Advice from Grade 2 listed cottage dwellers please

Mitten KittenMitten Kitten Posts: 1,185
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Hi all

I am considering buying a grade 2 listed cottage. However, I know nothing about owning that sort of property. It is does have some damp which would need investigating before I think about going ahead but I was wondering how easy or difficult is it to do work. I believe you need permission to do almost anything (or am I wrong?) I am waiting for the buyers pack to arrive first before I go any further (it is up for auction). I did look on the English Heritage website and assume that the front of the house (windows and door) can't be touched which is fine, but it would need secondary glazing at the front (other houses on the street have already got this, so I presume that would be given the go ahead). At the back there is a reasonably modern extension with upvc door and windows and upstairs there are velux windows to the back. The front of the street is really well known, but no one can see the back so most of the cottages seem to have some sort of fairly modern extension. I guess what I am asking is, who do you have to ask for permission to do work (English Heritage and/or council?) and how long does the process take before permission is granted? Any pointers will be gratefully received.

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  • TelevisionUserTelevisionUser Posts: 41,405
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    Such houses come with restrictions because of the listed building status so you'll have to run any proposed changes to the house by your local council's planning department first. Some people don't do this and they then have enforcement action taken against them (with expensive results) so it's best to get it done correctly in the first place.

    Link: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/caring/listing/listed-buildings/
  • Mitten KittenMitten Kitten Posts: 1,185
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    Thanks for the link. I was hoping that someone who has done some work on theirs could give me an idea of how hard (or not) it might be to get permission to get work done and the time scale involved.
  • TelevisionUserTelevisionUser Posts: 41,405
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    Thanks for the link. I was hoping that someone who has done some work on theirs could give me an idea of how hard (or not) it might be to get permission to get work done and the time scale involved.

    If I lived in a listed building and wanted to do some improvements, I'd ring the planning officer at the council who deals with listed builings and ask them to come out and visit the house to give advice and discuss the proposed improvements. It might mean, for example, using certain building materials over others which might come with an increased cost (but not nearly as much extra cost as enforcement action, ripping out the inappropriate materials and getting them replaced with the right ones as I indicated earlier on). I have dealings with planning officers now and again and I've found them all to be perfectly reasonable individuals.
  • kiviraatkiviraat Posts: 4,634
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    I've known a few folk with these sorts of conditions put on their properties, but also if you're in a heritage area, there may be some more hoops to jump through (or you may even be able to apply for a grant). This varies though due to the type/grade of property and whereabouts you are located, so definitely get in contact with the planning dept of the council and ask about the finer details.

    EDIT: TelevisionUser speaks a lot of sense :)
  • SupratadSupratad Posts: 10,402
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    Getting Listed Building Consent is effectively a planning permission and usually takes the same time, depending on what is being proposed. About 8-10 weeks on average.

    The whole building is subject to the listing, not just the "good bits" so in the OPs situation, the UPVC windows are listed.

    My inlaws live in a Grade 2 listed house, built in the 14th C. As an example, a few years back a pair of front windows were rotten and needed replacing. These were simple timber casements, single glazed. The planning officer in charge requested that the replacements were not simply like for like, but had to be Yorkshire sliding sash, which tripled the cost of the work.

    So bear in mind, a listing does not prevent you from doing anything, ever, but you do have a process to observe and it will cost more to do things than an unlisted house. If the rear UPVC windows ever need replacing, chances are you will have to use something more sympathetic.

    If you intend to buy, do make sure all previous consent documents are in place, as if anything was snuck in and the council take action, you the homeowner will be responsible, not the previous owners who actually did it.
  • SupratadSupratad Posts: 10,402
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    DP to add.
    Carrying out a bit of cheeky work round the back (ooh er missus) of a listed building, in the hope its never seen, is classed as a criminal offence.
  • Bus Stop2012Bus Stop2012 Posts: 5,624
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    I've got to admit to being saddened by this thread. I used to live in a grade 2 listed cottage myself, and chose it specifically because of my appreciation of the age and character. Seeing the gradual ruination of all thats charming, as has happened in the street discussed by the OP is horrible.
    You can get good wooden doors, you don't need plastic. Same for windows, an extra panel of glass can be put in a wooden frame.

    Sorry, I know this isn't helpful to you, OP, but its a subject close to my heart.
  • Mitten KittenMitten Kitten Posts: 1,185
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    I've got to admit to being saddened by this thread. I used to live in a grade 2 listed cottage myself, and chose it specifically because of my appreciation of the age and character. Seeing the gradual ruination of all thats charming, as has happened in the street discussed by the OP is horrible.
    You can get good wooden doors, you don't need plastic. Same for windows, an extra panel of glass can be put in a wooden frame.

    Sorry, I know this isn't helpful to you, OP, but its a subject close to my heart.

    Should I go for the cottage, that might be a project for the future. The extensions out the back have all been done to make the most of the spectacular views and I guess that whoever put in UPVC did it for cost reasons and somehow permission was granted (or not as I will discover when the legal pack eventually arrives!). The original cottage was built in the 1600s, but the living room has a Victorian fireplace. I would love to be able to discover the original fireplace if I was allowed. Thankfully the front of all the houses have lost none of their original charm and there is no access to the back view of them.
  • Bus Stop2012Bus Stop2012 Posts: 5,624
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    Should I go for the cottage, that might be a project for the future. The extensions out the back have all been done to make the most of the spectacular views and I guess that whoever put in UPVC did it for cost reasons and somehow permission was granted (or not as I will discover when the legal pack eventually arrives!). The original cottage was built in the 1600s, but the living room has a Victorian fireplace. I would love to be able to discover the original fireplace if I was allowed. Thankfully the front of all the houses have lost none of their original charm and there is no access to the back view of them.

    If its grade 2 you can do anything you like with the interior. Its fun looking for the original fireplace but best to try to research first and to take great care in case its something that you wouldn't find you liked and/or too expensive to adapt it to being functional (16th century throws up the possibility of great inefficiency).

    As another poster said, the date it got listed is important, because some of the plastic and the extensions etc might have already been installed at that time. You should be able to see the date on this site

    http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/protection/process/national-heritage-list-for-england/
  • Mitten KittenMitten Kitten Posts: 1,185
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    If its grade 2 you can do anything you like with the interior. Its fun looking for the original fireplace but best to try to research first and to take great care in case its something that you wouldn't find you liked and/or too expensive to adapt it to being functional (16th century throws up the possibility of great inefficiency).

    As another poster said, the date it got listed is important, because some of the plastic and the extensions etc might have already been installed at that time. You should be able to see the date on this site

    http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/protection/process/national-heritage-list-for-england/

    Original 1615, rebuilt or altered 19th Century, listed in the 50s. Would hope I could put a wood burner in. One on a list of things I would like to do should I proceed further. Most of the others are minor such as adding a shower and a few more kitchen cupboards.
  • Bus Stop2012Bus Stop2012 Posts: 5,624
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    Original 1615, rebuilt or altered 19th Century, listed in the 50s. Would hope I could put a wood burner in. One on a list of things I would like to do should I proceed further. Most of the others are minor such as adding a shower and a few more kitchen cupboards.

    That sounds lovely. Having thought more about the fireplace, the chances are that the Victorian fireplace was probably installed simply because at that time it was considered desirable to 'modernise'. So you should end up with something nice underneath, and wood burners are a good compromise between open fire and something 'fake'.

    If it was listed in the 50s it sounds as though most if not all of the plastic window and door stuff in the row was done without permission. Sadly, although there are 'rules', they aren't generally enforced.
  • bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    If I lived in a listed building and wanted to do some improvements, I'd ring the planning officer at the council who deals with listed builings and ask them to come out and visit the house to give advice and discuss the proposed improvements. It might mean, for example, using certain building materials over others which might come with an increased cost (but not nearly as much extra cost as enforcement action, ripping out the inappropriate materials and getting them replaced with the right ones as I indicated earlier on). I have dealings with planning officers now and again and I've found them all to be perfectly reasonable individuals.

    ^^^^^

    I agree with all the above, plus, whatever agreements are made verbally, get them in writing as well. You probably will anyway, but just make sure.
  • Mitten KittenMitten Kitten Posts: 1,185
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    That sounds lovely. Having thought more about the fireplace, the chances are that the Victorian fireplace was probably installed simply because at that time it was considered desirable to 'modernise'. So you should end up with something nice underneath, and wood burners are a good compromise between open fire and something 'fake'.

    If it was listed in the 50s it sounds as though most if not all of the plastic window and door stuff in the row was done without permission. Sadly, although there are 'rules', they aren't generally enforced.


    I will bear that in mind. I will be interested to see what the legal pack says.
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