Oh come on, excuses, excuses. Why not just not use your mobile in any way while in control of your vehicle?
Same reason as I don't NOT use my radio when driving for fear of it being a distraction. I can drive and listen to music safely, same as I can sit in a stationary vehicle and browse my phone safely. I don't NEED to do either, I just find I can, safely.
There are already more than enough potential distractions in vehicles without adding to them with yet more distractions that we can prevent. Pull over when safe to do so, park up and use it then!
BiB. Ok, I pull over, bring my car to a stop, apply the handbrake, use my phone, then pull away when finished.
BANG!!! I just smashed into a cyclist that I didn't notice.
Obviously that would never happen with me because I'd check before pulling away but that so-called 'correct' hypothetical scenario is equally as dangerous as my genuine, actual scenario of sitting in traffic with my handbrake on while browsing my phone, assuming that the driver fails to do their basic mirror and over-the-shoulder checks.
Same reason as I don't NOT use my radio when driving for fear of it being a distraction. I can drive and listen to music safely, same as I can sit in a stationary vehicle and browse my phone safely. I don't NEED to do either, I just find I can, safely.
BiB. Ok, I pull over, bring my car to a stop, apply the handbrake, use my phone, then pull away when finished.
BANG!!! I just smashed into a cyclist that I didn't notice.
Obviously that would never happen with me because I'd check before pulling away but that so-called 'correct' hypothetical scenario is equally as dangerous as my genuine, actual scenario of sitting in traffic with my handbrake on while browsing my phone, assuming that the driver fails to do their basic mirror and over-the-shoulder checks.
It wouldn't happen with anyone, because pulling over when safe to do so to use their phone is the hallmark of someone who is considerate to other road users and who would check for them when as free as possible from distraction, and at no risk of suddenly realising that the lights started to change, before doing anything. Plenty of time for him to pick his time to msm.
On the other hand, there's that cyclist sat in your blind spot who sneaked up on you between the lines of traffic while you were looking at your phone, at the very moment the impatient driver behind you beeped his horn at you for not immediately noticing the lights start to change and, having already done your checks, being ready to move off...
It wouldn't happen with anyone, because pulling over when safe to do so to use their phone is the hallmark of someone who is considerate to other road users and who would check for them when as free as possible from distraction, and at no risk of failing to notice the lights start to change, before doing anything. On the other hand, there's that cyclist sat in your blind spot who sneaked up on you between the lines of traffic while you were looking at your phone...
You seem to have conflated consideration with good driving ability. Being courteous and pulling over to use the phone does not mean you automatically do not check your mirrors/blind spot before pulling out.
There is NO risk of me failing to not notice the lights changing, simply because I have the ability to look at the lights (or the car in front if it's a particularly long queue) then glance back at my screen and repeat until the lights change.
As for this stealth cyclist who sneaked up along side me, providing I don't pull away at an angle, I think I'm pretty safe in assuming no accident will occur, unless said cyclist chose to pull in front on me suddenly or encroach onto my lane. It's a moot point anyway as I'd have seen him approaching when checking my mirrors.
EDIT: also, what's inconsiderate about sitting in stationary traffic while checking my phone? Who am I inconveniencing (bearing in mind I've already stated there are no delays to me pulling away when the lights change)?
There is NO risk of me failing to not notice the lights changing, simply because I have the ability to look at the lights (or the car in front if it's a particularly long queue) then glance back at my screen and repeat until the lights change.
As for this stealth cyclist who sneaked up along side me, providing I don't pull away at an angle, I think I'm pretty safe in assuming no accident will occur, unless said cyclist chose to pull in front on me suddenly or encroach onto my lane. It's a moot point anyway as I'd have seen him approaching when checking my mirrors.
EDIT: also, what's inconsiderate about sitting in stationary traffic while checking my phone? Who am I inconveniencing (bearing in mind I've already stated there are no delays to me pulling away when the lights change)?
I am referring to ordinary mortals here, ordinary car and lorry drivers who at the moment the impatient driver behind them beeps at them for not immediately noticing the lights start to change and, having not already done their checks, rush them before moving away. That's when your hidden cyclist (or someone) will occasionally get missed.
Your always excellent observational and awareness skills are not a good reason to allow everyone to behave in the same way, because most of them aren't as good as you. Yes you can always find occasions when no harm is likely to come to anyone if you check the phone, but where do you draw the line? Therein lies the problem and a blanket ban as now is the safest way to do it.
I am referring to ordinary mortals here, ordinary car and lorry drivers who at the moment the impatient driver behind them beeps at them for not immediately noticing the lights start to change and, having not already done their checks, rush them before moving away.
Ah, I see where the confusion lies. I'm not one of those normal, muggle drivers hence the situation of being beeped at for missing the lights changing would never happen to me.
Ah, I see where the confusion lies. I'm not one of those normal, muggle drivers hence the situation of being beeped at for missing the lights changing would never happen to me.
I added:
Your always excellent observational and awareness skills are not a good reason to allow everyone to behave in the same way, because most of them aren't as good as you. Yes you can always find occasions when no harm is likely to come to anyone if you check the phone, but where do you draw the line? Therein lies the problem and a blanket ban as now is the safest way to do it.
Same reason as I don't NOT use my radio when driving for fear of it being a distraction. I can drive and listen to music safely, same as I can sit in a stationary vehicle and browse my phone safely. I don't NEED to do either, I just find I can, safely.
BiB. Ok, I pull over, bring my car to a stop, apply the handbrake, use my phone, then pull away when finished.
BANG!!! I just smashed into a cyclist that I didn't notice.
Obviously that would never happen with me because I'd check before pulling away but that so-called 'correct' hypothetical scenario is equally as dangerous as my genuine, actual scenario of sitting in traffic with my handbrake on while browsing my phone, assuming that the driver fails to do their basic mirror and over-the-shoulder checks.
Well the law does not think you are a safe driver to use your hand held phone while at a set of traffic lights, and that is what counts and if you were caught you would be fined and given points. You could go to court and and try to fight your case but you WILL lose anyway. And if you did pull over bring your car to a stop, apply the handbrake and use your phone you would still be braking the law. As the law states It is illegal to use a mobile phone held in the hand while driving or while stopped with the engine on. So unless you have turned your engine off you will still be fined
Great little strawman you've just built here, but as you're quoting my post, it would be better if you stick to the subject I'm referring to, i.e. browsing on your phone while sitting in traffic. I'm not talking about talking on your phone. I'm not talking about browsing while driving. I'm talking about sitting in a stationary queue of traffic, browsing on my phone, not moving anywhere, still being able to see when the lights change.
Let me ask you: who would you rather have drive your young children around (in the role of carer etc): someone who's obsessed with their smartphone and is likely to spend every possible moment on it like you do, or someone who doesn't care for them?
Let's say I'm last in the queue and an HGV rapidly approaches. Whether I'm chatting on the phone, updating my Facebook, having a shave or checking my mirrors every 3 seconds, there's bugger-all I can do if Mr HGV driving is rapidly approaching and doesn't stop in time. Me browsing my phone has no influence on this hypothetical situation.
The options are limited, but they exist, depending on how much space you've left in front, or whether it's possible to pull over to the left or right, or just jump out of the car. At worst, you will at least have time to say your prayers.
When I come across an unexpected queue on a bend in a main road, I often stop short leaving a large gap, so as to provide an earlier warning to traffic approaching behind, then I can move forward and close the gap. But I would imagine someone keen to see what that latest response might be on their smartphone, would rather just stop and concentrate on that.
Smartphones and cars just don't mix, whether they happen to be stationary at that instant or not. Eventually it will all be built-in, head-up and hands-free, which is an improvement, but not an independent hand-held device.
For me, lights change or traffic moves = put down phone and focus on driving.
Put the phone down, still switched on, on the passenger seat or dashboard? Which is more likely to preoccupy you when the next notification comes: what the message might possibly be, or what the traffic is doing? (BTW would you be happy with your airline pilot being engrossed with his iPhone when on auto-pilot? If not then why not, since he can put forward all the same arguments as you?)
Ah, I see where the confusion lies. I'm not one of those normal, muggle drivers hence the situation of being beeped at for missing the lights changing would never happen to me.
As far as the law is concerned you are classed as the same as everyone else.
Your always excellent observational and awareness skills are not a good reason to allow everyone to behave in the same way, because most of them aren't as good as you. Yes you can always find occasions when no harm is likely to come to anyone if you check the phone, but where do you draw the line? Therein lies the problem and a blanket ban as now is the safest way to do it.
Can't argue with that. We always have to work to the lowest common denominator hence banning things on the basis that some clueless, inconsiderate fools have to be told or forced to stop doing something whereas the rest moderate their own behaviour.
I shall end this discussion saying that I know what I'm doing is illegal, I know that other people may not be able to cope with phone browsing + pulling away from the lights in a timely, safe manner, but I'll continue doing what I'm doing and rue the day I ever get caught. If that does happen though, I'll graciously start a thread to allow everyone to point and laugh at me...
Stupid to suggest it, as we simply don't have enough jail space.....and with all these cut backs and the general reluctance to invest in jails, this idea is destined to stay on the shelf forever.
Comments
BiB. Ok, I pull over, bring my car to a stop, apply the handbrake, use my phone, then pull away when finished.
BANG!!! I just smashed into a cyclist that I didn't notice.
Obviously that would never happen with me because I'd check before pulling away but that so-called 'correct' hypothetical scenario is equally as dangerous as my genuine, actual scenario of sitting in traffic with my handbrake on while browsing my phone, assuming that the driver fails to do their basic mirror and over-the-shoulder checks.
It wouldn't happen with anyone, because pulling over when safe to do so to use their phone is the hallmark of someone who is considerate to other road users and who would check for them when as free as possible from distraction, and at no risk of suddenly realising that the lights started to change, before doing anything. Plenty of time for him to pick his time to msm.
On the other hand, there's that cyclist sat in your blind spot who sneaked up on you between the lines of traffic while you were looking at your phone, at the very moment the impatient driver behind you beeped his horn at you for not immediately noticing the lights start to change and, having already done your checks, being ready to move off...
You seem to have conflated consideration with good driving ability. Being courteous and pulling over to use the phone does not mean you automatically do not check your mirrors/blind spot before pulling out.
There is NO risk of me failing to not notice the lights changing, simply because I have the ability to look at the lights (or the car in front if it's a particularly long queue) then glance back at my screen and repeat until the lights change.
As for this stealth cyclist who sneaked up along side me, providing I don't pull away at an angle, I think I'm pretty safe in assuming no accident will occur, unless said cyclist chose to pull in front on me suddenly or encroach onto my lane. It's a moot point anyway as I'd have seen him approaching when checking my mirrors.
EDIT: also, what's inconsiderate about sitting in stationary traffic while checking my phone? Who am I inconveniencing (bearing in mind I've already stated there are no delays to me pulling away when the lights change)?
I am referring to ordinary mortals here, ordinary car and lorry drivers who at the moment the impatient driver behind them beeps at them for not immediately noticing the lights start to change and, having not already done their checks, rush them before moving away. That's when your hidden cyclist (or someone) will occasionally get missed.
Your always excellent observational and awareness skills are not a good reason to allow everyone to behave in the same way, because most of them aren't as good as you. Yes you can always find occasions when no harm is likely to come to anyone if you check the phone, but where do you draw the line? Therein lies the problem and a blanket ban as now is the safest way to do it.
The same could be said about having the car radio on, but they're allowed. Taxi drivers round here use headsets to take bookings.
I added:
Your always excellent observational and awareness skills are not a good reason to allow everyone to behave in the same way, because most of them aren't as good as you. Yes you can always find occasions when no harm is likely to come to anyone if you check the phone, but where do you draw the line? Therein lies the problem and a blanket ban as now is the safest way to do it.
Well the law does not think you are a safe driver to use your hand held phone while at a set of traffic lights, and that is what counts and if you were caught you would be fined and given points. You could go to court and and try to fight your case but you WILL lose anyway. And if you did pull over bring your car to a stop, apply the handbrake and use your phone you would still be braking the law. As the law states It is illegal to use a mobile phone held in the hand while driving or while stopped with the engine on. So unless you have turned your engine off you will still be fined
The options are limited, but they exist, depending on how much space you've left in front, or whether it's possible to pull over to the left or right, or just jump out of the car. At worst, you will at least have time to say your prayers.
When I come across an unexpected queue on a bend in a main road, I often stop short leaving a large gap, so as to provide an earlier warning to traffic approaching behind, then I can move forward and close the gap. But I would imagine someone keen to see what that latest response might be on their smartphone, would rather just stop and concentrate on that.
Smartphones and cars just don't mix, whether they happen to be stationary at that instant or not. Eventually it will all be built-in, head-up and hands-free, which is an improvement, but not an independent hand-held device.
Put the phone down, still switched on, on the passenger seat or dashboard? Which is more likely to preoccupy you when the next notification comes: what the message might possibly be, or what the traffic is doing? (BTW would you be happy with your airline pilot being engrossed with his iPhone when on auto-pilot? If not then why not, since he can put forward all the same arguments as you?)
As far as the law is concerned you are classed as the same as everyone else.
Can't argue with that. We always have to work to the lowest common denominator hence banning things on the basis that some clueless, inconsiderate fools have to be told or forced to stop doing something whereas the rest moderate their own behaviour.
I shall end this discussion saying that I know what I'm doing is illegal, I know that other people may not be able to cope with phone browsing + pulling away from the lights in a timely, safe manner, but I'll continue doing what I'm doing and rue the day I ever get caught. If that does happen though, I'll graciously start a thread to allow everyone to point and laugh at me...
That looks like a reply to above, but it applies to anyone, I didn't read the rest of the thread before posting.
An increase in the fines might happen tho.