Its been less than ten hours since the final vote was declared how fast do you want the vow put into practice ? (And whether it is will depend on which party wins the 2015 election IMO)
Cameron has now backtracked and refused to commit to it and has put caveats on The Vow of further Scottish devolution.
You be pessimistic if you want.
I am optimistic that change will come (subject to the GE result) and it won't only be Scotland that gets it but England, Wales and Northern Ireland too - and that is how it should be IMO
The three pro-union parties have made commitments, clear commitments, on further powers for the Scottish Parliament. We will ensure that they are honoured in full.
And I can announce today that Lord Smith of Kelvin – who so successfully led Glasgow’s Commonwealth Games – has agreed to oversee the process to take forward the devolution commitments with powers over tax, spending and welfare all agreed by November and draft legislation published by January.
Cameron has not backtracked, or refused to commit to or put cavets on what he and the other party leaders vowed to before the referendum vote. He has said it will be done in full and is sticking to the time table.
Salmond's speech after defeat
I spoke to the Prime Minister today and, although he reiterated his intention to proceed as he has outlined, he would not commit to a second reading vote by 27th March on a Scotland Bill. That was a clear promise laid out by Gordon Brown during the campaign. The Prime Minister says such a vote would be meaningless. I suspect he cannot guarantee the support of his party
The Vow was second reading immediately after the 2015 election (UK general election on 7th May). Salmond is casting aspersions on Cameron's integrity based on the second reading not being by 27th March a date Cameron and the other party leaders never vowed to, they vowed to the second reading being immediately after the 2015 UK general election.
No wonder the 'Yes' did not happen they live in fantasy land a magic place you just wave your wand and things happen over night.
Scotland will get some extra power but what powers these are have yet to be agreed and they need to be voted through. We don't live a dictatorship we have to follow due process and it might take a bit of time.
Personally I think the timetable is far to rushed but you might get some extra powers by then with the follow action plan for the whole country. Rome was not built in a day.
Cameron has not backtracked, or refused to commit to or put cavets on what he and the other party leaders vowed to before the referendum vote. He has said it will be done in full and is sticking to the time table.
Salmond's speech after defeat
I spoke to the Prime Minister today and, although he reiterated his intention to proceed as he has outlined, he would not commit to a second reading vote by 27th March on a Scotland Bill. That was a clear promise laid out by Gordon Brown during the campaign. The Prime Minister says such a vote would be meaningless. I suspect he cannot guarantee the support of his party
Gordon Brown is a back-bench MP who has no rights to promise, or power to bind Parliament to anything. The timetable you provided is more reasonable. The proposals will be ready by end of January and the next government can legislate the draft into an Act, or revise it. It means all the UK parties can review it, and work it (or alternatives) into their manifestos for the general election.
Which would be the correct democratic approach. Salmond doesn't like it, but then Salmond's political style probably contributed heavily towards his party's defeat last night.
What a curious world we live in. 3 days ago the leaders of the Yes campaign and Yes supporters here on DS were queuing up here to tell that any promises coming out of Westminster weren't worth a dime.
Now 3 days later, those same people who dismissed the promises have decided they're hugely important after all.
❱❱ Holyrood will be strengthened with extensive new powers, on a timetable beginning on September 19, with legislation in 2015.
❱❱ The Scottish Parliament will be a permanent and irreversible part of the British constitution.
Guarantee Two
❱❱ The guarantee of fairness to Scotland.
❱❱ The guarantee that the modern purpose of the Union is to ensure opportunity and security by pooling and sharing our resources equitably for our defence, prosperity and the social and economic welfare of every citizen, including through UK pensions and UK funding of healthcare.
Guarantee Three
❱❱ The power to spend more on the NHS if that is Scottish people’s will.
❱❱ The guarantee that with the continued Barnett allocation, based on need and with the power to raise its own funds, the final decisions on spending on public services in Scotland, including on the NHS, will be made by the Scottish Parliament.
❱❱ The Scottish Parliament will have the last word on how much is spent on health. It will have the power to keep the NHS in public hands and the capacity to protect it.
So extensive new powers... are what new powers exactly?
Guarantee 2 is equally lightweight, and Guarantee 3 is also nothing new given spending on the NHS is already devolved. So it can (and does) spend more in some areas, like free prescriptions. But the spending would have to come from Scotland's budget.
Any meat would come in the draft legislation, and it may not (and probably wont) include all the things the 'Yes' voters want.
What a curious world we live in. 3 days ago the leaders of the Yes campaign and Yes supporters here on DS were queuing up here to tell that any promises coming out of Westminster weren't worth a dime.
Now 3 days later, those same people who dismissed the promises have decided they're hugely important after all.
We warned that their promises were not to be trusted. It is looking like we were right.
However this does not mean that we shouldn't hold them to The Vow.
We warned that their promises were not to be trusted. It is looking like we were right.
However this does not mean that we shouldn't hold them to The Vow.
The above are not mutually exclusive.
The process hasn't even got off the mark yet.
To be fair, we should be having this discussion after the general election, as I don't want the next government to inherit something that they didn't sort out themselves, hence the blame game all over again. With the next government in power, anything they do will be their responsibility. Now that Scotland is still the UK, isn't this what people would want to see happen, that the next government's actions are their doing with no one to blame.
The majority of people who voted NO, wasn't doing so because of powers alone, it was because the YES didn't have a solid plan. The YES campaign had no idea what currency the would use, they were unclear if they would be part of the EU, they didn't know what will happen to the pensions and was unclear on a lot of questions on the economy.
All 3 parties agree more powers with be devolved, it'll be a matter of time.
We warned that their promises were not to be trusted. It is looking like we were right.
However this does not mean that we shouldn't hold them to The Vow.
The above are not mutually exclusive.
What Vow would that be? Brown's is worthless. He has no authority to promise anything. He is an absentee from Parliament and is not a Party leader.
The Labour Party, the Conservative Party and the LibDems each have different ideas on the matter. And nothing can change until Parliament sits and has already been pointed out to you, Parliament is in recess for the Conference Season until mid-October.
Ovalteenie
Posts: 24,169
Comments
Still bitter I see.
Some things never change.
Its been less than ten hours since the final vote was declared how fast do you want the vow put into practice ? (And whether it is will depend on which party wins the 2015 election IMO)
Cameron has now backtracked and refused to commit to it and has put caveats on The Vow of further Scottish devolution.
You think fast track means 10 hours?
what world do you live in?
You be pessimistic if you want.
I am optimistic that change will come (subject to the GE result) and it won't only be Scotland that gets it but England, Wales and Northern Ireland too - and that is how it should be IMO
Whoa there cowboy, not so fast, it's still only results day.
Whilst lt it wouldn't surprise me I need to see more than just your vague allegation. Got a link?
David Cameron speech after victory. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11108256/Scottish-independence-David-Camerons-speech-in-full.html
Cameron has not backtracked, or refused to commit to or put cavets on what he and the other party leaders vowed to before the referendum vote. He has said it will be done in full and is sticking to the time table.
Salmond's speech after defeat
The Vow was second reading immediately after the 2015 election (UK general election on 7th May). Salmond is casting aspersions on Cameron's integrity based on the second reading not being by 27th March a date Cameron and the other party leaders never vowed to, they vowed to the second reading being immediately after the 2015 UK general election.
It's Party Conference season. Parliament is not sitting.
Conference 12 September 2014 13 October 2014
Scotland will get some extra power but what powers these are have yet to be agreed and they need to be voted through. We don't live a dictatorship we have to follow due process and it might take a bit of time.
Personally I think the timetable is far to rushed but you might get some extra powers by then with the follow action plan for the whole country. Rome was not built in a day.
What has Brown got to do with it? He isn't the leader of any political party and as he never attends Parliament he wont be there when it's debated..
Gordon Brown is a back-bench MP who has no rights to promise, or power to bind Parliament to anything. The timetable you provided is more reasonable. The proposals will be ready by end of January and the next government can legislate the draft into an Act, or revise it. It means all the UK parties can review it, and work it (or alternatives) into their manifestos for the general election.
Which would be the correct democratic approach. Salmond doesn't like it, but then Salmond's political style probably contributed heavily towards his party's defeat last night.
Good luck getting the trolls to agree with that!
In short what we have seen week in, week out from this government - with Ed adding to it
anyone
Good luck with that. 1.5m people want some unspecified new powers vs 55m or so people who also get a vote.
But exactly what new powers should be in the 'Vow'? Or draft Scotland Bill 2015, the latest in the previously established devolution roadmap.
For England, it could include solving the West Lothian question, and revising Barnett so it's more equitable.
Well, if there's no delivery then I imagine the next SNP Government will simply call another referendum.
why bother
we should simply TAKE independence
as the delivery of promises simply didn't happen
Now 3 days later, those same people who dismissed the promises have decided they're hugely important after all.
But what does it mean? Or what would Scotland want? Found text here-
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron-ed-miliband-nick-4265992
Promises
Guarantee One
❱❱ New powers for the Scottish Parliament.
❱❱ Holyrood will be strengthened with extensive new powers, on a timetable beginning on September 19, with legislation in 2015.
❱❱ The Scottish Parliament will be a permanent and irreversible part of the British constitution.
Guarantee Two
❱❱ The guarantee of fairness to Scotland.
❱❱ The guarantee that the modern purpose of the Union is to ensure opportunity and security by pooling and sharing our resources equitably for our defence, prosperity and the social and economic welfare of every citizen, including through UK pensions and UK funding of healthcare.
Guarantee Three
❱❱ The power to spend more on the NHS if that is Scottish people’s will.
❱❱ The guarantee that with the continued Barnett allocation, based on need and with the power to raise its own funds, the final decisions on spending on public services in Scotland, including on the NHS, will be made by the Scottish Parliament.
❱❱ The Scottish Parliament will have the last word on how much is spent on health. It will have the power to keep the NHS in public hands and the capacity to protect it.
So extensive new powers... are what new powers exactly?
Guarantee 2 is equally lightweight, and Guarantee 3 is also nothing new given spending on the NHS is already devolved. So it can (and does) spend more in some areas, like free prescriptions. But the spending would have to come from Scotland's budget.
Any meat would come in the draft legislation, and it may not (and probably wont) include all the things the 'Yes' voters want.
However this does not mean that we shouldn't hold them to The Vow.
The above are not mutually exclusive.
The process hasn't even got off the mark yet.
To be fair, we should be having this discussion after the general election, as I don't want the next government to inherit something that they didn't sort out themselves, hence the blame game all over again. With the next government in power, anything they do will be their responsibility. Now that Scotland is still the UK, isn't this what people would want to see happen, that the next government's actions are their doing with no one to blame.
The majority of people who voted NO, wasn't doing so because of powers alone, it was because the YES didn't have a solid plan. The YES campaign had no idea what currency the would use, they were unclear if they would be part of the EU, they didn't know what will happen to the pensions and was unclear on a lot of questions on the economy.
All 3 parties agree more powers with be devolved, it'll be a matter of time.
What Vow would that be? Brown's is worthless. He has no authority to promise anything. He is an absentee from Parliament and is not a Party leader.
The Labour Party, the Conservative Party and the LibDems each have different ideas on the matter. And nothing can change until Parliament sits and has already been pointed out to you, Parliament is in recess for the Conference Season until mid-October.
Well of course he has, it was only said to get a No vote victory.