One of the main reasons I visit this site is to hear any news on missing episodes from the classic series -finding, & or releasing.
Of particular interest is episode 2 of the Underwater Menace as we know it is actually "out there", but still awaiting a DVD release (of any sort).
I know there's a petition for its release and information as to its current status on other sites. But currently, we are all none the wiser as to when it will be released, how it will be released, or if it will be released at all!
It states that the 2015 release has been "removed from the schedule". It also quotes information as to why from a release from the BBC consumer Products department: “We appreciate that some Doctor Who fans are disappointed that we have not yet been able to release The Underwater Menace on DVD. We would like to reassure everyone that we are currently reviewing the best way to bring fans more Classic Doctor Who titles."
What do they mean by this? You could read into it maybe they do have (or in negotiation to obtain) other missing episodes, maybe other orphaned episodes (i.e. not complete or almost complete stories) and now looking at releasing together in maybe a Lost in Time set 2 package (or repackage). Or you could read this rather cynically that they are planning to release "more classic titles", (including the unreleased Underwater Menace ep 2) via a new forum or new boxset specials, i.e. aside from UWM#2, nothing new at all. Or somewhat pessimistically maybe, the person from the BBC commenting doesn't realise this is the 1 remaining outstanding episode to release!
So lets assume the most likely:
animation has been cancelled due to cost and/or challenges of bringing it together, no they still do not have any missing episodes but maybe awaiting developments with Phillip ("the wind is blowing the right way") Morris. So assuming no more immediate developments on that front what do they do with UWM#2? In that article you will see Anneke Wills' frustrated tweet about the fact they have recorded the commentary (one can assume for surviving (and now fully restored) 2nd & 3rd episodes only) & a doco for the story. If they then have no other orphaned episodes available (to release a Lost in Time mk II), why don't they do a proper release of either or both EotW & WoF (with commentaries, docos and consistent DVD covers) &, as with the Aztecs SE & Air Lock, add the solo episode 2 (or both) surviving episodes of UWM.
Thoughts?
Episode 2 is freely available online, I've seen it, but not sure about the DVD release.
It's sad that it isn't happening but I've kind of expected it to have been cancelled for a few months now. With animation out of the window it becomes a tough sell for anybody in charge of the purse strings. A doctor who story which has 50 percent missing and has the opening and closing episodes missing and is pretty much regarded as a poor story would be tough sell for Anybody in charge of the purses but with no animation to draw more people in it's an even tougher sell. With Dan hall no longer in charge of the range to champion the underwater menace DVD release I feel the only way it will be released on the bbc online store when it starts later in the year. Even though Dan had a lot of detractors for some of his decisions (Shada, some box set decisions, special editions, airlock in Aztecs se) he always tried to do what was best for the range
I do think you need someone like a Dan hall at bbc worldwide. Someone who is enough of a fan of the show to champion the release and is willing to do the work on finding ways to plug the gaps. With Dan gone there is no one that is willing to do that
It should never have been cancelled in my opinion. All archive TV is a important part of the medium's history and as such should be made widely available; frankly, I think it's ridiculous The Underwater Menace is being ignored by BBC Worldwide instead of being celebrated as a rich part of TV culture with a DVD release.
It should never have been cancelled in my opinion. All archive TV is a important part of the medium's history and as such should be made widely available; frankly, I think it's ridiculous The Underwater Menace is being ignored by BBC Worldwide instead of being celebrated as a rich part of TV culture with a DVD release.
I agree it should be released on DVD but on the other hand I can totally see how this is a tough DVD for bbc worldwide to get on board with.
It's a 1960s black and white story with its opening and closing episode missing with no animation available and is regarded as one of the worst doctor who story of the 60s and out of of those 2 surviving episodes 1 has already been released (on lost in time) and the other most have already seen it online. Plus DVDs are also on a downward spiral in recent years. Regardless of how popular the Doctor who brand is or not that is a tough sell. It's an almost unique situation we have here.
I agree it should be released on DVD but on the other hand I can totally see how this is a tough DVD for bbc worldwide to get on board with.
It's a 1960s black and white story with its opening and closing episode missing with no animation available and is regarded as one of the worst doctor who story of the 60s and out of of those 2 surviving episodes 1 has already been released (on lost in time) and the other most have already seen it online. Plus DVDs are also on a downward spiral in recent years. Regardless of how popular the Doctor who brand is or not that is a tough sell. It's an almost unique situation we have here.
I think they could at least include it as a special feature on the series 9 box set, even if it would look out of place. It hasn't stopped them before - Pyramid Of Mars was on both the Sarah Jane Adventures series 4 box set and the Complete Collection of SJA.
I think they could at least include it as a special feature on the series 9 box set, even if it would look out of place. It hasn't stopped them before - Pyramid Of Mars was on both the Sarah Jane Adventures series 4 box set and the Complete Collection of SJA.
There was a connection though. On 1 of the episodes on season 4 of sja there was a very brief mention of that adventure and that had 1 of the actresses in it. Series 9 won't have any connections.
There was a connection though. On 1 of the episodes on season 4 of sja there was a very brief mention of that adventure and that had 1 of the actresses in it. Series 9 won't have any connections.
True but the series 9 box set is partly aimed at those of us who want to see The Underwater Menace on DVD and those who wouldn't otherwise be interested would possibly watch it out of curiosity.
True but the series 9 box set is partly aimed at those of us who want to see The Underwater Menace on DVD and those who wouldn't otherwise be interested would possibly watch it out of curiosity.
No it isn't l. It's aimed at people that want series 9 on DVD and blu Ray. Classic who only sells a fraction of what the main series DVD and blu Ray does. Most people that buy series 9 probably won't know or even care about classic who or it being a missing episode, I doubt bbc worldwide will even care about it being a missing episode not yet on DVD. Look at how little promotion on airlock got. 1 line on the back of the dvd and that was about it. Personally I think the only way I can see them doing it is if there is someone who is at bbc worldwide who is enough of a fan of doctor who and this story to champion this story. Since Dan hall left I feel there is no one
Including um2 and the already made extra features on the season 9 set seems the best way our of this mess. The extra features on the last set were so few and that boring that the next set could do with something extra. It would not matter a jot to people who buy just for the season 9 episodes as they would see it as just another extra, however it would boost sales of the set if a preciously missing classic adventure was included on it. To me its a no brainer but the current attitude seems to be can't and won't for some strange reason.
Including um2 and the already made extra features on the season 9 set seems the best way our of this mess. The extra features on the last set were so few and that boring that the next set could do with something extra. It would not matter a jot to people who buy just for the season 9 episodes as they would see it as just another extra, however it would boost sales of the set if a preciously missing classic adventure was included on it. To me its a no brainer but the current attitude seems to be can't and won't for some strange reason.
A lot of people are saying can't or won't as they are being realistic. If it was to appear on the series 9 set you will get fans complaining about having to get series 9 just to get 1 episode of underwater menace (not all classic fans like the current show and vice versa) and also fans complaining about having to fork extra for an episode they don't want. The episode will look so out of place compared to the series 9 episodes with it being black and white and standard definition plus it will be utterly confusing for those that have no idea that episode is missing. Also they have been cutting back on extras in recent years.I want underwater menace episode 2 out on DVD as much as the next person but I think casually bunging it on series 9 for no reason other than there is nothing else available at the moment isn't the best way of releasing it
I'm sure if another missing story is found it will be released together with this...
Which adds another interesting dimension to this.
What would happen now if another story (or even episode) was found,? How would they be released, or would they be released at all now that the range has come to and end and the unit that was working on the restoration has been decommissioned? The second scenario here of no release is more likely for another orphaned episode being found (one would assume)..
If a story was found complete, or almost complete, I'm sure they would release UWM ep2 with this, even if it was something like Marco Polo or the Smugglers for example (think back to Airlock with The Aztecs -which was almost as much out of place as something like this).
But would this story (or any further found story for that matter), get any extras thrown in? Or, does it mean we would only get releases like WoF & EotW in future, should there be a further find? Which to a degree, I can understand for the rush to release these 2 stories back in 2013, but to do so moving forward I think would discredit such a find & upset 1 or 2 of us classic series fans (not to mention & actors/ crew associated with the story still alive).
Will wait and see, but not holding my breath that the BBC will be confronted with such a situation, or the rather obvious downstream events that would follow (40+ Who fans rioting in the streets & fire bombing the Beeb)..
I'm sure if another missing story is found it will be released together with this...
Which adds another interesting dimension to this.
What would happen now if another story (or even episode) was found,? How would they be released, or would they be released at all now that the range has come to and end and the unit that was working on the restoration has been decommissioned? The second scenario here of no release is more likely for another orphaned episode being found (one would assume)..
If a story was found complete, or almost complete, I'm sure they would release UWM ep2 with this, even if it was something like Marco Polo or the Smugglers for example (think back to Airlock with The Aztecs -which was almost as much out of place as something like this).
But would this story (or any further found story for that matter), get any extras thrown in? Or, does it mean we would only get releases like WoF & EotW in future, should there be a further find? Which to a degree, I can understand for the rush to release these 2 stories back in 2013, but to do so moving forward I think would discredit such a find & upset 1 or 2 of us classic series fans (not to mention & actors/ crew associated with the story still alive).
Will wait and see, but not holding my breath that the BBC will be confronted with such a situation, or the rather obvious downstream events that would follow (40+ Who fans rioting in the streets & fire bombing the Beeb)..
With no Dan hall in charge of the range anymore any further finds will be pretty much bare bones. Any random episodes that turn up will turn up on the bbc I store or whatever it ends up being called. The underwater menace cancelation told me 1 thingThe days of incomplete stories of anymore than 1 episode missing getting DVD is pretty much over now
A lot of people are saying can't or won't as they are being realistic. If it was to appear on the series 9 set you will get fans complaining about having to get series 9 just to get 1 episode of underwater menace (not all classic fans like the current show and vice versa) and also fans complaining about having to fork extra for an episode they don't want. The episode will look so out of place compared to the series 9 episodes with it being black and white and standard definition plus it will be utterly confusing for those that have no idea that episode is missing. Also they have been cutting back on extras in recent years.I want underwater menace episode 2 out on DVD as much as the next person but I think casually bunging it on series 9 for no reason other than there is nothing else available at the moment isn't the best way of releasing it
How about putting it in with the next Christmas Special single disc release? There should hopefully be room and the price tag on that disc isn't much.
Look at vinyl. A niche product. They release limited edition releases and collectable alternative covers and special box sets that increase in value over time due to it being a small niche product. I expect when blu becomes niche it will be something similar
DWM's VHS/DVD article last month mentioned that The Underwater Menace DVD is not happening. Very very sad news. The company doing the animation went bust. I spoke to Frazer Hines a couple of months back and he said he had no idea what was happening: all of the documentaries, etc, were recorded a couple of years ago and he has been paid doing for doing them!
I can't be bothered to sit in front of my computer and watch a standalone episode. Having all four on DVD will make them make sense and pull together coherently (as coherently as The Underwater Menace is ever going to). The Moonbase is vastly improved by being 50% animation rather than 50% bugger all. I can't get to grips with the recons and am normally drifting off within a few minutes of starting them. At least there's the soundtrack CDs. The Crusade is pretty good, with 50% DVD and 50% CD.
Once again, The Underwater Menace sinks to the bottom.
It wouldn't work because it would be very out of place. A lot of Doctor Who fans out there, are very particular about this sort of thing.
Re-releasing the 'Lost In Time' box-set would be a much better option, IMO.
I'm not sure about re-releasing Lost in Time just for one episode, but it's a better option that having it on this year's Christmas episode release. I don't want Christmas stuff cluttering up my shelves!
DWM's VHS/DVD article last month mentioned that The Underwater Menace DVD is not happening. Very very sad news. The company doing the animation went bust. I spoke to Frazer Hines a couple of months back and he said he had no idea what was happening: all of the documentaries, etc, were recorded a couple of years ago and he has been paid doing for doing them!
I can't be bothered to sit in front of my computer and watch a standalone episode. Having all four on DVD will make them make sense and pull together coherently (as coherently as The Underwater Menace is ever going to). The Moonbase is vastly improved by being 50% animation rather than 50% bugger all. I can't get to grips with the recons and am normally drifting off within a few minutes of starting them. At least there's the soundtrack CDs. The Crusade is pretty good, with 50% DVD and 50% CD.
Once again, The Underwater Menace sinks to the bottom.
I'm all for a reissued and updated Lost In Time, but if that's not an option and if the animation is really too expensive, or not possible for whatever reason, then I'd settle for two episodes of soundtrack and telesnaps.
It's not a bad compromise surely? And it must be quite a cheap option. Web Of Fear 3 has been issued like that, and while it's clearly not as much fun as an animated ep, it's a hell of a lot better than nothing at all. Which is sadly what we're getting with Underwater Menace.
Yes the story is clichéd and dopey, but it's also bafflingly ambitious and full of entertaining what the hell were they thinking moments - pretty good fun if you're in the right mood. And it's a terrible shame that we can't see the returned episode.
Comments
Episode 2 is freely available online, I've seen it, but not sure about the DVD release.
I agree it should be released on DVD but on the other hand I can totally see how this is a tough DVD for bbc worldwide to get on board with.
It's a 1960s black and white story with its opening and closing episode missing with no animation available and is regarded as one of the worst doctor who story of the 60s and out of of those 2 surviving episodes 1 has already been released (on lost in time) and the other most have already seen it online. Plus DVDs are also on a downward spiral in recent years. Regardless of how popular the Doctor who brand is or not that is a tough sell. It's an almost unique situation we have here.
I think they could at least include it as a special feature on the series 9 box set, even if it would look out of place. It hasn't stopped them before - Pyramid Of Mars was on both the Sarah Jane Adventures series 4 box set and the Complete Collection of SJA.
There was a connection though. On 1 of the episodes on season 4 of sja there was a very brief mention of that adventure and that had 1 of the actresses in it. Series 9 won't have any connections.
True but the series 9 box set is partly aimed at those of us who want to see The Underwater Menace on DVD and those who wouldn't otherwise be interested would possibly watch it out of curiosity.
No it isn't l. It's aimed at people that want series 9 on DVD and blu Ray. Classic who only sells a fraction of what the main series DVD and blu Ray does. Most people that buy series 9 probably won't know or even care about classic who or it being a missing episode, I doubt bbc worldwide will even care about it being a missing episode not yet on DVD. Look at how little promotion on airlock got. 1 line on the back of the dvd and that was about it. Personally I think the only way I can see them doing it is if there is someone who is at bbc worldwide who is enough of a fan of doctor who and this story to champion this story. Since Dan hall left I feel there is no one
A lot of people are saying can't or won't as they are being realistic. If it was to appear on the series 9 set you will get fans complaining about having to get series 9 just to get 1 episode of underwater menace (not all classic fans like the current show and vice versa) and also fans complaining about having to fork extra for an episode they don't want. The episode will look so out of place compared to the series 9 episodes with it being black and white and standard definition plus it will be utterly confusing for those that have no idea that episode is missing. Also they have been cutting back on extras in recent years.I want underwater menace episode 2 out on DVD as much as the next person but I think casually bunging it on series 9 for no reason other than there is nothing else available at the moment isn't the best way of releasing it
Which adds another interesting dimension to this.
What would happen now if another story (or even episode) was found,? How would they be released, or would they be released at all now that the range has come to and end and the unit that was working on the restoration has been decommissioned? The second scenario here of no release is more likely for another orphaned episode being found (one would assume)..
If a story was found complete, or almost complete, I'm sure they would release UWM ep2 with this, even if it was something like Marco Polo or the Smugglers for example (think back to Airlock with The Aztecs -which was almost as much out of place as something like this).
But would this story (or any further found story for that matter), get any extras thrown in? Or, does it mean we would only get releases like WoF & EotW in future, should there be a further find? Which to a degree, I can understand for the rush to release these 2 stories back in 2013, but to do so moving forward I think would discredit such a find & upset 1 or 2 of us classic series fans (not to mention & actors/ crew associated with the story still alive).
Will wait and see, but not holding my breath that the BBC will be confronted with such a situation, or the rather obvious downstream events that would follow (40+ Who fans rioting in the streets & fire bombing the Beeb)..
With no Dan hall in charge of the range anymore any further finds will be pretty much bare bones. Any random episodes that turn up will turn up on the bbc I store or whatever it ends up being called. The underwater menace cancelation told me 1 thingThe days of incomplete stories of anymore than 1 episode missing getting DVD is pretty much over now
How about putting it in with the next Christmas Special single disc release? There should hopefully be room and the price tag on that disc isn't much.
Its already on dailymotion to watch.
I can't see Blu-Ray EVER becoming niche!
It wouldn't work because it would be very out of place. A lot of Doctor Who fans out there, are very particular about this sort of thing.
Re-releasing the 'Lost In Time' box-set would be a much better option, IMO.
I can't be bothered to sit in front of my computer and watch a standalone episode. Having all four on DVD will make them make sense and pull together coherently (as coherently as The Underwater Menace is ever going to). The Moonbase is vastly improved by being 50% animation rather than 50% bugger all. I can't get to grips with the recons and am normally drifting off within a few minutes of starting them. At least there's the soundtrack CDs. The Crusade is pretty good, with 50% DVD and 50% CD.
Once again, The Underwater Menace sinks to the bottom.
I'm not sure about re-releasing Lost in Time just for one episode, but it's a better option that having it on this year's Christmas episode release. I don't want Christmas stuff cluttering up my shelves!
I'm all for a reissued and updated Lost In Time, but if that's not an option and if the animation is really too expensive, or not possible for whatever reason, then I'd settle for two episodes of soundtrack and telesnaps.
It's not a bad compromise surely? And it must be quite a cheap option. Web Of Fear 3 has been issued like that, and while it's clearly not as much fun as an animated ep, it's a hell of a lot better than nothing at all. Which is sadly what we're getting with Underwater Menace.
Yes the story is clichéd and dopey, but it's also bafflingly ambitious and full of entertaining what the hell were they thinking moments - pretty good fun if you're in the right mood. And it's a terrible shame that we can't see the returned episode.