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What is the point of Israel attacking Gaza?


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Old 05-09-2014, 15:17
DinkyDoobie
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If you don't want to believe me, try reading this from a ZH guest. Full credit to Kirk2NCC1701
So the TLDR is that there are a subset of Jewish people who worship money and power and want to exert their influence over others.

And for the arabs are semites too point

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Judenhass
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Old 06-09-2014, 13:54
Jellied Eel
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So the TLDR is that there are a subset of Jewish people who worship money and power and want to exert their influence over others.
Yup, sadly human nature. Not something exclusive to any one religion.

And for the arabs are semites too point
Well, yes. That's an issue with labels. Arab was geographic, ie people from Arabia. That would include Jewish people and exclude Egyptians as many prefer to be North Africans. Semites are more a linguistic and cultural lable that includes Arabs, and there's no anthropological evidence to support it being exclusively Jewish. The mislabling is usually political, ie deliberately confusing anti-semitism with anti-Zionism.

But anyway, so far the cease fire seems to be holding, not much sign of longer term peace negotiations yet and Israel's back to it's old ways with some ethnic cleansing-

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/...olished-israel

The southern Naqab region is home to approximately 160,000 Palestinian Bedouins, according to the Association for Civil Rights in Israel’s estimates. As part of the estimated 1.7 million Palestinian citizens of Israel, they face more than fifty discriminatory laws that limit their access to state resources and stifle political expression, the Haifa-based Adalah Legal Center reports.

But then the Bedouins seem to get discriminated against pretty much everywhere.
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Old 06-09-2014, 16:45
DinkyDoobie
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Yup, sadly human nature. Not something exclusive to any one religion.
No its a ridiculous trope repeated by conspiracy theorists and the likes of david duke.


Well, yes. That's an issue with labels. Arab was geographic, ie people from Arabia. That would include Jewish people and exclude Egyptians as many prefer to be North Africans. Semites are more a linguistic and cultural lable that includes Arabs, and there's no anthropological evidence to support it being exclusively Jewish.
Considering the term was coined in the 1880's by a german to describe hatred towards jews i'm not sure what the point of saying but arabs are semites to is.
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Old 06-09-2014, 20:32
Jellied Eel
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No its a ridiculous trope repeated by conspiracy theorists and the likes of david duke.
Or accusing anti-Zionists of being anti-semitic. It's a simple insult but meaningless if the debate is around the policy or actions of the state.

Considering the term was coined in the 1880's by a german to describe hatred towards jews i'm not sure what the point of saying but arabs are semites to is.
The term you quoted is Judenhass, or translates to 'Jew Hate'. Not semite hate. Example of the difference here-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29095044

A freed French hostage has claimed that one of the Islamists who held him captive in Syria was the suspect in the Jewish Museum shooting in Brussels.

...Mr Nemmouche, who is of Franco-Algerian origin, appealed against the extradition from France, fearing he might be sent on to Israel, but lost the case.

Two of the victims of the 24 May attack were Israeli tourists. A French female volunteer at the museum and a Belgian employee were also killed.


A hate crime due to the victims (probably) being Jewish, and the perpetrator not really caring about the politics. Hamas typically confines itself to attacking Israeli targets, not Jewish ones outside Israel. Other Islamic groups are less focussed which is why political solutions that reduce anti-Zionist (and thus anti-Jewish) sentiments need to be pursued. Bombing and killing just because people carry the wrong lable isn't the way to bring about any kind of lasting peace in the region.
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Old 06-09-2014, 21:00
Flibustier
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How much land did the Israelis manage to take from the West Bank this week?
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Old 06-09-2014, 21:22
jediknight2k1
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How much land did the Israelis manage to take from the West Bank this week?
Zero.

But the PA refused an offer from Egypt to take on the settlers.

"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has rejected an Egyptian proposal to resettle Palestinian refugees in a large tract of land in the Sinai Peninsula to be annexed to the Gaza Strip.

Speaking to a gathering of his Fatah party in Ramallah Sunday, Abbas said that an unnamed senior Egyptian official recently approached him and suggested settling Palestinians in an area 1,600 square kilometers (618 square miles) large adjacent to Gaza, reviving an idea originally proposed by former Israeli national security adviser Giora Eiland.


“They [the Egyptians] are prepared to receive all the refugees, [saying] ‘let’s end the refugee story’,” Abbas was quoted by Ma’an news agency as saying.

The Palestinian leader noted that the idea was first proposed to the Egyptian government in 1956, but was furiously rejected by Palestinian leaders such as PLO militant Muhammad Youssef Al-Najjar and poet Muin Bseiso who “understood the danger of this.”
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Old 06-09-2014, 22:11
rhod
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They did manage to demolish a dairy factory whose profits were the sole income of a charity for orphaned children, though.

I bet that makes every Zionist's heart swell with pride.
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Old 06-09-2014, 22:11
Flibustier
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US considers action against Israel after announcement of West Bank land grab -

See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us....SY6iUHRY.dpuf
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Old 06-09-2014, 22:14
Flibustier
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Another thousand acres

Binyamin Netanyahu orders the biggest land-grab in a generation
Sep 6th 2014 | From the print edition

SOME people are never grateful. On August 31st Israel’s government made its largest appropriation of occupied West Bank land in a generation. It took some 1,000 acres of virgin hills for a proposed new city, Givaot, doubling the population of the Gush Etzion block of settlements sprawling on the hills around Bethlehem.

But it was not enough for the area’s Israeli mayor, Davidi Perl. Frustrated by what he perceives as the government’s grovelling to westerners, on everything from the recently halted war in Gaza to the conduct of peace talks with Palestinians, he says he will change party—defecting from Likud, led by the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, to Jewish Home, a party of religious radicals headed by Naftali Bennett.

Many others are following. A poll on September 2nd showed that Mr Bennett had, in effect, replaced Mr Netanyahu as champion of the right-wing camp. Although Mr Netanyahu’s approval ratings are roughly on a level with where they stood before the 50-day war in Gaza, much of the approval comes from Israelis who vote for parties left of Likud. Challengers within his party are demanding more aggression in Gaza, where the ceasefire left no clear winners, and faster entrenchment of settlements in the West Bank, even though the settler population is growing three times faster than that of Israel proper.

During the Gaza war former loyalists like Gidon Saar, his interior minister, repeatedly denounced the ceasefire deal, which envisages a gradual easing of the blockade on Gaza. A bruised Mr Netanyahu is resorting to political outreach. He and his wife, Sara, are hosting party members in the run-up to the Jewish new year. After months of relying on statements, he is again giving televised interviews.

Mr Netanyahu’s supporters hope that settlement expansion will shore up his core backing on the right. Four parliamentarians come from Gush Etzion, including the foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, the Knesset speaker and the head of its powerful foreign affairs and defence committee. The new settlement, they hope, will assuage the anger at the killing of three Jewish students, whose capture outside a religious school in Gush Etzion sparked the Gaza war.

But the more Mr Netanyahu indulges the right, the more he alienates the outside world. America, the UN and the European Union have urged Mr Netanyahu to reverse course. The British prime minister, David Cameron, denounced the expansion as “utterly deplorable”.

To its foreign critics, Mr Netanyahu’s government tries to minimise the move. Tendering for construction has yet to begin, officials note; and even if it should, the land abuts the green line and lies inside blocs of territory that Israel would anyway annex under any conceivable peace agreement with Palestinians.

Nevertheless, hopes of reviving peace talks are evaporating, just as they did when Mr Netanyahu’s last land appropriation in March made peace talks go “poof”, in the words of John Kerry, the American secretary of state. Mr Netanyahu may have negotiated the Gaza ceasefire with a Palestinian delegation that included the Islamist Hamas movement, which rules Gaza. But he says he will not talk peace with the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, as long as his government is backed by Hamas. His defence minister, Moshe Yaalon, says the arms build-up in Gaza shows that Israel cannot cede the West Bank.

Spurned again, and under pressure from a resurgent Hamas, Mr Abbas is toying with asking the UN to impose a three-year deadline for ending Israel’s occupation of the West Bank. Even some settlers, along with Mr Netanyahu’s centrist rivals, wonder whether the prime minister has gone too far. “It’s stupid to accelerate Israel’s delegitimisation with steps which make Israel look radical and Palestinians level-headed,” says Yair Kahn, a rabbi at Har Etzion, a large yeshiva in Gush Etzion with a reputation for pragmatism.

Encircled by Mr Netanyahu’s latest appropriation, Palestinian residents of the bucolic village of Wadi Fukin have already lost all but 450 of the 3,000 acres they once had, and stand to lose more. The hillsides where the village’s 600 sheep and goats graze are set to go. Unable to farm, many men find work as builders, often on Jewish settlements nearby. They may yet be called upon to build homes for Israelis on land they regard as their own.

http://www.economist.com/news/middle...other-thousand
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Old 06-09-2014, 22:27
jediknight2k1
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US considers action against Israel after announcement of West Bank land grab -
See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us....SY6iUHRY.dpuf
Already cancelled 5 days ago to the same website.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/is...ure-1015162706

The usual accurate reports from Western media.
http://cifwatch.com/2014/09/03/times...the-west-bank/
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Old 07-09-2014, 05:48
DinkyDoobie
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The term you quoted is Judenhass, or translates to 'Jew Hate'. Not semite hate.
It was the word that got replaced by anti-semitism in germany as a result of this guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Marr
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:39
Jellied Eel
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"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has rejected an Egyptian proposal to resettle Palestinian refugees in a large tract of land in the Sinai Peninsula to be annexed to the Gaza Strip.
The refugees are refugees from land originally owned in occupied Israel. This is part of the long-term peace problem. Israel doesn't want any right of return for non-Jews because it would alter the demographics. See also-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

The initiative attempts to end the Arab–Israeli conflict, which means normalizing relations between the entire Arab region and Israel, in exchange for a complete withdrawal from the occupied territories (including East Jerusalem) and a "just settlement" of the Palestinian refugee crisis based on UN Resolution 194 (which calls for a diplomatic resolution to the conflict and resolves that any refugees "wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors" should be able to do so or, if they otherwise wish, should be provided with compensation).

And see also the side-bar for alternative suggestions.

The Palestinian leader noted that the idea was first proposed to the Egyptian government in 1956, but was furiously rejected by Palestinian leaders such as PLO militant Muhammad Youssef Al-Najjar and poet Muin Bseiso who “understood the danger of this.”
Obvious danger is Israel would simply annex the Gaza Strip, as Feiglin and other Israelis have lobbied to do.
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Old 05-11-2014, 16:25
The 12th Doctor
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Now I'm not saying my views on Palestine are controversial or anything, but I've been blocked on Twitter by Frankie Boyle almost certainly because of them.
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