Hey mogie. I think the fundamental difference is that Josie is not a poster on Digital Spy. As per the T&C of this forum, comments about TV programmes, radio, celebrities, etc., are fine but comments about other forum members are not.
So sending threatening and abusive messages to and about other forum members because they criticised any particular celebrity is not permitted.
Nobody here is name-calling or being threatening or abusive to any of the AT posters either here, on Twitter or anywhere else for that matter. Also, nobody is being threatening or abusive towards Josie either. To do so we would have to be addressing her directly, like the problem messages you refer to.
Just imagine if I came onto the Josie appreciation page and started telling everyone how wrong they were. Though why I would bother to do that I have no idea.
Hey mogie. I think the fundamental difference is that Josie is not a poster on Digital Spy. As per the T&C of this forum, comments about TV programmes, radio, celebrities, etc., are fine but comments about other forum members are not.
So sending threatening and abusive messages to and about other forum members because they criticised any particular celebrity is not permitted.
Nobody here is name-calling or being threatening or abusive to any of the AT posters either here, on Twitter or anywhere else for that matter. Also, nobody is being threatening or abusive towards Josie either. To do so we would have to be addressing her directly, like the problem messages you refer to.
Just imagine if I came onto the Josie appreciation page and started telling everyone how wrong they were. Though why I would bother to do that I have no idea.
Precisely. Why this has to be REPEATEDLY pointed out is quite puzzling. This is a BB forum where BB contestants are discussed. They sell themselves to make as much money as they can from being discussed. As most of them are - and in Josie's case, self-confessedly so - without any discernible 'talent'; it is their behaviour and their private lives that they sell.
Josie Gibson has taken selling her private life to a new depth, by my reckoning. I don't ever recall anyone telling me about the details of her abortion before.
Us talking about it is what she wants us to do. Why can her fans not see that? Without people dissecting her private life, Josie has more or less nothing to sell. Her 'career' is at an end.
Precisely. Why this has to be REPEATEDLY pointed out is quite puzzling. This is a BB forum where BB contestants are discussed. They sell themselves to make as much money as they can from being discussed. As most of them are - and in Josie's case, self-confessedly so - without any discernible 'talent'; it is their behaviour and their private lives that they sell.
Josie Gibson has taken selling her private life to a new depth, by my reckoning. I don't ever recall anyone telling me about the details of her abortion before.
Us talking about it is what she wants us to do. Why can her fans not see that? Without people dissecting her private life, Josie has more or less nothing to sell. Her 'career' is at an end.
Absolutely. Personally I don't see that discussing her and having an opinion on what she does, or even saying whether I do or don't like her or something she's done, is an insult. It's only my personal opinion. Josie doesn't care what I think of or about her that's for sure. I don't tweet her (or John) with my thoughts on the subject, merely discuss it here where people are sharing their thoughts and opinions.
I think the most revelant part of Mogie's post is "or associated with the person [who is insulted]". Josie's fans are not only fans but feel personally offended whenever anything derogatory is said about her. That is all very well and their right in a free society, but the fact is that, however they may feel about it, they are not actually being insulted at all. I don't think I am responsible for how emotionally attached they are to their chosen target of admiration.
For example, as I've said before, my own idol/hero is Brian May. But I don't go looking for threads on the internet discussing how he's a wiry-haired has been so I can get upset and tell people they don't have the right to say that. Why would I care if someone else does not appreciate him as I do?
What is that saying? Any attention is good attention!
I spent many years idolizing the most uncool singers or unknown actors so im well used to people ridiculing my choice of hero! I never cared, i quite liked the idea of following someone who no one else particularly admired....
What i would like to say to all critics of this thread is there are several points of view represented here, it isnt just one united front. There are those who never liked Josie or John and never thought it was anything but a fake romance, designed to make money for them. There are those who think it was fake romance but a genuine friendship. Others believe it was genuine from the start and just didnt work out and again, others who think they were more like woundmates!
I came to this thread to try and see a different perspective because i was actually quite surprised by my reaction to this couple two years ago and i wanted to explore why i reacted the way i did. I enjoy discussion and hearing another viewpoint, it may not make me change my opinion but it allows better insight. I still believe it was a genuine relationship, certainly dont think it was a cold plan but i can see now that Johns attachment to Josie was emotional dependence and Josie, im now just not sure about. I know we have had long discussions about narcissistic tendencies and im not in a position to say either way, my personal view is that Josie has been severely affected by her childhood, her relationship with her Mother and the loss of her father and maybe the failure of the long term relationship with her older boyfriend. I think she shut down emotions to get through those losses and has never been able to or wanted to let them out again and so is unable to react or recognise emotion in other people. I realise this sounds like im defending her or justifying her behaviour but its the way i see it.
I think the most revelant part of Mogie's post is "or associated with the person [who is insulted]". Josie's fans are not only fans but feel personally offended whenever anything derogatory is said about her. That is all very well and their right in a free society, but the fact is that, however they may feel about it, they are not actually being insulted at all. I don't think I am responsible for how emotionally attached they are to their chosen target of admiration.
For example, as I've said before, my own idol/hero is Brian May. But I don't go looking for threads on the internet discussing how he's a wiry-haired has been so I can get upset and tell people they don't have the right to say that. Why would I care if someone else does not appreciate him as I do?
I won't bore everyone but if anyone is interested a read about Social Stigma would start to put into perspective what is going on here. Stigma is an attribute, behaviour, or reputation which is socially discrediting in a particular way: it causes an individual/group (in this case CT) to be mentally classified by others in an undesirable, rejected stereotype rather than in an accepted, normal one
It's complex but one element is 'Us & them
- 'linking negative attributes to groups facilitates separation into "us" and "them". Seeing the labeled group as fundamentally different causes stereotyping with little hesitation. "Us" and "them" implies that the labeled group is slightly less human in nature, and at the extreme not human at all. Individuals in this thread have increasingly ceased to exist. CT is an entity in its own right - de-humanising it!.
Hey mogie. I think the fundamental difference is that Josie is not a poster on Digital Spy. As per the T&C of this forum, comments about TV programmes, radio, celebrities, etc., are fine but comments about other forum members are not..
Not so fundamental HT
What if Josie were to make a post on DS ?
She would be subject to the forum T&C's. You would have to find a new target for your righteous rhetoric.
Maybe there are T&C's for life?
I've observed many damaged people on here who cluster around the black hole she is claimed to be.
But it's all transference - and I think you know that deep down.
In realiity - josie is a woman who lives in bristol with a dog (and likes to dabble in gossip magazines)
I won't bore everyone but if anyone is interested a read about Social Stigma would start to put into perspective what is going on here. Stigma is an attribute, behaviour, or reputation which is socially discrediting in a particular way: it causes an individual/group (in this case CT) to be mentally classified by others in an undesirable, rejected stereotype rather than in an accepted, normal one
It's complex but one element is 'Us & them
- 'linking negative attributes to groups facilitates separation into "us" and "them". Seeing the labeled group as fundamentally different causes stereotyping with little hesitation. "Us" and "them" implies that the labeled group is slightly less human in nature, and at the extreme not human at all. Individuals in this thread have increasingly ceased to exist. CT is an entity in its own right - de-humanising it!.
Hi Nosnikrapl
I personally don't see anyone on this thread as an undesirable, rejected stereotype either individually or collectively.
She would be subject to the forum T&C's. You would have to find a new target for your righteous rhetoric.
Maybe there are T&C's for life?
I've observed many damaged people on here who cluster around the black hole she is claimed to be.
But it's all transference - and I think you know that deep down.
In realiity - josie is a woman who lives in bristol with a dog (and likes to dabble in gossip magazines)
All the rest is just you - nothing more.
Interesting theory Cobaye
I am assuming that you are including yourself under this blanket statement - as it seems most of your activity on Digital Spy has been spent clustering with us down this deep dark hole........;).
.........and if I may say so, most seem to contain more than a hint of snideness towards other posters here. You have said how shit the thread is, you have said a few pages back how much it was boring you........yet you are strangely drawn back.......to give us another little dig and insult.
Righteous rhetoric eh...............
Dear Pot
Please dont call me black
Love
The Kettle
Hello Mogie and thanks for posting and quoting me - I seem to have offended quite a lot in my criticism of Josie, but the thread title was posted by a JJJ fan asking us to prove the relationship was fake in a court of law, ergo various aspects of her behaviour are going to be discussed. As McWorster says, all views are here, mine being they were an emotional support for each other and after leaving the house it went pear shaped..............
Ah you have lots of good points mcworster I have found your posts really interesting, and wonderful to see folk coming on here and explaining why they feel the way they do.
Precisely. Why this has to be REPEATEDLY pointed out is quite puzzling. This is a BB forum where BB contestants are discussed. They sell themselves to make as much money as they can from being discussed. As most of them are - and in Josie's case, self-confessedly so - without any discernible 'talent'; it is their behaviour and their private lives that they sell.
Josie Gibson has taken selling her private life to a new depth, by my reckoning. I don't ever recall anyone telling me about the details of her abortion before.
Us talking about it is what she wants us to do. Why can her fans not see that? Without people dissecting her private life, Josie has more or less nothing to sell. Her 'career' is at an end.
How could we possibly have a debate on something if only postive things are allowed to be said.
Just look on "the Voice" or the Politics thread...........there is an awful lot worse said on there let me tell ya......:eek:...........
Jaysus -Jordan gets lumps pulled out of her on the showbiz thread and she also has friends family and whatever............if people stopped talking about her she would be devestated................and so would Josie.
Then she would be protected by and have to adhere to the same forum rules as everyone else. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
But it's all transference - and I think you know that deep down.
It would certainly be interesting to see a good argument proposed with this as its central hypothesis. However saying "You know it's true deep down" is not it.
I'm not sure what your actual point is. Taken to its logical conclusion, your "T&Cs for life" would prohibit anyone saying anything about anyone else at any time. I doubt this would be practical, enforceable or indeed desirable. It's probably better to let people say what they want and deal with it, especially when some people are getting upset on someone else's behalf.
This is a privately owned internet forum and so the owners are free to curtail free speech in whatever way they see fit. And when you join you accept that voluntarily. Such is not the case when one is simply born into this world so I would question your analogy.
Then she would be protected by and have to adhere to the same forum rules as everyone else. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
It would certainly be interesting to see a good argument proposed with this as its central hypothesis. However saying "You know it's true deep down" is not it.
I'm not sure what your actual point is. Taken to its logical conclusion, your "T&Cs for life" would prohibit anyone saying anything about anyone else at any time. I doubt this would be practical, enforceable or indeed desirable. It's probably better to let people say what they want and deal with it, especially when some people are getting upset on someone else's behalf.
This is a privately owned internet forum and so the owners are free to curtail free speech in whatever way they see fit. And when you join you accept that voluntarily. Such is not the case when one is simply born into this world so I would question your analogy.
Josie posting on DS court thread that means she would have to answer some very honest and truthful questions. I dont think she likes to answer. :eek:
I did find it strange that the article in which she wrote about him hating Bristol and could not get work was written perhaps a week or more before he had even started advertising. How could he know??
Even if it's not mags..there are always hints in tweets..like the friends clips etc...she wears things he bought her in pics...she can't leave it alone.
I agree with some of the posts on here I think she does wear johns clothes and ring. I think she does it because:
1. She still has strong feelings for him. He left her it was not her choice.
2. It shows him him and others she still cares.
3. It gets attention from everyone and get people talking ( JJJ fans and people who dislike her)
4. she thinks it a way of getting at him. wearing his things when with someone else.
5. keeps the interest
if john was so bad why would you still have and wear his clothes. Also when with someone else and wearing ex stuff ? So disrespectful to new partner
Ah you have lots of good points mcworster I have found your posts really interesting, and wonderful to see folk coming on here and explaining why they feel the way they do.
Ah, thankyou! I seem to say the same thing over and over but I try to be honest , reasonable and open minded.
In realiity - josie is a woman who lives in bristol with a dog (and likes to dabble in gossip magazines)
Josie is an offensive individual who is a chronic liar and manipulator. As a celebrity she is an abject failure and as a human she lacks basic qualities of empathy and honesty. You know deep down it's true, not a shred of common sense or dignity, our Josie.
Being the kind of celebrity she is "one with no talent whatsoever" invites ridicule. She can take the heat, or she wouldn't keep lighting the flame.
BTW, I haven't observed you at all as I have a life.
I post on the Josie appreciation thread. On Thursday, out of curiousity, I started reading this thread for the first time.
I haven't come in to debate with anyone as I don't really feel the need to defend why I like a person or not.
Referring to Josie, Frillynix said on here:
she reminds me of that snake headed woman who one glance would turn you to stone............Medusa wasnt it?
One of your other posters Ella, said:
People on here getting sent threatening messages and talked about on twitter saying they were satans helpers and other insane things.
Whilst I totally agree that sending threatening messages is despcable behaviour, what I would say is that name calling can be disrespectful and hurtful to anyone on the receiving end.
Although these comments came from two different posters, maybe it should be kept in mind that although it might be felt it is okay to dish it out as per Frillynix's post, it is not that funny when you are the person or associated with the person it is aimed at as per Ella s post.
A few lines later in the same post (post number 2682), Ella refers to the hypocrisy of it all. Indeed.
That was all I wanted to say.
This post reminds me of Josie on twitter.
She makes time to troll through tweets on subjects that upset her in order to chastise the authors through feigned indignation and outright rudeness because they have the nerve to not think exactly the same as her.
I agree with some of the posts on here I think she does wear johns clothes and ring. I think she does it because:
1. She still has strong feelings for him. He left her it was not her choice.
2. It shows him him and others she still cares.
3. It gets attention from everyone and get people talking ( JJJ fans and people who dislike her)
4. she thinks it a way of getting at him. wearing his things when with someone else.
5. keeps the interest
if john was so bad why would you still have and wear his clothes. Also when with someone else and wearing ex stuff ? So disrespectful to new partner
1. It gets attention from rags and gets JJJ fans talking
(Sorry but really who else would notice.)
2. She hasn't gotten clothes or jewelry off the new guy yet.
What is that saying? Any attention is good attention!
I spent many years idolizing the most uncool singers or unknown actors so im well used to people ridiculing my choice of hero! I never cared, i quite liked the idea of following someone who no one else particularly admired....
What i would like to say to all critics of this thread is there are several points of view represented here, it isnt just one united front. There are those who never liked Josie or John and never thought it was anything but a fake romance, designed to make money for them. There are those who think it was fake romance but a genuine friendship. Others believe it was genuine from the start and just didnt work out and again, others who think they were more like woundmates!
I came to this thread to try and see a different perspective because i was actually quite surprised by my reaction to this couple two years ago and i wanted to explore why i reacted the way i did. I enjoy discussion and hearing another viewpoint, it may not make me change my opinion but it allows better insight. I still believe it was a genuine relationship, certainly dont think it was a cold plan but i can see now that Johns attachment to Josie was emotional dependence and Josie, im now just not sure about. I know we have had long discussions about narcissistic tendencies and im not in a position to say either way, my personal view is that Josie has been severely affected by her childhood, her relationship with her Mother and the loss of her father and maybe the failure of the long term relationship with her older boyfriend. I think she shut down emotions to get through those losses and has never been able to or wanted to let them out again and so is unable to react or recognise emotion in other people. I realise this sounds like im defending her or justifying her behaviour but its the way i see it.
I know what you mean.. I tend to be fascinated by people and what motivates them, and although im no expert I am interested in psychology and reality tv and magazines and the media....etc...
As well as liking John as a character/personality during BB11 itself, .I was fascinated after BB11 about what it was about the whole JJJ story, that created such a large and powerful group of fans....
and about the way this could and was used by the media....
Even now there exist some pretty strong and powerful fan bases .....even though John isnt even in the UK, he stll has quite a bit of power and influence....and it has been fascinating, and scary and worrying to see how the two fan bases have interacted... .When JJJ split up.....there were a few sarcastic comments about ..now who was going to end up with custody of the fans....?
And this is where some of the antagonism comes from on places like twitter....John and Josie, and their friends, family and fans, are still battling over who has custody of the fans...and who is more in the right than the other....
ok so I will admit to being biased...but....a year on....I think John in is the lead, and has retained and gained the majority share of the fans....just by being quiet and letting Josie and some of her fans... get into more and more of a muddle....
Is there a saying 'being hoist on her own petard'.... Josie has managed to spoil a lot of things all by herself........
Even on here, where originally the discussion was negative about both John and Josie, in equal measure....the feeling has become a lot more positive overall about John. He comes out as being misguided, but a decent guy at heart....
whereas Josie has continued to be the gift who keeps on giving......continually putting her foot in it. constantly being shown up for distorting the truth, or telling outright lies...
Being given the most amazing set of work opportunities and messing them up, .like standing in as a main presenter for OKTV, and forgetting her glasses so she couldnt read the autocue......how on earth can anyone be that stupid, and unprepared..?. And how can her management have let her do that.......?
and all of the chaos about the charity donations etc....and the fiasco about the voting before christmas....!!!
Josie has got her fans....but I think a lot of her joint fans, have either left or moved over towards supporting John more...?
John has barely said a word...yet I think most people now , think he had a narrow escape and is much better off without Josie... John still seems to be in contact and friendly towards most of his ex housemates, like Dave, JJ and sunshine, and still friendly and in contact with his ex bodyguard and agent, whilst Josie doesnt seem to be talking or friendly with any of them.....
It will be interesting to see what happens if he ever does come back to the UK..?
will he say anything to anyone? or try and use his support? and how on earth are Josie and her fanbase going to react?
im kind of watching this space and hoping that everyone stays reasonably friendly and civilised.......
I post on the Josie appreciation thread. On Thursday, out of curiousity, I started reading this thread for the first time.
I haven't come in to debate with anyone as I don't really feel the need to defend why I like a person or not.
Referring to Josie, Frillynix said on here:
she reminds me of that snake headed woman who one glance would turn you to stone............Medusa wasnt it?
One of your other posters Ella, said:
People on here getting sent threatening messages and talked about on twitter saying they were satans helpers and other insane things.
Whilst I totally agree that sending threatening messages is despcable behaviour, what I would say is that name calling can be disrespectful and hurtful to anyone on the receiving end.
Although these comments came from two different posters, maybe it should be kept in mind that although it might be felt it is okay to dish it out as per Frillynix's post, it is not that funny when you are the person or associated with the person it is aimed at as per Ella s post.
A few lines later in the same post (post number 2682), Ella refers to the hypocrisy of it all. Indeed.
That was all I wanted to say.
Hi Mogie bear,
Sorry for my late response (hastily written) ,my husband is home for the weekend and moans if I am on the net.
Posters from the JJJAT have said in the past that they hate to be grouped together and generalised about.There was a post recently in the JAT saying that too. I did say that in the post that you have clipped down to a few words.
"I find the fanbase's and all the offshoots very interesting.I understand that threads like the court thread and AT's are full of many different views about JJJ.There is no one mindset."
So that was one of my points in my post.
My comment about hypocrisy was about people complaining about a post on the CT saying it was out of order and rude and how they responded to that comment was by posting many really nasty comments about a thread full of many posters.
Don't you find that hypocritical to complain about rudeness with OTT rudeness? I can't remember the post so can't find it to quote but it had lots of examples of the tweets on it.
I don't understand how people can let things get to them like that.
I also don't understand why you feel that you are able to post your unfavourable opinions about people that you don't like and that is okay with you,but you don't think people should be able to post their unfavourable opinions about people that you like ?
Is that fair?
Why is Frillynix's comment about Medusa any different to you posting about Lucy Cave should get on her broomstick or comments about wanting to slap Ben?
Josie's appreciation thread has lots of comments from various FM's with strong opinions about HM's ,show business people etc.
As other people have said Josie went into the BB house and is in mags and tv. It is her bread and butter to be discussed favourably or not.
Anyway I wish you would post about thread topic .I really would love your opinion ,especially as I think that you were a JJJ fan and now only post on the JAT,is that right?
I understand that you don't want to explain why you like Josie but I would love your opinions about the relationship.
What did you think when Josie said she had never loved John James?
When do you think the relationship ended? Do you dislike John James? if you do is it because you think he treated Josie badly in the breakup?
It really would be good if you joined in the discussion.
Josie posting on DS court thread that means she would have to answer some very honest and truthful questions. I dont think she likes to answer. :eek:
I dont think she could answer some of them...!!!
Ages ago...im sure it was suggested that both John and Josie were members of DS incognito, and using a false name...
and there was a period early last year, when John especially seemed to be aware of the content of threads like this and responded to them by comments in mags etc...
like the period when ...after the perfume signing,..this thread were saying that John and JJ seemed closer than John and Josie, and John put out on twitter a pic of him and JJs head on Josies body...!!!!;)
I do wonder whether Josie has also come onto DS incognito..and has also tried to respond .....to defend herself and her actions.... and even if she did do it publically and tell everyone she was here......she doesnt seem to me to be the most intellectual of people, and would id imagine find it difficult to discuss and reply to some of the posts on here, in a lighthearted manner without getting angry and upset...
I agree with some of the posts on here I think she does wear johns clothes and ring. I think she does it because:
1. She still has strong feelings for him. He left her it was not her choice.
2. It shows him him and others she still cares.
3. It gets attention from everyone and get people talking ( JJJ fans and people who dislike her)
4. she thinks it a way of getting at him. wearing his things when with someone else.
5. keeps the interest
if john was so bad why would you still have and wear his clothes. Also when with someone else and wearing ex stuff ? So disrespectful to new partner
BIB...trouble is ....I dont get the impression at all that John is in the same place....
so I hope that Josie has got over her strong feelings for him, cos if she hasnt she could be the one that ends up getting hurt....again... (and even if the relationship wasnt that genuine, any relationship break.up must hurt, especially for someone like Josie, who seems to have been abandoned or rejected by people for a lot of her life.....like her dad and relatives dying, could be seen as a form of abandonment...the procession of stepfathers etc )
and im sure it keeps the interest going as well.......:D
Comments
So sending threatening and abusive messages to and about other forum members because they criticised any particular celebrity is not permitted.
Nobody here is name-calling or being threatening or abusive to any of the AT posters either here, on Twitter or anywhere else for that matter. Also, nobody is being threatening or abusive towards Josie either. To do so we would have to be addressing her directly, like the problem messages you refer to.
Just imagine if I came onto the Josie appreciation page and started telling everyone how wrong they were. Though why I would bother to do that I have no idea.
Precisely. Why this has to be REPEATEDLY pointed out is quite puzzling. This is a BB forum where BB contestants are discussed. They sell themselves to make as much money as they can from being discussed. As most of them are - and in Josie's case, self-confessedly so - without any discernible 'talent'; it is their behaviour and their private lives that they sell.
Josie Gibson has taken selling her private life to a new depth, by my reckoning. I don't ever recall anyone telling me about the details of her abortion before.
Us talking about it is what she wants us to do. Why can her fans not see that? Without people dissecting her private life, Josie has more or less nothing to sell. Her 'career' is at an end.
Absolutely. Personally I don't see that discussing her and having an opinion on what she does, or even saying whether I do or don't like her or something she's done, is an insult. It's only my personal opinion. Josie doesn't care what I think of or about her that's for sure. I don't tweet her (or John) with my thoughts on the subject, merely discuss it here where people are sharing their thoughts and opinions.
For example, as I've said before, my own idol/hero is Brian May. But I don't go looking for threads on the internet discussing how he's a wiry-haired has been so I can get upset and tell people they don't have the right to say that. Why would I care if someone else does not appreciate him as I do?
I spent many years idolizing the most uncool singers or unknown actors so im well used to people ridiculing my choice of hero! I never cared, i quite liked the idea of following someone who no one else particularly admired....
What i would like to say to all critics of this thread is there are several points of view represented here, it isnt just one united front. There are those who never liked Josie or John and never thought it was anything but a fake romance, designed to make money for them. There are those who think it was fake romance but a genuine friendship. Others believe it was genuine from the start and just didnt work out and again, others who think they were more like woundmates!
I came to this thread to try and see a different perspective because i was actually quite surprised by my reaction to this couple two years ago and i wanted to explore why i reacted the way i did. I enjoy discussion and hearing another viewpoint, it may not make me change my opinion but it allows better insight. I still believe it was a genuine relationship, certainly dont think it was a cold plan but i can see now that Johns attachment to Josie was emotional dependence and Josie, im now just not sure about. I know we have had long discussions about narcissistic tendencies and im not in a position to say either way, my personal view is that Josie has been severely affected by her childhood, her relationship with her Mother and the loss of her father and maybe the failure of the long term relationship with her older boyfriend. I think she shut down emotions to get through those losses and has never been able to or wanted to let them out again and so is unable to react or recognise emotion in other people. I realise this sounds like im defending her or justifying her behaviour but its the way i see it.
I won't bore everyone but if anyone is interested a read about Social Stigma would start to put into perspective what is going on here. Stigma is an attribute, behaviour, or reputation which is socially discrediting in a particular way: it causes an individual/group (in this case CT) to be mentally classified by others in an undesirable, rejected stereotype rather than in an accepted, normal one
It's complex but one element is 'Us & them
- 'linking negative attributes to groups facilitates separation into "us" and "them". Seeing the labeled group as fundamentally different causes stereotyping with little hesitation. "Us" and "them" implies that the labeled group is slightly less human in nature, and at the extreme not human at all. Individuals in this thread have increasingly ceased to exist. CT is an entity in its own right - de-humanising it!.
Not so fundamental HT
What if Josie were to make a post on DS ?
She would be subject to the forum T&C's. You would have to find a new target for your righteous rhetoric.
Maybe there are T&C's for life?
I've observed many damaged people on here who cluster around the black hole she is claimed to be.
But it's all transference - and I think you know that deep down.
In realiity - josie is a woman who lives in bristol with a dog (and likes to dabble in gossip magazines)
All the rest is just you - nothing more.
Hi Nosnikrapl
I personally don't see anyone on this thread as an undesirable, rejected stereotype either individually or collectively.
Thanks for your comments guys.
Mogie
Actually they are my good points......
Interesting theory Cobaye
I am assuming that you are including yourself under this blanket statement - as it seems most of your activity on Digital Spy has been spent clustering with us down this deep dark hole........;).
.........and if I may say so, most seem to contain more than a hint of snideness towards other posters here. You have said how shit the thread is, you have said a few pages back how much it was boring you........yet you are strangely drawn back.......to give us another little dig and insult.
Righteous rhetoric eh...............
Dear Pot
Please dont call me black
Love
The Kettle
Hello Mogie and thanks for posting and quoting me - I seem to have offended quite a lot in my criticism of Josie, but the thread title was posted by a JJJ fan asking us to prove the relationship was fake in a court of law, ergo various aspects of her behaviour are going to be discussed. As McWorster says, all views are here, mine being they were an emotional support for each other and after leaving the house it went pear shaped..............
Ah you have lots of good points mcworster I have found your posts really interesting, and wonderful to see folk coming on here and explaining why they feel the way they do.
sigh............Pats...............I totally agree.
How could we possibly have a debate on something if only postive things are allowed to be said.
Just look on "the Voice" or the Politics thread...........there is an awful lot worse said on there let me tell ya......:eek:...........
Jaysus -Jordan gets lumps pulled out of her on the showbiz thread and she also has friends family and whatever............if people stopped talking about her she would be devestated................and so would Josie.
Then she would be protected by and have to adhere to the same forum rules as everyone else. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
It would certainly be interesting to see a good argument proposed with this as its central hypothesis. However saying "You know it's true deep down" is not it.
I'm not sure what your actual point is. Taken to its logical conclusion, your "T&Cs for life" would prohibit anyone saying anything about anyone else at any time. I doubt this would be practical, enforceable or indeed desirable. It's probably better to let people say what they want and deal with it, especially when some people are getting upset on someone else's behalf.
This is a privately owned internet forum and so the owners are free to curtail free speech in whatever way they see fit. And when you join you accept that voluntarily. Such is not the case when one is simply born into this world so I would question your analogy.
Josie posting on DS court thread that means she would have to answer some very honest and truthful questions. I dont think she likes to answer. :eek:
I agree with some of the posts on here I think she does wear johns clothes and ring. I think she does it because:
1. She still has strong feelings for him. He left her it was not her choice.
2. It shows him him and others she still cares.
3. It gets attention from everyone and get people talking ( JJJ fans and people who dislike her)
4. she thinks it a way of getting at him. wearing his things when with someone else.
5. keeps the interest
if john was so bad why would you still have and wear his clothes. Also when with someone else and wearing ex stuff ? So disrespectful to new partner
Ah, thankyou! I seem to say the same thing over and over but I try to be honest , reasonable and open minded.
Being the kind of celebrity she is "one with no talent whatsoever" invites ridicule. She can take the heat, or she wouldn't keep lighting the flame.
BTW, I haven't observed you at all as I have a life.
This post reminds me of Josie on twitter.
She makes time to troll through tweets on subjects that upset her in order to chastise the authors through feigned indignation and outright rudeness because they have the nerve to not think exactly the same as her.
1. It gets attention from rags and gets JJJ fans talking
(Sorry but really who else would notice.)
2. She hasn't gotten clothes or jewelry off the new guy yet.
I know what you mean.. I tend to be fascinated by people and what motivates them, and although im no expert I am interested in psychology and reality tv and magazines and the media....etc...
As well as liking John as a character/personality during BB11 itself, .I was fascinated after BB11 about what it was about the whole JJJ story, that created such a large and powerful group of fans....
and about the way this could and was used by the media....
Even now there exist some pretty strong and powerful fan bases .....even though John isnt even in the UK, he stll has quite a bit of power and influence....and it has been fascinating, and scary and worrying to see how the two fan bases have interacted... .When JJJ split up.....there were a few sarcastic comments about ..now who was going to end up with custody of the fans....?
And this is where some of the antagonism comes from on places like twitter....John and Josie, and their friends, family and fans, are still battling over who has custody of the fans...and who is more in the right than the other....
ok so I will admit to being biased...but....a year on....I think John in is the lead, and has retained and gained the majority share of the fans....just by being quiet and letting Josie and some of her fans... get into more and more of a muddle....
Is there a saying 'being hoist on her own petard'.... Josie has managed to spoil a lot of things all by herself........
Even on here, where originally the discussion was negative about both John and Josie, in equal measure....the feeling has become a lot more positive overall about John. He comes out as being misguided, but a decent guy at heart....
whereas Josie has continued to be the gift who keeps on giving......continually putting her foot in it. constantly being shown up for distorting the truth, or telling outright lies...
Being given the most amazing set of work opportunities and messing them up, .like standing in as a main presenter for OKTV, and forgetting her glasses so she couldnt read the autocue......how on earth can anyone be that stupid, and unprepared..?. And how can her management have let her do that.......?
and all of the chaos about the charity donations etc....and the fiasco about the voting before christmas....!!!
Josie has got her fans....but I think a lot of her joint fans, have either left or moved over towards supporting John more...?
John has barely said a word...yet I think most people now , think he had a narrow escape and is much better off without Josie... John still seems to be in contact and friendly towards most of his ex housemates, like Dave, JJ and sunshine, and still friendly and in contact with his ex bodyguard and agent, whilst Josie doesnt seem to be talking or friendly with any of them.....
It will be interesting to see what happens if he ever does come back to the UK..?
will he say anything to anyone? or try and use his support? and how on earth are Josie and her fanbase going to react?
im kind of watching this space and hoping that everyone stays reasonably friendly and civilised.......
Hi Mogie bear,
Sorry for my late response (hastily written) ,my husband is home for the weekend and moans if I am on the net.
Posters from the JJJAT have said in the past that they hate to be grouped together and generalised about.There was a post recently in the JAT saying that too. I did say that in the post that you have clipped down to a few words.
"I find the fanbase's and all the offshoots very interesting.I understand that threads like the court thread and AT's are full of many different views about JJJ.There is no one mindset."
So that was one of my points in my post.
My comment about hypocrisy was about people complaining about a post on the CT saying it was out of order and rude and how they responded to that comment was by posting many really nasty comments about a thread full of many posters.
Don't you find that hypocritical to complain about rudeness with OTT rudeness? I can't remember the post so can't find it to quote but it had lots of examples of the tweets on it.
I don't understand how people can let things get to them like that.
I also don't understand why you feel that you are able to post your unfavourable opinions about people that you don't like and that is okay with you,but you don't think people should be able to post their unfavourable opinions about people that you like ?
Is that fair?
Why is Frillynix's comment about Medusa any different to you posting about Lucy Cave should get on her broomstick or comments about wanting to slap Ben?
Josie's appreciation thread has lots of comments from various FM's with strong opinions about HM's ,show business people etc.
As other people have said Josie went into the BB house and is in mags and tv. It is her bread and butter to be discussed favourably or not.
Anyway I wish you would post about thread topic .I really would love your opinion ,especially as I think that you were a JJJ fan and now only post on the JAT,is that right?
I understand that you don't want to explain why you like Josie but I would love your opinions about the relationship.
What did you think when Josie said she had never loved John James?
When do you think the relationship ended? Do you dislike John James? if you do is it because you think he treated Josie badly in the breakup?
It really would be good if you joined in the discussion.
I dont think she could answer some of them...!!!
Ages ago...im sure it was suggested that both John and Josie were members of DS incognito, and using a false name...
and there was a period early last year, when John especially seemed to be aware of the content of threads like this and responded to them by comments in mags etc...
like the period when ...after the perfume signing,..this thread were saying that John and JJ seemed closer than John and Josie, and John put out on twitter a pic of him and JJs head on Josies body...!!!!;)
I do wonder whether Josie has also come onto DS incognito..and has also tried to respond .....to defend herself and her actions.... and even if she did do it publically and tell everyone she was here......she doesnt seem to me to be the most intellectual of people, and would id imagine find it difficult to discuss and reply to some of the posts on here, in a lighthearted manner without getting angry and upset...
BIB...trouble is ....I dont get the impression at all that John is in the same place....
so I hope that Josie has got over her strong feelings for him, cos if she hasnt she could be the one that ends up getting hurt....again...
and im sure it keeps the interest going as well.......:D