Apparently Clattenburg said something along the lines of "You didn't use to be like this before you started playing for England" in response to Lallana's antics.
Southampton should have a word with their 'precious' Lallana.
Apparently Clattenburg said something along the lines of "You didn't use to be like this before you started playing for England" in response to Lallana's antics.
He may not be playing for England much longer if he keeps causing trouble like this.
In fact out of the eight games Clattenburg has refereed Southampton, the Saints have not won one.
Actually got this one wrong, he has refereed eight Premier League games for Saints, but I didn't check his lower division record since he was promoted to mainly Premier League duties and there it was 9th April 2011, League One, Leyton Orient 0 Saints 2, so we have got one win from him.
The FA have been far too ready to bow down to ( particularly apparently ) big clubs' pressure / wishes in the past in keeping certain referrees away from certain clubs.
All clubs should just be given officials on a relatively normal rota and told to like it or lump it !
Actually got this one wrong, he has refereed eight Premier League games for Saints, but I didn't check his lower division record since he was promoted to mainly Premier League duties and there it was 9th April 2011, League One, Leyton Orient 0 Saints 2, so we have got one win from him.
"One win from him" ?
I wasn't aware that clubs should be achieving some minimum quota of wins under each referee and / or that it was in the referree's power to provide this.
"Clattenburg, sort it out, you've only given Southampton one win !"
I wasn't aware that clubs should be achieving some minimum quota of wins under each referee and / or that it was in the referree's power to provide this.
"Clattenburg, sort it out, you've only given Southampton one win !"
That's not what I'm saying. But given the controversial incidents that Clattenburg has been involved with it's not surprising that Southampton's record with him as referee is worse than Southampton's record without him as referee. It could be mere chance that Clattenburg seems to referee Southampton more harshly than other referees but it just might be bias.
Let's look at yellow cards issued, last season Southampton were one of the least penalised clubs in the league with 43 yellow cards, but in the five games Mark Clattenburg refereed Saints got 11. This season so far we've had 36 from 20 games, in the two games he's refereed, he's given out 7.
Matches without Mark Clattenburg as referee, 51 games, 61 yellow cards, average of 1.19 per game
Matches with Mark Clattenburg as referee, 7 games, 18 yellow cards, average of 2.57 per game
Again, that could be mere chance and it is a small sample size, but it could be some kind of bias at work.
That's not what I'm saying. But given the controversial incidents that Clattenburg has been involved with it's not surprising that Southampton's record with him as referee is worse than Southampton's record without him as referee. It could be mere chance that Clattenburg seems to referee Southampton more harshly than other referees but it just might be bias.
Let's look at yellow cards issued, last season Southampton were one of the least penalised clubs in the league with 43 yellow cards, but in the five games Mark Clattenburg refereed Saints got 11. This season so far we've had 36 from 20 games, in the two games he's refereed, he's given out 7.
Matches without Mark Clattenburg as referee, 51 games, 61 yellow cards, average of 1.19 per game
Matches with Mark Clattenburg as referee, 7 games, 18 yellow cards, average of 2.57 per game
Again, that could be mere chance and it is a small sample size, but it could be some kind of bias at work.
Or it could be that your players dont like him and take their frustrations out on the pitch??
Let's look at yellow cards issued, last season Southampton were one of the least penalised clubs in the league with 43 yellow cards, but in the five games Mark Clattenburg refereed Saints got 11. This season so far we've had 36 from 20 games, in the two games he's refereed, he's given out 7.
Matches without Mark Clattenburg as referee, 51 games, 61 yellow cards, average of 1.19 per game
Matches with Mark Clattenburg as referee, 7 games, 18 yellow cards, average of 2.57 per game
Again, that could be mere chance and it is a small sample size, but it could be some kind of bias at work.
How many cards did he issue to the opposition in those Southampton games, out of interest?
I see that the club are suggesting that Clattenburg should not officiate in any of their matches. The Authorities have made a decision, and this really is a battle that should go no further, as the precedents would be horrendous. Move on, and if Saints want to boycott any match, forfeit the points. Someone at the club needs to get a handle on this, as they are in danger of becoming a laughing stock, and the player being mocked by players and fans. I can see a rush on sales of Kleenex this week.
How many cards did he issue to the opposition in those Southampton games, out of interest?
For Seasons 2012/13 and 2013/14 (to January 1st 2014)
Mark Clattenburg
Premier League games not involving Southampton, 27 games, 87 yellow cards = 1.61 yellow cards per team per game
Premier League games involving Southampton, 7 games, 18 yellow cards to Southampton = 2.57 per game
Premier League games involving Southampton, 7 games, 7 yellow cards to Southampton opponents = 1.00 per game
Or it could be that your players dont like him and take their frustrations out on the pitch??
That's completely possible that it's just something that's got into their heads but that then leads to the question, why Mark Clattenburg? It is accepted that Clattenburg does make snide comments to players and coaches, there was that incident when he was snide about Craig Bellamy at half time, then proceeded to send him off in the second half for diving when the tv replays suggested he had been fouled. That decision to send Craig Bellamy off might have just a genuine mistake but it hasn't been helped by Clattenburg's previous comments. All referees are going to make mistakes, but it's Clattenburg's manner that makes it appear as if the mistakes are the result of intentional bias.
I see that the club are suggesting that Clattenburg should not officiate in any of their matches. The Authorities have made a decision, and this really is a battle that should go no further, as the precedents would be horrendous. Move on, and if Saints want to boycott any match, forfeit the points. Someone at the club needs to get a handle on this, as they are in danger of becoming a laughing stock, and the player being mocked by players and fans. I can see a rush on sales of Kleenex this week.
I kind of agree with you that the precedents would be horrendous, the trouble is that already is a precedent for this, Everton were very annoyed about Clattenburg's refereeing of their match v Liverpool in 2007 and as a result he wasn't appointed to an Everton game for four years and not appointed to a home Everton game for six years. If that's allowed to happen, why shouldn't Southampton get four years without Mark Clattenburg? If other fans want to mock Lallana and Southampton, then it shouldn't bother anyone at the club. I've lost track how many times we've been called "a laughing stock" most recently when Cortese sacked Adkins and brought in Pochettino, another one won't hurt us.
For Seasons 2012/13 and 2013/14 (to January 1st 2014)
Mark Clattenburg
Premier League games not involving Southampton, 27 games, 87 yellow cards = 1.61 yellow cards per team per game
Premier League games involving Southampton, 7 games, 18 yellow cards to Southampton = 2.57 per game
Premier League games involving Southampton, 7 games, 7 yellow cards to Southampton opponents = 1.00 per game
That's completely possible that it's just something that's got into their heads but that then leads to the question, why Mark Clattenburg? It is accepted that Clattenburg does make snide comments to players and coaches, there was that incident when he was snide about Craig Bellamy at half time, then proceeded to send him off in the second half for diving when the tv replays suggested he had been fouled. That decision to send Craig Bellamy off might have just a genuine mistake but it hasn't been helped by Clattenburg's previous comments. All referees are going to make mistakes, but it's Clattenburg's manner that makes it appear as if the mistakes are the result of intentional bias.
I kind of agree with you that the precedents would be horrendous, the trouble is that already is a precedent for this, Everton were very annoyed about Clattenburg's refereeing of their match v Liverpool in 2007 and as a result he wasn't appointed to an Everton game for four years and not appointed to a home Everton game for six years. If that's allowed to happen, why shouldn't Southampton get four years without Mark Clattenburg? If other fans want to mock Lallana and Southampton, then it shouldn't bother anyone at the club. I've lost track how many times we've been called "a laughing stock" most recently when Cortese sacked Adkins and brought in Pochettino, another one won't hurt us.
Are you SURE you're a football fan? Far to balanced and open to other peoples views to be a real fan. What's the matter with shooting everyone down with insults???
Are you SURE you're a football fan? Far to balanced and open to other peoples views to be a real fan. What's the matter with shooting everyone down with insults???
Yep, I'm as biased as everyone else is.
Interestingly, Southampton are still pushing this with a new story appearing in the Daily Mail (who seem to have some pipeline from St Mary's). It's hard to see how Southampton can "win" in this situation, the PGMOL will now look toothless if Clattenburg isn't appointed to a least one Saints game in the remainder of the season so I expect that to happen. However there will be a lot of media attention on that game, maybe that's what Southampton want.
Thinking about why Cortese is pushing this unpromising case so fiercely, I wonder if Cortese, being Italian, thinks that something like Calciopoli is happening in English football. While that does seem unlikely, the current mysterious appointment process could be corrupted. It's possible that Cortese wonders why Southampton keep getting Clattenburg, 7 out of 58 games when Clattenburg's only 1 of 16 premier league referees.
But it's exactly what you did say. Basically implying he makes sure you don't win. It's rather revealing of how you expect referees to behave. Being unbiased does not mean equal outcomes to both sides. Evening up yellow card decisions, fouls given, etc.
But given the controversial incidents that Clattenburg has been involved with it's not surprising that Southampton's record with him as referee is worse than Southampton's record without him as referee. It could be mere chance that Clattenburg seems to referee Southampton more harshly than other referees but it just might be bias.
That doesn't make sense. His being involved in controversial incidents does not make it unsurprising he's biased against Southampton.
Let's look at yellow cards issued, last season Southampton were one of the least penalised clubs in the league with 43 yellow cards, but in the five games Mark Clattenburg refereed Saints got 11. This season so far we've had 36 from 20 games, in the two games he's refereed, he's given out 7.
Matches without Mark Clattenburg as referee, 51 games, 61 yellow cards, average of 1.19 per game
Matches with Mark Clattenburg as referee, 7 games, 18 yellow cards, average of 2.57 per game
Again, that could be mere chance and it is a small sample size, but it could be some kind of bias at work.
It is a very small sample size and as with wins, yellow cards tend to result from what players do during a game. A biased referee can't simply dole out yellow cards on a whim. Their performance in every match is assessed and if bias was noticed it would be reported.
Even if Southampton are totally convinced Clattenburg is biased against them, they must let the authorities deal with it in the correct way as more evidence, if any, emerges. It won't do them any good trying to fabricate a case against him.
It is accepted that Clattenburg does make snide comments to players and coaches, there was that incident when he was snide about Craig Bellamy at half time, then proceeded to send him off in the second half for diving when the tv replays suggested he had been fouled. That decision to send Craig Bellamy off might have just a genuine mistake but it hasn't been helped by Clattenburg's previous comments. All referees are going to make mistakes, but it's Clattenburg's manner that makes it appear as if the mistakes are the result of intentional bias.
Accepted by whom? Mark Hughes perhaps. The Bellamy sending off was over 5 years ago, and Mark Hughes complaining about perceived injustice is not exactly uncommon. Bellamy is no shrinking violet and it's quite possible Clattenburg felt it was justified mentioning his first half behaviour to City staff to try and put a lid on things. Nor is it unknown for a player to get two yellows over one incident, even if the first one was an error. Anyway I don't see how this incident 5 years ago relates in any way to his alleged behaviour towards of Southampton now. He's known for talking a lot to players during games, it's mentioned in the PGMOL report, but how much of what he says in a game is actually snide?
What Clattenburg admits he said to Lallana was hardly snide and could never realistically be regarded as an insult. It might actually reflect the truth of his experience dealing with Lallana on the field.
I kind of agree with you that the precedents would be horrendous, the trouble is that already is a precedent for this, Everton were very annoyed about Clattenburg's refereeing of their match v Liverpool in 2007 and as a result he wasn't appointed to an Everton game for four years and not appointed to a home Everton game for six years. If that's allowed to happen, why shouldn't Southampton get four years without Mark Clattenburg? If other fans want to mock Lallana and Southampton, then it shouldn't bother anyone at the club. I've lost track how many times we've been called "a laughing stock" most recently when Cortese sacked Adkins and brought in Pochettino, another one won't hurt us.
Southampton risk the same kind of ridicule Chelsea got for pursuing a such a case without much to back it up.
The club continuing to push it for whatever reason makes Lallana look foolish too for reporting it in the first place. Adopting a "doesn't bother us" siege mentality about it won't help. Basically, if you are in a hole it's best to stop digging. Southampton should let it go. They can't win because the FA will still appoint Clattenburg to their games, and quite rightly so.
Why should Southampton get four years without Clattenburg for this "insult"? If they accuse Clattenburg of bias and it's proven then maybe there would be justification for such a thing. But creating an insult accusation and refusing to give it up to get at him that way would be dishonest.
Comments
Southampton should have a word with their 'precious' Lallana.
He's making them look like right charlies.
He may not be playing for England much longer if he keeps causing trouble like this.
And so he should
Rooney and co are going to take the pee out of him aren't they!
Start calling him names to see how Lallana reacts.
All clubs should just be given officials on a relatively normal rota and told to like it or lump it !
"One win from him" ?
I wasn't aware that clubs should be achieving some minimum quota of wins under each referee and / or that it was in the referree's power to provide this.
"Clattenburg, sort it out, you've only given Southampton one win !"
True, you can't see an England squad putting up with this sort of behaviour.
Let's look at yellow cards issued, last season Southampton were one of the least penalised clubs in the league with 43 yellow cards, but in the five games Mark Clattenburg refereed Saints got 11. This season so far we've had 36 from 20 games, in the two games he's refereed, he's given out 7.
Matches without Mark Clattenburg as referee, 51 games, 61 yellow cards, average of 1.19 per game
Matches with Mark Clattenburg as referee, 7 games, 18 yellow cards, average of 2.57 per game
Again, that could be mere chance and it is a small sample size, but it could be some kind of bias at work.
Or it could be that your players dont like him and take their frustrations out on the pitch??
How many cards did he issue to the opposition in those Southampton games, out of interest?
For Seasons 2012/13 and 2013/14 (to January 1st 2014)
Mark Clattenburg
Premier League games not involving Southampton, 27 games, 87 yellow cards = 1.61 yellow cards per team per game
Premier League games involving Southampton, 7 games, 18 yellow cards to Southampton = 2.57 per game
Premier League games involving Southampton, 7 games, 7 yellow cards to Southampton opponents = 1.00 per game
That's completely possible that it's just something that's got into their heads but that then leads to the question, why Mark Clattenburg? It is accepted that Clattenburg does make snide comments to players and coaches, there was that incident when he was snide about Craig Bellamy at half time, then proceeded to send him off in the second half for diving when the tv replays suggested he had been fouled. That decision to send Craig Bellamy off might have just a genuine mistake but it hasn't been helped by Clattenburg's previous comments. All referees are going to make mistakes, but it's Clattenburg's manner that makes it appear as if the mistakes are the result of intentional bias.
I kind of agree with you that the precedents would be horrendous, the trouble is that already is a precedent for this, Everton were very annoyed about Clattenburg's refereeing of their match v Liverpool in 2007 and as a result he wasn't appointed to an Everton game for four years and not appointed to a home Everton game for six years. If that's allowed to happen, why shouldn't Southampton get four years without Mark Clattenburg? If other fans want to mock Lallana and Southampton, then it shouldn't bother anyone at the club. I've lost track how many times we've been called "a laughing stock" most recently when Cortese sacked Adkins and brought in Pochettino, another one won't hurt us.
Are you SURE you're a football fan? Far to balanced and open to other peoples views to be a real fan. What's the matter with shooting everyone down with insults???
Interestingly, Southampton are still pushing this with a new story appearing in the Daily Mail (who seem to have some pipeline from St Mary's). It's hard to see how Southampton can "win" in this situation, the PGMOL will now look toothless if Clattenburg isn't appointed to a least one Saints game in the remainder of the season so I expect that to happen. However there will be a lot of media attention on that game, maybe that's what Southampton want.
Thinking about why Cortese is pushing this unpromising case so fiercely, I wonder if Cortese, being Italian, thinks that something like Calciopoli is happening in English football. While that does seem unlikely, the current mysterious appointment process could be corrupted. It's possible that Cortese wonders why Southampton keep getting Clattenburg, 7 out of 58 games when Clattenburg's only 1 of 16 premier league referees.
That doesn't make sense. His being involved in controversial incidents does not make it unsurprising he's biased against Southampton.
It is a very small sample size and as with wins, yellow cards tend to result from what players do during a game. A biased referee can't simply dole out yellow cards on a whim. Their performance in every match is assessed and if bias was noticed it would be reported.
Even if Southampton are totally convinced Clattenburg is biased against them, they must let the authorities deal with it in the correct way as more evidence, if any, emerges. It won't do them any good trying to fabricate a case against him.
Accepted by whom? Mark Hughes perhaps. The Bellamy sending off was over 5 years ago, and Mark Hughes complaining about perceived injustice is not exactly uncommon. Bellamy is no shrinking violet and it's quite possible Clattenburg felt it was justified mentioning his first half behaviour to City staff to try and put a lid on things. Nor is it unknown for a player to get two yellows over one incident, even if the first one was an error. Anyway I don't see how this incident 5 years ago relates in any way to his alleged behaviour towards of Southampton now. He's known for talking a lot to players during games, it's mentioned in the PGMOL report, but how much of what he says in a game is actually snide?
What Clattenburg admits he said to Lallana was hardly snide and could never realistically be regarded as an insult. It might actually reflect the truth of his experience dealing with Lallana on the field.
Southampton risk the same kind of ridicule Chelsea got for pursuing a such a case without much to back it up.
The club continuing to push it for whatever reason makes Lallana look foolish too for reporting it in the first place. Adopting a "doesn't bother us" siege mentality about it won't help. Basically, if you are in a hole it's best to stop digging. Southampton should let it go. They can't win because the FA will still appoint Clattenburg to their games, and quite rightly so.
Why should Southampton get four years without Clattenburg for this "insult"? If they accuse Clattenburg of bias and it's proven then maybe there would be justification for such a thing. But creating an insult accusation and refusing to give it up to get at him that way would be dishonest.