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Wheeler Dealers

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    allafixallafix Posts: 20,690
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    Anybody watching the latest series?

    The last episode where they bought a Messerschmitt was a strange one to choose.

    It looked unsafe on the roads. Even Mike was too nervous to drive it back to the workshop. Can't believe the high amounts they fetch. :o

    First time I can recall Edd China costing them money when he broke the dome. Bloody expensive crack.
    They chose the Messershmitt because it's an iconic classic. Obviously not as safe as a modern car, but probably better than a quad bike or scooter. In the UK they were taxed and regulated as motorbikes, and that's the comparison you should make. The reason they get the high amounts is supply and demand.

    Always been one of my favourite cars, so I enjoyed the episode. Someone had one near where I lived as a kid. As a keen aircraft enthusiast I knew all about Messershmitt 109s. I had no idea before then that Messershmitt had made cars let alone one that looked like a 109 fighter cockpit. Shame they are so pricey now as I'd love to own one.

    I thought the programme was honest in showing Edd mess up the original dome.
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    kegsiekegsie Posts: 2,801
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    The Citroën HY Van episode was probably the worst one they have ever done.

    Complete waste of an hour. What did Edd actually fix? Nothing. He just replaced the engine with a new one ditto the transmission. The whole body shell (that was bought completely rusted through in parts) was sent off to the paint shop and came back 'as new' :confused: The brakes were shot according to Mike, but were never mentioned again.

    Everything on that van was replaced with new apart from the trafficators which were refurbished.

    The only ting we saw was all the electrics being installed. Not really mechanical, but at least we actually saw what happened.

    This was a one off for me as I have enjoyed every episode they have made, but this one was just not for me.

    I thought it was ok. I suppose they can only really show Edd replacing brake shoes or suspension bushes so many times so tried something different.

    One thing though those trafficators looked awful with the LEDs in. Like cheap Christmas decorations
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    allafixallafix Posts: 20,690
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    best boy wrote: »
    File under 'Fiction'.
    Apart from conveniently 'forgetting' that labour actually costs money, the parts costs suggest it was recorded in 1945.
    Yesterday - a Porsche 928 - Mike 'bought' four used alloy wheels (and tyres!) for £35 total. As if that wasn't bogus enough, the guy he bought them off did him a straight swap for four manky wheels that came with the car.
    Utter tripe.
    Firstly the free labour. This show is meant to represent home enthusiast classic rebuild projects. Edd China tries to do as much as possible in terms of what a home enthusiast could attempt. You don't price your own labour in such projects. Clearly it's not meant to be Edd and Mike operating a real business, nor does it ever pretend to be. Watch 'Fast and Furious' for something like that.

    The spares prices? Always seem reasonable to me, especially when they are bought from a dealer or factory. Parts picked up from a scrapper, as they often show, would be much cheaper. So much depends on rarity and quality.

    It's an entertainment show not a documentary. Calling it fiction is hardly fair. Much of it is clearly set up though. The car purchase for example. They wouldn't set off with a camera crew unless they new they were going to buy the car. The price is probably agreed before filming too. Some trades may not even be genuine. A few episodes ago the original owner supposedly bought his car back after the rebuild. That didn't ring true at all. I assume it was all agreed in advance. He got his car upgraded, WD got a film out of it. But it doesn't really matter as it's really all about the car. The rest is just a setting.

    I watch it mainly because of an interest in the engineering aspects. I don't care about the "dealer" side of it and usually FF through Mike's car trader chat.
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    Compton_scatterCompton_scatter Posts: 2,711
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    best boy wrote: »
    File under 'Fiction'.
    Apart from conveniently 'forgetting' that labour actually costs money, the parts costs suggest it was recorded in 1945.
    Yesterday - a Porsche 928 - Mike 'bought' four used alloy wheels (and tyres!) for £35 total. As if that wasn't bogus enough, the guy he bought them off did him a straight swap for four manky wheels that came with the car.
    Utter tripe.

    I remember this, they were that awful brown colour but apparently they were rare BBS alloys so the trader obviously jumped at the swap.
    allafix wrote: »
    Firstly the free labour. This show is meant to represent home enthusiast classic rebuild projects. Edd China tries to do as much as possible in terms of what a home enthusiast could attempt. You don't price your own labour in such projects. Clearly it's not meant to be Edd and Mike operating a real business, nor does it ever pretend to be. Watch 'Fast and Furious' for something like that.

    The spares prices? Always seem reasonable to me, especially when they are bought from a dealer or factory. Parts picked up from a scrapper, as they often show, would be much cheaper. So much depends on rarity and quality.

    It's an entertainment show not a documentary. Calling it fiction is hardly fair. Much of it is clearly set up though. The car purchase for example. They wouldn't set off with a camera crew unless they new they were going to buy the car. The price is probably agreed before filming too. Some trades may not even be genuine. A few episodes ago the original owner supposedly bought his car back after the rebuild. That didn't ring true at all. I assume it was all agreed in advance. He got his car upgraded, WD got a film out of it. But it doesn't really matter as it's really all about the car. The rest is just a setting.

    I watch it mainly because of an interest in the engineering aspects. I don't care about the "dealer" side of it and usually FF through Mike's car trader chat.

    Yeah Ed usually says if you took this to a specialist they would charge about xxx pounds. I can remember two instances where the sellers bought their cars back, the Porsche 914 and the Mazda RX7 (with the awful leopard skin effect!).

    I've noticed a few times they forget to mention some costs in the final tally, especially cars bought abroad that they re-register with UK plates - surely the DVLA wouldn't do this for free?
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    andy1231andy1231 Posts: 5,100
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    I'm sure I read somewhere that the "buyers" at the end of each programme are not real people but friends of or even members of the production team. Some cars never get sold and that they have an ebay account as well as their own site where you can buy some of the cars they have done up. Like a lot of people I watch it to see how Ed carries out the work, not really to see how much they sell the car on for. When they did the Saab 93 convertible, I happened to own a similar car and found it very useful. The one they really made a mess of was the Capri. Shocking really. .
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    Jimmy ConnorsJimmy Connors Posts: 117,895
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    Nice to see some more posts on the current series. :)


    allafix wrote: »
    They chose the Messershmitt because it's an iconic classic. Obviously not as safe as a modern car, but probably better than a quad bike or scooter. In the UK they were taxed and regulated as motorbikes, and that's the comparison you should make. The reason they get the high amounts is supply and demand.

    Always been one of my favourite cars, so I enjoyed the episode. Someone had one near where I lived as a kid. As a keen aircraft enthusiast I knew all about Messershmitt 109s. I had no idea before then that Messershmitt had made cars let alone one that looked like a 109 fighter cockpit. Shame they are so pricey now as I'd love to own one.

    I thought the programme was honest in showing Edd mess up the original dome.

    I never realised they were taxed and regulated as motorbikes in the UK. That does change my view on the Messershmitt somewhat. Still far better suited to shows than the open road for me though. I wouldn't have the bottle to take one out on the road in modern traffic. :o
    kegsie wrote: »
    I thought it was ok. I suppose they can only really show Edd replacing brake shoes or suspension bushes so many times so tried something different.

    One thing though those trafficators looked awful with the LEDs in. Like cheap Christmas decorations

    Yes, I can see what you mean about doing something different. Agree about the trafficators too. They looked horrible.


    Did enjoy the Corrado VR6 episode. Really impressed with how Edd fixed that sunroof. It looked VERY awkward. You can now see why so many are just left alone and not repaired.
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    best boybest boy Posts: 836
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    kegsie wrote: »
    I thought it was ok. I suppose they can only really show Edd replacing brake shoes or suspension bushes so many times so tried something different.

    Like 'a golf ball of filler to a pea of hardener'? :D
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    Doghouse RileyDoghouse Riley Posts: 32,491
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    allafix wrote: »
    Firstly the free labour. This show is meant to represent home enthusiast classic rebuild projects. Edd China tries to do as much as possible in terms of what a home enthusiast could attempt. You don't price your own labour in such projects. Clearly it's not meant to be Edd and Mike operating a real business, nor does it ever pretend to be. Watch 'Fast and Furious' for something like that.

    The spares prices? Always seem reasonable to me, especially when they are bought from a dealer or factory. Parts picked up from a scrapper, as they often show, would be much cheaper. So much depends on rarity and quality.

    It's an entertainment show not a documentary. Calling it fiction is hardly fair. Much of it is clearly set up though. The car purchase for example. They wouldn't set off with a camera crew unless they new they were going to buy the car. The price is probably agreed before filming too. Some trades may not even be genuine. A few episodes ago the original owner supposedly bought his car back after the rebuild. That didn't ring true at all. I assume it was all agreed in advance. He got his car upgraded, WD got a film out of it. But it doesn't really matter as it's really all about the car. The rest is just a setting.

    I watch it mainly because of an interest in the engineering aspects. I don't care about the "dealer" side of it and usually FF through Mike's car trader chat.

    Much as I agree with most of your points, I can't on "doing as much as possible that a home enthusiast could attempt."
    Ed has "every workshop tool known to man." Those of us have attempted car DIY stuff in the past would have loved to have access to all that equipment. From my own experience, I got by on not much more than a pair of car ramps, spanners, a socket set and a torque wrench. with those facilities, much becomes a bit of a pig.
    I once changed a couple of valves on a DOC 2ltr Alfa Romeo, "I think I've still got the scars."

    Mind you not much changes, I can remember a guide in "Car Mechanics" decades ago some job or other involved removing something it might have been a wheel bearing and the guide said "On ours, removal was quite easy as it was only a push-fit." On mine a 2lb lump hammer wouldn't shift it.

    No problem ever defeats Ed.

    I wish Mike would give over on how good a "Wheeler Dealer" he is, 'cos he's not. But maybe the ethos of the programme is not to be seen making a realistic return on the cars he buys.
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    Prince MonaluluPrince Monalulu Posts: 35,900
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    allafix wrote: »
    Firstly the free labour. This show is meant to represent home enthusiast classic rebuild projects. Edd China tries to do as much as possible in terms of what a home enthusiast could attempt. You don't price your own labour in such projects. Clearly it's not meant to be Edd and Mike operating a real business, nor does it ever pretend to be. Watch 'Fast and Furious' for something like that.

    The spares prices? Always seem reasonable to me, especially when they are bought from a dealer or factory. Parts picked up from a scrapper, as they often show, would be much cheaper. So much depends on rarity and quality.

    It's an entertainment show not a documentary. Calling it fiction is hardly fair. Much of it is clearly set up though. The car purchase for example. They wouldn't set off with a camera crew unless they new they were going to buy the car. The price is probably agreed before filming too. Some trades may not even be genuine. A few episodes ago the original owner supposedly bought his car back after the rebuild. That didn't ring true at all. I assume it was all agreed in advance. He got his car upgraded, WD got a film out of it. But it doesn't really matter as it's really all about the car. The rest is just a setting.

    I watch it mainly because of an interest in the engineering aspects. I don't care about the "dealer" side of it and usually FF through Mike's car trader chat.

    The enthusiast thing has been explained to this FM before, it's a discussion that was had 10 years ago or whenever the show started.
    Some people just keep banging on about it as if they've spotted the flaw the rest of us haven't noticed.
    As you say it's just a premise to hang the show off.

    It's also been pointed out that you see new parts on the cars that don't get a mention at all, new discs, brakes, alternators, etc.
    IIRC they spent absolute bundles on their Maser, (not that I've seen the episode), took it to various Maser specialists to fix various electronics related problems, that didn't make the final cut.

    I've let a set of alloys go for a fiver, they cost me that to get them cleaned up at the hand car wash.
    I don't bother selling alloys off old cars now, the whole car goes and I just forget trying to winkle every pound back out of it.
    The bloke I sell them to, never asks for the locking wheel nut, so I suspect he doesn't bother selling them for scrap separately.
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    allafixallafix Posts: 20,690
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    Much as I agree with most of your points, I can't on "doing as much as possible that a home enthusiast could attempt."
    Ed has "every workshop tool known to man." Those of us have attempted car DIY stuff in the past would have loved to have access to all that equipment. From my own experience, I got by on not much more than a pair of car ramps, spanners, a socket set and a torque wrench. with those facilities, much becomes a bit of a pig.
    I once changed a couple of valves on a DOC 2ltr Alfa Romeo, "I think I've still got the scars."

    Mind you not much changes, I can remember a guide in "Car Mechanics" decades ago some job or other involved removing something it might have been a wheel bearing and the guide said "On ours, removal was quite easy as it was only a push-fit." On mine a 2lb lump hammer wouldn't shift it.

    No problem ever defeats Ed.

    I wish Mike would give over on how good a "Wheeler Dealer" he is, 'cos he's not. But maybe the ethos of the programme is not to be seen making a realistic return on the cars he buys.
    Yes he has the best equipped workshop imaginable, he's also a very talented engineer, but even he has his limits. The point is he gives recommendations about what can be attempted by the enthusiast and what's best left to the experts. This week's show (VW Corrado) was no exception. One of the better recent episodes, I thought, some interesting fixes.

    Mike's dealing seems mainly pre-arranged to me. No doubt he can do the bargaining and has a good eye for a trade, but his act on TV is a bit wearing. I FF through all that guff. Wheeler Dealers is definitely a programme to be watched on a PVR. I couldn't sit through it as broadcast with all the recaps, previews and long ad breaks.

    Last time I successfully did DIY car maintenance was bleeding the brakes of my Hillman Minx, circa 1976. I was amazed how well the E-Z bleed kit worked. Full of confidence, my next attempt resulted in a very expensive (for a student) visit to the garage to drill out and tap some bolts I sheared by overtightening a leaky thermostat housing. The original job should have just been the price of a new gasket. From then on I decided to cut my losses and give up the DIY stuff.
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    Trappedin80'sTrappedin80's Posts: 6,270
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    Just watched the BMW 2002 episode and very much enjoyed it.

    I also watched the boat/car episode last night.

    I've always liked the lack of fake jeopardy on this show compared to other car fix-up shows.

    I've still got the VW Corrado episode ready to watch later.
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    Doghouse RileyDoghouse Riley Posts: 32,491
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    allafix wrote: »
    Yes he has the best equipped workshop imaginable, he's also a very talented engineer, but even he has his limits. The point is he gives recommendations about what can be attempted by the enthusiast and what's best left to the experts. This week's show (VW Corrado) was no exception. One of the better recent episodes, I thought, some interesting fixes.

    Mike's dealing seems mainly pre-arranged to me. No doubt he can do the bargaining and has a good eye for a trade, but his act on TV is a bit wearing. I FF through all that guff. Wheeler Dealers is definitely a programme to be watched on a PVR. I couldn't sit through it as broadcast with all the recaps, previews and long ad breaks.

    Last time I successfully did DIY car maintenance was bleeding the brakes of my Hillman Minx, circa 1976. I was amazed how well the E-Z bleed kit worked. Full of confidence, my next attempt resulted in a very expensive (for a student) visit to the garage to drill out and tap some bolts I sheared by overtightening a leaky thermostat housing. The original job should have just been the price of a new gasket. From then on I decided to cut my losses and give up the DIY stuff.

    That brings back memories.

    We had an ancient Austin A35 when we were first married, which cost me £35, a huge sum for me in the mid sixties. I bought a brake re-line kit the cheapest way possible, where you had to hammer the rivets through the linings to attach them to the shoes. But I managed it. I also successfully de-coked the head with just a set of box spanners and a chisel. Since changing the two valves on my old Alfa Giulietta in the mid eighties, (re-shimming it was a pain) I've never attempted anything more than changing the oil, oil filter, air filter. etc., apart from diagnosing and replacing a faulty oil pressure sender unit, but nothing for 20 years.
    Now the main agents collect my car, (the last three being Hondas) service it, check it out for anything that needs doing, (usually nothing) do it, clean it and bring it back.

    As you say the programme is only worth recording on my HDR and watching just the technical bits.
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    Jimmy ConnorsJimmy Connors Posts: 117,895
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    Anybody watching the new series?

    Enjoyed the Volvo PV544 last night.

    Always interesting to see Edd retro fit air-conditioning to an old car. The bloke in the shop said it would cost £1000 all in - yet at the end Mike said it was closer to £2k. Maybe they purchased that crimping tool after all. :confused:

    Also, noticeable they're introducing more humour (banter) between the two of them. Especially from Mr China, who is usually quite straight laced. :)
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    allafixallafix Posts: 20,690
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    Anybody watching the new series?

    Enjoyed the Volvo PV544 last night.

    Always interesting to see Edd retro fit air-conditioning to an old car. The bloke in the shop said it would cost £1000 all in - yet at the end Mike said it was closer to £2k. Maybe they purchased that crimping tool after all. :confused:

    Also, noticeable they're introducing more humour (banter) between the two of them. Especially from Mr China, who is usually quite straight laced. :)
    Yes, I'm still watching it, though not the Volvo episode yet. They've shaken up the format a bit this series which caught me out as I usually skip through the first ten minutes. They've cut drive back and the car arriving at the shop with Edd complaining about what he's been asked to do. I wasn't expecting it to go straight from the buying handshake to a calm discussion in the workshop.

    To be honest I prefer the sharper and wittier Fast 'n Loud these days but I'll keep watching this for now. The bits with Edd refurbishing old systems are still interesting. I'd prefer it if there was more of him and less of the ever expanding Mike Brewer's wheeling and dealing.
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    barbelerbarbeler Posts: 23,827
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    I'm still waiting for them to do up an Allegro Equipe or 1750 Sport.
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    Jimmy ConnorsJimmy Connors Posts: 117,895
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    allafix wrote: »
    Yes, I'm still watching it, though not the Volvo episode yet. They've shaken up the format a bit this series which caught me out as I usually skip through the first ten minutes. They've cut drive back and the car arriving at the shop with Edd complaining about what he's been asked to do. I wasn't expecting it to go straight from the buying handshake to a calm discussion in the workshop.

    To be honest I prefer the sharper and wittier Fast 'n Loud these days but I'll keep watching this for now. The bits with Edd refurbishing old systems are still interesting. I'd prefer it if there was more of him and less of the ever expanding Mike Brewer's wheeling and dealing.

    Yes, you're right about the drive back and the arrival being dropped as well.

    Hope I have not spoilt it for you with my big gob. :blush: I forget some people watch it later. :blush:
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    tinmantinman Posts: 3,938
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    barbeler wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for them to do up an Allegro Equipe or 1750 Sport.


    My first car.
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    kegsiekegsie Posts: 2,801
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    Anybody watching the new series?

    Enjoyed the Volvo PV544 last night.

    Always interesting to see Edd retro fit air-conditioning to an old car. The bloke in the shop said it would cost £1000 all in - yet at the end Mike said it was closer to £2k. Maybe they purchased that crimping tool after all. :confused:

    Also, noticeable they're introducing more humour (banter) between the two of them. Especially from Mr China, who is usually quite straight laced. :)

    Did anyone else suspect that Edd couldn't actually fit in the passenger seat after the air con was fitted? It did seem to take up quite a lot of the legroom.
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    stackmanstackman Posts: 710
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    I enjoy the UK based episodes more than the US ones as the cars and situations seem more relevant. I understand that Mike is a massive US car fan though.

    I notice that in this latest series they mention in the tot-up at the end how many man-hours of labour was involved. That should answer the main criticism of the format.
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    skinjskinj Posts: 3,383
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    Anybody watching the new series?

    Enjoyed the Volvo PV544 last night.

    Always interesting to see Edd retro fit air-conditioning to an old car. The bloke in the shop said it would cost £1000 all in - yet at the end Mike said it was closer to £2k. Maybe they purchased that crimping tool after all. :confused:

    Also, noticeable they're introducing more humour (banter) between the two of them. Especially from Mr China, who is usually quite straight laced. :)

    Was a bit confused about the Volvo myself. Mike bought the car and I don't think there was any mention of it being in storage for and age, or the carbs not being set up properly. Mike got there, had a look, took a spin, came back and the owner joked about it being hard to find people to do repairs on it as it is rare in the US.
    Back at the workshop, the biggest job seemed to be to get the wrongly set-up carbs sorted yet Mike's test drive seemed to be wonderful and said how well the engine pulled.
    They also had a big discussion about the interior, saying the door cards needed a good cleaning, carpet needed replacing and the dash needed to be tarted up yet that was never mentioned again. They also mentioned that the chrome needed tarting up but again this was never mentioned again.

    This new series (and the last one tbf) have taken a route that personally I like far less than the older shows. The inclusions of the "coming up" and the "Edd has already..." filler crap that goes in at the start and end of each part is a very American and overuse ploy used to simply pad out a show. In all reality each episode should be only 30 minutes long. We don't need to know what is coming up because what is coming up is what we are watching show for in the first place & if you need to be told what you've missed already, tough, wait for the end of show round up when they'll tell us all again what was done (maybe, but excluding things that they forgot to mention again!)
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    tinmantinman Posts: 3,938
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    Totally agree Skinj
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    Jimmy ConnorsJimmy Connors Posts: 117,895
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    kegsie wrote: »
    Did anyone else suspect that Edd couldn't actually fit in the passenger seat after the air con was fitted? It did seem to take up quite a lot of the legroom.

    Yes, I did wonder as to why Edd sat in the back. :D
    skinj wrote: »
    Was a bit confused about the Volvo myself. Mike bought the car and I don't think there was any mention of it being in storage for and age, or the carbs not being set up properly. Mike got there, had a look, took a spin, came back and the owner joked about it being hard to find people to do repairs on it as it is rare in the US.
    Back at the workshop, the biggest job seemed to be to get the wrongly set-up carbs sorted yet Mike's test drive seemed to be wonderful and said how well the engine pulled.
    They also had a big discussion about the interior, saying the door cards needed a good cleaning, carpet needed replacing and the dash needed to be tarted up yet that was never mentioned again. They also mentioned that the chrome needed tarting up but again this was never mentioned again.

    This new series (and the last one tbf) have taken a route that personally I like far less than the older shows. The inclusions of the "coming up" and the "Edd has already..." filler crap that goes in at the start and end of each part is a very American and overuse ploy used to simply pad out a show. In all reality each episode should be only 30 minutes long. We don't need to know what is coming up because what is coming up is what we are watching show for in the first place & if you need to be told what you've missed already, tough, wait for the end of show round up when they'll tell us all again what was done (maybe, but excluding things that they forgot to mention again!)

    I thought I just missed the part when the old guy (must have) mentioned the Volvo had been in storage. But now you have confirmed my initial thoughts that is was not mentioned at all. Ditto the carburettors. Actually (as you say) there were quite a few things that Mike mentioned on the initial inspection that were never followed up.
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    able1able1 Posts: 1,442
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    kegsie wrote: »
    Did anyone else suspect that Edd couldn't actually fit in the passenger seat after the air con was fitted? It did seem to take up quite a lot of the legroom.

    Edd and Mike Brewer fitted ok when they squeezed into the Isetta a few years back.
    Incredible when you realise Edd is 6' 7''.

    Probably one of the best episodes ever and the best two minutes here;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSitjRmQJyc
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    Doghouse RileyDoghouse Riley Posts: 32,491
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    able1 wrote: »
    Edd and Mike Brewer fitted ok when they squeezed into the Isetta a few years back.
    Incredible when you realise Edd is 6' 7''.

    Probably one of the best episodes ever and the best two minutes here;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSitjRmQJyc

    Forty years ago some friends had an Isetta, it was pretty beat up, but both he and his wife who were quite big and their two small kids managed to get in it.

    We went out for the day once following him in convoy. He gave directions/hand signals out through the roof.
    It was a lot of fun.
    Parking was easy, you backed it in to a small space then lifted the front and swung it around.
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    able1able1 Posts: 1,442
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    Forty years ago some friends had an Isetta, it was pretty beat up, but both he and his wife who were quite big and their two small kids managed to get in it.

    We went out for the day once following him in convoy. He gave directions/hand signals out through the roof.
    It was a lot of fun.
    Parking was easy, you backed it in to a small space then lifted the front and swung it around.

    Yes, different times. 200 cc and 9hp you certainly wouldn't want to be in a smash in one.
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