I know exactly what I am talking about! Non-humans have been known to preserve the lives of other species. There have been cases of dolphins protecting divers from sharks and Orcas. Heifers have also been known to protect somebody that has fallen (farmer, rambler, etc) from aggressive bulls. If I did a bit more digging in my memory and on Google, then I could find more examples like the ones I have just given. And humans are the ONLY species to have made countless other species extinct. Humans are the only species that will kill in the name of entertainment. I also asked for proof (irrefutable proof by the way) that humans are more important. So far you haven't given me any!
Both completely incorrect, of course. Cats wiped out an entire species (the Stephens Island wren) and that's just an example off the top of my head. Most species that have ever existed became extinct and this was not always due to human intervention.
I have provided evidence that we value human life more highly than animal life. In fact, it's rather obvious to anyone who's given it some thought. You're just too fixed in your bizarre beliefs to realise it.
I've heard parents refer to their own kids as "little shits", because you know some time they just are. Much like adults are often "bitches" or "bastards" or "*****" etc.
So with respect, I don't think that I'm the one who needs to get a grip
So your justification for calling children you don't even know "little shits" is because you've overheard other parents say it to their child? Those are the people who aren't fit to be parents, and if that's what you deem as an acceptable means of keeping a child under control - swearing at them - then I'd be inclined to believe that you're nowhere near fit to be a parent either.
Children should be allowed to go pretty much anywhere. However, their guardians should also be in full control of them at all times, so that any inappropriate behaviour is halted quickly, or where this is not possible, the children should be removed from the situation for the convenience of the rest of general public.
I've taken my child to restaurants from babyhood. But, I've always accepted that I might have to forgo my own meal if my child's behaviour became anti-social as it would have been my responsibility to mitigate any disturbance of other people, as much as is possible. Places like restaurants and libraries should be quiet and peaceful and children shouldn't be allowed to interrupt other's enjoyment.
Places like general shops and supermarkets have less of a requirement for near silence though, and the general public ought to be tolerant of children who are not behaving completely impeccably whilst parents should also do their best to make sure the children are as well behaved as possible. Tantrums and naughty behaviour cannot be completely avoided, and supermarkets are boring for children. As long as there is no safety issue, I think it's reasonable for people to be expected to tolerant of children acting like children.
Banning children from places only makes it harder for them to learn the social norms of how to behave in different places. Children running around in coffee shops disturbs me, not because I don't like children or think they should be 'seen and not heard' but because I am fearful of the consequences of spilled hot drinks.
All kids play up. All kids test boundaries. It's how they learn. It is how the parent reacts to teach the child how to behave that is important. The dad ignoring the child is unacceptable to me, she is his responsibility whether she's just badly behaved or had ADHD/ASD or whatever. Don't blame the kid, blame the dad.
I've got 2 kids, 7 and 9 yr old. Yes they have run in a shop, and then I have pulled them up on it and told them off. I don't ignore it, and I explain why running in a shop isn't acceptable.
I agree with this.
I have an 8 year old girl and 2 boys aged 7 and 5. Believe me 2 small boys together can be a nightmare if both are feeling hyper! I would never ignore bad behaviour though.
My friend has a 7 year old son and he is awful. She rarely tells him off for his behaviour and if she does he has a full on meltdown which then leads to her backing down. I actually think she is scared to reprimand him. With kids sometimes it's a battle of wills and by failing to appropriately discipline them you are creating a rod for your own back. He calls her "stupid idiot" and things like that and she ignores it. My son tried it on me once after hearing the other boy say it and I dealt with it. He hasn't done it since.
The trouble is if there is a dispute between my son and her son I ask what happened. My son will admit if he has done something wrong but hers will point blank deny it. It's so frustrating because My son feels unfairly treated when he gets into trouble but his friend gets away with murder.
That works both ways though. Some parents (and it is only some) treat public spaces as if they are their children's personal playrooms and can't understand why anyone should object to them tearing around the place tripping people up, screaming in restaurants so that other diners can't enjoy their meals, and basically taking over and annoying other people.
That's right, which is why I never took a "side" in this debate. We all have to be tolerant and compromise, else society completely breaks down. That's the social pact.
Sadly it's been forgotten by too many, it seems, probably in part due to technology allowing everyone to isolate themselves.
People who complain about packed public transport are a classic example - hello! You're part of the reason why it's packed. We all are.
Sometimes I see people on the tube needlessly "defending" their personal space. Don't want your personal space invaded? Then don't use the tube. We're all part of the seething mass of humanity, at least try to be tolerant and make it a little bit better for everyone.
So your justification for calling children you don't even know "little shits" is because you've overheard other parents say it to their child? Those are the people who aren't fit to be parents, and if that's what you deem as an acceptable means of keeping a child under control - swearing at them - then I'd be inclined to believe that you're nowhere near fit to be a parent either.
Erm, where did I say it was acceptable to swear at children? And if you'd have read my previous post correctly you'd have seen that what I actually said is that I've heard parents refer to their own children as "little shits". It's not really the same thing as directly calling their child a little shit is it?
Although I thought that would have been obvious and I certainly didn't think I'd have to explain the difference in detail?
As for making assumptions about whether or I'd be a suitable parent, I'd say that's kind of hypocritical given your hostile reaction when I apparently dared to make an assumption about you....
Erm, where did I say it was acceptable to swear at children? And if you'd have read my previous post correctly you'd have seen that what I actually said is that I've heard parents refer to their own children as "little shits". It's not really the same thing as directly calling their child a little shit is it?
Although I thought that would have been obvious and I certainly didn't think I'd have to explain the difference in detail?
As for making assumptions about whether or I'd be a suitable parent, I'd say that's kind of hypocritical given your hostile reaction when I apparently dared to make an assumption about you....
I don't think you're in any position to pull anyone up over hypocrisy. The entire thread is based upon assumptions you've made about a family you spent less than a fraction of your day in the company of, and then you reacted in a far more hostile fashion than I did when posters made assumptions about yourself. Again, you seem capable of giving out criticism but when it is turned on you, you get far too defensive.
We as posters are only getting a picture of the family based on what you have posted, and the aggressive manner in which you refer to the child in your opening post has done you no favours at all in my eyes. If you were starting this thread with the expectation that everyone would be on your side, offering you sympathy and hot beverages then you are sadly mistaken. Consider it a wake-up call if you like, a lesson that the world isn't specially tailored to suit your own cosy existence.
I put it to you, as I mentioned before: would you have the nerve to refer to the child as a "little shit" in front of the parents? In fact would you have repeated your opening rant, word for word at them? No, you probably wouldn't because of the, in my view, justified reaction you'd get from them, and it certainly wouldn't have been a case of them being precious over their child. Perhaps if you had raised the issue with the parents politely and had received a hostile response, then you might get some sympathy from me, but from my viewpoint you've made a mountain out of a molehill.
I don't think you're in any position to pull anyone up over hypocrisy. The entire thread is based upon assumptions you've made about a family you spent less than a fraction of your day in the company of, and then you reacted in a far more hostile fashion than I did when posters made assumptions about yourself. Again, you seem capable of giving out criticism but when it is turned on you, you get far too defensive.
We as posters are only getting a picture of the family based on what you have posted, and the aggressive manner in which you refer to the child in your opening post has done you no favours at all in my eyes. If you were starting this thread with the expectation that everyone would be on your side, offering you sympathy and hot beverages then you are sadly mistaken. Consider it a wake-up call if you like, a lesson that the world isn't specially tailored to suit your own cosy existence.
Erm, no I've come in here and taken the criticism head on. I certainly didn't expect everybody to agree with me.
And why do you keep harping on about the "family"? the only member of the child's family there was the dad, and he's the only person mentioned in the OP.
It's also human nature to make assumptions about people based on chance encounters. Can you honestly say you've not done the same? I highly doubt it.
And why do you keep harping on about the "family"? the only member of the child's family there was the dad, and he's the only person mentioned in the OP.
It's also human nature to make assumptions about people based on chance encounters. Can you honestly say you've not done the same? I highly doubt it.
Well, the father and child are still a "family" aren't they? Even if the mum isn't there.
Yes, I may make assumptions, as I've done in this thread (although entirely justified if you ask me) although I wouldn't be so vile as to refer to people in such a derogatory manner, especially children, unless I had very good reason.
I don't think you're in any position to pull anyone up over hypocrisy. The entire thread is based upon assumptions you've made about a family you spent less than a fraction of your day in the company of, and then you reacted in a far more hostile fashion than I did when posters made assumptions about yourself. Again, you seem capable of giving out criticism but when it is turned on you, you get far too defensive.
We as posters are only getting a picture of the family based on what you have posted, and the aggressive manner in which you refer to the child in your opening post has done you no favours at all in my eyes. If you were starting this thread with the expectation that everyone would be on your side, offering you sympathy and hot beverages then you are sadly mistaken. Consider it a wake-up call if you like, a lesson that the world isn't specially tailored to suit your own cosy existence.
I put it to you, as I mentioned before: would you have the nerve to refer to the child as a "little shit" in front of the parents? In fact would you have repeated your opening rant, word for word at them? No, you probably wouldn't because of the, in my view, justified reaction you'd get from them, and it certainly wouldn't have been a case of them being precious over their child. Perhaps if you had raised the issue with the parents politely and had received a hostile response, then you might get some sympathy from me, but from my viewpoint you've made a mountain out of a molehill.
I thought one of the purposes of a forum like this was that we could sound off about things we have to swallow and say nothing about in real life.
Had another child trauma experience
Stuck waiting in the benefits office and there are THREE young girls running around like crazy. I mean they were at it for nearly the entire hour I was waiting. And they were being very hyper, chasing each other, knocking each other down, knocking things about, running into people and screaming. I even spotted them running with a plastic cup of water. And something must have happened because I saw them walk back to the waiting area with one of the women who was with them (the other was being seen) and one of the security guards was having a very stern word. It seems like they had spilt the water on something or someone. About 5 minutes later one of the little girls spoke to the woman who was speaking to an advisor and mentioned she was going to get arrested.
Was a MASSIVE relief when the horrible little kids and their inattentive guardians left.
For the record there were a few other kids with parents there and I had no problem with any of them.
Certain allowances should be made for children who are running wild but not for the parents who stand or sit and let it happen. Like it or not, there are a lot of lazy parents out there who find it easier to ignore their little angels while everyone else gets annoyed. I don't blame young children for their behaviour and anyone who knows their child can tell when they are going to kick off. Taking them outside as soon as they threaten to start and nipping it in the bud is bound to be more effective than allowing them to get worked up into a frenzy followed by a long calming down period. I certainly couldn't enjoy a meal or a shopping trip knowing my kids were ruining the enjoyment of others.
Only arrogant people think that humans are more important. Provide evidence that humans are actually the be all and end all then you might have a solid foundation with which to base your claims.
Humans are pretty much much top of the food chain, but dogs make great companions when out hunting, mine happily retrieve birds I've shot.
My local (and small) public library has a children's section which is fantastic, children and parents (grand parents in our case) love going in there. Yes it can be louder than the 'real' library but the children are growing, learning, expanding...give them a bit of space.
I was in a supermarket last week and saw two children running amok but credit to their mum she told them to stop and they did. On the school run there are a couple of mums that just let their kids do what they want but in general parents will tell them to stop.
I was in a supermarket last week and saw two children running amok but credit to their mum she told them to stop and they did. On the school run there are a couple of mums that just let their kids do what they want but in general parents will tell them to stop.
Good to read something genuinely positive in this thread for a change.
Be grateful, the little girl could have been letting off fireworks:D
My H and I were at a petrol station when a gang of lads across the road chased some girls and threw fireworks at them. I jumped out of the car and screamed at them to STOP right now before they blew us all up. It was one of the most frightening experience of my life.
My H and I were at a petrol station when a gang of lads across the road chased some girls and threw fireworks at them. I jumped out of the car and screamed at them to STOP right now before they blew us all up. It was one of the most frightening experience of my life.
I agree with Vodka Drinka on the majority of all that has been put across, there are some very valid points and I have also seen examples of the issues.
Yes kids aren't perfect but it needs to be dealt with effectively, now (Apologies to anyone who genuinely has children with autism and such) I believe too easily parents bullshit people with behavior and attention syndromes that have been plucked from nowhere to counter or mask the child's poor behavior and poor or ineffective parenting.
There are a number of posters here who are either on a high horse with no children or on the frontline defending their children, most of us experience this situation and sometimes it may be autism or a GENUINE syndrome which we are unaware of and feel bad about if/when we find out.
This poses another question, could genuine syndromes be handled better in shops? Also if there is a spare parent or babysitter then they should be utilised, I see very little point in preferring the child to go to the shop with you -no point (some cases can be excused but a supermarket shop isn't for example).
There are some people reading this shocked, we'll they never! Let's not be hitler and make all posters be the same now...
Rubbish. I have spent a small fortune on my dogs recently. As for comparing dogs to kids. Did you know dogs have the same sentience as younger kids? To me and many others, dogs are our babies. I have no intentions of having children and am perfectly happy with my dogs. I am sick of not being able to take them into shops or restaurants. Another thing is that countless dogs have been stolen outside shops as people are often left with no other choice than to leave them tied up outside while they do their shopping. Even leaving a dog unattended for a couple of minutes is enough time for somebody to take a dog. They are usually taken to be sold to other people or to be used as bait dogs for fighting. It is an absolute disgrace that dogs aren't allowed into enclosed public areas. A lot of them are better behaved and cleaner than some kids are. At least there are countries that allow them into places like shopping malls. The Netherlands is one such country and they don't seem to have any problems with doing so. This country is so anti-dog it's unbelievable!
As for me being 'stupid' comparing a dog to a kid. What is it that makes kids so special?
GibsonGirl, you have a bite (maybe a pun).
Why should a dog be allowed in a shop to sniff about and intimidate others? I think you should watch emmerdale and rethink what you are saying before coming back.
Dogs cannot be controlled and do not share the human nature which human do in a human centric are that humans have defined, if two humans fight generally another human will stop it or take care of the situation however if two dogs fight there is no control of this as they are completely different to us!
I have a fear of dogs and have been attacked a number of times by them (don't bother replying about the owner or my view of the situation or anything to do with a/your/most dogs being good or soft, it's in their nature.) and I clearly would like dogs to be removed from public areas where there are no pet facilities or reasons for them being there.
Why take a dog to the shops? Or to a general public place, I'm struggling to see past the stupidity so I'll stop here before I go postal.
This was a huge bugbear of mine when I worked in retail. Parents seemed to think we were running a day care centre. The kids run riot, pulled stock from shelves, sometimes even smashing things in the process, whilst parents pondered over which items to buy. Then my boss would walk around the corner and I'd get in trouble for having a messy section.
Comments
Both completely incorrect, of course. Cats wiped out an entire species (the Stephens Island wren) and that's just an example off the top of my head. Most species that have ever existed became extinct and this was not always due to human intervention.
I have provided evidence that we value human life more highly than animal life. In fact, it's rather obvious to anyone who's given it some thought. You're just too fixed in your bizarre beliefs to realise it.
So your justification for calling children you don't even know "little shits" is because you've overheard other parents say it to their child? Those are the people who aren't fit to be parents, and if that's what you deem as an acceptable means of keeping a child under control - swearing at them - then I'd be inclined to believe that you're nowhere near fit to be a parent either.
Totally agree with all of this!
I agree with this.
I have an 8 year old girl and 2 boys aged 7 and 5. Believe me 2 small boys together can be a nightmare if both are feeling hyper! I would never ignore bad behaviour though.
My friend has a 7 year old son and he is awful. She rarely tells him off for his behaviour and if she does he has a full on meltdown which then leads to her backing down. I actually think she is scared to reprimand him. With kids sometimes it's a battle of wills and by failing to appropriately discipline them you are creating a rod for your own back. He calls her "stupid idiot" and things like that and she ignores it. My son tried it on me once after hearing the other boy say it and I dealt with it. He hasn't done it since.
The trouble is if there is a dispute between my son and her son I ask what happened. My son will admit if he has done something wrong but hers will point blank deny it. It's so frustrating because My son feels unfairly treated when he gets into trouble but his friend gets away with murder.
That's right, which is why I never took a "side" in this debate. We all have to be tolerant and compromise, else society completely breaks down. That's the social pact.
Sadly it's been forgotten by too many, it seems, probably in part due to technology allowing everyone to isolate themselves.
People who complain about packed public transport are a classic example - hello! You're part of the reason why it's packed. We all are.
Sometimes I see people on the tube needlessly "defending" their personal space. Don't want your personal space invaded? Then don't use the tube. We're all part of the seething mass of humanity, at least try to be tolerant and make it a little bit better for everyone.
Erm, where did I say it was acceptable to swear at children?
Although I thought that would have been obvious and I certainly didn't think I'd have to explain the difference in detail?
As for making assumptions about whether or I'd be a suitable parent, I'd say that's kind of hypocritical given your hostile reaction when I apparently dared to make an assumption about you....
I don't think you're in any position to pull anyone up over hypocrisy. The entire thread is based upon assumptions you've made about a family you spent less than a fraction of your day in the company of, and then you reacted in a far more hostile fashion than I did when posters made assumptions about yourself. Again, you seem capable of giving out criticism but when it is turned on you, you get far too defensive.
We as posters are only getting a picture of the family based on what you have posted, and the aggressive manner in which you refer to the child in your opening post has done you no favours at all in my eyes. If you were starting this thread with the expectation that everyone would be on your side, offering you sympathy and hot beverages then you are sadly mistaken. Consider it a wake-up call if you like, a lesson that the world isn't specially tailored to suit your own cosy existence.
I put it to you, as I mentioned before: would you have the nerve to refer to the child as a "little shit" in front of the parents? In fact would you have repeated your opening rant, word for word at them? No, you probably wouldn't because of the, in my view, justified reaction you'd get from them, and it certainly wouldn't have been a case of them being precious over their child. Perhaps if you had raised the issue with the parents politely and had received a hostile response, then you might get some sympathy from me, but from my viewpoint you've made a mountain out of a molehill.
Erm, no I've come in here and taken the criticism head on. I certainly didn't expect everybody to agree with me.
And why do you keep harping on about the "family"?
It's also human nature to make assumptions about people based on chance encounters. Can you honestly say you've not done the same? I highly doubt it.
Well, the father and child are still a "family" aren't they? Even if the mum isn't there.
Yes, I may make assumptions, as I've done in this thread (although entirely justified if you ask me) although I wouldn't be so vile as to refer to people in such a derogatory manner, especially children, unless I had very good reason.
I thought one of the purposes of a forum like this was that we could sound off about things we have to swallow and say nothing about in real life.
Stuck waiting in the benefits office and there are THREE young girls running around like crazy. I mean they were at it for nearly the entire hour I was waiting. And they were being very hyper, chasing each other, knocking each other down, knocking things about, running into people and screaming. I even spotted them running with a plastic cup of water. And something must have happened because I saw them walk back to the waiting area with one of the women who was with them (the other was being seen) and one of the security guards was having a very stern word. It seems like they had spilt the water on something or someone. About 5 minutes later one of the little girls spoke to the woman who was speaking to an advisor and mentioned she was going to get arrested.
Was a MASSIVE relief when the horrible little kids and their inattentive guardians left.
For the record there were a few other kids with parents there and I had no problem with any of them.
Humans are pretty much much top of the food chain, but dogs make great companions when out hunting, mine happily retrieve birds I've shot.
My local (and small) public library has a children's section which is fantastic, children and parents (grand parents in our case) love going in there. Yes it can be louder than the 'real' library but the children are growing, learning, expanding...give them a bit of space.
My H and I were at a petrol station when a gang of lads across the road chased some girls and threw fireworks at them. I jumped out of the car and screamed at them to STOP right now before they blew us all up. It was one of the most frightening experience of my life.
Yes kids aren't perfect but it needs to be dealt with effectively, now (Apologies to anyone who genuinely has children with autism and such) I believe too easily parents bullshit people with behavior and attention syndromes that have been plucked from nowhere to counter or mask the child's poor behavior and poor or ineffective parenting.
There are a number of posters here who are either on a high horse with no children or on the frontline defending their children, most of us experience this situation and sometimes it may be autism or a GENUINE syndrome which we are unaware of and feel bad about if/when we find out.
This poses another question, could genuine syndromes be handled better in shops? Also if there is a spare parent or babysitter then they should be utilised, I see very little point in preferring the child to go to the shop with you -no point (some cases can be excused but a supermarket shop isn't for example).
There are some people reading this shocked, we'll they never! Let's not be hitler and make all posters be the same now...
GibsonGirl, you have a bite (maybe a pun).
Why should a dog be allowed in a shop to sniff about and intimidate others? I think you should watch emmerdale and rethink what you are saying before coming back.
Dogs cannot be controlled and do not share the human nature which human do in a human centric are that humans have defined, if two humans fight generally another human will stop it or take care of the situation however if two dogs fight there is no control of this as they are completely different to us!
I have a fear of dogs and have been attacked a number of times by them (don't bother replying about the owner or my view of the situation or anything to do with a/your/most dogs being good or soft, it's in their nature.) and I clearly would like dogs to be removed from public areas where there are no pet facilities or reasons for them being there.
Why take a dog to the shops? Or to a general public place, I'm struggling to see past the stupidity so I'll stop here before I go postal.
Also that's not even offensive, all I can see is a load of panto characters at a laptop going "ooh I say"...
That was in quote to you, FYI I was referencing the little shit comment