So he carried his team to the World Cup final scoring 4 goals in the process, after a difficult season where he struggled with injuries and only managed 28 league goals in 31 appearances (3 behind Ronaldo), and you've decided he's finished?
I wouldn't say he carried them to the final , I don't even think he was their best player in the tournament.
I also wouldn't say he is finished but time will tell. He has now played in 2 world cups and been average in both of them imo. He has proven to be a top player, there is no argument about that. I do however think, like his team Barcalona that he has peaked.
Aren't 'keepers the first name on most teamsheets? :P
I think he is the best keeper in the world right now, you just have to look at some of the saves he was making in the Brazil game just after half-time when they were throwing the kitchen sink at Germany.
I've mentioned in another thread that whenever talk of 'best player in the world' goes around, it's rarely anything beyond strikers, number-10's, or attacking midfielders that get mentioned. The likes of Neuer, Lahm, Kompany, Zabaleta etc never get a look-in, in spite of being 'World Class' by most definitions - they just aren't flashy enough to be considered for individual awards or Nike / Adidas adverts.
For a defensive player to be considered, they would need to be a player like Koeman: Scores goals, has a speciality: freekicks or a Beckenbauer, who can play other positions beyond his primary one. It's unfair but I don't think people generally praise/like the natural counter productiveness of defenders in football.
I wouldn't say he carried them to the final , I don't even think he was their best player in the tournament.
Take away his goals and Argentina wouldn't have made it out of their group - a group featuring Iran, Nigeria and Bosnia and Herzevogina. He also did all of the hard work for Di Maria's goal against Switzerland.
He may not have been Argentina's best player, but they wouldn't have made it anywhere near the final without him.
I also wouldn't say he is finished but time will tell. He has now played in 2 world cups and been average in both of them imo. He has proven to be a top player, there is no argument about that. I do however think, like his team Barcalona that he has peaked.
I don't think he had a particularly bad tournament this year or in 2010. Average only in comparison to his own ridiculously high standards.
I guess we'll see how he performs next season, maybe his best seasons are behind him, but you really can't make that claim just based on a World Cup; he's scored 227 goals in 211 games since his last "average" tournament.
Top top keeper IMO.
The save i was most impressed with was on Benzema in the dying minutes.
He raised his right arm and the ball just bounced off as if it hit a spring embedded in cement
Neuer had a great tournament, but was only really tested in the Algeria game. Like posters on this thread said, people shouldn't forget his (sometimes less than great) performances for Bayern Munich or Schalke. He is of course better than Joe Hart though, as are most keepers.
I think Lev Yashin was the only goalkeeper to ever receive the Ballon d'Or. As for defenders, Cannavaro got it in 2006 (ahead of Buffon) and he was not a goal scoring defender, just absolutely outstanding. So I don't think a defender has to necessarily score goals in order to stand out. Many of Beckenbauer's goals were own goals anyway
As for Messi and Ronaldo, I actually think Suarez is the best player in the world at the moment. He can bring it for club as well as country. Uruguay were an absolute joke without him, yet with him they were a completely different team. If Suarez didn't bite people on a regular basis, he would be a serious contender for best player in the world.
Messi had the benefit of a fairly strong Argentina squad and still couldn't shine. He wasn't even Argentina's best player. This was actually his third World Cup and he still hasn't managed to make an impact on the world stage. His performance in 2014 will be remembered as decent at best, but nothing that will go into the history books.
He played brilliantly for his club when he had a team around him that consisted of basically the Spanish national team, players who won 3 major international tournaments in a row. However, as soon as he is taken out of his familiar environment and put under pressure he can't shine. Ronaldo is the same. I feel sorry for Messi because the world is always expecting something extraordinary from him and he just isn't extraordinary when he doesn't play for one of the best clubs in the world.
As for Maradona not winning anything at club level, I would like to stick Messi into a team like Sunderland and see how he performs. Napoli won their first ever Series A with Maradona. They even retired the No.10 jersey in his honour. Messi may be the best club footballer we have, but he will never be on the all time greatest list unless he starts performing for his country.
Top top keeper IMO.
The save i was most impressed with was on Benzema in the dying minutes.
He raised his right arm and the ball just bounced off as if it hit a spring embedded in cement
That the save that mark lawrenson described as easy, and bread and butter for a keeper
Neuer had a great tournament, but was only really tested in the Algeria game. Like posters on this thread said, people shouldn't forget his (sometimes less than great) performances for Bayern Munich or Schalke. He is of course better than Joe Hart though, as are most keepers.
I think Lev Yashin was the only goalkeeper to ever receive the Ballon d'Or. As for defenders, Cannavaro got it in 2006 (ahead of Buffon) and he was not a goal scoring defender, just absolutely outstanding. So I don't think a defender has to necessarily score goals in order to stand out. Many of Beckenbauer's goals were own goals anyway
As for Messi and Ronaldo, I actually think Suarez is the best player in the world at the moment. He can bring it for club as well as country. Uruguay were an absolute joke without him, yet with him they were a completely different team. If Suarez didn't bite people on a regular basis, he would be a serious contender for best player in the world.
Messi had the benefit of a fairly strong Argentina squad and still couldn't shine. He wasn't even Argentina's best player. This was actually his third World Cup and he still hasn't managed to make an impact on the world stage. His performance in 2014 will be remembered as decent at best, but nothing that will go into the history books.
He played brilliantly for his club when he had a team around him that consisted of basically the Spanish national team, players who won 3 major international tournaments in a row. However, as soon as he is taken out of his familiar environment and put under pressure he can't shine. Ronaldo is the same. I feel sorry for Messi because the world is always expecting something extraordinary from him and he just isn't extraordinary when he doesn't play for one of the best clubs in the world.
As for Maradona not winning anything at club level, I would like to stick Messi into a team like Sunderland and see how he performs. Napoli won their first ever Series A with Maradona. They even retired the No.10 jersey in his honour. Messi may be the best club footballer we have, but he will never be on the all time greatest list unless he starts performing for his country.
Messi's record for Argentina:
93 caps 42 goals
Maradona record for Argentina:
91 caps 34 goals
Messi's goals and assists dragged that Argentina to the final. His form for Barcelona is far better than Maradona had at any club in his career, including when Maradona was at Barcelona. As for Suarez being the best player in the world, no. He isn't at the same level as Messi and Ronaldo.
As for Sunderland now vs Napoli 1986/87 and 89/90 it's a ludicrous comparison.
Just on a side note, I had forgotten that the Bayern Munich team which lost so disgracefully to Real Madrid actually had two members of the Brazilian national team in their defence/midfield who have been replaced with Hummels and Schweinsteiger in the Germany team (if I recall correctly). That might explain a lot
Just on a side note, I had forgotten that the Bayern Munich team which lost so disgracefully to Real Madrid actually had two members of the Brazilian national team in their defence/midfield who have been replaced with Hummels and Schweinsteiger in the Germany team (if I recall correctly). That might explain a lot
True indeed!
What did you think of Hummels in ET in the final? He had lost his legs there , quite worrying to be honest. None of his team-mates seemed to be struggling THAT much.
Comments
I wouldn't say he carried them to the final , I don't even think he was their best player in the tournament.
I also wouldn't say he is finished but time will tell. He has now played in 2 world cups and been average in both of them imo. He has proven to be a top player, there is no argument about that. I do however think, like his team Barcalona that he has peaked.
For a defensive player to be considered, they would need to be a player like Koeman: Scores goals, has a speciality: freekicks or a Beckenbauer, who can play other positions beyond his primary one. It's unfair but I don't think people generally praise/like the natural counter productiveness of defenders in football.
He may not have been Argentina's best player, but they wouldn't have made it anywhere near the final without him.
I don't think he had a particularly bad tournament this year or in 2010. Average only in comparison to his own ridiculously high standards.
I guess we'll see how he performs next season, maybe his best seasons are behind him, but you really can't make that claim just based on a World Cup; he's scored 227 goals in 211 games since his last "average" tournament.
The save i was most impressed with was on Benzema in the dying minutes.
He raised his right arm and the ball just bounced off as if it hit a spring embedded in cement
That is the main reason that they should never be considered as being in the same class as the likes of Messi and Ronaldo.
They can only ever be compared with other goalkeepers. In that respect, Neuer is undoubtedly top drawer.
I think Lev Yashin was the only goalkeeper to ever receive the Ballon d'Or. As for defenders, Cannavaro got it in 2006 (ahead of Buffon) and he was not a goal scoring defender, just absolutely outstanding. So I don't think a defender has to necessarily score goals in order to stand out. Many of Beckenbauer's goals were own goals anyway
As for Messi and Ronaldo, I actually think Suarez is the best player in the world at the moment. He can bring it for club as well as country. Uruguay were an absolute joke without him, yet with him they were a completely different team. If Suarez didn't bite people on a regular basis, he would be a serious contender for best player in the world.
Messi had the benefit of a fairly strong Argentina squad and still couldn't shine. He wasn't even Argentina's best player. This was actually his third World Cup and he still hasn't managed to make an impact on the world stage. His performance in 2014 will be remembered as decent at best, but nothing that will go into the history books.
He played brilliantly for his club when he had a team around him that consisted of basically the Spanish national team, players who won 3 major international tournaments in a row. However, as soon as he is taken out of his familiar environment and put under pressure he can't shine. Ronaldo is the same. I feel sorry for Messi because the world is always expecting something extraordinary from him and he just isn't extraordinary when he doesn't play for one of the best clubs in the world.
As for Maradona not winning anything at club level, I would like to stick Messi into a team like Sunderland and see how he performs. Napoli won their first ever Series A with Maradona. They even retired the No.10 jersey in his honour. Messi may be the best club footballer we have, but he will never be on the all time greatest list unless he starts performing for his country.
That the save that mark lawrenson described as easy, and bread and butter for a keeper
Messi's record for Argentina:
93 caps 42 goals
Maradona record for Argentina:
91 caps 34 goals
Messi's goals and assists dragged that Argentina to the final. His form for Barcelona is far better than Maradona had at any club in his career, including when Maradona was at Barcelona. As for Suarez being the best player in the world, no. He isn't at the same level as Messi and Ronaldo.
As for Sunderland now vs Napoli 1986/87 and 89/90 it's a ludicrous comparison.
I respectfully disagree with Lawrenson there. I think he made it look very easy. It certainly wouldn't be for many keepers
True indeed!
What did you think of Hummels in ET in the final? He had lost his legs there , quite worrying to be honest. None of his team-mates seemed to be struggling THAT much.