I wondered that. Also, they are advertising a new BT Youview box on their website. If the vision box is being phased out how will they offer Sky Sports?
Probably via their IPTV offerings via broadband I would guess.
BT has the Youview Box and the Vision Box. The packages are roughly the same except that the Youview Box has a HD receiver for the DTT HD channels and the extra channels are delivered over Infinity broadband (including SKY. Sports, BT Sports etc. The DTT HD channels for the Vision Box are also delivered over Infinity.
The default is the Youview Box unless you want Sky Sports. BT cannot get agreement to have Sky Sports on their Youview package. So you will therefore get a Vision Box has they still have an agreement for Sky Sports to 2016 (i think).
BT has the Youview Box and the Vision Box. The packages are roughly the same except that the Youview Box has a HD receiver for the DTT HD channels and the extra channels are delivered over Infinity broadband (including SKY. Sports, BT Sports etc. The DTT HD channels for the Vision Box are also delivered over Infinity.
Well that news to me when did Sky and BT sports do a deal?
This article, http://www.a516digital.com/2014/04/bt-vision-to-close-this-summer.html which has been amended since it first appeared is still making some assumptions. If a customer had a silver box and was in contract or wanted to add Sky Sports at the time then they would have had the silver replaced with a "newer" black box. So the vast majority of these silver box customers would be PAYG customers which was also an option when the BT Vision service was launched.
So removing these silver boxes doesn't bring forward the demise of the BT Sports (which replaced Sky Sports on DTT), any more or less likely than before.
This article, http://www.a516digital.com/2014/04/bt-vision-to-close-this-summer.html which has been amended since it first appeared is still making some assumptions. If a customer had a silver box and was in contract or wanted to add Sky Sports at the time then they would have had the silver replaced with a "newer" black box. So the vast majority of these silver box customers would be PAYG customers which was also an option when the BT Vision service was launched.
So removing these silver boxes doesn't bring forward the demise of the BT Sports (which replaced Sky Sports on DTT), any more or less likely than before.
Do you get these channels thought DTT LCN 58 & 59?
This article, http://www.a516digital.com/2014/04/bt-vision-to-close-this-summer.html which has been amended since it first appeared is still making some assumptions. If a customer had a silver box and was in contract or wanted to add Sky Sports at the time then they would have had the silver replaced with a "newer" black box. So the vast majority of these silver box customers would be PAYG customers which was also an option when the BT Vision service was launched.
So removing these silver boxes doesn't bring forward the demise of the BT Sports (which replaced Sky Sports on DTT), any more or less likely than before.
Indeed - so the title of this thread is totally incorrect and misleading, so should be locked.
Well I can't make head nor tail of it. Clearly the "silver" BT vision boxes are being switched off on 30 June but not the "black" BT Vision boxes. How do the black boxes work? Do they use the DTT transmissions? Pardon my ignorance, I'm not that au fait with BT Vision.
Also, I've no idea why people wanting HD channels have hijacked this thread, you wouldn't get half an HD channel into this space and it's not on a DVB-T2 mulitplex.
Clearly the "silver" BT vision boxes are being switched off on 30 June but not the "black" BT Vision boxes. How do the black boxes work? Do they use the DTT transmissions? Pardon my ignorance, I'm not that au fait with BT Vision.
I think they all do. Upthread, Stew mentioned that the black ones also support IPTV. The only conclusion that I make from this, is that BT Sport's DTT transmissions are ending, and the black boxes will get BT Sport over IPTV instead of broadcast.
But there are people saying that isn't what's happening because only the silver boxes are being replaced.
The only conclusion that I make from this, is that BT Sport's DTT transmissions are ending, and the black boxes will get BT Sport over IPTV instead of broadcast.
I would agree with your conclusion. BT are (quite rightly) trying to unify their method of broadcasting. Moving to the already existing IP feeds would certainly reduce broadcast costs - no duplication, no mux fees, etc.
Interesting point of note:
When IP channels became available on YouView, BT changed the LCNs of their channels on the Black Vision boxes to match the ones YouView had assigned (YouView manage all the IP LCNs cross-provider so that they are consistent). The move of BT Sport to IP would complete this unification.
Just to recap.
The Silver boxes run on Windows CE.
The Black boxes have been upgraded to Linux.
Customers in contract or wanted added channels above DTT/VOD were upgraded to the Black Boxes.
That left the Silver boxes either having no extra channels or PAYG.
Removing the silver boxes means no Boxes running on Windows CE.
No change to the number of customers receiving BT Sports over DTT.
Just to recap.
The Silver boxes run on Windows CE.
The Black boxes have been upgraded to Linux.
Customers in contract or wanted added channels above DTT/VOD were upgraded to the Black Boxes.
That left the Silver boxes either having no extra channels or PAYG.
Removing the silver boxes means no Boxes running on Windows CE.
No change to the number of customers receiving BT Sports over DTT.
Can we stop with all this black box please.BT are given/replacing the older boxes with youview that does not have DTT channels.
Do you have facts or is this just what you thinks happening?
Customers in contract or wanted added channels above DTT/VOD were upgraded to the Black Boxes.
That left the Silver boxes either having no extra channels or PAYG.
Removing the silver boxes means no Boxes running on Windows CE.
No change to the number of customers receiving BT Sports over DTT.
See, this is why I'm getting confused. Nobody with a silver box is receiving BT Sport? So doing a wholesale replacement of them all doesn't seem to be of any benefit.
But you say "above DTT". BT Sport is a DTT channel, so customers using the silver boxes can get BT Sport? But you say they are not?
Just to recap.
The Silver boxes run on Windows CE.
The Black boxes have been upgraded to Linux.
Customers in contract or wanted added channels above DTT/VOD were upgraded to the Black Boxes.
That left the Silver boxes either having no extra channels or PAYG.
Removing the silver boxes means no Boxes running on Windows CE.
No change to the number of customers receiving BT Sports over DTT.
Great summary. There's been a lot of unnecessary confusion around but your post nails it. The only point to add is BT's reason for replacing the silver boxes. Presumably because it's not cost effective to support a small number of silver boxes running a different operating system?
See, this is why I'm getting confused. Nobody with a silver box is receiving BT Sport? So doing a wholesale replacement of them all doesn't seem to be of any benefit.
But you say "above DTT". BT Sport is a DTT channel, so customers using the silver boxes can get BT Sport? But you say they are not?
Per my above post, it saves BT money from having to support another operating system on top of Linux for the black boxes and YouView.
BT Sport is not just on DTT, it's also on IPTV available via the black boxes on 507, 508 with ESPN on 509. It's also available on YouView on these channel numbers too.
BT are replacing the older boxes with youview that does not have DTT channels.
By older you presumably mean the silver BT Vision boxes. YouView does have all the Freeview SD and HD DTT channels on it. However, it cannot decrypt the encrypted DTT channels used for BT Sport in non-fibre multicast areas, ie channels 58 and 59. However, that's not a problem for silver box users who don't subscribe to these channels. If these users want to access BT Sport in the future (remember, they get it free with their broadband) then chances are they will be able to via the IPTV channels 507-509. If not now, very soon.
So the newer BT Vision boxes support live IPTV, but the older ones don't? So the newer ones potentially could take BT Sport over IP?
The new black boxes offer the same range of extra channels as the YouView boxes offer plus two more - Sky Sports 1 & 2.
The Pace black Vision + boxes have two advantages over YouView at the moment:
1) They are able to decrypt DTT channels. This is of benefit for customers whose BT broadband does not support IPTV. Such numbers are decreasing rapidly as fibre is rolled out.
2) BT has a contract with Sky to resell Sky Sports 1 & 2 on the BT Vision+ box but not on YouView. It is likely that Ofcom will compel Sky to extend this to BT's YouView boxes as well but as it stands, BT cannot sell BT Sport over YouView. BT distributes Sky Sports over IPTV to the black Vision+ boxes.
As can be seen, the advantages of the black BT Vision boxes are reducing over time.
See, this is why I'm getting confused. Nobody with a silver box is receiving BT Sport? So doing a wholesale replacement of them all doesn't seem to be of any benefit.
But you say "above DTT" ?
I think if you replace "above DTT" with "above Freeview" it's clearer.
The new black boxes offer the same range of extra channels as the YouView boxes offer plus two more - Sky Sports 1 & 2.
The Pace black Vision + boxes have two advantages over YouView at the moment:
1) They are able to decrypt DTT channels. This is of benefit for customers whose BT broadband does not support IPTV. Such numbers are decreasing rapidly as fibre is rolled out.
2) BT has a contract with Sky to resell Sky Sports 1 & 2 on the BT Vision+ box but not on YouView. It is likely that Ofcom will compel Sky to extend this to BT's YouView boxes as well but as it stands, BT cannot sell BT Sport over YouView. BT distributes Sky Sports over IPTV to the black Vision+ boxes.
As can be seen, the advantages of the black BT Vision boxes are reducing over time.
If Ofcom are going to press Sky into wholesaling Sky sports 1 & 2 to BT then by rights they should make BT wholesale BT Sports 1 & 2 to Sky, Virgin and Talk Talk, even if those other platforms have to charge their customers more for them, its a fair deal.
Then BT can scrap their Vision boxes for good.
I have BT Vision. When BT sport Came out I had a Silver Box, I was unable to get BT sport because I had a silver box and had to upgrade to the black box (which by the way has a horrible user interface and is a step backwards in functionality compared to the silver ones).
The sent me a you view box by accident, but because I do not live in an Infinity enabled area I can not use a you view box to recieve BT sport. The Black Vision+ Box receives it not over infinity but differently.
BT Are not ending BT vision but are getting rid of the old boxes that can no longer function on the network in a way that suits them.
If you do not live in an infinity area and try to take TV with them they still offer the black Vision+ Box (though you sometimes have to push certain operators who are not trained well enough).
Not quite sure why they keep pushing infinity as quite a large number of areas are not infinity enabled. My exchange is turned on but until they upgrade the cabinets I can not get it. We have been told that there are no plans to upgrade the cabinet within the next year - our exchange was upgraded 18 months ago...
Edited to add -
I liked the way BT say they are saving you 199 pounds on a you view box when you contract yourself, when really they only cost customers 35 pounds when taking out a contract
Comments
Probably via their IPTV offerings via broadband I would guess.
The default is the Youview Box unless you want Sky Sports. BT cannot get agreement to have Sky Sports on their Youview package. So you will therefore get a Vision Box has they still have an agreement for Sky Sports to 2016 (i think).
Well that news to me when did Sky and BT sports do a deal?
That ok.I guess we'll find out for sure on 30/6/14.More information might be released in the coming weeks.
So removing these silver boxes doesn't bring forward the demise of the BT Sports (which replaced Sky Sports on DTT), any more or less likely than before.
Add nhk world and kix to the list, and I agree....
A sports channel would be most peoples 1st choice (maybe)
Or the addition of the rest of the Channel 4 family in HD
More4 HD,
E4 HD
maybe 4seven HD (but not even launched on Sky yet)
With speculation on ownership of Channel 5, doubt we will see Channel 5HD
I would go with E4HD and Film 4 HD along with CBS Action if it can be squeezed in somewhere
Do you get these channels thought DTT LCN 58 & 59?
Indeed - so the title of this thread is totally incorrect and misleading, so should be locked.
Also, I've no idea why people wanting HD channels have hijacked this thread, you wouldn't get half an HD channel into this space and it's not on a DVB-T2 mulitplex.
Me neither.
I think they all do. Upthread, Stew mentioned that the black ones also support IPTV. The only conclusion that I make from this, is that BT Sport's DTT transmissions are ending, and the black boxes will get BT Sport over IPTV instead of broadcast.
But there are people saying that isn't what's happening because only the silver boxes are being replaced.
I would agree with your conclusion. BT are (quite rightly) trying to unify their method of broadcasting. Moving to the already existing IP feeds would certainly reduce broadcast costs - no duplication, no mux fees, etc.
Interesting point of note:
When IP channels became available on YouView, BT changed the LCNs of their channels on the Black Vision boxes to match the ones YouView had assigned (YouView manage all the IP LCNs cross-provider so that they are consistent). The move of BT Sport to IP would complete this unification.
The Silver boxes run on Windows CE.
The Black boxes have been upgraded to Linux.
Customers in contract or wanted added channels above DTT/VOD were upgraded to the Black Boxes.
That left the Silver boxes either having no extra channels or PAYG.
Removing the silver boxes means no Boxes running on Windows CE.
No change to the number of customers receiving BT Sports over DTT.
Can we stop with all this black box please.BT are given/replacing the older boxes with youview that does not have DTT channels.
Do you have facts or is this just what you thinks happening?
See, this is why I'm getting confused. Nobody with a silver box is receiving BT Sport? So doing a wholesale replacement of them all doesn't seem to be of any benefit.
But you say "above DTT". BT Sport is a DTT channel, so customers using the silver boxes can get BT Sport? But you say they are not?
BT Sport is not just on DTT, it's also on IPTV available via the black boxes on 507, 508 with ESPN on 509. It's also available on YouView on these channel numbers too.
He's right and the original post by a516a has since been updated.
The Pace black Vision + boxes have two advantages over YouView at the moment:
1) They are able to decrypt DTT channels. This is of benefit for customers whose BT broadband does not support IPTV. Such numbers are decreasing rapidly as fibre is rolled out.
2) BT has a contract with Sky to resell Sky Sports 1 & 2 on the BT Vision+ box but not on YouView. It is likely that Ofcom will compel Sky to extend this to BT's YouView boxes as well but as it stands, BT cannot sell BT Sport over YouView. BT distributes Sky Sports over IPTV to the black Vision+ boxes.
As can be seen, the advantages of the black BT Vision boxes are reducing over time.
If Ofcom are going to press Sky into wholesaling Sky sports 1 & 2 to BT then by rights they should make BT wholesale BT Sports 1 & 2 to Sky, Virgin and Talk Talk, even if those other platforms have to charge their customers more for them, its a fair deal.
Then BT can scrap their Vision boxes for good.
The sent me a you view box by accident, but because I do not live in an Infinity enabled area I can not use a you view box to recieve BT sport. The Black Vision+ Box receives it not over infinity but differently.
BT Are not ending BT vision but are getting rid of the old boxes that can no longer function on the network in a way that suits them.
If you do not live in an infinity area and try to take TV with them they still offer the black Vision+ Box (though you sometimes have to push certain operators who are not trained well enough).
Not quite sure why they keep pushing infinity as quite a large number of areas are not infinity enabled. My exchange is turned on but until they upgrade the cabinets I can not get it. We have been told that there are no plans to upgrade the cabinet within the next year - our exchange was upgraded 18 months ago...
Edited to add -
I liked the way BT say they are saving you 199 pounds on a you view box when you contract yourself, when really they only cost customers 35 pounds when taking out a contract