Islam explicitly forbids disrespectful sexual behaviour towards the opposite sex. Those men were no more Muslim than the queen.
The dictates of islam and asian culture are based on the idea that their men cannot be trusted. You can't get away from this central fact, the reason they are so fixated on sex and hiding their women away is they assume muslim men cannot be trusted with even their own women, that is where the discussion starts, where they have admitted this fact themselves. They have created something they need to protect even themselves from, and that is the problem. The politically correct folks that like to say every culture is equal and no judgement is possible need to throw this stuff under the rug in all such discussions.
So???????
So does that mean you approve of your prophets example?
I know this is off-topic but - I believe in living a good and righteous life. Muhammed (pbuh) was a proponent of such a thing. You can discuss ancient tribal process all you like, I know that in today's society such things are frowned upon. We all know that. Thus time changes many things. Hanging was a regular form of punishment, but no longer.
You yourself have said there are some problematic attitudes and verses in the Koran. If bigoted attitudes about women, western culture, and non believers are being preached in some mosques this is potentially going to lead a lot of men who hear those verses to have hatred and or disrespect for non Muslims. These beliefs that are conferred on these people may lead them in part to have attitudes which lead them to these crimes, so surely, stopping some of the bigoted attitudes about women, western culture, and non believers being preached in some mosques may help to prevent these crimes somewhat?
Yep. There's problems. I don't see it on an epidemic scale as you appear to be suggesting. That's my point.
Starting to resolve these things by reminding men of their duties towards women (any women) is something else.
I lived in Bingley, right in the middle between Bradford and Keighley, there is about 10 miles between the two places.
People I talk to in Shipley and Bingley have become very concerned because they can feel the squeeze coming from both sides.
They are not happy.
2+2, You have very stoic opinions.
I will pay next weekend, we shall go to a few nightclubs up in the uni area in Bradford.
You will not be so..appologetic... Try divert the dirty little group of Muslims. (See for yourself)
The Crackers get a bit fresh, they will by theirself and wobble home.
I invite you to a night out in Bradford 2+2
When you see how they act.......
Well...thank you for considering me stoic! I think...
I have been to Bradford. Also I lived in Yorkshire for about 3 years growing up. I know what life there is like at a high level.
I don't think I'm being apologetic about anything.
And...I don't know who the Crackers are.
I'm not trying to make Muslims seem whiter than white. They have frailties and weaknesses and faults like any other human. So I have no issue with people near where you live having concerns (if it's about people not being decent). I do have a concern if you feel it's just Muslims who are a problem (unless you can prove it genuinely is only Muslims of course).
Wouldn't you say that the strict bible thumping christianity of a 150 years ago was incompatable with modern society?
Fallen women, homosexuality forbidden, husbands having dominion over their wives ect.
What's the difference now?
Has society stood still and listened or has the religion had to adapt and progress?
The point was though, a great many Muslims living and working in the UK don't have a problem with our modern society it seems. They get on with their lives, send their kids to school, live their lives, run business or work for others etc. all without the fact they are Muslim getting in the way. So to them at least, they have no problem being Muslim in a modern, democratic Western country like the UK. If all of Islam and it's followers were like Red says we'd be in far more trouble with extremism than we are now surely, given that there are something like one and a half million Muslims here.
Now you're just being plain daft and asking about anonymous individuals on an internet forum, who I, and presumably you, know absolutely nothing about, instead of discussing a generalistic clash of two cultures
By that logic I could be replying to a serial killer. I can't say for sure.
In reality I'm willing to trust you as far as believing you say who you say you are and about what your ideals and opinions are. And that's what we all are doing.
I don't need to know your name to know your mind and how opposite I am to what you believe.
The dictates of islam and asian culture are based on the idea that their men cannot be trusted. You can't get away from this central fact, the reason they are so fixated on sex and hiding their women away is they assume muslim men cannot be trusted with even their own women, that is where the discussion starts, where they have admitted this fact themselves. They have created something they need to protect even themselves from, and that is the problem. The politically correct folks that like to say every culture is equal and no judgement is possible need to throw this stuff under the rug in all such discussions.
Sorry but you don't half talk a load of nonsense. You really have no idea what a Muslim man is let alone a Muslim woman. Your skewed ideas are dangerously wrong.
Wouldn't you say that the strict bible thumping christianity of a 150 years ago was incompatable with modern society?
Fallen women, homosexuality forbidden, husbands having dominion over their wives ect.
What's the difference now?
Has society stood still and listened or has the religion had to adapt and progress?
And yes, of course Christianity has had to modernise and adapt. But there are still Christians who have old fashioned, misogynistic and sometimes violent views. Thankfully in most Western countries such people are now extremely rare, and becoming rarer every year. Most modern Christians just get on with their lives today.
But likewise there are those amongst the Muslim communities in the UK who also hold far more modern views and principals than others in their community. There are a great many modern, moderate Islamic scholars around the UK trying to change the attitudes of some who they feel need their attitudes changed. Whether it be changing their attitude to women, to non Muslims, to extremism etc. etc. Unfortunately their voices aren't as loud as the idiots and extremists, as is always the case. The tabloid press isn't very good at reporting such things. So yes, there are Muslims who want to, and are trying to modernise and see no problem with their religion having relevance in a modern, Western, democratic country. To say that the whole of islam (and therefore, by default, all of it's followers) aren't compatible with the West and Western values is wrong. It can be, and they can be, because a great many of them already are. It might be a slow process in some areas of the country and amongst some groups or communities, but I would say those trying to modernise Islam need our help and support rather than our vilification just because they are still Muslim.
The cultures are incompatible enough to cause a certain amount of social unrest despite muslim numbers being relatively small in the UK (at the moment). Islam is too inflexible to co-exist in a harmonious manner with western ideals
You really don't think there are moderate, modern thinking, Westernised Muslims in the UK?. You've spent ages in many threads saying you don't generalise, yet here you are doing exactly that.
Are you asking me to comment on an imaginary post? If someone says it as part of making a reasonable point, then no, if they say it in an attempt to shout someone down without making a reasonable point, then possibly. But we can't say someone is lightweight until we see context and circumstances of them saying such a thing
Now you're just being plain daft and asking about anonymous individuals on an internet forum, who I, and presumably you, know absolutely nothing about, instead of discussing a generalistic clash of two cultures
I can only go by what they have posted, and to me they don't seem to fit your stereotypical view of Muslims at all. Now unless you think they are lying when they post on here I don't see how you can still think that all of Islam and it's followers are incompatible with the West. They seem perfectly happy to be living in the UK, like the people, the culture and the values and don't seem to have a problem being British and being Muslim. And I have met many Muslims out in the real World who are it appears, just the same. I can't comment on those from other cities, but here in and around Wakefield, for the most part they live, work and even socialise amongst the rest of the population. So they appear to have modernised and integrated don't they?, while still remaining Muslim.
Now I am not, for one minutes, saying all is rosy and wonderful, of course it isn't. There are still those who hold extremist views on both sides around here. But the Wakefield Central Mosque is more than happy for non Muslims who are interested to go along and speak to them, to visit the mosque and ask questions. They appear to be fully aware of the negative image Islam currently has, and seem to feel the way to counter that image is to engage with those who want to question them rather than ignore the issue.
You really don't think there are moderate, modern thinking, Westernised Muslims in the UK?. You've spent ages in many threads saying you don't generalise, yet here you are doing exactly that. .
You shouldn't have introduced Pet into your original comments as both of these quotes here seem to have taken on Pet-like qualities in that in the first one you've made something up and in the second one you've gone down the 'all' route
I've never spent 'ages' at all saying I never generalise, where did that come from? When talking about a whole religion/culture you can't do anything but generalise. Of course I talk about individual incidents as well, but I really have no idea where you are coming from with this one. Perhaps DS should introduce software that blocks people from telling blatant lies?
I can only go by what they have posted, and to me they don't seem to fit your stereotypical view of Muslims at all. Now unless you think they are lying when they post on here I don't see how you can still think that all of Islam and it's followers are incompatible with the West. .
I think we're at cross-purposes here. I'm talking about the incompability of a whole religion/culture and how it's belief system is at odds with western culture, and have never said that all of it's individual followers are incompatible with the west. That would be plain silly, not to mention, impossible. I'm talking about the bigger picture and not a 'names and addresses' scenario as you seem to be
Due to this obvious incompatibilty, islamic-based social unrest has become quite common not only in the UK but widespread across Europe, with recent riots in Sweden, France, Holland, plus other countries (the latest from Germany a few days ago), the Danish cartoon nonsense, the minarets issue in Switzerland - seemingly every country in Europe has had to deal with issues of one kind or another involving muslims.
But of course not every single individual muslim is a terrorist, rioter or a child rapist, but for whatever reason the religion/culture breeds plenty of individuals who are - and it's that bigger picture we should be looking at, and for you to attempt to dismiss that argument by claiming two FMs on DS seem 'ok' is an incredibly weak response
Ask yourself why hardly any, maybe even none at all, people from the same racial group, namely sikhs, hindus and buddhists are ever involved in similar incidents. The alarm bells should be ringing and telling you thare has to be something in islam that's creating all these problems
If you really don't feel there is any incompatibilty, here's a few pics from last weeks German riots to help you along:
You shouldn't have introduced Pet into your original comments as both of these quotes here seem to have taken on Pet-like qualities in that in the first one you've made something up and in the second one you've gone down the 'all' route
I've never spent 'ages' at all saying I never generalise, where did that come from? When talking about a whole religion/culture you can't do anything but generalise. Of course I talk about individual incidents as well, but I really have no idea where you are coming from with this one. Perhaps DS should introduce software that blocks people from telling blatant lies?
I think we're at cross-purposes here. I'm talking about the incompability of a whole religion/culture and how it's belief system is at odds with western culture, and have never said that all of it's individual followers are incompatible with the west. That would be plain silly, not to mention, impossible. I'm talking about the bigger picture and not a 'names and addresses' scenario as you seem to be
Due to this obvious incompatibilty, islamic-based social unrest has become quite common not only in the UK but widespread across Europe, with recent riots in Sweden, France, Holland, plus other countries (the latest from Germany a few days ago), the Danish cartoon nonsense, the minarets issue in Switzerland - seemingly every country in Europe has had to deal with issues of one kind or another involving muslims.
But of course not every single individual muslim is a terrorist, rioter or a child rapist, but for whatever reason the religion/culture breeds plenty of individuals who are - and it's that bigger picture we should be looking at, and for you to attempt to dismiss that argument by claiming two FMs on DS seem 'ok' is an incredibly weak response
Ask yourself why hardly any, maybe even none at all, people from the same racial group, namely sikhs, hindus and buddhists are ever involved in similar incidents. The alarm bells should be ringing and telling you thare has to be something in islam that's creating all these problems
If you really don't feel there is any incompatibilty, here's a few pics from last weeks German riots to help you along:
That would be the protest against the far right wing party in Germany then? The PRO-NRW:
"The party advocates law and order; lowering the age of criminal responsibility from 14 to 12 years of age; deportation of illegal immigrants, and the segregation of students with insufficient German language proficiency."
The ones who 'in September 2008, Pro Cologne organised the Anti-Islamisation Congress'?
The were protesting about people who are 'considered a far-right movement on the fringes of right-wing extremism and right-wing populism. Racist as well as antisemitic strands, authoritarian ideas and the rejection of equality and discrimination of minorities in activities of pro Germany, particularly the campaigning against "multiculturalism", building of mosques and minarets.'
That would be what they were protesting about then?
That would be the protest against the far right wing party in Germany then? The PRO-NRW:
"The party advocates law and order; lowering the age of criminal responsibility from 14 to 12 years of age; deportation of illegal immigrants, and the segregation of students with insufficient German language proficiency."
The ones who 'in September 2008, Pro Cologne organised the Anti-Islamisation Congress'?
The were protesting about people who are 'considered a far-right movement on the fringes of right-wing extremism and right-wing populism. Racist as well as antisemitic strands, authoritarian ideas and the rejection of equality and discrimination of minorities in activities of pro Germany, particularly the campaigning against "multiculturalism", building of mosques and minarets.'
That would be what they were protesting about then?
Do you support they PRO-NRW?
Why would I support them? What a daft question
It's similar to the EDL/muslim clashes in the UK. Are you making excuses for the muslims who stabbed the policemen because a far right group were in the vicinity?
It's similar to the EDL/muslim clashes in the UK. Are you making excuses for the muslims who stabbed the policemen because a far right group were in the vicinity?
It's more trouble involving muslims whatever way you want to dress it up
Well I provide you links to Wikipedia, you provide me links to a far right, racist, anti muslim website. What else am I supposed to think?
I bow out of any form of debate with you. I'll risk a permaban saying that you sir have the biggest agenda on Digital Spy, and I'd have more chance of converting Nick Griffin than making any head way with you, so enjoy your far right web sites that you so obviously frequent.
Well I provide you links to Wikipedia, you provide me links to a far right, racist, anti muslim website. What else am I supposed to think?
I bow out of any form of debate with you. I'll risk a permaban saying that you sir have the biggest agenda on Digital Spy, and I'd have more chance of converting Nick Griffin than making any head way with you, so enjoy your far right web sites that you so obviously frequent.
I've supplied links that tell the events in English, I haven't studied the websites they are on, why would I? The story seems universally told across all sites anyway - so your 'far right' and 'agenda' nonsense carry no weight whatsoever
It's another clear cut example of islamic-based public disorder in the west
Sorry but you don't half talk a load of nonsense. You really have no idea what a Muslim man is let alone a Muslim woman. Your skewed ideas are dangerously wrong.
Interesting how you had to avoid defending the undependable. The nonsense is you not acknowledging that the culture and atmosphere created of sexism by such religions damns itself. Why are those cultures so paranoid about protecting their women from even their own men that they have to resort to such ridiculous measures as covering them from head to toe at times, its a tacit acknowledgement that those cultures create predators. Your avoidance of the facts are dangerous, people see right through insincerity. If you honestly look behind such ideology you see the truth, all the measures and theology boil down to this, they don't even trust their own men.
Interesting how you had to avoid defending the undependable. The nonsense is you not acknowledging that the culture and atmosphere created of sexism by such religions damns itself. Why are those cultures so paranoid about protecting their women from even their own men that they have to resort to such ridiculous measures as covering them from head to toe at times, its a tacit acknowledgement that those cultures create predators. Your avoidance of the facts are dangerous, people see right through insincerity. If you honestly look behind such ideology you see the truth, all the measures and theology boil down to this, they don't even trust their own men.
It's a bit of a blunt argument though Pocatello. By extension I could argue that the Roman Catholic Church thinks Nuns are more likely to get sexually abused than laywomen.
This is not political it is how fundamental muslims live, and how they would like us to exist under Sharia law. It is a male dominated society with little if no respect or justice for women.
In europe they have to abide by our laws, what if they were allowed to introduce their laws into muslim communities here as some have called for, how long would it be before we would feel the effects.
There's no way that a discussion about whether a religion or ideology or cultural heritage can be proven to be at the root of criminal behaviour or feeding and condoning it, will ever lead to a solution. People will always cherry pick their way through it to further their own agenda.
How many times have discussions like this been conducted on DS and what did it ever accomplish? The same old arguments over and over. We know that everyone is right. Not all boys called Adolf are mass murderers, but some people happen to know one who is and want to protect their loved ones just in case. How is this ever going to be solved? What must and can be done to prevent good people, who both want the same thing, from becoming enemies?
It was really sad to see two friends in this thread, one a forum friend, the other a real life friend, have a go at each other, although both of them resolved it in a way that gives hope for real life situations as well.
If we could take a closer look at where this kind of gang behaviour starts, it could very well be that it’s inequality, isolation or discrimination itself that lies at the bottom of this kind of behaviour. And if there are elements of that involved, it’s not an excuse for bad behaviour, it’s not an apology, but surely further isolation or discrimination or whatever, is not going to be a solution. Instantly correcting individual behaviour, without attributing that behaviour to religion or race, seems to be the only way forward.
Police who smashed the Rochdale child sex ring believe they have uncovered a SECOND grooming scandal in the town. The M.E.N. can today reveal that several men have been arrested on suspicion of sexually abusing the same girl. The alleged abuse is believed to have taken place over a six-year period when the girl was in her teens. Sources described her as ‘extremely vulnerable’. Detectives have carried out video interviews with the girl, who told them she knew the men only by nicknames. A string of suspects were tracked down by officers and a number of arrests have now been made. The men in question are all from Asian and Afro-Caribbean backgrounds, the M.E.N. understands.
Comments
The dictates of islam and asian culture are based on the idea that their men cannot be trusted. You can't get away from this central fact, the reason they are so fixated on sex and hiding their women away is they assume muslim men cannot be trusted with even their own women, that is where the discussion starts, where they have admitted this fact themselves. They have created something they need to protect even themselves from, and that is the problem. The politically correct folks that like to say every culture is equal and no judgement is possible need to throw this stuff under the rug in all such discussions.
I know this is off-topic but - I believe in living a good and righteous life. Muhammed (pbuh) was a proponent of such a thing. You can discuss ancient tribal process all you like, I know that in today's society such things are frowned upon. We all know that. Thus time changes many things. Hanging was a regular form of punishment, but no longer.
Yep. There's problems. I don't see it on an epidemic scale as you appear to be suggesting. That's my point.
Starting to resolve these things by reminding men of their duties towards women (any women) is something else.
Well...thank you for considering me stoic! I think...
I have been to Bradford. Also I lived in Yorkshire for about 3 years growing up. I know what life there is like at a high level.
I don't think I'm being apologetic about anything.
And...I don't know who the Crackers are.
I'm not trying to make Muslims seem whiter than white. They have frailties and weaknesses and faults like any other human. So I have no issue with people near where you live having concerns (if it's about people not being decent). I do have a concern if you feel it's just Muslims who are a problem (unless you can prove it genuinely is only Muslims of course).
The point was though, a great many Muslims living and working in the UK don't have a problem with our modern society it seems. They get on with their lives, send their kids to school, live their lives, run business or work for others etc. all without the fact they are Muslim getting in the way. So to them at least, they have no problem being Muslim in a modern, democratic Western country like the UK. If all of Islam and it's followers were like Red says we'd be in far more trouble with extremism than we are now surely, given that there are something like one and a half million Muslims here.
By that logic I could be replying to a serial killer. I can't say for sure.
In reality I'm willing to trust you as far as believing you say who you say you are and about what your ideals and opinions are. And that's what we all are doing.
I don't need to know your name to know your mind and how opposite I am to what you believe.
Sorry but you don't half talk a load of nonsense. You really have no idea what a Muslim man is let alone a Muslim woman. Your skewed ideas are dangerously wrong.
And yes, of course Christianity has had to modernise and adapt. But there are still Christians who have old fashioned, misogynistic and sometimes violent views. Thankfully in most Western countries such people are now extremely rare, and becoming rarer every year. Most modern Christians just get on with their lives today.
But likewise there are those amongst the Muslim communities in the UK who also hold far more modern views and principals than others in their community. There are a great many modern, moderate Islamic scholars around the UK trying to change the attitudes of some who they feel need their attitudes changed. Whether it be changing their attitude to women, to non Muslims, to extremism etc. etc. Unfortunately their voices aren't as loud as the idiots and extremists, as is always the case. The tabloid press isn't very good at reporting such things. So yes, there are Muslims who want to, and are trying to modernise and see no problem with their religion having relevance in a modern, Western, democratic country. To say that the whole of islam (and therefore, by default, all of it's followers) aren't compatible with the West and Western values is wrong. It can be, and they can be, because a great many of them already are. It might be a slow process in some areas of the country and amongst some groups or communities, but I would say those trying to modernise Islam need our help and support rather than our vilification just because they are still Muslim.
I can only go by what they have posted, and to me they don't seem to fit your stereotypical view of Muslims at all. Now unless you think they are lying when they post on here I don't see how you can still think that all of Islam and it's followers are incompatible with the West. They seem perfectly happy to be living in the UK, like the people, the culture and the values and don't seem to have a problem being British and being Muslim. And I have met many Muslims out in the real World who are it appears, just the same. I can't comment on those from other cities, but here in and around Wakefield, for the most part they live, work and even socialise amongst the rest of the population. So they appear to have modernised and integrated don't they?, while still remaining Muslim.
Now I am not, for one minutes, saying all is rosy and wonderful, of course it isn't. There are still those who hold extremist views on both sides around here. But the Wakefield Central Mosque is more than happy for non Muslims who are interested to go along and speak to them, to visit the mosque and ask questions. They appear to be fully aware of the negative image Islam currently has, and seem to feel the way to counter that image is to engage with those who want to question them rather than ignore the issue.
You could say it was his parting gift to me.
So he's been banned again? Shame. Seriously.
Permanently this time.
I've never spent 'ages' at all saying I never generalise, where did that come from? When talking about a whole religion/culture you can't do anything but generalise. Of course I talk about individual incidents as well, but I really have no idea where you are coming from with this one. Perhaps DS should introduce software that blocks people from telling blatant lies?
I think we're at cross-purposes here. I'm talking about the incompability of a whole religion/culture and how it's belief system is at odds with western culture, and have never said that all of it's individual followers are incompatible with the west. That would be plain silly, not to mention, impossible. I'm talking about the bigger picture and not a 'names and addresses' scenario as you seem to be
Due to this obvious incompatibilty, islamic-based social unrest has become quite common not only in the UK but widespread across Europe, with recent riots in Sweden, France, Holland, plus other countries (the latest from Germany a few days ago), the Danish cartoon nonsense, the minarets issue in Switzerland - seemingly every country in Europe has had to deal with issues of one kind or another involving muslims.
But of course not every single individual muslim is a terrorist, rioter or a child rapist, but for whatever reason the religion/culture breeds plenty of individuals who are - and it's that bigger picture we should be looking at, and for you to attempt to dismiss that argument by claiming two FMs on DS seem 'ok' is an incredibly weak response
Ask yourself why hardly any, maybe even none at all, people from the same racial group, namely sikhs, hindus and buddhists are ever involved in similar incidents. The alarm bells should be ringing and telling you thare has to be something in islam that's creating all these problems
If you really don't feel there is any incompatibilty, here's a few pics from last weeks German riots to help you along:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=028_1335978589
That would be the protest against the far right wing party in Germany then? The PRO-NRW:
"The party advocates law and order; lowering the age of criminal responsibility from 14 to 12 years of age; deportation of illegal immigrants, and the segregation of students with insufficient German language proficiency."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Germany_Citizens%27_Movement
The ones who 'in September 2008, Pro Cologne organised the Anti-Islamisation Congress'?
The were protesting about people who are 'considered a far-right movement on the fringes of right-wing extremism and right-wing populism. Racist as well as antisemitic strands, authoritarian ideas and the rejection of equality and discrimination of minorities in activities of pro Germany, particularly the campaigning against "multiculturalism", building of mosques and minarets.'
That would be what they were protesting about then?
Do you support they PRO-NRW?
It's similar to the EDL/muslim clashes in the UK. Are you making excuses for the muslims who stabbed the policemen because a far right group were in the vicinity?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/05/germany-devout-muslims-attack-police-at-free-speech-rally.html
http://tundratabloids.com/2012/05/riots-by-salafists-in-bonn-germany.html
http://www.thelocal.de/society/20120506-42379.html
It's more trouble involving muslims whatever way you want to dress it up
Well I provide you links to Wikipedia, you provide me links to a far right, racist, anti muslim website. What else am I supposed to think?
I bow out of any form of debate with you. I'll risk a permaban saying that you sir have the biggest agenda on Digital Spy, and I'd have more chance of converting Nick Griffin than making any head way with you, so enjoy your far right web sites that you so obviously frequent.
It's another clear cut example of islamic-based public disorder in the west
Interesting how you had to avoid defending the undependable. The nonsense is you not acknowledging that the culture and atmosphere created of sexism by such religions damns itself. Why are those cultures so paranoid about protecting their women from even their own men that they have to resort to such ridiculous measures as covering them from head to toe at times, its a tacit acknowledgement that those cultures create predators. Your avoidance of the facts are dangerous, people see right through insincerity. If you honestly look behind such ideology you see the truth, all the measures and theology boil down to this, they don't even trust their own men.
It's a bit of a blunt argument though Pocatello. By extension I could argue that the Roman Catholic Church thinks Nuns are more likely to get sexually abused than laywomen.
Warning some scenes might be distressing
This is not political it is how fundamental muslims live, and how they would like us to exist under Sharia law. It is a male dominated society with little if no respect or justice for women.
In europe they have to abide by our laws, what if they were allowed to introduce their laws into muslim communities here as some have called for, how long would it be before we would feel the effects.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftxsv6BBxes&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emMrn9ja5iU&feature=endscreen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbPhTnQcNu0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGtRVugNjcY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J_cqtdH26c&feature=related
That would be the true face of funamental muslims then... not as you initially advertised.
How many times have discussions like this been conducted on DS and what did it ever accomplish? The same old arguments over and over. We know that everyone is right. Not all boys called Adolf are mass murderers, but some people happen to know one who is and want to protect their loved ones just in case. How is this ever going to be solved? What must and can be done to prevent good people, who both want the same thing, from becoming enemies?
It was really sad to see two friends in this thread, one a forum friend, the other a real life friend, have a go at each other, although both of them resolved it in a way that gives hope for real life situations as well.
If we could take a closer look at where this kind of gang behaviour starts, it could very well be that it’s inequality, isolation or discrimination itself that lies at the bottom of this kind of behaviour. And if there are elements of that involved, it’s not an excuse for bad behaviour, it’s not an apology, but surely further isolation or discrimination or whatever, is not going to be a solution. Instantly correcting individual behaviour, without attributing that behaviour to religion or race, seems to be the only way forward.
It will be of people's interest here to watch BBC1 tomorrow morning as this subject is up for question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1WXEERCvWYE#t=77s