Things have changed. When jobs were ten a penny and the company had to work to get the right employees, they went out of their way to encourage the right applicant by paying expenses and being flexible about interview times and so on. Now it's all changed, the employer has the upper hand and the expenses have mostly gone as has the courtesy. I've tried asking for different interview times and the answer was a big fat no.
Things have changed. When jobs were ten a penny and the company had to work to get the right employees, they went out of their way to encourage the right applicant by paying expenses and being flexible about interview times and so on. Now it's all changed, the employer has the upper hand and the expenses have mostly gone as has the courtesy. I've tried asking for different interview times and the answer was a big fat no.
I forgot I did this too, no dice either. That would mean them going to the immense effort of moving your name to another line. I even felt like I was a massive inconvenience just asking.
They know they have people by the short and curlies.
Oh no, it wasn't £140 for the night! I had to get buses and taxis when I was down there both times as it was hard to get to the place and the other one was so late in the day I had to stay over then also but I chose to do that.
It's £230 simply because that's how far I had to travel. I can't really change the price of train travel! I had looked at a bus trip but it would have taken a day to get there.
It's not really about the money anyway (I would not have asked for the full refund! I had quite a nice trip out all in all...) I am just questioning the professional courtesy. I had to wait a month to hear by an email that contained several grammatical errors and no feedback which I had asked several times for.
£230 for the train?!! How bleedin far is it? Couldn't you have even got a flight for less than that?
Blimey, some of you are being a bit harsh on the OP who asked a reasonable question!
OP - it's up to you to check whether travel expenses are reimbursed and if not, make the decision as to whether the pay off is worth it. If they did not agree to pay, this is entirely fair and you need to suck it up.
BUT, I do agree that the lack of feedback is shoddy, as is chasing them up. There are so many job applicants now that it is impossible sometimes for companies to get back to everyone individually, hence why so many applications now state "If you do not hear from us with XXXX, please assume your application was unsuccessful on this occasion". However, IF you are called for interview then they should really be providing you with feedback, IF you ask for it. The fact that they didn't do this is very poor, as is the fact you had to chase it up.
I've had interviews and not been sent an outcome before and this is discourteous and in my view, implies that the company would not be great to work for.
I recently attended two interviews for a graduate student assistant role with Capita which is a very large company.
I didn't get it by the way, that's not relevant!
They said they do not help with travel costs despite them asking me to two interviews that cost £230 a train trip, and one involved me staying overnight as they wanted me so early so the total cost of the interviews was about £600.
Added to that in order to find out whether I had got the job I had to email them three times (I waited a good courtesy week in between asking each time), and in the end it took 28 days to find out.
In the end I got no feedback whatsoever despite asking for some. All they said was someone was better but I had "good" feedback.
I don't like to make a big deal but it seems unprofessional to treat a newly qualified graduate so badly. I know it's the norm, but is it fair?
Unless a candidates wishes to be charitable and philanthropic, it is down to the organisation to reimburse candidates for any costs acrued in attending any Job Interview .... after all, that is what the recruitment budget is for.
However, if an interview is offered, either by the organisation or via an agency, then it is worth securing written confirmation from the outset that All Travelling Expenses will be reimbursed.
From my own experience, I was offered an agency with an employer in London, and I made it cleat to the agency that my commitment would be contingent on the employer reimbursing travelling expenses. They said that they would liaise with the employer, and get back to me. They didn't.
The day before the interview, I received a call from the agency clerk asking me whether I still intended to attend - and I said us, contingent on the employer reimbursing all travelling expenses. They got back to me later that evening, saying that the employer wouldn't.
I subsequently wrote to the employer, offering an apology for being unable to attend, and explained the situation regarding expenses. The employer got back to me saying that they normally reimburse travelling expenses, but in this case, the agency clerk had not even raised the matter with them.
Irrespective of whether an interview is local or not so, it is not down to the candidate to absorb Recruitment Expenses, even travelling expenses.
A Recruitment budget? What's that? In this day and age when we drive consultants down to a fixed fee of £3k regardless of salary of the role we are wanting to fill? Don't make me laugh - unless you are in a global it is virtually unheard of.
Companies have cut back to the bone, almost the marrow, to save costs. If you want the job, you attend the first interview and foot the bill to get there. Sometimes, companies offer travel expenses for the second interview, but rarely.
However, the total unprofessionalism the OP has experienced is breathtaking, but it is huge organisation and the HR function can rather lose sight of why they are there and what they are supposed to be doing. 'Human remains' indeed. Timely decision and feedback to candidates who have attended a second interview is essential.
I wouldn't like to comment on the organisation mentioned but .... I also wouldn't want to work with Group 4 under whatever name they rebrand following the Olympic debacle.
Irrespective of whether an interview is local or not so, it is not down to the candidate to absorb Recruitment Expenses, even travelling expenses.
I'm not sure if I agree with that or not but the key is (and that you have done and the OP hasn't) NEVER ASSUME. Especially when, in the OP's case, the expenses involved are so exceptional. This is an entry level job. You might turn up for an interview for ASDA in the next town holding your bus receipt for a fiver and have some hope of getting it reimbursed but it's not the end of the world if they don't pay up. You wouldn't bowl up to an interview for an ASDA at the other end of the country clutching a 600 quid expenses bill and expect them to pay up without enquiring first, would you ?
People have mentioned, in this thread, the case of someone coming from Germany, and how paying for that would be 'too much', though it would probably be less than the OP has racked up in this case.
I'm not sure if I agree with that or not but the key is (and that you have done and the OP hasn't) NEVER ASSUME. Especially when, in the OP's case, the expenses involved are so exceptional. This is an entry level job. You might turn up for an interview for ASDA in the next town holding your bus receipt for a fiver and have some hope of getting it reimbursed but it's not the end of the world if they don't pay up. You wouldn't bowl up to an interview for an ASDA at the other end of the country clutching a 600 quid expenses bill and expect them to pay up without enquiring first, would you ?
People have mentioned, in this thread, the case of someone coming from Germany, and how paying for that would be 'too much', though it would probably be less than the OP has racked up in this case.
I agree with everything that you say. For an entry level job, "reasonable expenses" may be refunded, by which is meant the cheapest form of travel and accommodation, but it's always best to make sure. If one is fortunate enough to be head-hunted, then the sky's the limit - if the company wants you enough, they'll pay any money. Such instances are pretty rare, though.
I'm not convinced the organisation has been unprofessional. No organisation has to pay travel expenses and most would not expect anyone to spend £600 on expenses, if you decide to pay it you can't complain.
Not hearing in a month is not untypical where they may not have given you one role but might be considering you for another.
Unless a candidates wishes to be charitable and philanthropic, it is down to the organisation to reimburse candidates for any costs acrued in attending any Job Interview .... after all, that is what the recruitment budget is for.
However, if an interview is offered, either by the organisation or via an agency, then it is worth securing written confirmation from the outset that All Travelling Expenses will be reimbursed.
From my own experience, I was offered an agency with an employer in London, and I made it cleat to the agency that my commitment would be contingent on the employer reimbursing travelling expenses. They said that they would liaise with the employer, and get back to me. They didn't.
The day before the interview, I received a call from the agency clerk asking me whether I still intended to attend - and I said us, contingent on the employer reimbursing all travelling expenses. They got back to me later that evening, saying that the employer wouldn't.
I subsequently wrote to the employer, offering an apology for being unable to attend, and explained the situation regarding expenses. The employer got back to me saying that they normally reimburse travelling expenses, but in this case, the agency clerk had not even raised the matter with them.
Irrespective of whether an interview is local or not so, it is not down to the candidate to absorb Recruitment Expenses, even travelling expenses.
I've said before that I didnt expect them to pay the 600 by the way! I was just telling you guys that I was considerably put out.
How I got there was not relevant but the fact that the second interview was because one of them fancied being involved but was off sunning himself somewhere annoys me.
A £5 bus fare would have been more than fine too, just to show willing.
It is a massive company, one of the biggest inthe uk, with a hr department, the website is full of glorious claims and 'work for us' graduate offers an there is even a page on fun stuff and perks.
I know I am not an employee but I am quite curious as to why it does not extend to candidates they invite for multiple interviews.
You're getting way too hung up on this glowbot - you've been going on for days now. We've all experienced shoddy treatment by potential employees at some point in our lives - I once attended a 'group' interview for a sales role in London - there were about 50 other people there. The managers began by trying to put people off the job, and telling them to get out if they didn't like the sound of it. When nobody would leave, he began to say that there are too many people here anyways, and some will need to go - it began to get very awkward as he started singling out candidates in front of everybody, and making them plea as to why they wanted the job, and why they think they deserved to be there. People started to leave. They then shoved a 3 page script in front of you, full of jargon and crap, and gave you a telephone and demanded that you make some calls. The calls were not real, and the clients were merely other internal staff on the line, who would instantly give feedback to the interviewers. The people who finished their calls first were told to leave, and that they'd 'be in touch' - others were picked off one by one and told to go home, and that they'd 'be in touch' - (I was one of them)
I personally found the whole experience quite demeaning, and humiliating - I sent an email of complaint to the person who had booked me in for the interview, and spent days in frustration over this - it didn't get me anywhere.
Your treatment doesn't sound anywhere near as awful as the above, so just move on and apply for more roles, with nicer companies.
You're getting way too hung up on this glowbot - you've been going on for days now. We've all experienced shoddy treatment by potential employees at some point in our lives - I once attended a 'group' interview for a sales role in London - there were about 50 other people there. The managers began by trying to put people off the job, and telling them to get out if they didn't like the sound of it. When nobody would leave, he began to say that there are too many people here anyways, and some will need to go - it began to get very awkward as he started singling out candidates in front of everybody, and making them plea as to why they wanted the job, and why they think they deserved to be there. People started to leave. They then shoved a 3 page script in front of you, full of jargon and crap, and gave you a telephone and demanded that you make some calls. The calls were not real, and the clients were merely other internal staff on the line, who would instantly give feedback to the interviewers. The people who finished their calls first were told to leave, and that they'd 'be in touch' - others were picked off one by one and told to go home, and that they'd 'be in touch' - (I was one of them)
I personally found the whole experience quite demeaning, and humiliating - I sent an email of complaint to the person who had booked me in for the interview, and spent days in frustration over this - it didn't get me anywhere.
Your treatment doesn't sound anywhere near as awful as the above, so just move on and apply for more roles, with nicer companies.
I posted it yesterday? I'm not hung up I was just chatting.
All rasonable travel costs should be reimbursed unless they tell you in advance they won't be. Would you want to work for a company that is that tight though?
the only jobs we have ever paid transport costs for when i worked in recruitment were at a directors level and overnight accomodation as the interview process was pretty much two full days and at such a high level we expected to entertain candidates from up and down the country, it is certainly not the norm to pay transport to interview costs
I've said before that I didnt expect them to pay the 600 by the way! I was just telling you guys that I was considerably put out.
How I got there was not relevant but the fact that the second interview was because one of them fancied being involved but was off sunning himself somewhere annoys me.
A £5 bus fare would have been more than fine too, just to show willing.
It is a massive company, one of the biggest inthe uk, with a hr department, the website is full of glorious claims and 'work for us' graduate offers an there is even a page on fun stuff and perks.
I know I am not an employee but I am quite curious as to why it does not extend to candidates they invite for multiple interviews.
was that the reason given? normally at a second interview stage you get more important people on the panel or in addition to the original panel to weed people out further and find the ideal candidate
Comments
I forgot I did this too, no dice either. That would mean them going to the immense effort of moving your name to another line. I even felt like I was a massive inconvenience just asking.
They know they have people by the short and curlies.
£230 for the train?!! How bleedin far is it?
OP - it's up to you to check whether travel expenses are reimbursed and if not, make the decision as to whether the pay off is worth it. If they did not agree to pay, this is entirely fair and you need to suck it up.
BUT, I do agree that the lack of feedback is shoddy, as is chasing them up. There are so many job applicants now that it is impossible sometimes for companies to get back to everyone individually, hence why so many applications now state "If you do not hear from us with XXXX, please assume your application was unsuccessful on this occasion". However, IF you are called for interview then they should really be providing you with feedback, IF you ask for it. The fact that they didn't do this is very poor, as is the fact you had to chase it up.
I've had interviews and not been sent an outcome before and this is discourteous and in my view, implies that the company would not be great to work for.
However, if an interview is offered, either by the organisation or via an agency, then it is worth securing written confirmation from the outset that All Travelling Expenses will be reimbursed.
From my own experience, I was offered an agency with an employer in London, and I made it cleat to the agency that my commitment would be contingent on the employer reimbursing travelling expenses. They said that they would liaise with the employer, and get back to me. They didn't.
The day before the interview, I received a call from the agency clerk asking me whether I still intended to attend - and I said us, contingent on the employer reimbursing all travelling expenses. They got back to me later that evening, saying that the employer wouldn't.
I subsequently wrote to the employer, offering an apology for being unable to attend, and explained the situation regarding expenses. The employer got back to me saying that they normally reimburse travelling expenses, but in this case, the agency clerk had not even raised the matter with them.
Irrespective of whether an interview is local or not so, it is not down to the candidate to absorb Recruitment Expenses, even travelling expenses.
Companies have cut back to the bone, almost the marrow, to save costs. If you want the job, you attend the first interview and foot the bill to get there. Sometimes, companies offer travel expenses for the second interview, but rarely.
However, the total unprofessionalism the OP has experienced is breathtaking, but it is huge organisation and the HR function can rather lose sight of why they are there and what they are supposed to be doing. 'Human remains' indeed. Timely decision and feedback to candidates who have attended a second interview is essential.
I wouldn't like to comment on the organisation mentioned but .... I also wouldn't want to work with Group 4 under whatever name they rebrand following the Olympic debacle.
I'm not sure if I agree with that or not but the key is (and that you have done and the OP hasn't) NEVER ASSUME. Especially when, in the OP's case, the expenses involved are so exceptional. This is an entry level job. You might turn up for an interview for ASDA in the next town holding your bus receipt for a fiver and have some hope of getting it reimbursed but it's not the end of the world if they don't pay up. You wouldn't bowl up to an interview for an ASDA at the other end of the country clutching a 600 quid expenses bill and expect them to pay up without enquiring first, would you ?
People have mentioned, in this thread, the case of someone coming from Germany, and how paying for that would be 'too much', though it would probably be less than the OP has racked up in this case.
I agree with everything that you say. For an entry level job, "reasonable expenses" may be refunded, by which is meant the cheapest form of travel and accommodation, but it's always best to make sure. If one is fortunate enough to be head-hunted, then the sky's the limit - if the company wants you enough, they'll pay any money. Such instances are pretty rare, though.
Not hearing in a month is not untypical where they may not have given you one role but might be considering you for another.
I'm so glad you did this.
How I got there was not relevant but the fact that the second interview was because one of them fancied being involved but was off sunning himself somewhere annoys me.
A £5 bus fare would have been more than fine too, just to show willing.
It is a massive company, one of the biggest inthe uk, with a hr department, the website is full of glorious claims and 'work for us' graduate offers an there is even a page on fun stuff and perks.
I know I am not an employee but I am quite curious as to why it does not extend to candidates they invite for multiple interviews.
I personally found the whole experience quite demeaning, and humiliating - I sent an email of complaint to the person who had booked me in for the interview, and spent days in frustration over this - it didn't get me anywhere.
Your treatment doesn't sound anywhere near as awful as the above, so just move on and apply for more roles, with nicer companies.
the only jobs we have ever paid transport costs for when i worked in recruitment were at a directors level and overnight accomodation as the interview process was pretty much two full days and at such a high level we expected to entertain candidates from up and down the country, it is certainly not the norm to pay transport to interview costs
was that the reason given? normally at a second interview stage you get more important people on the panel or in addition to the original panel to weed people out further and find the ideal candidate