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The SNP is the only party that defends social democratic values

Reiver97Reiver97 Posts: 2,491
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Good piece from Iain Macwhirter, political correspondent for the Sunday Herald and BBC Scotland on Salmonds speech to the SNP Conference.
The left must give him credit: the SNP is the only party that defends social democratic values

You can say what you like about Alex Salmond, and a lot of people do: that he's a demagogue, troublemaker, narrow nationalist, even "tartan Tory". The SNP is regarded with deep suspicion by many on the left, as if there's a BNP in there just waiting to get out. But what no one seems to give Salmond credit for is leading the only party in the UK that is committed to defending explicitly social democratic values in government, removing Trident nuclear weapons, rejecting nuclear power in favour of renewable energy, blocking identity cards and establishing an open border policy for immigration.

In his conference speech in Inverness Salmond received a standing ovation for saying that one Trident submarine in the Clyde is one too many. When did we last hear any UK party leader say that? The metropolitan left seems to have decided that there is nothing anyone can do about the presence of weapons of mass destruction in the UK – as if it is just a fact of political life. We have a Labour government that is committed to spending around £100bn on a weapons system that is a moral abomination, a military anachronism and a dangerous health hazard. Someone has to call a halt to this madness.

Continues HERE

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    Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    Most of the things he's for seem to be more communist than socialist - though in reality he's an opportunist rather than someone who holds deep beliefs on anything except the infallibility of Salmond

    Wonder how the voters would react to open borders to immigrants - and how quickly Salmond would change his mind
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    Reiver97Reiver97 Posts: 2,491
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Most of the things he's for seem to be more communist than socialist - though in reality he's an opportunist rather than someone who holds deep beliefs on anything except the infallibility of Salmond

    Wonder how the voters would react to open borders to immigrants - and how quickly Salmond would change his mind

    Putting side the ridiculous suggestion that the SNP (and presumably the Scottish Goverment?) is "Communist"(!), the SNP's long-standing policy on immigration (hardly 'open door', but still very much more progessive, flexible and understanding of Scotland needs than any other party), is widely known and the SNP keeps on winning elections.

    They are the government here after all. And a popular one at that.

    You shouldn't judge the Scottish electorate or political environment by the xenophbic, right-wing agenda that is currently dominating English politics.

    Right wing politics represent the political fringe in Scotland.
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    Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Most of the things he's for seem to be more communist than socialist - though in reality he's an opportunist rather than someone who holds deep beliefs on anything except the infallibility of Salmond

    Wonder how the voters would react to open borders to immigrants - and how quickly Salmond would change his mind


    Erm Scotland has had open border immigration for decades mainly in the form of English people, especially in North East and Highlands. Just about everyone you speak to in Inverness is English.

    If you live in Aberdeen there is an International High School for the yanks that came to live here in the 1970s and 80s.

    The Scots actually understand that our indigenous (to what extent it exists) population is shrinking and to ensure our prosperity in the future people need to be encouraged to live here.

    If you understand Scottish history in even its vaguest form you'd know its characterised by EMMIGRATION to new lands in search of a better life. Its therefore not that hard for us to understand that people might want to come back this way for the same reason.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,718
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    Reiver97 wrote: »
    You shouldn't judge the Scottish electorate or political environment by the xenophbic, right-wing agenda that is currently dominating English politics.

    Rubbish, that simply isn't true
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    Reiver97Reiver97 Posts: 2,491
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    Jack1 wrote: »
    Rubbish, that simply isn't true

    So immigration and slashing social welfare arent the dominant issues in English politics right now? Sounds pretty right wing and xenophobic to me.
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    ALANMALANM Posts: 2,617
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Most of the things he's for seem to be more communist than socialist - though in reality he's an opportunist rather than someone who holds deep beliefs on anything except the infallibility of Salmond

    The true political opportunists in Scotland can easily be recognised - they spout tory policies, claim every penny they can on expenses and wear red rosettes:)
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,718
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    Reiver97 wrote: »
    So immigration and slashing social welfare arent the dominant issues in English politics right now? Sounds pretty right wing and xenophobic to me.

    I didn't say it wasn't more right wing than Scotland. Opposing unlimited immigration certainly isn't xenophobic though.
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    Reiver97Reiver97 Posts: 2,491
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    Jack1 wrote: »
    I didn't say it wasn't more right wing than Scotland. Opposing unlimited immigration certainly isn't xenophobic though.

    Of course it is xenophobic. By definition. It is a fear that foreigners coming in from outside are causing harm to your economy and/or society.

    And the SNP does not support 'unlimited immigration'. It supports a system that takes account of Scotlands needs and the abilities of those wanting to come here.

    As pointed out above, the only 'unlimited immigration' to Scotland is from England.
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    Reiver97Reiver97 Posts: 2,491
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    SNP left turn as right to buy is ditched
    By Eddie Barnes
    political editor, The Scotsman

    THE SNP gave a clear signal yesterday of its intention to roll Scotland back to the left, as it closed its party conference unveiling new policies boosting the power and scope of the state.

    In her closing speech to conference in Inverness, Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon sounded the death knell of the "right-to-buy", the emblematic policy of the Thatcher revolution, which allowed council tenants to buy their homes.

    She also revealed that Stracathro hospital, which the previous Labour-Liberal executive had handed over to an independent operator, would now be returning to full NHS control.

    Together, the moves will further widen the gap in public service provision between Scotland and England, with ministers south of the Border opting to keep right-to-buy, and use the independent sector in health and education. Under the SNP, the private sector has already been barred from providing GP services, hospital cleaning and catering...

    ...Later in the speech, Ms Sturgeon confirmed that Stracathro hospital near Brechin would be returning to full NHS control, just four years after it was set up as a joint venture between the NHS and an independent treatment provider. The centre has been operated privately and paid for by the NHS.

    Ms Sturgeon said: "This is the only private contract of its kind in Scotland and it comes to an end on January 3rd next year. From January, it will be delivered in and by the NHS. Stracathro is coming home to the NHS."

    She added: "I am proud that this government has stopped in its tracks the Labour privatisation of the NHS."

    Full here
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    Reiver97Reiver97 Posts: 2,491
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    And now the Orange Order, the home for drunken bigots and Loyalist fanatics, backs New Labour to defend 'The Union'....

    Orange Order to take on SNP in bid to save the Union

    The Scottish Labour Party moved rapidly yesterday to distance itself from a potentially combustible political alliance after the Orange Order called for its members to back Labour in order to head off the threat of nationalism.

    A senior party source commented: “In my view keeping them at oar's length wouldn't be far enough.”

    The response came after a controversial call by Ian Wilson, Grand Master of the Orange Order, for his members to vote Labour at the next general election in areas where they can defeat the Scottish National Party.

    Mr Wilson, who has been attempting to reposition the Orange Order as a moderate force in public life, said in a newspaper interview: “There is no question in my mind that the biggest problem facing Scotland at the moment is the growth in Scottish nationalism.

    “And the Order - as one of Scotland's biggest unionist organisations - has got to get real about it. The reality is that the only party you can do that through in Scotland is the Labour Party.”

    FULL HERE
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,228
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    Reiver97 wrote: »
    So immigration and slashing social welfare arent the dominant issues in English politics right now? Sounds pretty right wing and xenophobic to me.
    The SNP are the best party in the UK. I wish I could vote for them in England.:cry:
    But I guess that kinda defeats the purpose.:o
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    Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    Reiver97 wrote: »
    And now the Orange Order, the home for drunken bigots and Loyalist fanatics, backs New Labour to defend 'The Union'....




    FULL HERE


    You really couldn't make this stuff up. The only thing I was ever proud of the old Labour council in Aberdeen doing was its attempt to prevent the Orange Lodge from marching in our city. Something they hadn't done in years.

    Sadly a court over ruled them but they've never been back after the 50,000 or so of my fellow citizens who turned out on the day made it quite clear that they and their bigoted central belt ilk were not welcome.
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    Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    rozafa wrote: »
    The SNP are the best party in the UK. I wish I could vote for them in England.:cry:
    But I guess that kinda defeats the purpose.:o


    Here's the beef, I'm a Scot living in England and I too wish there was an SNP style party to vote for.

    As it stands next year will be the first General Election I will abstain from because neither of the gruesome twosome are fit for office and the Lib Dems will abandon any promise made at the first whiff of a ministerial limo.
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    ALANMALANM Posts: 2,617
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    Phil 2804 wrote: »
    Here's the beef, I'm a Scot living in England and I too wish there was an SNP style party to vote for.

    The Lib Dems had an opportunity to fill the void left behind when the Labour Party lurched to the right under Blair. They blew it by continuing to occupy the ever-shrinking middle ground between the two main parties.

    The net result is that millions of voters in England are now effectively disenfranchised.
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    ayrshiremanayrshireman Posts: 9,279
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    Of course it is xenophobic. By definition. It is a fear that foreigners coming in from outside are causing harm to your economy and/or society

    Oh hogwash. It isnt xenophobic, its a genuine concern that whilst sensible immigration is fine, even necessary for a country, unfettered immigration is not, as any country, esp a small island nation like Britain, made up of three even smaller countries and a medium sized nation, has FINITE resources and cannot support huge numbers of immigration.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,245
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    The main test of the SNP's 'left wing' is to what extent they follow the 'Hollowed Out State' approach to public services and governence set by Thatcher and followed by Blair. Early signs were encouraging, such as rejection of PFI and many large infostructure projects being financed from the public purse, but then on the other hand you have the fawning over Trump's plans for Aberdeenshire and pro buisness rhetoric.

    They are - however - a breath of fresh air when compared to most parties. New Labour and the New Tories are just starting to lump into one, where policies and ideas are interchangeable. It doesn't really matter who is in power as they're all going to do the same thing anyway. Only difference would be a slight change on the margins. Is this democracy?
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    OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    The SNP are ending right-to-buy for council tenants in new properties in Scotland to address the severe shortage of social housing.

    The move has been condemned by the Tories & Labour, but welcomed by Shelter the homeless charity.
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    Phil 2804Phil 2804 Posts: 21,846
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    and governence set by Thatcher and followed by Blair. Early signs were encouraging, such as rejection of PFI and many large infostructure projects being financed from the public purse, but then on the other hand you have the fawning over Trump's plans for Aberdeenshire and pro buisness rhetoric.


    The vast majority of people in Aberdeenshire were and are in favour of the Trump project. The SNP were not fawning over Trump but they realised this was a man willing to invest £1 billion right into the very heartland of the SNP vote in Scotland.

    It was more political (killing of the Lib Dems in Gordon) thank anything.

    And what is the problem with being pro- business? The SNP have always been pro business, the entire economy of Northern Scotland is dependent on small businesses.
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    5th Horseman5th Horseman Posts: 10,859
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    The SNP have long be left-wing on social issues and right-wing on business issues, the perfect balance in my opinion, leave the private sector to get on and make the country money and use the revenue from taxes to look after the vulnerable.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,718
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    Jack1 wrote: »
    I didn't say it wasn't more right wing than Scotland. Opposing unlimited immigration certainly isn't xenophobic though.
    Reiver97 wrote: »
    Of course it is xenophobic. By definition. It is a fear that foreigners coming in from outside are causing harm to your economy and/or society.

    And the SNP does not support 'unlimited immigration'. It supports a system that takes account of Scotlands needs and the abilities of those wanting to come here.

    As pointed out above, the only 'unlimited immigration' to Scotland is from England.

    By your definition even the SNP is xenophobic.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,245
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    I would say that the intrest of Big Business will always conflict with the intrest of the common person. Small businesses are a different matter altogether.
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    Reiver97Reiver97 Posts: 2,491
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    Jack1 wrote: »
    By your definition even the SNP is xenophobic.

    And you work that out how?

    The SNP beleives immigration is necessary to reverse Scotlands declining population and bring skills and revenue into the country.
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