Doctor/Clara romance in series 8?

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  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    Dogmatix wrote: »
    We don't even know if Time Lord and human equipment is physically and biologically compatible (putting The Curse of Fatal Death aside for the moment).

    As much as people would rather it hadn't happened it is now clear that Paul McGann and the 8th Doctor is canon. As such, the fact that the Doctor is half human is canon whether people like it or not (personally I don't mind it).

    So we do know that they are physically and biologically compatible because the Doctor is proof of that.
  • Granny McSmithGranny McSmith Posts: 19,622
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    KezM wrote: »
    Nope you're not the only one :). I often joke about it but no I thought Rose was brilliantly written as a companion and I completely believed in the Doctor's attachment to the woman who became his companion after the timewar and who saved him at one of his lowest points in TPOTW. And heck I even enjoyed Martha's unrequited love storyline as well, shock horror eh :eek:? Honestly sometimes a small group repeat the same things time and time again it looks like the majority opinion - it isn't. Alot of people liked the Doctor and Rose - you only have to look around the web to see that.

    Indeed, I love the Doctor's romantic entanglements - Ten and Rose, Eleven and River, and if in future it becomes Eleven and Clara, that's all to the good as far as I'm concerned. :D

    And I liked Martha's story, too.:)
  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    Indeed, I love the Doctor's romantic entanglements - Ten and Rose, Eleven and River, and if in future it becomes Eleven and Clara, that's all to the good as far as I'm concerned. :D

    And I liked Martha's story, too.:)

    Ditto :)
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    claire2281 wrote: »
    Also the cyber planner wouldn't have been able to talk about those emotions if the Doctor wasn't feeling them - the cybermen have no emotions. We know he thinks she's pretty because he agreed with Emma when she said so ;) I also believe it comes up in She Said, He Said.
    She's pretty, but not in the way he finds attractive. The Cyber Planner was trying to flatter Clara in order to manipulate her into helping - the very fact that it thought that would work indicates that it hadn't got the idea from the Doctor.
    Seriously, there's a LOT of very deliberate subtext written between the two but it has been done in such a way though that it's not in your face - which is good!

    There's ambiguity, frisson, call it what you will - but I don't think it's subtext. If you look at Donna/Doctor, they did the same thing - being confused for a couple all the time, along with hurried and overly-compensating denials.
  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    She's pretty, but not in the way he finds attractive. The Cyber Planner was trying to flatter Clara in order to manipulate her into helping - the very fact that it thought that would work indicates that it hadn't got the idea from the Doctor.

    I disagree. That was a classic case of the Cyber Planner pulling on real emotions but Clara knowing it's the sort of thing the Doctor would never admit to.
    There's ambiguity, frisson, call it what you will - but I don't think it's subtext. If you look at Donna/Doctor, they did the same thing - being confused for a couple all the time, along with hurried and overly-compensating denials.

    Everyone sees things differently. I'm quite satisfied i've spotted enough signs. A romance has been clearly sign-posted.
  • Whovian1109Whovian1109 Posts: 1,812
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    She's pretty, but not in the way he finds attractive. The Cyber Planner was trying to flatter Clara in order to manipulate her into helping - the very fact that it thought that would work indicates that it hadn't got the idea from the Doctor.

    There's ambiguity, frisson, call it what you will - but I don't think it's subtext. If you look at Donna/Doctor, they did the same thing - being confused for a couple all the time, along with hurried and overly-compensating denials.

    Gotta say I disagree with you here. There's been quite a few throw away lines (skirt that's just a little too tight) and the like on both sides, not to mention the way the Doctor acts around Clara. The facial expressions he always pulls, the awkward leaning on the TARDIS in Bells, the arm around her in Hide, none of these things he did with Amy for the simple reason he wasn't attracted to Amy. He was always very comfortable around her, but he feels a lot more awkward towards Clara at times and tbh the whole of Hide hinted towards a romance between them. Not to mention the fact that, unlike with Donna, neither of them have been quick to deny it when A+A call him her boyfriend, not to mention in TCH, they pretended to be married.

    Also, as I said in my introduction, I doubt the Moff will make it explicit, but there is a mountain of romantic undertones and hints throughout the season.

    Also, when it comes to The Cyberplanner, I suspect he does find her attractive, but as Clara says, he'd never admit it. His playful teasing suggests as much. That said, I do agree with you that the Cyberplanner definitely misread Clara, but not necessarily misread the Doctor's intentions towards her, just exaggerated them.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,379
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    Gotta say I disagree with you here. There's been quite a few throw away lines (skirt that's just a little too tight) and the like on both sides, not to mention the way the Doctor acts around Clara. The facial expressions he always pulls, the awkward leaning on the TARDIS in Bells, the arm around her in Hide, none of these things he did with Amy for the simple reason he wasn't attracted to Amy. He was always very comfortable around her, but he feels a lot more awkward towards Clara at times and tbh the whole of Hide hinted towards a romance between them. Not to mention the fact that, unlike with Donna, neither of them have been quick to deny it when A+A call him her boyfriend, not to mention in TCH, they pretended to be married.

    Also, as I said in my introduction, I doubt the Moff will make it explicit, but there is a mountain of romantic undertones and hints throughout the season.

    Also, when it comes to The Cyberplanner, I suspect he does find her attractive, but as Clara says, he'd never admit it. His playful teasing suggests as much. That said, I do agree with you that the Cyberplanner definitely misread Clara, but not necessarily misread the Doctor's intentions towards her, just exaggerated them.

    It's a shame we can't add in the awkward falling on top of each other and telling Captain Latimer that the Doctor was Victorian Clara's gentleman friend and they were upstairs kissing lol. I like the cheeky flirting and that's all we might get but we don't know how long D/C will have been together when they return in November also in what state will Clara be in after the finale.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 270
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    Please no. No. No. No. Noooo.

    Doctor + River - great; I really loved how this relationship was portrayed, probably because of the age difference and River's mysteriousness. This relationship was always somewhat understated, a bit awkward and we didn't even know if the Doctor relly loved River (till the finale). But Clara and the Doctor? That would be a repetition of Rose/Ten a bit silly, a bit too-obvious romance. Unfortunately, Steven Moffat, having disposed of River, can do now whatever he wants and I can see some signs (the Doctor's behaviour) suggesting such a relationship is hinted at since The Bells. Unfortunately.

    No. Please, Steven Moffat, explore the Doctor's Secret instead of making a crybaby out of my favourite Eleven. John Hurt. This face. That's the potential of series 8.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 262
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    No thank you!

    Several Doctors have been childlike, but only Tennant acted like a glib teen (imo)- all so that it was conceivable that he'd fall in deep romantic love with a know-nothing mouth breather who had so much get up and go that she achieved nothing off her own bat until she met a rich man who did everything for her while she acted like a selfish teen - which she was. Then she 'died' and her drive picked up big time as she tried to rip the Universe apart to get back with her tru luv! I know a handesome(ish), rich and important bloke falling madly in love with ordinary little you and whisking you away from all this, in his fancy motor is a popular teen dream, but it only happens in Young Adult fiction. Not that I have anything against Rose :D

    Clara would be even worse, because for all her 36475828 faults, Rose was a genuine and believable character, it was just my bad luck that she made my teeth hurt. Clara is a cypher, just a combination of useful companion characteristics, combined with now being the single most important person in the Who Universe, bar none, all in a handy, averagely acted package. After the Finale she's even worse. If she doesn't remember her past lives, there's no reason she'd improve, though the Doctor would trust her now. I suppose they could pull a 'Rory' and say that she can remember parts if she tries - not least the life she apparently spent on Gallifrey :rolleyes:

    I have no trouble with the Doctor having a relationship, but is it too much to ask that a being who's centuries old is with a grown woman? River was fine, because she was a member of his own species (sort of), intelligent capable and rather important (let's face it) mostly absent. She appeared for a couple of episodes a series, in a flurry of innuendo, so they could get up to whatever they got up to, then left again. Clara, depending on how much she remembers is either a young girl contributing to the Doctor's creepy old man persona, or an extremely old freak of nature. Even if there's no romance, the heart sinks at the thought of her.

    Oh well, maybe John Hurt will attack her, then she dies at Christmas, which will officially be Series 8.
  • SamsterSamster Posts: 382
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    Let's just for argument's sake a romantic elemnt is introduced between the Dr & Clara, how icky would it be if the next actor is significantly older?
  • JohnnyForgetJohnnyForget Posts: 24,061
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    Samster wrote: »
    Let's just for argument's sake a romantic elemnt is introduced between the Dr & Clara, how icky would it be if the next actor is significantly older?

    Precisely. She's kissing Matt one minute, he regenerates, and she's kissing a John Hurt or a William Hartnell the next!

    If the Doctor has to have a romance, and personally I'm against the idea, let it be with one of his own kind, i.e. a Time Lady like Romana or a near-Time Lady like River. NEVER with a young human girl like Rose or Clara!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,379
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    Samster wrote: »
    Let's just for argument's sake a romantic elemnt is introduced between the Dr & Clara, how icky would it be if the next actor is significantly older?

    That's sort of the issue I had with Rose and 9 because Billi was youngish at the time and she was apparently meant to be starting to falling for an older Chris then we change to 10 and David and it was like bam I love you because you are younger.

    I suppose for Jenna it would depend on how much older as because she looks quite young that someone even in their 40's might look a little odd.
  • Shawn_LunnShawn_Lunn Posts: 9,353
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    I hope not.

    They've got a great rapport with each other without throwing in a romance on top of it.

    Just let them be the best of friends and have fun travelling in the TARDIS.

    Besides Clara really doesn't seem to fancy the Doctor.
  • DogmatixDogmatix Posts: 2,284
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    Samster wrote: »
    Let's just for argument's sake a romantic elemnt is introduced between the Dr & Clara, how icky would it be if the next actor is significantly older?

    'Icky'? Why would that be 'icky'? The Doctor only gets a few minutes older when he regenerates, how that that make it any more 'icky'? Not being a trifle ageist, are you?
  • gingerfreakgingerfreak Posts: 523
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    It's a really interesting concept to ponder.

    Although I really liked Ten and Rose individually, the relationship thing felt - as someone (shrimps?) mentioned - a bit 'teen romance'.

    Whereas I've never been the biggest fan of the 11-River romance, it always felt a little forced to me, until TNOTD. I think with Matt getting a chance to really imply the age and responsibilities of the Doctor, and the very understated end to their relationship demonstrated perfectly two mature (for their species) people who know it's not all about declarations of undying love and demonstrative displays of affection, rather those unsaid but understood connections between two people who utterly understand and love each other. A proper adult relationship, in contrast to Ten-Rose.

    Where would an 11-Clara fit in here? 11's excised the ghost of the ex, so I think he'll be able to move on. And if Clara keeps the memories of all her other lives, she's going to be his equal. So I'd be cool about it in that case, and after the way Moff dealt with the River goodbye I feel he'll deal with it very well (no slight on the fantastic RTD).

    Of course, as a 41-year-old just embarking on a new relationship I may be projecting a little!
  • SamsterSamster Posts: 382
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    Dogmatix wrote: »
    'Icky'? Why would that be 'icky'? The Doctor only gets a few minutes older when he regenerates, how that that make it any more 'icky'? Not being a trifle ageist, are you?

    Age'ist if you wish to call it that. Personally I would find it akward to watch a young looking girl being "in love" with someone who LOOKS in their 50s+
  • KezMKezM Posts: 1,397
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    people who know it's not all about declarations of undying love and demonstrative displays of affection, rather those unsaid but understood connections between two people who utterly understand and love each other. A proper adult relationship, in contrast to Ten-Rose.

    Wow that is interesting you said that:

    People who know it is not all about declartions of love undying love but connections between two people who utterly understand? Have I got you right?

    You mean like two people who never once say they love each other apart from at what they think is the very last moment they are ever going to see each other - and then only one actually says it? Two people who don't have to say it because "oh, she knows."? The kind of connection where one puts herself in peril in infinite peril to get back to protect him from an "immortal god"? The kind of connection where he gives up his own incarnation to save her?

    The kind of understanding between two people "where I can see everything, everything that ever was, and everything that ever will be." "That's what I see all the time. And doesn't it drive you crazy?" That kind of understanding where one would rather stay with in danger of the "devil" than escape with the other because "I know him and he isn't dead?" or risk the wrath of the "devil" because "If I believe in one thing I believe in her"? Or the kind of understanding where one sends the other to be with her family rather than selfishly keeping her by his side - twice? Or where she can't bare to see him alone again?

    Strange that?!
  • 16caerhos16caerhos Posts: 2,533
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    You could look at it as another silly, generic and romantic subplot, but it isn't though, is it? She jumped into his timeline and saved every version of him. He's bound to see her differently compared to past companions.

    They have a bond and a connection now only they can understand. It's only natural for him to develop feelings for her and vice versa.

    That's my take on it anyway.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,379
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    It's funny to think that Clara saved 10's life at some point so he could be in 'love' with Rose so if it wasn't for Clara then the greatest love story of Doctor Who might never have happened.

    In the prequal video he said Clara I'd perfect for me but he basically he couldn't trust her till he knew who she was and now he does so who knows what Moffat will do. I just hope now we have proper Clara that they don't make her into a doe eyed school girl (using the term not a referral to age) like Martha was for a bit and keep her as Lancashire sass.
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    There's an absolute world of difference between flirting and romance. Take it from a married man with a female best friend.

    His re-affirmation to River clinches it for me, I'm afraid. If Clara ever had romantic interest in him, it should be dead in the water now.
  • GilaGoraGilaGora Posts: 1,191
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    NO! It took me a while to get over the horror show that was Ten/Rose and I don't want a repeat storyline. The Doctor is an old man and Clara is young enough to be his great granddaughter.
  • TalmaTalma Posts: 10,520
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  • claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    Thrombin wrote: »
    I disagree. That was a classic case of the Cyber Planner pulling on real emotions but Clara knowing it's the sort of thing the Doctor would never admit to.

    Exactly. Neil Gaiman himself confirmed in interview that the Cyber Planner was simply mirroring the Doctor's own thoughts and emotions.
    16caerhos wrote: »
    You could look at it as another silly, generic and romantic subplot, but it isn't though, is it? She jumped into his timeline and saved every version of him. He's bound to see her differently compared to past companions.

    That's what I think makes it potentially very interesting. Clara has been through this incomparable experience, she knows the Doctor's greatest secret, she knows his name, she knows his entire life. Clara has been there for him in a way no one else ever has - she gets it in a way that no other human ever could. Emotionally, there's a lot of potential there.
  • Granny McSmithGranny McSmith Posts: 19,622
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    KezM wrote: »
    Wow that is interesting you said that:

    People who know it is not all about declartions of love undying love but connections between two people who utterly understand? Have I got you right?

    You mean like two people who never once say they love each other apart from at what they think is the very last moment they are ever going to see each other - and then only one actually says it? Two people who don't have to say it because "oh, she knows."? The kind of connection where one puts herself in peril in infinite peril to get back to protect him from an "immortal god"? The kind of connection where he gives up his own incarnation to save her?

    The kind of understanding between two people "where I can see everything, everything that ever was, and everything that ever will be." "That's what I see all the time. And doesn't it drive you crazy?" That kind of understanding where one would rather stay with in danger of the "devil" than escape with the other because "I know him and he isn't dead?" or risk the wrath of the "devil" because "If I believe in one thing I believe in her"? Or the kind of understanding where one sends the other to be with her family rather than selfishly keeping her by his side - twice? Or where she can't bare to see him alone again?

    Strange that?!

    That's just the way I see it myself.:)

    His re-affirmation to River clinches it for me, I'm afraid. If Clara ever had romantic interest in him, it should be dead in the water now.

    I think Time Lords "move on" more quickly than humans. He loved River, but she is dead - leaving the way clear for Clara.

    Of course, as a time traveller, there is a sense in which she is not dead to him - but the same goes for any of his relationships; except those with other, female Time Lords, who are timelocked.





    Of course, as a 41-year-old just embarking on a new relationship I may be projecting a little!

    I wish you all the best and much happiness with that.:)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 171
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    Shrimps wrote: »
    No thank you!


    I have no trouble with the Doctor having a relationship, but is it too much to ask that a being who's centuries old is with a grown woman? .

    Agreed. I have enough of a problem with the fact that the modern dr continually picks up young girls to travel with, without him 'romancing' them as well. For a supposedly smart guy he doesn't really seem to like picking up smart people - the Russian professor, the Dougray Scott character, the Brigadier's granddaughter - wouldn't they all have been more intellectually stimulating than his normal choice of dolly bird?

    Unfortunately I think there is a real chemistry between Matt and JLC that they will choose to have express itself on screen. There seems to be an audience expectation of on screen romance between leads, since at least the X-Files, which is about as far back as my watching of TV series goes.

    And to the person above who suggested that my antipathy towards a Dr / companion relationship reflected on my own inability to 'get girls', I'm not going to go into Nick Clegg territory here, but I do alright, cheers for your concern. I don't however get to run away from many monsters, or interact with many alien races, so I do therefore prefer a show that focusses on that.
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