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Streaming sound systems
LudwigVonDrake
Posts: 12,836 Forum Member
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Hope this is the right thread. And no doubt this'll cause much amusement, but here goes.
I've having to look for a new sound system as the old CD player has sadly put itself into "retirement".
I know "CD is on the way out" and I'm "living in the past" but I'm not entirely convinced about this wifi connected replacement that everyone seems to be going for. I'm not 100% against streaming but it seems most of these systems aren't so straightforward.
For starters, from what I understand, you have to have a NAS drive - bit of a faff to add that, but not a huge headache I suppose.
I've had a look at Sonos, but that reqiures a tablet or phone to be able to control it. Bose do something similar, but again, as with both, in order to access the album you want, you have to have another device to control it. I don't want to use my phone, and I've not got a tablet device.
Plus, a lot of them seem to push for actual streaming (Deezer, Spotify, Apple-wosit et al) I'm not interested in that, I just want to listen to my music - that I already have.
I know I can probably by a cheap CD player, but the ones that are still available don't seem to be suitable.
Are there any recommendations on these new systems? Any suggestions would be welcome.
I've having to look for a new sound system as the old CD player has sadly put itself into "retirement".
I know "CD is on the way out" and I'm "living in the past" but I'm not entirely convinced about this wifi connected replacement that everyone seems to be going for. I'm not 100% against streaming but it seems most of these systems aren't so straightforward.
For starters, from what I understand, you have to have a NAS drive - bit of a faff to add that, but not a huge headache I suppose.
I've had a look at Sonos, but that reqiures a tablet or phone to be able to control it. Bose do something similar, but again, as with both, in order to access the album you want, you have to have another device to control it. I don't want to use my phone, and I've not got a tablet device.
Plus, a lot of them seem to push for actual streaming (Deezer, Spotify, Apple-wosit et al) I'm not interested in that, I just want to listen to my music - that I already have.
I know I can probably by a cheap CD player, but the ones that are still available don't seem to be suitable.
Are there any recommendations on these new systems? Any suggestions would be welcome.
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Depending on the gear you own at the moment it is entirely possible to replace the CD Player. This could be a standalone player or an all-in-one CD player with amp and FM/DAB radio tuner. To this you would add a pair of speakers; either your existing ones if suitable or a pair of Hi-Fi loudspeakers. Look up Denon DM40 for the electronics and Q Acoustics for speakers. These are popular choices and a decent starting point.
If you prefer the idea of starting to store music digitally but without the hassle of ripping (converting a CD to a music file) via a computer then Brennan has one answer: the JB7. This is a compact CD player plus hard drive. The process of ripping and storing music as digital files is automated. You don't need a smart phone to operate it because it comes with a standard remote control, and it connects to ordinary Hi-Fi speakers very much like the Denon.
Forgot to mention, a store employee said "it's such an effort to get a CD out the case and play it"
Now this might sound daft, but... no it isn't. With some of these systems you have to get out the tablet/phone - wait for it to turn on, open the app, then search for the song, if its streamed - hope they've got it on the service, and then play.
Same number of steps, I'll admit but it just seems a lot more of a faff to me.
However, I'm sure others will disagree, and I'm willing to listen.
And since I posted the original post, I've contemplated getting a cheap tablet to use - unless that's another headache unto its own.
A very good secondhand CD player can be bought for a pittance these days and I I cannot imagine what would not be suitable unless you were considering a multi-disc player or a format such as SACD. You would have to give more information with regard to the number of CD's you have, the current system you have and if you have any streaming boxes such as an Amazon Fire TV/Fire Stick/Roku/Google or even a smart TV and a home computer or laptop.
Streaming is a great solution not only because it is convenient but because ripping CD's to Flac or Wav will result in better quality. You could use itunes to rip and stream your music or you could use something like dbpoweramp which is also very cheap. It can be as cheap or expensive as you want it to be although one important ingredient for the very best quality whether it be playing CD's or streaming is a DAC.
Can I ask what do you have against streaming? Or against services such as Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Qobuz etc? Spotify is free with ads and they aren't too intrusive, it is a great way of not only discovering new music but some of your old favourites you haven't listened to in years. There is a three tier option to suit everyones budget and quality. I would hate to count up how much I have spent over the years on my collection, although in fairness I have been collecting for 50 years. Now though I buy very few but use Tidal to access a lot of music in Flac, fantastic quality and I have millions of tracks to listen to.
Spotify standard gives you free access
Spotify Premium/Apple gives you higher quality for £10 pm no ads
Tidal gives you Hi-Fi quality for £19.99 pm
Deezer costs either £19.99 or £120 a year up front (£10 pm) for Hi-Fi
I have a cd collection of over 5000 cd's but I have ripped them to a NAS and stream all of my music not only more conveniently but in higher quality. I hated phones, regretted ever losing my old Nokia, it lasted for weeks without charging, it took me a very long time to buy a smart phone and I only did so because I got it FREE with my new contract. It is a different world, I download an app FREE to control my media through the Amazon Fire TV, I can access all of my music that I store on my NAS on the phone wherever I am.
Depending on how many CD's you have but as an example you could probably fit 500 cd's on a 128gb USB drive costing £25-£30 plugging it into an Amazon Fire TV £80 and downloading a Free app such as VLC or other alternatives buy a HDMI splitter and connect it to your amp. The 2TB WD Cloud were available direct from the WD Store for just £70 retail £99 and you could have up to 15,000 cd's. You could even buy a cheap NUC/ Raspberry P.I and run a server for all you rmedia. Although I would invest in a DAC instead.
Don't write off streaming, just try it, almost free if you have a laptop or computer hanging around. An old one will do, it doesn't need to be that powerful. I guess I was lucky to have a very good Hi_fi system built up over the years with a great DAC, Amp, Speakers etc, I had a NAS for all my photos, movies and ripping cd's was a natural option. The key was deciding how to get the files from my NAS to my DAC but there are great options such as JR River, HQ Player which cost very little without add ons. You can honestly spend as little or as much as you want there are so many options whatever your budget is.
http://www.cocktailaudio.co.uk/overview.shtml
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cocktail-Audio-X10-2TB-X10-2tb/dp/B005GU00VS
Basically it rips CDs automatically to the internal hard drive. It can connect to an audio system or use it's built in amplifier with a pair of speakers.
It does have it's own peculiar foibles but generally it does the job of playing music very well. And being totally self contained it doesn't rely on being hooked up to any network in order to do it's thing. Though you can connect it to a network and with a suitable NAS drive it can stream audio from that if you want.
Depends how many cd's you have on your shelves to look through even if they are in order. I even had to go to another room.
Thanks for that. I had a look at a 1TB NAS - I've certainly not got 500 CDs, but I'm assuming that'd be sufficient, even in WAV / FLAC - as I'm assueming they'll take up a lot more space.
Thanks for that recommendation.
Reminds me of the kid in Back to the Future II at the old-timey arcade machine in the Cafe 80s.
My only minor thing is that I wanted it to take audio stored on my desktop computer and as of yet I have found no way of doing that. I use Spotify for streaming at the moment, I have a 2 month free trial, it is good,m not sure if it worth £10 a month.
I can stream audio saved on my tablet as well.
TBH, I still prefer CD's, not only are they cheaper than buying MP3's, but I still think they sound better. I am going to get a record deck soon and a pre-amp, when I can move things around int he sitting room to put them.
Hey my son and I have over 5,000 CD's so you would think I have more than enough to choose from but for the price of 2 cd's a month I can have access to thousands of CD's I could never possibly afford to buy. There is so much good music around it is impossible to keep buying everything you like. Okay music has always been a passion for me and my son over paying SKY subs etc. As far as paying for streaming, I was a little put off with the prospect of ad supported Spotify but really you get 3-4 songs between ads and a lot of the time 30 minutes. However I have paid for a higher quality streaming service opting in and out of Tidal, Qobuz and Deezer depending on offers.
I could end up paying £20 a month for SKY and watching maybe 3 or 4 shows over a month but instead I pay on average around £15 a month, 1 1/2 cd's and probably listen to around 500 albums either at home or travelling covering new stuff and even though I have a huge collection I often stream the album from the service, simply because the search facility and playlists are easier. Don't forget also you get a lot of exclusive content including live performances that you can't buy.
Good Luck and don't be swayed into spending a fortune on stuff you don't need, presumably you already have an amp and speakers just marry them up and try and borrow a DAC which makes a huge difference. Honestly someone might try and sell you an expensive streaming set up but you could buy a good DAC and stream your music from a computer, itunes will rip to Wav or Aiff dbpoweramp will rip to Flac and get far better results. Flac offers better metadata but wav just squeaks quality but almost no difference unless you use a top end system. Hi-Fi and IT have merged so much that it is a difficult choice to choose which path.
Option 1: Use Google Music to store your audio tracks and stream from there. Even if you don't then it's a useful backup service in case your desktop drive dies.
Option 2: Use a NAS running a media server instead of your desktop so you can access your music (and video) from any tablet, phone or computer at home even when your desktop is switched off. You can then use Chromecast Audio to play music on your hi-fi.
I don't pay for any streaming service as I don't think they are worth the money
For the MP3 generation they're used to having all of their music instantly accessible. So yes, I can see how they might consider it a bit of a chore; but here's the thing, they've lost the ability (IMO) to relax and just listen to a whole album. They flit from artist to artist and album to album like a butterfly visiting flowers. They cherry-pick because there's a constant nagging that's very similar to the desire to constantly fiddle with social media feeds on a mobile phone.
Media storage and/or streaming do have some advantages. Storing music as digital files makes it accessible over a wide range of platforms and easy to access in different ways. This is what Sonos exploits very well: Sharing music across multiple players (multi-room) and being able to play as many different files as you have player devices all at the same time, or play one file across all the players as a whole network. This is network playback.
Streaming has evolved in to something different. It is accessing music and media (e.g. podcasts) that exist somewhere else outside of your home. So it has become a way to tap in to remote libraries via the web. What I like about streaming is the facility to explore the work of artists that are new to me, and to catch up on programmes that interest me. I particularly like biographies. If these things sound appealing then something along the lines of Cocktailaudio would be worth investigating. Sonos is this plus multi-room. A cheap Android tablet should work fine as a Sonos controller.
My own system comprises of vinyl, CD, SACD, Sonos and an Android media streaming box which is mainly for films. It's a combination of Hi-Fi and AV separates. For quality my primary music source is CD and SACD.
Guess that's down to the sales patter they are instructed in.
I'll admit, I do have the iPod on shuffle - but usually on a playlist of songs I know I want to listen too.
However, listening to an album is still a beter experience. Especially with those "concept albums" that virtually demand you listen in sequence.
That's what I was thinking.. although then you've got to go though the faff of geting anitvirus for it. Whoda thunk, you need AV for a glorified remote control. Technology. Pfft.
I think what irks me is that they seem to bundle home-streaming and net-streaming into one. Other than the monthly sub, I don't have a reason to be against it, but I just am.
Besides, some of my CD collection will not be on these services. And I certainly don't want it to suggest things for me. I do not want to listen to "Beyond the Sea" (Bobby Darrin) and then have Robbie Williams awful verison suggested/playing. (just as an example).
And then there's the issue of relying on getting the right metadata.
Seen a demo of another system (with a tablet built in) - it had streamed suggestions.. it looked OK until they selected "Getting Sentimental Over You" by Englebert Humperdink.
The artist image that appeared was.... Englebert Humperdink - the German composer, and not Leicester's Arnold Dorsey. *insert roll eyes emoji here*
If you do feel more secure with an anti-virus package then Avast for Android is good and free in basic form.
The reason for the use of tablets and smart phones is because of all the meta data. People are now accustomed to rich displays. A basic text display is available with the Brennan JB7. The catch is that the data on the hard drive is isolatated; it can't be accessed via PC or other network devices.
For as long as I have been using and selling Sonos I don't recall ever having this kind of issue with track suggestions. The only thing I have seen is that free versions of streaming services carry advertising.
And I should take this moment to thank everyone for their replies. Its nice to ask a question in a forum and get sensible replies.
I've had a brief look into NAS drives, WD seems a common brand, but I've seen in reviews that some NAS drives don't want to co-operate with some ISP routers. Just another layer of things I've got to look into....... I'm still going to maintain that sticking a CD in a drive and pressing play is easier.
I guess that explains the B&O Moment then. ;-) Which as you may have guessed is the one that I saw confusing Englbert Humperdinks.
Geez, there's a sentance I didn't expect to type this morning.
Actually I'm surprised none else seems to have struck upon the idea of a built-in (cheap) tablet as part of the main device. No need to get an app on your phone, its all there on the front of the music system.
Easier said than done I guess..
It is reasonable to believe you are far from convinced about streaming so from someone who is passionate about music and have been for 50 years and as I have posted earlier have 1000's of cd's and an extremely eclectic taste may I try and allay some of your doubts.
First of all explore all the services on offer, find the quality you want, Spotify and Apple offer only up to 320k so not CD quality.Tidal, Qobuz, Deezer offer true Hi-Fi quality matching your CD in fact probably a shade better. Explore the artists covered as some have exclusive deals and yes it is a pain but there are few exclusive deals and they are getting smaller. Finally make it fit your pocket. If I could go back and keep every receipt for my CD collection, it would no doubt run into a small mortgage. If Hi-Fi streaming had been available and affordable as it is now 10-15 years ago the money I would have saved would have bought me my Hi-Fi system many times over and my catalogue of listening would have been expanded threefold. It took my friend 2 years to convince me, 2 years I regretted not delving into it.
One of the biggest benefits I have found with streaming is discovering music I haven't listened to in years. I stopped listening to Elton John probably about 20 years ago then I discovered Tumbleweed Connection and couldn't stop listening to it for days and yes I listened to the entire album without interruption and also had the pleasure of reading the sleeve notes, lyrics and details of who appeared on the album, where it was produced in fact more than is available on my original Vinyl or re-mastered CD. I have a small band of artists who are centred around Boston and when I was streaming Jonatha Brooke there was a link to Jennifer Kimbal and their earlier work together where they did 3 albums. Once again I hadn't even thought to listen to that first album, it's stored somewhere among my thousands of CD's in the other room but I haven't been inspired to listen to it and yes I listened to it over and over, in fact like many old albums I seem to be spending a great deal more time re discovering them over what I am discovering from new stuff.
You mentioned metadata and matching your music well that is very easy as there are a lot of software out there that is great for managing your media. I have Kodi manage all of my media because it has the ability to download original and fanart, the discography, artist information is as small or as detailed as you want and can be merged with your streaming service. For instance I use the Tidal App as an add on in Kodi and if I select say Ben Folds the image I have chosen in the background appears whether I am using Tidal or if I select the same album from my music collection. If I go to the Tidal Web App they provide, I do not get the same image. So there are plenty of work arounds. Kodi is open source and free and don't be put off by all the piracy issues surrounding it, yes you can use those add ons, I don't and don't condone them in anyway but Kodi as a media management program is probably the best around. The beauty of using Kodi is that if you had a basic WD Cloud 2TB storing all your music (and much more, photos, films) you could buy an Amazon Fire Stick and run it on there. Total cost £105-£130. You could spend 3-4 times that on a dedicated streaming set up such as Sonos and wouldn't do the same job. The money you could save could be invested in a good DAC which would transform your sound.
So streaming is an area you should explore before writing it off, there are endless possibilities both cheap and expensive, browsing back catalogue and being re-energised by discovering old stuff you haven't listened to for years. Sitting down as I do and reading all the notes that go along with the album and then linking to someone that appeared on that album and discovering that you may like what they do without going out and buying it first. As I said I wasted 2 years not listening to my friend, I was pretty old school, loved spending Saturday mornings in Collectors records picking up promos and bargains but now I can do both, still collect a CD from my favourite artist and sit back and browse so much more.
The issues for a manufacturer though are longevity, support and cost: Will the panel be available all the way through the foreseeable production run and service life of the finished unit; and once integrated who then becomes responsible for resolving software issues etc? i.e. you're more likely to accept replacing a standalone £50 tablet if it goes kaput after 3 years than having the front panel display goes on the fritz in your £1000 audio server. Finally, all these aspects have to be costed, so sourcing reliable product and then buying in sufficient stock of the chassis-mountable panel, and employing extra people to then be responsible for implementation and ongoing support, and then finally assessing the impact on the product price given that the server sells in to the same market where £50 Android tablets exist and (in Britain at least) 2/3rds of all mobile phone users now have a smart phone. These two things alone create a price expectation that if a fully functioning 5" tablet can be bought for £50 then surely it's cheaper to add one in to a server. None of the additional costs are ever considered and there's little thought given to how volumes of scale affect pricing of finished goods.
Sonos started out with a fairly chunky remote that was shower-proof when their system first launched roughly 15 years ago. Image LINK. From memory it was about £280; expensive but it worked well and the thumb wheel was familiar to anyone with an iPod. Sometime around 2009 the new version of the remote landed in the UK. It looked more like a small PDA. Image LINK This came after Sonos had already launched their control App for iOS and Android. Smart phone ownership was really taking off so I sold very few of the new remotes and other Sonos dealers I knew said it was the same for them too. Although the new product was touchscreen and better resolution it just looked like a very expensive option when many Sonos buyers already owned smart phones. iPad launched in 2010 and kicked off the tablet market. By mid 2012 Sonos killed their new remote.
When I'm installing Sonos systems I'll often find a household where even the kids have smart phones and there's at least one tablet in each of the family rooms. People just seem to love any excuse to use these gadgets.
I did notice they had a Kindle for something like £69, so I guess that'd have to do.
I am warming to the notion of these personal-cloud-based music systems (which is probably the name I should have used for this thread), I think I could jsut about tolerate it. So long as I don't have to be badgered into subbing for SpottyDeezTunes.
I guess the next phase is figuring how I'd have to set it up - in the physical sense of course. Far as I can figure, if I get just a bog-standard WD NAS, plug that into the wifi router hub and then start to add my iTunes library into it. (And presumably free up HD space on the PC at the same time).
That sounds simple enough, but as these devices (Bose/Sonos etc.) use wifi, I assume I'm then at the mercy of the singal when it comes to placement in the room where the "magic box o' music speaker" is going to sit. I don't like the notion of buffering or lag when it comes to changing tracks on a playlist for example.
And going on a completely different tangent, when it comes to NAS drives (these are all new to me) you have direct control over them? I read in the Amazon comments section that someone said that they couldn't access their files as the WD servers were down? Surely that can't be right?
Not sure a Kindle would do. It's essentially an electronic book, not sure it is designed to remote control AV kit. You probably need an Android based device or an iPad to run the remote control app.
I wouldn't take too much notice of some Amazon reviews. I've read some pretty shocking stuff by people who clearly have no idea how the tech they are reviewing actually works.
I have a WD MyCloud NAS drive and it makes no use whatsoever of any internet based services in normal use. Possibly getting confused by the fact that some of the utilities it installs on your computer use a web browser to talk to the MyCloud device. But despite using a web browser it's not actually talking over t'interweb.
True. It amazes me when folks "review" products that aren't even released yet.
Ahh ok.. although is that just in the initial setup stage?
Reason I'm dubious (long story short), I've purchased a PC perheripal which came bundled with "free software". Only snag is, I can't log onto the company website. Currently in a lenghty (going around in circles) e-mail conversation with their "support" - who keep telling me that I need to register the product. And I have to keep explaining that I can't regiester it if I can't log in/create an account. Bring back the days of a CD in the box that inculdes the software!
mini rant over....
There was no software bundled with the MyCloud drive. You have to go to the WD website and download it. But you don't have to sign away your life and sell your first born to the mighty Western Digital to get it
Anywho.. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Well if. I'm still considering the options.
Did see a Rourke CD system that also did streaming. OK, it needs a tablet (I'll get over it), and it looked like the best of both worlds. Until I saw the price. £2k? Yikes.
It would be easier for someone to give you more options if you could list what you already have. For example do you have an old laptop or computer lying around? Some people go out and buy a new shiny media centre such as a compact NUC when they already have an older better computer doing nothing. Presumably you already have a good Hi-Fi and what you really want is connectivity between your streaming and Amp in the same convenient way you played your CD's.
Depending on the number of CD's you want to rip there is ample storage on the entry WD Cloud model and I have set this up for secondary use such as my son who is currently looking to sell all of his CD collection.
1. Amazon Fire TV/Chromecast Audio - WD Cloud - DAC - S/hand Smartphone - itunes - £200 - £300
Fire Stick costs £35 Sideload Kodi (Free) or buy and download the forked version of MrMc on the Fire TV. The main difference between Kodi and MrMc is that MrMc is Kodi without all the unofficial add ons which many use to add illegal streams etc. You can sideload Kodi for free or buy the MrMC app for just £4.13 from Amazon App Store. Thiis will manage your music library. which is much better than itunes.
WD Cloud can often be bought direct from the WD store for £70 it retails at £99.99. This can store 4,000 CD ripped to Flac or Wav. (Flac offers better metadata) You can use itunes to rip your CD's but Flac cannot be done through itunes but Wav and Aiff can. DB Poweramp is probably regarded as the best ripping software, certainly near the very top and has a great metadata support and error correction.
There are a number of DAC's availble which start under £50 and can be over £10,000 but there are some brilliant DAC's available under £100 from Cambridge, AudioQuest, Beresford which will do a great job, reviews are available in What Hifi to give you a good idea. A DAC will transform your sound and is a far better investment than spending a small fortune on a dedicated streaming set up from Sonos etc.
To control your music and you only need your TV for initial set up, once set up you could buy a cheap secondhand smart phone, android or ios. My son had an old iphone 4 kicking around my wife got one for £35. The Kodi remote app is free and you can control all your music from your sofa.
With the WD Cloud set up, you don't need a computer running a server, Kodi can manage all of your media using the Twonky server installed on WD Cloud. If however you want to use a laptop/computer that may be lying around you could download the Plex server free and the phone app just £3.99 which will give you better control over your artwork. I still prefer Kodi installed on a mini ipad because the music management is brilliant with so much detail including lyrics.
My advice is spend less on the streaming element and more on the sound such as the best DAC you can afford. There is an abundance of great outlets online not only ebay or gumtree but people like Hi-Fi wigwam, HiFi Guy and many good Hi-Fi stores seel S/Hand discontinued stock at great prices.
When I started out I bought new and could only afford a fairly reasonable set up but my friend introduced me to great S/Hand outlets and I started over a period of buying the best I could afford bit by bit. I bought a second hand pair of Michell Alecto monoblock amps and I paid £400 nearly 8 years ago, a pair recently sold for £550. Later I bought a Chord DAC 64 and paid £600, again one recently sold for £750. the cherry on top was the brilliant Tom Evans Vibe pre-amp with pulse power supply, I paid £700 and the cheapest I have seen is £1250 and they are so rare they get snapped up around £1500. Apart from my speakers which again I got an absolute bargain I could sell my Alectos, DAC and Tome Evans and make a handsome profit. Good Hi-Fi doesn't lose value. It is just an example of buying new isn't always best.
Another option is to look for a S/hand Naim Unit Qute where you have a great amp, DAC, tuner and streaming unit all in one. They are £1400 new but can be bought for £600 -£700 S/hand and that is serious streaming quality, the equivalent Linn Sneaky DS is also brilliant. There are so many options open to you and it can be as cheap or expensive as you want to make it.
I do have two speakers, but thanks to this thread (I mean that in a good way) I'm starting to think that one of these all-in-ones might be just as good.
I am considering something like a Dennon - if I just go down the CD route, but the draw to streamers (is that the right word?) is getting stronger.
Part of my initial gripe was that a lot of them seem to push online-streaming - something I've got no interest in. That and whole tablet issue. Maybe I'm just a stuck in the mud on such things.
I've not got 4k CDs but if I can fit that many in Flac on a NAS then I shouldn't have to worry about running out of space.
The only issue is making sure that if I use Flac/WAV that the ol' iPod doesn't have a tantrum about it. But that's a whole other thread I guess.
I'll be honest, what's also drawing me to the streamers (I'm just going to keep using that!) is the potential to add extra units. I think its Sonos that advertises that you can take two of the smaller units to make a tradtional L-R setup. Which is why the change in stance on my old speakers.
I guess I'll have to face the fact that in-home entertainment is evolving, and perhaps now is a reasonably good time to switch. I'd imagine today's systems are a vast improvement on the first generation.
Although I'm still crotchety about the store sales pitch of "everyone's doin' it maaaan." *peace sign*
Sure technology changes; I'm not expecting Bose to include an an option for an 8-Track, but CD isn't completly dead just yet. Besides, how long before streaming becomes old hat? And look at vinyl, nostalgia has bought that back for another spin on the turntable.
[/old fart]
I mention this because something like the Denon I mentioned in my first post is definitely not the last word in audio fidelity. Don't misunderstand; it is decent for what it is and there are plenty of happy owners out there, but it is all relative. If your current system is separates and based around something decent like a Rotel, NAD, Creek, Arcam or Denon amp then you may have a much better system already. If you fancy the idea of 'streaming' as you call it then a simple add-on box such as the Sonos Connect (ZP90) would be a better choice than a pair of Sonos speakers configured for stereo.
Hopefully you've understood by now that there are enough products out there that can be used just with your own media library (e.g. Cocktailhour, Brennan, Sonos etc), and that online streaming is simply an option where it's your choice whether to dip in or not.
Unless you want to convert music files in to lots of other formats for use on a tonne of different devices then I can't see a good argument for using WAV when you have the original CDs to hand. Sure, WAV is the closest you'll get to a bit perfect copy of a CD to a file format, but whether you'll hear that benefit compared to FLAC or even some of the lossier compression formats is very debatable.
For most iPod users iTunes is their bit of software that acts as a gateway for putting music on to their portable music player. Apple as a company has a tradition of doing things its own way. For an easy life either use a 3rd party bit of software to convert FLAC files to Apple's AAC format before iTunes sees them, or alternatively let iTunes make a rip of your CDs to AAC so it can then tag the data files as it sees fit. You don't want to be putting FLAC files on an iPod. They'll eat too much space for a start, and besides that you won't hear the benefit via the headphone amp in an iPod and earbuds or even good headphones of a 25 MB FLAC file over a 4 MB AAC version.
For home use storage per MB is far cheaper than in portables and so file size is less of an issue. The limiting factors then are the quality of the replay gear, the listening volume and the acoustics of the room. Anything based around a compact head unit with a digital amp and speakers with small drivers such as the 2.5"-4" mid bass drivers Sonos Play speakers, or the drivers in typical sub-£200 stand mount speakers, aren't going to be able to resolve the difference between FLAC and higher bit-rate MP3. A 'lively' room (one with lots of hard reflective surfaces) or a room where the stereo system is parked on a bookcase shelf will hamstring the resolving capabilities. Similarly if the typical listening volume is low then there won't be enough scale in the music reproduction to hear what's going on fully.
As already mentioned, the convenience market likes streaming, but that doesn't mean that we should all jump in the same boat.
I think it would help that we knew what the base system was. As per replies to one of my posts controlling streaming seems an obstacle. I mentioned that connecting an Amazon Fire TV to manage media from a NAS such as the WD Cloud was a cheap solution and that a cheap s/hand smat phone could easily control it was a good starting point for a basic set up. In a reply TV 4K and Wi-Fi was mentioned, I only mentioned that the TV was for set up only.
Throughout I have also said how important buying a DAC is a better investment than a dedicated streaming solution such as Sonos. As for format, Flac is a good file format with better metadata than Wav but isn't supported by Apple, Wav files, I agree even Flac are large files and they present huge storage problems for phones and ipods but do you really want all of your library on those devices? Once you have ripped your music, you can easily convert files for portable media but storage solutions even for phones and ipods are becoming so cheap I often wonder if there is any point. As an example I have pulled around 100 playlists from a fairly eclectic mix than I have on an external usb that plugs into my iphone. it is equivalent to around 200 cd's. I am now considering selling my beloved Chord DAC 64 and buying the Chord Hugo that will serve my home system and also be portable to connect to my iphone/ipod when in bed or travelling. Cheap storage has made having your music at higher bit rates than the usual MP3's an afforrdable solution, especially having to have two libraries to transfer.
Streaming can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be but the starting point should be and can be very affordable and deliver great sound quality provided your base system itself is good. We need to convince LudwigVon Drake that streaming can bring a whole new and old world of listening too.
I'm not professing to be completely clued up on it all, but it must be overwhelming for someone who's not particulary tech savvy.
I did see there were some decent CD players (as such) but then there were some down right awful looking speaker setups. Some looked like they'd been raiding Darth Vader's cloest for design tips.
Saw a cheap and cheerful tablet, but then I noticed it was running W10. Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. But hey, if they have the apps in the store, then it might be a bargain.
Well to be honest I think I muddled home-streaming and online-streaming together at the start. I now see that there is a separation, and perhaps like all good tech, they offer both options to make it more convieniant.
It just seemed at the very start (when I posted the original question) that you had to use both at the same time - ie., you search for 'Joe Blogs' in your collection and the system blatantly ignores it to find it on Spotty-wotsit.
I now appriciate that for people who do not want large collections of physical media, that's all well and good.
Forgive my ignorace here, so in converting the CD collection to digital would be best in either WAV or FLAC for use on a Sonos, Bose etc.?
Currently what music I have digitally is in Apple Lossless, but I'm assueming that's fine for a ipod but could-do-better for any of these streamers?
Agreed.
Unless I'm crossing wires here, I'm sorry I've not got a 4K telly.
Thanks for the suggestion though, but I'm going to keep the TV separate from any music system.
As you said though, it does seem that you can spend as little or as much as you want. Which, despite my initial misgivings on this new era of home-entertainment, is a good thing. Sure there are still reasonable costs envolved (espeically if you have to sub to a service), but its not as bad as it could be.