Options
Never received item/Paypal dispute
Hi,
Hoping somebody with some knowledge of a similar matter can possibly help me out here. To cut to the chase I placed an order for a watch online on 27/11/14, it was coming from a company in Germany but never arrived.
Even though it was purchased and paid for several days before, the watch was (allegedly) handed to DHL to be sent to me on 4/12/14. No tracking number was provided and I had to hunt that up which I eventually got but from the 5/12/14 all tracking details have shown.... "The international shipment has been processed in the export parcel center" and that is where all tracking details have went cold. I contacted the seller a few times to see if they could shed some light, I contacted Parcelforce with which parcel was meant to be handed over to from DHL (???), attempted to contact DHL Germany but you can imagine where that went, and DHL uk couldn't help either because all they could see is same details as I.
After exhausting every conceivable avenue I was left with no other option other than considering submitting a Paypal claim. So I recently submitted a PP claim and was convinced PP would get me my money back seeing as I'd never received the item plus the tracking details back that up, but how wrong was I.
Received an email from Paypal little over half an hour ago outling the following which I have copied and pasted below.....
In response to your claim, the seller has provided proof of postage
indicating that the item was sent to you. Because the seller was able to
provide proof of postage, we cannot reverse this transaction or issue a
refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller to
amicably resolve this matter.
PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has
been noted in the record of the PayPal member you reported. If we find this
member has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate
action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status
of this complaint.
To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click Security located at the top of any page. There you
will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the "Fraud Prevention
Tips for Buyers" section.
Yours sincerely,
PayPal
What can I do now folks if anything, or will I put it down to a bad experience? I can't send a email back to seller for they'll not take one blind bit of notice now, not after PP favoured them. I'm badly let down especially at PP who I believe should have backed me on this one. The watch was just shy of 400 quid and I feel I'll never see a penny of that back. With regards the watch, well I'm convinced I'll never see that back and also I believe it was stolen at DHL warehouse but I'll never prove that. I feel so cheated.
Hoping somebody with some knowledge of a similar matter can possibly help me out here. To cut to the chase I placed an order for a watch online on 27/11/14, it was coming from a company in Germany but never arrived.
Even though it was purchased and paid for several days before, the watch was (allegedly) handed to DHL to be sent to me on 4/12/14. No tracking number was provided and I had to hunt that up which I eventually got but from the 5/12/14 all tracking details have shown.... "The international shipment has been processed in the export parcel center" and that is where all tracking details have went cold. I contacted the seller a few times to see if they could shed some light, I contacted Parcelforce with which parcel was meant to be handed over to from DHL (???), attempted to contact DHL Germany but you can imagine where that went, and DHL uk couldn't help either because all they could see is same details as I.
After exhausting every conceivable avenue I was left with no other option other than considering submitting a Paypal claim. So I recently submitted a PP claim and was convinced PP would get me my money back seeing as I'd never received the item plus the tracking details back that up, but how wrong was I.
Received an email from Paypal little over half an hour ago outling the following which I have copied and pasted below.....
In response to your claim, the seller has provided proof of postage
indicating that the item was sent to you. Because the seller was able to
provide proof of postage, we cannot reverse this transaction or issue a
refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller to
amicably resolve this matter.
PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has
been noted in the record of the PayPal member you reported. If we find this
member has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate
action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status
of this complaint.
To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click Security located at the top of any page. There you
will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the "Fraud Prevention
Tips for Buyers" section.
Yours sincerely,
PayPal
What can I do now folks if anything, or will I put it down to a bad experience? I can't send a email back to seller for they'll not take one blind bit of notice now, not after PP favoured them. I'm badly let down especially at PP who I believe should have backed me on this one. The watch was just shy of 400 quid and I feel I'll never see a penny of that back. With regards the watch, well I'm convinced I'll never see that back and also I believe it was stolen at DHL warehouse but I'll never prove that. I feel so cheated.
0
Comments
That was going to be my next point, my PP card is my Santander Visa, but why do I suspect it's a debit card more than credit card even though it does state Visa on front. Anyway it's the only card I've got from Santander and it's my current account card so whether Santander combine the Visa/Debit card I have no idea. When it comes to banking cards I don't pay much heed to be honest and just use it when I have to.
I might have to contact Santander to hear what they say if all else fails.
I thought the responsibility of the seller was to see it got to you not that it was dispatched? An item that expensive should have been sent via a recorded method with insurance.
Thanks going to have to move this to next level and contact Bank to see what can be done because this whole saga is stressing me out.
Just goes to show folks, don't trust Paypal to do the right thing. It's in black and white I didn't receive my watch and all tracking details are lost from 5/12/14 and item still with DHL yet Paypal choose to back the seller because they submitted a (potentially fraudulent) tracking number. Here's me paying via PP expecting to be covered against fraud and items going missing; well I've learned a sorry lesson today big style.
Visa does not automatically mean Credit Card. I have two "Visa" cards in my wallet, one Debit and one Credit. If your card has your bank branch sort code and account number embossed onto it then it is more than likely a Debit card.
See http://www.visa.co.uk/products/visa-card-payments/
Yes but Visa has a scheme similar to credit card protection for debit cards.
I repeat, that I'm surprised that Paypal have responded in the way that they have. It really is unusual and not in their terms of service. Responsibility lies with the Seller until the item is placed in the hands of the Buyer. I would be going back to Paypal after a very close scrutiny of their terms and discussion with members on the EBay forums.
Any half way decent neighbour would have been round banging on the OP's door long ago to hand over any parcel if it had been delivered. So if no-one has I rather doubt any neighbour who has decided to keep the parcel for themselves is going to say they have it now sadly.
I could safely say that most certainly didn't happen. I've great neighbours and it wouldn't be the 1st time I've taken parcels on behalf of them and they've done likewise with no issues. As a matter of fact just 2 weeks ago a DHL van was delivering to next door and I knew my neighbour wasn't at home so went out and got parcel for my neighbour to save him the palaver of awaiting redelivery and still not being at home when DHL called once again.
Anyway, delivery driver only gave me parcel on receipt of a signature so my point is if somebody has my watch a signature can be pulled up upon request. I was telling the DHL guy the problem I was having and he asked me for tracking number so he could track it on his hand held, he was getting the exact same info as I was, tracking lost from 5/12/14
I was always of the belief that was still the case until today, an item wasn't delivered until it was actually delivered and proof provided via a signature. Unless I got a jobsworth Paypal recruit dealing with my case who hasn't a clue because this whole situation regarding Paypal has left me stunned to be honest.
Not sure if I picked you up wrong and I apologise if I have, but you mentioned ebay, I didn't purchase the watch on ebay if that's indeed what you meant but ebay and Paypal are now one and the same I guess.
I always heard ebay and Paypal favoured the buyer in disputes especially when the evidence is clear cut - yeah right!
the Payment Recipient to present evidence that the Payment Recipient delivered to/performed for the buyer the purchase as agreed with the buyer. If the Payment Recipient presents such evidence, PayPal may find in favour of the Payment Recipient even if the buyer claims to have not received the purchase.
Yes but the seller has not got evidence that the item was delivered, just that it was posted. I don't understand PayPal's stance on this.
they have been given in black and white the transactions of the money being paid to argos from the paypal account and still state the money never left the account...
I swear How pay pal are still operating I don't know they don't seem to Grasp the basic concepts of being a money service,
what I have found out trading standards in Richmond deal with Pay pal and ebay (because that's the same area those companies are based). If you ring this number explain the problems apparently its sent onto that office and theres an officer there that deal with pay pal related issues.
08454 04 05 06 Consumer direct (basically new name for trading standards). Don't give up my brother wanted to do the same but we are finally getting somewhere now.
Thanks for that number, that'll be my next shot should Santander fail to get my money back. I'm holding out hope they'll not be as incompetent as Paypal and will retrieve my cash.
When I submitted the Paypal claim a few days ago I was as confident as a Hollywood smile I was getting my cash back, there was no way I could have foreseen this bombshell.
http://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/international-buyer-and-seller-protection-programmes
Are you in contact with the seller? The item is clearly lost, so you should be able to claim from DHL... The claim should come from the seller, but if you have all the information, it may be worth explaining the situation to DHL if going through you bank doesn't work (PayPal isn't covered by a lot of banks for charge backs unfortunately, as it is a third party).
Have left my original reply, in case it's of use to anyone browsing this thread for general PayPal advice....
There are 2 types of dispute you can open with PayPal.
The first category is Item not received (INR) (or Significantly not as described (SNAD), but not relevant here) these are what most people are referring to when they say they have opened a dispute.
The second category is a fraudulent transaction case. In effect you are claiming that you did not authorise the transaction, you believe your account was hacked.
In the former the seller requires proof of delivery to win the case, in the later only proof of postage is required to win (i.e. proof the item was sent to an address registered to the PayPal account is deemed sufficient).
From the reply it seems as though PayPal have treated your claim as a 'fraudulent transaction' rather than 'item not received'. I'd have a look in the case summary in your PayPal account to check what dispute type was opened, then give them a call to find out what has happened. You should be able to argue this with them as a seller cannot win an INR case without proof of delivery.
I don't think person reviewing case knew what they were doing, I'd love to know what experience they have at reviewing cases because it doesn't bode well for the next person if I lost my case when it was bang to rights. Personally I wouldn't have opened the claim with anything other than 'item not received' because that's precisely what it was, but I took the liberty of checking my account just now and case reason is 'Non-receipt'
Status
After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favour at this time.
If you've received the item but it's not as described by the seller, you can appeal this decision.
I should have claimed item was broken and lied through my teeth, maybe they'd have believed that and my bank account could be £400 of my own money better off tonight - I'll know for again.
Personally I'd love for the Bank to swoop SAS style into the sellers account, grab it and run, that'd make my year.
They will submit a Request For Information (RFI) which will hit Paypal and it turn the merchant. This will be the merchant's opportunity to provide information to defend you claim (without a proof of delivery I would say they are stuffed). Assuming they can't defend the claim successfully, your bank will have the money back, so the funds will stay in your account.
There's some detailed info here, though bear in mind it is written from the merchant perspective. http://www.cybmerchantservices.co.uk/merchant-services/support/operating-instructions/chargebacks