pixels ?
720P is 1280 x 720 and normally is at 50fps. If broadcasters chose to transmit true 720p50 then for much content the picture quality would be hard to tell the difference and for some actually better than 1080i50 at 1920 x 1080.
Displaying 1080I on a HD-Ready TV simply means rescaling either 1440 x 1080 or 1920 x 1080 to match the screen. Normally 768 lines, true 1280 x 720 displays are restricted to very old Plasma displays.
Digital TV does not transmit every frame it relies on a lossy compression system that transmits one complete full frame and rebuilds some subsequent frames by recording only difference information. The info is contained in a data structure knowm as a GOP (Group Of Pictures).
In the end what matters is what the picture looks like. Given a line of quality TV's I reckon in a blind test nobody will be able to tell which have 1080 lines and which have 768 lines.
Include a few crap 1920 x 1080 ones to really confuse
720P is 1280 x 720 and normally is at 50fps. If broadcasters chose to transmit true 720p50 then for much content the picture quality would be hard to tell the difference and for some actually better than 1080i50 at 1920 x 1080.
Displaying 1080I on a HD-Ready TV simply means rescaling either 1440 x 1080 or 1920 x 1080 to match the screen. Normally 768 lines, true 1280 x 720 displays are restricted to very old Plasma displays.
Digital TV does not transmit every frame it relies on a lossy compression system that transmits one complete full frame and rebuilds some subsequent frames by recording only difference information. The info is contained in a data structure knowm as a GOP (Group Of Pictures).
In the end what matters is what the picture looks like. Given a line of quality TV's I reckon in a blind test nobody will be able to tell which have 1080 lines and which have 768 lines.
Include a few crap 1920 x 1080 ones to really confuse
No. An HD Ready TV is capable of showing a 1080i picture, but only after it has converted it back to 720p.
Almost entirely wrong - an HD Ready set converts (downscales) the incoming 1080 signal to match the screen resolution, NOT down to 720 (and nothing to do with P or i). There have been almost no sets made with 720 resolutions, so while a tiny number of sets will convert to 720, it's not many at all.
Almost entirely wrong - an HD Ready set converts (downscales) the incoming 1080 signal to match the screen resolution, NOT down to 720 (and nothing to do with P or i). There have been almost no sets made with 720 resolutions, so while a tiny number of sets will convert to 720, it's not many at all.
For goodness sake Nigel, give me some credit, don't you think I know that? I'm trying to answer the OPs question in terminology they would understand. My post made it quite clear I was purposely over simplifying things.
For goodness sake Nigel, give me some credit, don't you think I know that? I'm trying to answer the OPs question in terminology they would understand. My post made it quite clear I was purposely over simplifying things.
......making it sound as if a HD Ready tv cant show a Full HD picture in anyway shape or form, which is not the case.
They can't, unless it's HD Ready 1080p. A HD Ready TV will input at 1080i and sometimes 1080p and then downscale the image and output at the screens native resolution. At no point on a HD Ready TV will you see an output of 1080i/p there is not enough pixels to display them two resolutions.
They can't, unless it's HD Ready 1080p. A HD Ready TV will input at 1080i and sometimes 1080p and then downscale the image and output at the screens native resolution. At no point on a HD Ready TV will you see an output of 1080i/p there is not enough pixels to display them two resolutions.
But you will see the entire HD picture, which may well be better than on a Full HD set.
All this "can't display Full HD" crap is giving the misleading impression that they can't display the signals.
But you will see the entire HD picture, which may well be better than on a Full HD set.
All this "can't display Full HD" crap is giving the misleading impression that they can't display the signals.
You will see the entire screen resolution of what ever the screen resolution is be it 768 or 720. You will not see the entire 1080i/1080p resolution as a HD Ready screen simply doesn't have enough pixels to display those resolutions.
There is no crap about it and of course it gives that impression as that's exactly what a HD Ready TV can't do. You can't expect to feed a HD Ready set a Full HD signal and expect it to display it. Otherwise if it could, what would be the point in a Full HD set. Now I know that the signal you feed it, in the end has to display it, but the signal that is getting inputted is not the signal that is getting outputted, it needs to be changed for it to display. In my books and common sense, a HD Ready TV fed a Full HD signal will not display/output a Full HD signal. Just because something can input at that resolution does not mean it will display at that resolution, that's just nonsense talk.
You need an exact-scan / 1:1 pixel mapping / no overscan mode for that.
I've never seen a consumer TV that does this by default - even a full 1080p panel fed by a 1080i or 1080p source - they all overscan a little by default.
So there's no chance it will "display the 1080 lines as is" unless you tell it to - the option is usually deep in the picture settings menu. If you don't select this option, then by default, it'll still scale and crop the 1080i/1080p input.
You will see the entire screen resolution of what ever the screen resolution is be it 768 or 720. You will not see the entire 1080i/1080p resolution as a HD Ready screen simply doesn't have enough pixels to display those resolutions.
There is no crap about it and of course it gives that impression as that's exactly what a HD Ready TV can't do. You can't expect to feed a HD Ready set a Full HD signal and expect it to display it. Otherwise if it could, what would be the point in a Full HD set. Now I know that the signal you feed it, in the end has to display it, but the signal that is getting inputted is not the signal that is getting outputted, it needs to be changed for it to display. In my books and common sense, a HD Ready TV fed a Full HD signal will not display/output a Full HD signal. Just because something can input at that resolution does not mean it will display at that resolution, that's just nonsense talk.
Nobody has suggested it will display at that resolution - but why would you want it to?.
A decent quality HD Ready TV will give a BETTER HD picture than a cheap Full HD set - why are you pointlessly obsessed with numbers?.
As others have said - most Full HD sets overscan the picture anyway, although some have the capability to set them to 1:1 mapping (but not all).
Which it can't. Yes it can input at 1080i/p. But it is not showing at 1080i/p.
Well a full HD 1080p set can't show a 1080i picture either. Unless the source is naturally progressive (eg film) then deinterlacing will cause a loss of resolution, in the worst case this can be to only 540 vertical pixels.
Well a full HD 1080p set can't show a 1080i picture either. Unless the source is naturally progressive (eg film) then deinterlacing will cause a loss of resolution, in the worst case this can be to only 540 vertical pixels.
Yes it can. The resolution of 1080i is 1920 x 1080, so the full image is shown.
There isn't a full image just two half images seperated in time by 1/50 second.
Of course there is a full image, unless you're telling me when I pause my TV that the image is only half there. Now I know how 1080i is delivered to the screen, but clearly the full image is there.
Of course there is a full image, unless you're telling me when I pause my TV that the image is only half there. Now I know how 1080i is delivered to the screen, but clearly the full image is there.
You are looking at two different images seperated in time by 1/50 second if the action is fast and you look closely you can see the slightly jaggy effect of the time difference. Different TV's handle the process in different ways. You could argue the same about 504 x 576 SD channels. You still see 1920 x 1080 pixels and you also see 1920 x 1080 when the transmission is 1440 x 1080.
You are looking at two different images seperated in time by 1/50 second if the action is fast and you look closely you can see the slightly jaggy effect of the time difference. Different TV's handle the process in different ways. You could argue the same about 504 x 576 SD channels. You still see 1920 x 1080 pixels and you also see 1920 x 1080 when the transmission is 1440 x 1080.
Like I said, I know how 1080i is delievered, that doesn't stop the fact that when you pause your TV, there is one full image, hence the resolution of 1080i being 1920 x 1080, hence that a 1080p TV can display 1080i.
Like I said, I know how 1080i is delievered, that doesn't stop the fact that when you pause your TV, there is one full image, hence the resolution of 1080i being 1920 x 1080, hence that a 1080p TV can display 1080i.
If you consider two slightly different pictures each with 540 lines as one image, I don't. In any case the point is that if it's impossible to tell the difference your argument is merely semantics which no one that understands TV's agrees with.
An HD-Ready set by definition is capable of displaying 1080i or 720P transmissions (thats from the EICTA specs, i rather think they should know about these things). There is no requirement for 1:1 pixel mapping and for years there was no 1920 x 1080 sources only 1440 x 1080.
SBS 3D is 1080i would you say that you have 1 image or two :eek: On a normal TV you see two different pictures side by side squashed 50% horizontally.
If you consider two slightly different pictures each with 540 lines as one image, I don't. In any case the point is that if it's impossible to tell the difference your argument is merely semantics which no one that understands TV's agrees with.
An HD-Ready set by definition is capable of displaying 1080i or 720P transmissions (thats from the EICTA specs, i rather think they should know about these things). There is no requirement for 1:1 pixel mapping and for years there was no 1920 x 1080 sources only 1440 x 1080.
SBS 3D is 1080i would you say that you have 1 image or two :eek: On a normal TV you see two different pictures side by side squashed 50% horizontally.
Of course I consider it one image, it's what I can see on my screen.
An HD set by definition can never display 1080i, it doesn't have enough pixels to be able to display 1080i, I'm sorry but that's a fact you can't argue with. It's not my fault EICTA can't use the correct use of English when describing something. Quite why you would think a HD Ready TV could display 720p and 1080i is beyond me, they both have a different resolution.
Of course I consider it one image, it's what I can see on my screen.
An HD set by definition can never display 1080i, it doesn't have enough pixels to be able to display 1080i, I'm sorry but that's a fact you can't argue with. It's not my fault EICTA can't use the correct use of English when describing something. Quite why you would think a HD Ready TV could display 720p and 1080i is beyond me, they both have a different resolution.
Do I take you can't watch 576i on your full-HD TV as it doesn't have 576 lines ? Can a HD-Ready display watch a 720p signal (TV's with 720 lines are as rare as hens teeth).
Comments
I think you are getting confused?
1080i and 1080p are broadcast transmission standards, they are not functions of the TVs themselves.
Full HD TVs, which confusingly are now being labelled "HD Ready 1080p" have 1920x1080 pixels on screen.
HD Ready TVs, with no 1080p in their label, have less than that number of pixels (usually 1366x768).
An HD Ready TV must be able to accept a 1080i broadcast, but it will downscale the 1080 lines to 768 to display it, thereby losing some of the detail.
A Full HD set will display the 1080 lines as is.
Most HD Ready sets can now also accept 1080p broadcasts, but they don't have to, according to the standard.
TBH unless you are going for a plasma I would definitely go for a Full HD set, supposing you are going for 32" or bigger.
I think 32" is about the size when you can start to tell the difference.
Plus 1920x1080 is a much better resolution if you intend to connect computers or games consoles to your TV at some point.
With any flat screen TV if you want any sort of bass you have to use an external sound system.
No. An HD Ready TV is capable of showing a 1080i picture, but only after it has converted it back to 720p.
Only a Full HD 1080p TV is capable of showing 1080i as intended. 1080i and 1080p have the same amount of detail (pixels) they are just delivered in a slightly different way.
(before anyone jumps on me, I am using a very simplified example so I can get the basic points across)
Your simplified example is complete rubbish.
How many TV's have 1440 x 1080 pixels ?
720P is 1280 x 720 and normally is at 50fps. If broadcasters chose to transmit true 720p50 then for much content the picture quality would be hard to tell the difference and for some actually better than 1080i50 at 1920 x 1080.
Displaying 1080I on a HD-Ready TV simply means rescaling either 1440 x 1080 or 1920 x 1080 to match the screen. Normally 768 lines, true 1280 x 720 displays are restricted to very old Plasma displays.
Digital TV does not transmit every frame it relies on a lossy compression system that transmits one complete full frame and rebuilds some subsequent frames by recording only difference information. The info is contained in a data structure knowm as a GOP (Group Of Pictures).
In the end what matters is what the picture looks like. Given a line of quality TV's I reckon in a blind test nobody will be able to tell which have 1080 lines and which have 768 lines.
Include a few crap 1920 x 1080 ones to really confuse
His example is not rubbish, it is correct.
Almost entirely wrong - an HD Ready set converts (downscales) the incoming 1080 signal to match the screen resolution, NOT down to 720 (and nothing to do with P or i). There have been almost no sets made with 720 resolutions, so while a tiny number of sets will convert to 720, it's not many at all.
For goodness sake Nigel, give me some credit, don't you think I know that? I'm trying to answer the OPs question in terminology they would understand. My post made it quite clear I was purposely over simplifying things.
You were confusing the issue, not simplifying it.
Well an HD Ready TV can only show a Full HD picture if it's got 1920x1080 pixels.
That is an "HD Ready 1080p" TV aka a Full HD TV.
They can't, unless it's HD Ready 1080p. A HD Ready TV will input at 1080i and sometimes 1080p and then downscale the image and output at the screens native resolution. At no point on a HD Ready TV will you see an output of 1080i/p there is not enough pixels to display them two resolutions.
But you will see the entire HD picture, which may well be better than on a Full HD set.
All this "can't display Full HD" crap is giving the misleading impression that they can't display the signals.
You will see the entire screen resolution of what ever the screen resolution is be it 768 or 720. You will not see the entire 1080i/1080p resolution as a HD Ready screen simply doesn't have enough pixels to display those resolutions.
There is no crap about it and of course it gives that impression as that's exactly what a HD Ready TV can't do. You can't expect to feed a HD Ready set a Full HD signal and expect it to display it. Otherwise if it could, what would be the point in a Full HD set. Now I know that the signal you feed it, in the end has to display it, but the signal that is getting inputted is not the signal that is getting outputted, it needs to be changed for it to display. In my books and common sense, a HD Ready TV fed a Full HD signal will not display/output a Full HD signal. Just because something can input at that resolution does not mean it will display at that resolution, that's just nonsense talk.
I've never seen a consumer TV that does this by default - even a full 1080p panel fed by a 1080i or 1080p source - they all overscan a little by default.
So there's no chance it will "display the 1080 lines as is" unless you tell it to - the option is usually deep in the picture settings menu. If you don't select this option, then by default, it'll still scale and crop the 1080i/1080p input.
Cheers,
David.
Nobody has suggested it will display at that resolution - but why would you want it to?.
A decent quality HD Ready TV will give a BETTER HD picture than a cheap Full HD set - why are you pointlessly obsessed with numbers?.
As others have said - most Full HD sets overscan the picture anyway, although some have the capability to set them to 1:1 mapping (but not all).
I never said I would want it to, I'm simply avoiding confusion.
I never said it wouldn't, I'm not, I'm just stating facts.
What your last point has to do with anything about what I said, I don't really know
I was replying to someone that wrongly wrote -
"......making it sound as if a HD Ready tv cant show a Full HD picture in anyway shape or form, which is not the case. "
Which it can't. Yes it can input at 1080i/p. But it is not showing at 1080i/p.
Well a full HD 1080p set can't show a 1080i picture either. Unless the source is naturally progressive (eg film) then deinterlacing will cause a loss of resolution, in the worst case this can be to only 540 vertical pixels.
Yes it can. The resolution of 1080i is 1920 x 1080, so the full image is shown.
There isn't a full image just two half images seperated in time by 1/50 second. In many cases there aren't 1920 columns of data either.
Of course there is a full image, unless you're telling me when I pause my TV that the image is only half there. Now I know how 1080i is delivered to the screen, but clearly the full image is there.
You are looking at two different images seperated in time by 1/50 second if the action is fast and you look closely you can see the slightly jaggy effect of the time difference. Different TV's handle the process in different ways. You could argue the same about 504 x 576 SD channels. You still see 1920 x 1080 pixels and you also see 1920 x 1080 when the transmission is 1440 x 1080.
Like I said, I know how 1080i is delievered, that doesn't stop the fact that when you pause your TV, there is one full image, hence the resolution of 1080i being 1920 x 1080, hence that a 1080p TV can display 1080i.
If you consider two slightly different pictures each with 540 lines as one image, I don't. In any case the point is that if it's impossible to tell the difference your argument is merely semantics which no one that understands TV's agrees with.
An HD-Ready set by definition is capable of displaying 1080i or 720P transmissions (thats from the EICTA specs, i rather think they should know about these things). There is no requirement for 1:1 pixel mapping and for years there was no 1920 x 1080 sources only 1440 x 1080.
SBS 3D is 1080i would you say that you have 1 image or two :eek: On a normal TV you see two different pictures side by side squashed 50% horizontally.
Of course I consider it one image, it's what I can see on my screen.
An HD set by definition can never display 1080i, it doesn't have enough pixels to be able to display 1080i, I'm sorry but that's a fact you can't argue with. It's not my fault EICTA can't use the correct use of English when describing something. Quite why you would think a HD Ready TV could display 720p and 1080i is beyond me, they both have a different resolution.
Take a look at the table here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready
Do I take you can't watch 576i on your full-HD TV as it doesn't have 576 lines ? Can a HD-Ready display watch a 720p signal (TV's with 720 lines are as rare as hens teeth).