That was great ! Thanks for the link. Though I realize there are so many things to know which are not in the New Series.
The whole thing of the Time War and Time Lords being time locked definitely cut off a lot of his background. But at the same time it really emphasises his loneliness by comparison.
I just bought The Invasion. I hope to have it delivered next week and I'll be glad to share my thoughts here.
I wouldn't say it's vital to know all this stuff, The Doctor's personal continuity and backstory got so confused over the years personally I think cutting it out via the Time War was a master stroke.
I'd also say that it includes things that are controversial and even stuff that wasn't included in the TV series. The thing is that just because the Doctor says something, it doesn't mean that it's true. I think that him saying he was born under the sign of the crossed computers is a clear example of him joking.
The half-human thing is very contentious. The only time it's ever been said is in the TV Movie, and the events of "Journey's End" implicitly contradict it, even if they don't explicitly contradict it. It's certainly true that the current production team counted him as fully alien. But, as that's not been stated explicitly on screen, it doesn't really matter what they think, as a new team is coming in. Certainly, there are plenty of fan explanations around the half-human idea, and it's something that people should make their own minds up about, rather than just taking it as gospel.
As for the "far more than another Time Lord" bit, that's not actually from the programme at all. I forget what that's from, whether it's a trailer or part of a documentary or something, but it's definitely not something that has ever been said on screen. It was the intention of the production team at the time of the 7th Doctor but, if it's not explicitly on screen, then it doesn't matter what previous teams intended. If it did, then Troughton wouldn't be a different incarnation to Hartnell, he'd simply be younger. And Pertwee would be the same incarnation again, just looking different.
So, while it is a good little video (all of Babelcolour's videos are excellent - check out this one, which features a clip from every story), it shouldn't be taken as the undisputed truth.
As for the "far more than another Time Lord" bit, that's not actually from the programme at all. I forget what that's from, whether it's a trailer or part of a documentary or something, but it's definitely not something that has ever been said on screen. It was the intention of the production team at the time of the 7th Doctor but, if it's not explicitly on screen,
It is said however in a deleted scene from "Remembrance Of The Daleks" that was cut due to running time.
So yes he is supposed to be more than just a Time Lord
Does anyone know what stories the clips of the 6th Doctor wearing a mask and the 7th with the Guitar are from?
Trying to work out if they are ones I've seen but just can't remember or if they are ones I've never seen.
From all the times it gets mentioned in online discussions I always thought the "More than just a Timelord" line was from the aired episode, never realised it was a deleted scene.
They are both stories I have grown to like, wasn't fussy on either when I first saw them. Quite fond of both of them now.
I agree with 'Delta And The Bannermen' - I hated it upon transmission (not much in there to appeal to an angsty teenager), but, once past adolescence, you see it for what it is - a bit of fun!
Can't say that about 'Vengeance On Varos' - I find it such a mean-spirited tale, it's a chore to watch.
I'd also say that it includes things that are controversial and even stuff that wasn't included in the TV series. The thing is that just because the Doctor says something, it doesn't mean that it's true. I think that him saying he was born under the sign of the crossed computers is a clear example of him joking.
Yes, it's the same with that clip from Time And The Rani where he and the other geniuses are connected via the giant brain. The other voices say something about "time being relative" and the Doctor replies "You wouldn't say that if you met my uncle!". That always crops up on a list of the Doctor's potential relatives, when he's quite clearly just coming out with random gibberish to disrupt their computations.
Of the existing DVDs already out there, the following directly tie in with (or are referenced by) the current incarnation of Doctor Who...
Hartnell - The Beginning boxset (shows his origins and The Daleks features, well, you know...), Dalek Invasion Of Earth.
Troughton - The Tomb Of The Cybermen, The Invasion (also with Cybermen).
Hartnell & Troughton - Lost In Time (plenty of incomplete stories, some with Daleks and Cybermen)
Pertwee - Spearhead From Space (first appearance of the Autons), The Claws Of Axos ("Axons! Remember the Axons?!"), The Carnival Of Monsters (sort of appearance by Cybermen), The Time Warrior (first appearance of Sontarans & Sarah Jane Smith!).
Baker - The Sontaran Experiment, Genesis Of The Daleks (first appearance of Davros), The Hand Of Fear (Sarah Jane Smith's sad departure), The Invasion Of Time (Sontarans and Gallifrey), Horror Of Fang Rock (features the Sontaran's eternal foe, the Rutons), Destiny Of The Daleks (Daleks and Davros), New Beginnings boxset (Logopolis shows The Master finally getting the better of The Doctor!).
Davison - Earthshock (Cybermen), Resurrection Of The Daleks (Daleks and Davros), The Five Doctors (features all Doctors, many past companions including Sarah Jane, Cybermen, The Master AND a lone Dalek!).
Baker - The Two Doctors (features Hartnell and Sontarans), Revelation Of The Daleks (Daleks and Davros)
McCoy - Remembrance Of The Daleks (Daleks, Davros and Coal Hill School from the very first episode!)
McGann - The Movie (features, well, not much really but the last and only time you see McGann before Ecclestone appears...)
Hope this helps. This is a kind of criteria I use to limit which DVDs I buy since it is the new series I really am a fan of but there are some other good stories too, like The Time Meddler, The War Machines, The Mind Robber, The Sea Devils, Inferno, Talons Of Weng Chiang, plus plenty more yet to see a DVD release.
God knows why I wrote Hartnell, I know it's Troughton, after all he is possibly my favourite Doctor!
Didn't mention The Master since he appears in oh so many stories. I wonder what would have happened if Roger Delgado hadn't died. Would Pertwee have carried on? Would The Master have continued as a stalwart into the Tom Baker era? I guess we'll never know.
As for the hair, well, it was the 60s. People complain that the new series references pop culture too much, conveniently forgetting that the 2nd Doctor had a Beatle cut...
Yes, but at least Delgado never did a dance to Herman's Hermits. Although maybe some people think he should have done. :eek:
Didn't mention The Master since he appears in oh so many stories. I wonder what would have happened if Roger Delgado hadn't died. Would Pertwee have carried on? Would The Master have continued as a stalwart into the Tom Baker era? I guess we'll never know.
We do know. Delgado was already planning to leave the series. He was due to appear in one final adventure, in which the Master would have been killed. So, in fact, the sad death of Roger Delgado also had the effect of enabling the character to continue in the future, albeit played by different actors.
That's not to say that he couldn't have been brought back.
Like Davros was brought back after his apparent death at the end of Genesis? Yes, I suppose you're right.
However, I was simply explaining to girliedrinker that Delgado was planning to leave anyway.
As it turned out, the Hinchcliffe-Holmes team didn't want the Master to be a regular feature of their period (Hinchcliffe said on the Pyramids of Mars DVD that he felt the character had been overused), featuring him only in The Deadly Assassin, and Graham Williams never used him at all. So if JNT had never become producer, the character might have been laid to rest.
Pity that Terror of the Autons isn't on DVD yet, since it's the first appearance of the Master. Desperate individuals like myself still have to seek out a tatty used VHS. :rolleyes:
Comments
The whole thing of the Time War and Time Lords being time locked definitely cut off a lot of his background. But at the same time it really emphasises his loneliness by comparison.
I just bought The Invasion. I hope to have it delivered next week and I'll be glad to share my thoughts here.
Sure is fun though!
The half-human thing is very contentious. The only time it's ever been said is in the TV Movie, and the events of "Journey's End" implicitly contradict it, even if they don't explicitly contradict it. It's certainly true that the current production team counted him as fully alien. But, as that's not been stated explicitly on screen, it doesn't really matter what they think, as a new team is coming in. Certainly, there are plenty of fan explanations around the half-human idea, and it's something that people should make their own minds up about, rather than just taking it as gospel.
As for the "far more than another Time Lord" bit, that's not actually from the programme at all. I forget what that's from, whether it's a trailer or part of a documentary or something, but it's definitely not something that has ever been said on screen. It was the intention of the production team at the time of the 7th Doctor but, if it's not explicitly on screen, then it doesn't matter what previous teams intended. If it did, then Troughton wouldn't be a different incarnation to Hartnell, he'd simply be younger. And Pertwee would be the same incarnation again, just looking different.
So, while it is a good little video (all of Babelcolour's videos are excellent - check out this one, which features a clip from every story), it shouldn't be taken as the undisputed truth.
It is said however in a deleted scene from "Remembrance Of The Daleks" that was cut due to running time.
So yes he is supposed to be more than just a Time Lord
He was supposed to be but, as you say, it never made it to screen. What was supposed to be the case isn't relevant to what is the case.
Does anyone know what stories the clips of the 6th Doctor wearing a mask and the 7th with the Guitar are from?
Trying to work out if they are ones I've seen but just can't remember or if they are ones I've never seen.
From all the times it gets mentioned in online discussions I always thought the "More than just a Timelord" line was from the aired episode, never realised it was a deleted scene.
Baker - Vengeance on Varos
McCoy - Delta and the Bannermen
Thanks.
Certainly have never seen Delta atB before, VoV I believe I saw part of but maybe not the whole thing.
My DW viewing during the 6th/7th Doctors period was somewhat fragmented.
No Problem
They are both stories I have grown to like, wasn't fussy on either when I first saw them. Quite fond of both of them now.
I agree with 'Delta And The Bannermen' - I hated it upon transmission (not much in there to appeal to an angsty teenager), but, once past adolescence, you see it for what it is - a bit of fun!
Can't say that about 'Vengeance On Varos' - I find it such a mean-spirited tale, it's a chore to watch.
Regards,
Cypher
... Definitely helping new viewers here
That bit's definitely true.
Spearhead from Space
Claws of Axos
The Time Warrior
Genesis of the Daleks
Brain of Morbius
Talons of wen Chi ang
Destiny of the Daleks
Earthshock
BTW, Solamenn, how are you getting on with old Who? Have you watched any more?
Hartnell - The Beginning boxset (shows his origins and The Daleks features, well, you know...), Dalek Invasion Of Earth.
Troughton - The Tomb Of The Cybermen, The Invasion (also with Cybermen).
Hartnell & Troughton - Lost In Time (plenty of incomplete stories, some with Daleks and Cybermen)
Pertwee - Spearhead From Space (first appearance of the Autons), The Claws Of Axos ("Axons! Remember the Axons?!"), The Carnival Of Monsters (sort of appearance by Cybermen), The Time Warrior (first appearance of Sontarans & Sarah Jane Smith!).
Baker - The Sontaran Experiment, Genesis Of The Daleks (first appearance of Davros), The Hand Of Fear (Sarah Jane Smith's sad departure), The Invasion Of Time (Sontarans and Gallifrey), Horror Of Fang Rock (features the Sontaran's eternal foe, the Rutons), Destiny Of The Daleks (Daleks and Davros), New Beginnings boxset (Logopolis shows The Master finally getting the better of The Doctor!).
Davison - Earthshock (Cybermen), Resurrection Of The Daleks (Daleks and Davros), The Five Doctors (features all Doctors, many past companions including Sarah Jane, Cybermen, The Master AND a lone Dalek!).
Baker - The Two Doctors (features Hartnell and Sontarans), Revelation Of The Daleks (Daleks and Davros)
McCoy - Remembrance Of The Daleks (Daleks, Davros and Coal Hill School from the very first episode!)
McGann - The Movie (features, well, not much really but the last and only time you see McGann before Ecclestone appears...)
Hope this helps. This is a kind of criteria I use to limit which DVDs I buy since it is the new series I really am a fan of but there are some other good stories too, like The Time Meddler, The War Machines, The Mind Robber, The Sea Devils, Inferno, Talons Of Weng Chiang, plus plenty more yet to see a DVD release.
That's Troughton, not Hartnell.
The Master, too.
God knows why I wrote Hartnell, I know it's Troughton, after all he is possibly my favourite Doctor!
Didn't mention The Master since he appears in oh so many stories. I wonder what would have happened if Roger Delgado hadn't died. Would Pertwee have carried on? Would The Master have continued as a stalwart into the Tom Baker era? I guess we'll never know.
LOL! Er, no, don't think so.
Russell T Davies' version of the show has gone to your head.
Yes, but at least Delgado never did a dance to Herman's Hermits. Although maybe some people think he should have done. :eek:
We do know. Delgado was already planning to leave the series. He was due to appear in one final adventure, in which the Master would have been killed. So, in fact, the sad death of Roger Delgado also had the effect of enabling the character to continue in the future, albeit played by different actors.
That's not to say that he couldn't have been brought back.
Like Davros was brought back after his apparent death at the end of Genesis? Yes, I suppose you're right.
However, I was simply explaining to girliedrinker that Delgado was planning to leave anyway.
As it turned out, the Hinchcliffe-Holmes team didn't want the Master to be a regular feature of their period (Hinchcliffe said on the Pyramids of Mars DVD that he felt the character had been overused), featuring him only in The Deadly Assassin, and Graham Williams never used him at all. So if JNT had never become producer, the character might have been laid to rest.