I think very few voters voted no because of the last minute olive branch from Westminster. Most had made their minds up before then and are fully aware that it is very doubtful they will come to pass.
As for comparing us to montenegro and calling us running scared. The ties we have to the union are much deeper than anything they have had. In my eyes it isn't being chicken to try new things but logical to carry on as part of a nation who has clout in the world
What clout has the UK got in the world?
Zilch in Europe and it's the USA's lapdog in world police matters.
The long and the short is that the Yes campaign failed to convince the prosperous tax generating majority of Scots that living in a country dominated by the welfare dependent parts of Scotland was better than the Governance we have now.
A fact clearly borne out in the way the local authorities to the north, south and East of the central belt voted.
All of which tells me as an Englishman what I already knew...
which is that the Scots are a proud and patriotic people who will talk about their country, sing about their country and occasionally even brawl about it - but they are also some of the most pragmatic people in the world, perfectly able to see a pig in a poke. They smelt the coffee even if Salmond didn't.
As to respecting Scotland - what a stupid comment. Speaking for myself I had huge respect for Scotland and its people before all this blew up and I still do now. I can't imagine many people south ofthe border thinking any differently. The problem of respect is, I'm afraid, entirely Scotland's. The have to find a way to heal the rift that this thread is about and I don't think it will be either easy or quick. The only comparison I can make (and maybe its not a very good one) is with the miners after the strike which was broken by the UDM. Nearly forty years later, there are still gaping divisions both between and within families. I do hope the Scots look at that and decide that's a road they don't want to go down.
The long and the short is that the Yes campaign failed to convince the prosperous tax generating majority of Scots that living in a country dominated by the welfare dependent parts of Scotland was better than the Governance we have now.
A fact clearly borne out in the way the local authorities to the north, south and East of the central belt voted.
That may well be the case, though I suppose people outside might be puzzled that issues of finance and the economy were the the main ones when it came to voting, and not those of national identity and self determination. Many countries who achieved independence would probably have been better off financially sticking with their bigger neighbours.
made this comment in the main discussion thread last night
a lot of YES supporters through the night were banging on about a victory for "project fear" , the best way for the YES campaign to have countered that was to give concrete and specific answers to the issues that people were concerned about but categorically failed to do so, instead relying on vague promises
Funnily enough when I look at those 3 clowns sincerity and integrity are not what immediately spring to mind..
I have to say that if you take what those herberts say at face value I can see why you were so easily led astray by Mr Salmond.
Salmond is hardly a model of sincerity or integrity.
Throughout the campaign he was shifty and evasive, giving very little in the way of hard facts about what was to happen if he won. That's why he lost.
What clout has the UK got in the world?
Zilch in Europe and it's the USA's lapdog in world police matters.
Not really, that statement is more than a bit intelectually lightweight on your part, sadly.
The UK is classed as one of the 3 big players in Europe & is taken notice of by the US in a way very few nations are and has great cultural influence in many countries of the world including Commonwealth nations which has stayed with us even after the British Empire was consigned to history.
Try to add a bit of insight and depth to your arguments in future and you won't come across as being so simplistic.
Not really, that statement is more than a bit intelectually lightweight on your part, sadly.
The UK is classed as one of the 3 big players in Europe & is taken notice of by the US in a way very few nations are and has great cultural influence in many countries of the world including Commonwealth nations which has stayed with us even after the British Empire was consigned to history.
Try to add a bit of insight and depth to your arguments in future and you won't come across as being so simplistic.
I think very few voters voted no because of the last minute olive branch from Westminster. Most had made their minds up before then and are fully aware that it is very doubtful they will come to pass.
Along with Gordon Brown's intervention in the Labour camp, the olive branch was enough to stop the steady drift of the undecided towards the Yes vote. It was the prospect of the undecided voting Yes that won the promise of extra powers for Scotland.
Salmond is hardly a model of sincerity or integrity.
Throughout the campaign he was shifty and evasive, giving very little in the way of hard facts about what was to happen if he won. That's why he lost.
Defeated and politically wounded, Salmond seems intent on clinging on to power. The man has no dignity.
Too many Scots chickened out. They obviously like England looking after them. ;-)
That's a ridiculous thing to say. Did you not watch the News? Why did "yes" lose?
Well, on the news last night were some very lovely people. There was a father and his daughter each voting differently. There was tension between them but they were emotional and very nervous. There was an elderly lady in tears because she said "I have, for my entire life, considered myself to be British. I can't ever imagine being anything different".
At the end of day, those who put security, and what they felt comfortable with, stability, and so on just decided to stick with the status quo.
Personally I think it was due to the negativity & fear the No campaign banged on about, then Cameron met business leaders & then suddenly from nowhere a lot of businesses started with the doom & gloom statements of lost jobs & higher prices, wouldn't surprise me if Osborne did the same with the heads of the banks. Then finally it was the bribe of more powers which IMHO broke the Edinburgh act & Purdah.
I don't hold any resentment towards the no voters, if you keep drumming fear into folk then they will eventually believe anything you say. I'm just sad that for the second time most have voted for the bribes of new powers & lost a great chance to show we could govern ourselves & make a success of it.
people are risk averse. typically people feel loss more pointedly than they do similarly sized gains. It makes moving on social policies very difficult. Status quo bias is a big part of how people make decisions, so usually it takes a big offer to get people to change their minds. If there was too much uncertainty about how Scotland would fare after a Yes vote, it will drive people to the 'no' column.
I don't hold any resentment towards the no voters, if you keep drumming fear into folk then they will eventually believe anything you say. I'm just sad that for the second time most have voted for the bribes of new powers & lost a great chance to show we could govern ourselves & make a success of it.
Judging from how the polls have gone over the 2 year period leading up to the referendum. Most people it seems made their mind up long before the vow was made or the doom and gloom stories hit the papers. So stating that they voted for bribes of new powers seems pretty inaccurate IMO.
Personally I think it was due to the negativity & fear the No campaign banged on about, then Cameron met business leaders & then suddenly from nowhere a lot of businesses started with the doom & gloom statements of lost jobs & higher prices, wouldn't surprise me if Osborne did the same with the heads of the banks. Then finally it was the bribe of more powers which IMHO broke the Edinburgh act & Purdah.
I don't hold any resentment towards the no voters, if you keep drumming fear into folk then they will eventually believe anything you say. I'm just sad that for the second time most have voted for the bribes of new powers & lost a great chance to show we could govern ourselves & make a success of it.
So you were able to see through all the No propaganda while others weren't.
Not resentment towards the no voters but an element of contempt from your point of view ?
"Yes" lost because not enough people voted for them of course. But why was this, when we were told they were virtually neck and neck with "No" two weeks out, and had the momentum?
Was it because Salmond & Co were outgunned, or outsmarted, by Westminster? Was it establishment, or media, bias? Did scare tactics intimidate a nervous electorate? Maybe the Scottish see there is wisdom in maintaining an independent nuclear deterrent? Perhaps the "No" campaign won the economic argument, and splitting the union was just too big a risk to take? Or is it just that David Beckham carries more political weight than Andy Murray, even in Scotland?
So you were able to see through all the No propaganda while others weren't.
Not resentment towards the no voters but an element of contempt from your point of view ?
Not at all, more like sadness. Unlike a lot on here I don't hold folk in contempt for silly reasons.
They lost because nobody in the Yes camp could answer the difficult questions which meant not enough people were prepared to take a leap of faith into the unknown on the word SNP politicians saying "trust us, we'll sort it afterwards"
They lost because nobody in the Yes camp could answer the difficult questions which meant not enough people were prepared to take a leap of faith into the unknown on the word SNP politicians saying "trust us, we'll sort it afterwards"
That's pretty much it really : am not a risk taker, especially now I'm a mum and I never could get a straight answer for any of my questions, I just couldn't do it on that basis and the non answered questions seemed to build up and the answer was always a bit ' will just have to wait and see '
That's pretty much it really : am not a risk taker, especially now I'm a mum and I never could get a straight answer for any of my questions, I just couldn't do it on that basis and the non answered questions seemed to build up and the answer was always a bit ' will just have to wait and see '
I think the currency question was the main one and to be honest the yes campaign could have done much better.
As for the vow http://www.yesscotland.net/news/no-campaign-vow-unravels-within-24-hours
"Today, groups across the entire Yes movement issued an open letter to the people of Scotland urging them not to be fooled by last-minute “pledges” from the No campaign which are already falling apart.
It came as a growing number of Tory MPs at Westminster said they would fight tooth and nail to stop Scotland being given any more powers in the event of a No vote. One predicted there would be a “bloodbath” in the Tory party if more powers were given to Scotland".
You were offered snake oil and unfortunately you bought it.
Comments
What clout has the UK got in the world?
Zilch in Europe and it's the USA's lapdog in world police matters.
A fact clearly borne out in the way the local authorities to the north, south and East of the central belt voted.
which is that the Scots are a proud and patriotic people who will talk about their country, sing about their country and occasionally even brawl about it - but they are also some of the most pragmatic people in the world, perfectly able to see a pig in a poke. They smelt the coffee even if Salmond didn't.
As to respecting Scotland - what a stupid comment. Speaking for myself I had huge respect for Scotland and its people before all this blew up and I still do now. I can't imagine many people south ofthe border thinking any differently. The problem of respect is, I'm afraid, entirely Scotland's. The have to find a way to heal the rift that this thread is about and I don't think it will be either easy or quick. The only comparison I can make (and maybe its not a very good one) is with the miners after the strike which was broken by the UDM. Nearly forty years later, there are still gaping divisions both between and within families. I do hope the Scots look at that and decide that's a road they don't want to go down.
That may well be the case, though I suppose people outside might be puzzled that issues of finance and the economy were the the main ones when it came to voting, and not those of national identity and self determination. Many countries who achieved independence would probably have been better off financially sticking with their bigger neighbours.
a lot of YES supporters through the night were banging on about a victory for "project fear" , the best way for the YES campaign to have countered that was to give concrete and specific answers to the issues that people were concerned about but categorically failed to do so, instead relying on vague promises
Salmond is hardly a model of sincerity or integrity.
Throughout the campaign he was shifty and evasive, giving very little in the way of hard facts about what was to happen if he won. That's why he lost.
Not really, that statement is more than a bit intelectually lightweight on your part, sadly.
The UK is classed as one of the 3 big players in Europe & is taken notice of by the US in a way very few nations are and has great cultural influence in many countries of the world including Commonwealth nations which has stayed with us even after the British Empire was consigned to history.
Try to add a bit of insight and depth to your arguments in future and you won't come across as being so simplistic.
You don't half spout some pish.
Defeated and politically wounded, Salmond seems intent on clinging on to power. The man has no dignity.
That's a ridiculous thing to say. Did you not watch the News? Why did "yes" lose?
Well, on the news last night were some very lovely people. There was a father and his daughter each voting differently. There was tension between them but they were emotional and very nervous. There was an elderly lady in tears because she said "I have, for my entire life, considered myself to be British. I can't ever imagine being anything different".
At the end of day, those who put security, and what they felt comfortable with, stability, and so on just decided to stick with the status quo.
I don't hold any resentment towards the no voters, if you keep drumming fear into folk then they will eventually believe anything you say. I'm just sad that for the second time most have voted for the bribes of new powers & lost a great chance to show we could govern ourselves & make a success of it.
doesn't seem like such a mystery.
Judging from how the polls have gone over the 2 year period leading up to the referendum. Most people it seems made their mind up long before the vow was made or the doom and gloom stories hit the papers. So stating that they voted for bribes of new powers seems pretty inaccurate IMO.
So you were able to see through all the No propaganda while others weren't.
Not resentment towards the no voters but an element of contempt from your point of view ?
Simple hubris. It's a massive turn-off.
As it is, the result showed that the Scots are not yet ready to govern themselves.
Not at all, more like sadness. Unlike a lot on here I don't hold folk in contempt for silly reasons.
Thank God.
Would you like to retract?
That's pretty much it really : am not a risk taker, especially now I'm a mum and I never could get a straight answer for any of my questions, I just couldn't do it on that basis and the non answered questions seemed to build up and the answer was always a bit ' will just have to wait and see '
I think the currency question was the main one and to be honest the yes campaign could have done much better.
As for the vow
http://www.yesscotland.net/news/no-campaign-vow-unravels-within-24-hours
"Today, groups across the entire Yes movement issued an open letter to the people of Scotland urging them not to be fooled by last-minute “pledges” from the No campaign which are already falling apart.
It came as a growing number of Tory MPs at Westminster said they would fight tooth and nail to stop Scotland being given any more powers in the event of a No vote. One predicted there would be a “bloodbath” in the Tory party if more powers were given to Scotland".
You were offered snake oil and unfortunately you bought it.