I know the difference between being being reserved and being shy. Reserved people tend to be mostly analytical; meaning they are more thoughtful, take their time to consider things, take a bit longer to reach decisions, and are less likely to come forward and speak out with their ideas first (this is not based on opinions by the way).
Plenty, any busy workplace that is team based and customer centric or requires quick decision making for example. I'd say there's plenty of those.
Even if they are less likely to come forward with their ideas and speak out, how does that stop them talking to a room of people on the occasions that it is part of their job? They are not likely to be daunted by this unless they actually suffer from shyness (which we have both already said is not the same thing as being reserved).
And with you second point, you seem to be talking about the person who is the LEADER of the team, and as I've already said I was talking about jobs that do not involve being a manager.
Even if they are less likely to come forward with their ideas and speak out, how does that stop them speaking to a room of people on the occasions that it is part of their job? They are not likely to be daunted by this unless the actually suffer from shyness (which we have both already said is not the same thing as being reserved).
An analytical person will not volunteer a half thought out idea, and by the time he or she has reached a decision, action may have already been taken.
And with you second point, you seem to be talking about the person who is the LEADER of the team, and as I've already said I was talking about jobs that do not involve being a manager.
No, there are plenty jobs where any member of staff may have to speak up or make a quick decisions at ground level. Say, bar work, a busy post room, or working in retail during the sales. Just some examples.
I particularly hate all the stuff about selling yourself, and demanding pay rises, and harassing people till you get discounts in shops. That doesn't even totally come under extraversion, mind you - it's a combination of extraversion (that makes you capable of doing it) and just being a ******.
I've had a number of persistent people try to get discounts like that in the shop where I work. They don't seem to realise that most shops will have no control over any discounts anyway, because prices and offers will have all been set by head office in advance.
The only exception may be if something is damaged or incomplete, but even then the company will have guidelines about how much to reduce it.
How arrogant to think that a shop might break the rules just for them and increase the discount! Being rude or abrupt to the staff will get you nowhere.
I had a group interview quite a few years ago at Argos, where they were scoring us on who pushed themselves forwards (amongst other things). It was a cashier job. The customers are coming to you, so you don't even have to approach anyone anyway!
Group interviews are such a silly idea. I mean, I'm no expert in recruitment, but how can you possibly gauge a person's suitability for a job, if you are not focusing on them individually? It's just a lazy inefficient time-saving idea.
Haha, yeah, we had individual interviews too, but it was a bit pointless.
I've done civil service assessment centers where I've had to do this but it is done because you want a member of your team to contribute. If they are quiet and cant communicate their idea then they really weren't suitable for that position. At the opposite end extroverts were also marked down for talking too much, talking over other people or not including others. You may feel it didn't favour you, but chances are it didn't favour the extroverts either. It's very obvious to an assessor who is bullshitting, bullying or generally taking over. The ideal behaviour in that situation is contribute but dont take over (unless it's a management role and that's what would be required), be seen to listen well (take notes if you can) and include others....perhaps say to the other quiet person in the group "John, what do you think?".
I see what you're saying, but it doesn't always apply, and it didn't in this case. For one thing, I got the job (by being way better at the competence test and the single interview than the group interview, which I came almost last in!), so I know for a fact that it doesn't involve many meetings or even all that much collaboration, it's a pretty solitary job. For another thing, all you're really testing is people's willingness to bullshit. One reason I was quiet because I knew we didn't have enough information to make sensible decisions about the fake situation, and anything people said was just chucking ideas at the wall without knowing anything about how the company actually worked. Which, if they hire people based on that, frankly explains a lot about a lot of companies ;-)
For another thing, a lot of people (I would have assumed most people) act differently in a group of strangers than in a group of people they're comfortable with, like a work team would be. You can't get me to shut up in meetings these days
You're right that they did also weed out the person who was trying to take over, though.
I've had a number of persistent people try to get discounts like that in the shop where I work. They don't seem to realise that most shops will have no control over any discounts anyway, because prices and offers will have all been set by head office in advance.
The only exception may be if something is damaged or incomplete, but even then the company will have guidelines about how much to reduce it.
How arrogant to think that a shop might break the rules just for them and increase the discount! Being rude or abrupt to the staff will get you nowhere.
I'm sure it's from all these programmes on telly where people go in with a camera and moan and threaten to go elsewhere until they get a discount. So irritating. If we lived in a country with a culture of haggling it might be different, but as it is...ugh.
An analytical person will not volunteer a half thought out idea, and by the time he or she has reached a decision, action may have already been taken.
But that logically means it's an optional thing for them to speak out at that time That still doesn't mean they have a problem talking to a room of people on pre-arranged occasions, when it is actually a requirement of their job.
No, there are plenty jobs where any member of staff may have to speak up or make a quick decisions at ground level. Say, bar work, a busy post room, or working in retail during the sales. Just some examples.
But that's not speaking to a room full of people is it? Most people are going to be able to do what you describe without a problem, even the introverts, unless they are suffering from acute shyness, which is of course a separate issue.
I'm sure it's from all these programmes on telly where people go in with a camera and moan and threaten to go elsewhere until they get a discount. So irritating. If we lived in a country with a culture of haggling it might be different, but as it is...ugh.
I know it's quite funny really isn't it? Because they are actually attempting to haggle. And then there's the ones who will try and claim something is badly damaged and shop soiled, when it's got one tiny little scratch that you need a magnifying glass to find!
But that logically means it's an optional thing for them to speak out at that time
It's an option, but they would have to step out of their comfort zone to do so.
That still doesn't mean they have a problem talking to a room of people on pre-arranged occasions, when it is actually a requirement of their job.
Of course it doesn't. In fact that kind of job would probably be better suited to them than one where it's be required to be more spontaneous.
But that's not speaking to a room full of people is it? Most people are going to be able to do what you describe without a problem,unless they are suffering from acute shyness.
A bar, a busy post room, retail during sales...not rooms full of people? Those places aren't busy all the time, but there will be peak times, where things can get hectic. That often means employees need to think act and communicate fast in a busy noisy environment.
I think if you are quiet you can get taken for granted or treated like a doormat in a work situation. I suppose that is a form of discrimination but not in the way that somebody can be racially or sexually discriminated against. (Disclaimer: other forms of discrimination are available.)
If you are being treated as a doormat you can speak up. Being an introvert does not mean you are painfully shy so in that way it is not a true discrimination.
I am an introvert at times, but at other times I can be the reverse. I think most people are a mixture of the two.
I agree. Sometimes I am introverted and sometimes extroverted. It depends upon the occasion, the environment and my mood.
It's pretty much impossible to succeed in a job interview if you are an introvert- they are only interested in how well you perform and how outgoing/confident they think you are. I gave up in the end and started my own business.
I would say job interviews are one area where introverts can sometimes be discriminated against, especially if it's a group interview - though 'discrimation' is perhaps too strong a word.
A bar, a busy post room, retail during sales...not rooms full of people? Those places aren't busy all the time, but there will be peak times, where things can get hectic. That often means employees need to think act and communicate fast in a busy noisy environment.
Yes, but surely what you are describing is not exactly making a speech is it? It's simply calling something out to someone while in a busy environment.
Why would an introvert have a problem with that unless they are shy or lacking in confidence?
I'm a very introverted person, but I would have no problem with that sort of thing, and in fact I'm regularly doing that in my current retail job.
I'm genuinely unsure what you think an introverted person would have to say or do in these kind of situations that would be difficult for them. I can see how it would be difficult for a shy person, but not an introvert. Please could you tell me exactly what you mean?
Is it? He has decided to tell us stuff about himself on here, so I just showing an interest in his eventful life.
Yes, but he wasn't describing his relationships in detail or asking for advice on them! (At least on this thread anyway. Maybe you were referring to other threads?)
Yes, but surely what you are describing is not exactly making a speech is it? It's simply calling something out to someone while in a busy environment.
Why would an introvert have a problem with that unless they are shy or lacking in confidence?
Its not about making speeches. Not sure where that came from. Even stuff like if a customer asks a difficult question but all the other colleagues are up to their eyes, or if a punter at the bar is too drunk and is getting out of hand. Things like that. Those aren't naturally comfortable environments for people who are mostly reserved.
I'm a very introverted person, but I would have no problem with that sort of thing, and in fact I'm regularly doing that in my current retail job.
I'm genuinely unsure what you think an introverted person would have to say or do in these kind of situations that would be difficult for them. I can see how it would be difficult for a shy person, but not an introvert. Please could you tell me exactly what you mean?
I refer you to post #96. It's not as simple as saying that you're either introvert or extrovert. At a guess I would suggest you're predominately analytical and amiable (amiable is just a guess though, I could be completely wrong, point is you won't be just one personality type, which means that as introvert as you say you are, you will also be an extrovert to some degree in other areas).
Comments
Even if they are less likely to come forward with their ideas and speak out, how does that stop them talking to a room of people on the occasions that it is part of their job? They are not likely to be daunted by this unless they actually suffer from shyness (which we have both already said is not the same thing as being reserved).
And with you second point, you seem to be talking about the person who is the LEADER of the team, and as I've already said I was talking about jobs that do not involve being a manager.
An analytical person will not volunteer a half thought out idea, and by the time he or she has reached a decision, action may have already been taken.
No, there are plenty jobs where any member of staff may have to speak up or make a quick decisions at ground level. Say, bar work, a busy post room, or working in retail during the sales. Just some examples.
I've had a number of persistent people try to get discounts like that in the shop where I work. They don't seem to realise that most shops will have no control over any discounts anyway, because prices and offers will have all been set by head office in advance.
The only exception may be if something is damaged or incomplete, but even then the company will have guidelines about how much to reduce it.
How arrogant to think that a shop might break the rules just for them and increase the discount! Being rude or abrupt to the staff will get you nowhere.
lol what business is that of yours, exactly? Are you his wife??
I see what you're saying, but it doesn't always apply, and it didn't in this case. For one thing, I got the job (by being way better at the competence test and the single interview than the group interview, which I came almost last in!), so I know for a fact that it doesn't involve many meetings or even all that much collaboration, it's a pretty solitary job. For another thing, all you're really testing is people's willingness to bullshit. One reason I was quiet because I knew we didn't have enough information to make sensible decisions about the fake situation, and anything people said was just chucking ideas at the wall without knowing anything about how the company actually worked. Which, if they hire people based on that, frankly explains a lot about a lot of companies ;-)
For another thing, a lot of people (I would have assumed most people) act differently in a group of strangers than in a group of people they're comfortable with, like a work team would be. You can't get me to shut up in meetings these days
You're right that they did also weed out the person who was trying to take over, though.
I am only showing an interest in his life which he has decided to share with us on this forum.;-)
How about you, Pandora? How much time do you spend with your partner and child?
But that logically means it's an optional thing for them to speak out at that time That still doesn't mean they have a problem talking to a room of people on pre-arranged occasions, when it is actually a requirement of their job.
But that's not speaking to a room full of people is it? Most people are going to be able to do what you describe without a problem, even the introverts, unless they are suffering from acute shyness, which is of course a separate issue.
OMG how nosy and interfering!
I know it's quite funny really isn't it? Because they are actually attempting to haggle. And then there's the ones who will try and claim something is badly damaged and shop soiled, when it's got one tiny little scratch that you need a magnifying glass to find!
Is it? He has decided to tell us stuff about himself on here, so I just showing an interest in his eventful life.
It's an option, but they would have to step out of their comfort zone to do so.
Of course it doesn't. In fact that kind of job would probably be better suited to them than one where it's be required to be more spontaneous.
A bar, a busy post room, retail during sales...not rooms full of people? Those places aren't busy all the time, but there will be peak times, where things can get hectic. That often means employees need to think act and communicate fast in a busy noisy environment.
I agree. Sometimes I am introverted and sometimes extroverted. It depends upon the occasion, the environment and my mood.
I suppose you're right but it's like you're accusing of not spending enough time with his family. Slightly uncalled for on here!
No I wasn't ... you still haven't answered my question btw ;-)
How judgemental!
I would say job interviews are one area where introverts can sometimes be discriminated against, especially if it's a group interview - though 'discrimation' is perhaps too strong a word.
Not at all I was just stating a fact.
Yes, but surely what you are describing is not exactly making a speech is it? It's simply calling something out to someone while in a busy environment.
Why would an introvert have a problem with that unless they are shy or lacking in confidence?
I'm a very introverted person, but I would have no problem with that sort of thing, and in fact I'm regularly doing that in my current retail job.
I'm genuinely unsure what you think an introverted person would have to say or do in these kind of situations that would be difficult for them.
No, you were being demeaningly judgemental . Reading Wizard's posts I don't understand why either. Perhaps YOU should do the same.
Yes, but he wasn't describing his relationships in detail or asking for advice on them! (At least on this thread anyway. Maybe you were referring to other threads?)
Its not about making speeches. Not sure where that came from. Even stuff like if a customer asks a difficult question but all the other colleagues are up to their eyes, or if a punter at the bar is too drunk and is getting out of hand. Things like that. Those aren't naturally comfortable environments for people who are mostly reserved.
I refer you to post #96. It's not as simple as saying that you're either introvert or extrovert. At a guess I would suggest you're predominately analytical and amiable (amiable is just a guess though, I could be completely wrong, point is you won't be just one personality type, which means that as introvert as you say you are, you will also be an extrovert to some degree in other areas).
Yeah sure. In fact I've just been swimming with them both. I especially like bonding time with my son.