WTF - Why the face?

ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
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The Doctor's lines about why he got the face and trying to tell himself something seem extra cryptic. Could there be an actual reason why he would make himself look like Caecilius from The Fires of Pompeii? Could it have something to do with Donna? I hope so.
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,056
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    As those lines went hand in hand with the stuff about how angry his eyebrows were, I'd guess there's nothing more to it than a nod to fans that Capaldi was in the show once or twice years ago.

    Also, as a reference to the fact the Doctor went through some terrible acts of war for many hundreds of years just before regenerating. His body is trying to tell him that he's older, wiser, angrier and less romantic than he used to be.

    My opinion anyway.
  • PootmatootPootmatoot Posts: 15,640
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    ea91 wrote: »
    The Doctor's lines about why he got the face and trying to tell himself something seem extra cryptic. Could there be an actual reason why he would make himself look like Caecilius from The Fires of Pompeii? Could it have something to do with Donna? I hope so.



    Clara stated during her-dressing-down-by-the-lizard scene that her childhood pin-up was Marcus Arealus.

    Given the entire relationship in this episode was about whether the previous incarnation regretted not being her "boyfriend" (or not), aren't we supposed to think he subconsciously chose the image of Caecillius as a front to appeal to Clara? Which is supposed to tie into us being meant to think that Missy is a future Clara/Clara-shard (hence the "boyfriend" comments, and the fact she looks exactly like and older Clara)? And an answer that, yes, he damn well did regretting not being her boyfriend.

    And that ties into the entire plot thread of the automatons, where the Doctor states that "some of those parts even look Roman", as an analogy for the Doctor (like the broom), not knowing who or what he is any more....subconsciously scouring his experience to choose a face at regeneration to address the regrets of the last incarnation?


    (I don't think it is an older Clara/Clara-shard, but I think that's what they want us to think, at this stage)
  • vampirekvampirek Posts: 4,022
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    ea91 wrote: »
    The Doctor's lines about why he got the face and trying to tell himself something seem extra cryptic. Could there be an actual reason why he would make himself look like Caecilius from The Fires of Pompeii? Could it have something to do with Donna? I hope so.

    It could be very well be that Matt's Doctor had an image of a grey hair man in his mind before regenerating, after all he is told what he looks like after regeneration. He asks this question, why this face? because he forgets he has the conversation with Clara but later on remembers.
  • FiregazerFiregazer Posts: 5,888
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    Why would it be something to do with Donna? Was that a joke?...
  • etldlrletldlrl Posts: 6,162
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    I wouldn't object if it was to do with Donna, as I think she got a raw deal in the end and it would be good to put that right, but I think it is more likely to be a way to make the Doctor, and us, think about the idea of a real or metaphorical volcano, which nobody can see as such because it has always seemed stable before, getting ready to blow.
  • ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
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    Firegazer wrote: »
    Why would it be something to do with Donna? Was that a joke?...

    She was in The Fires of Pompeii. She pleaded with the Doctor to save someone and he saved Caecilius.
    And you know, she's the most important woman in the universe.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 611
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    If this subject is actually important, and they answer it, I'd like it if they brought up some of the other roles that the Doctors' actors have played: The Abbot of France, Commader Maxil, even Tennant's role as a Nazi for a Seventh Doctor story would be a nice nod to Big Finish.
  • Joe_ZelJoe_Zel Posts: 20,832
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    I'd love it to involve Donna but I really don't think it will.

    Not least because I always got the impression Moffat didn't like that character.
  • Callum_BrownCallum_Brown Posts: 745
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    Are you Phil Dunphy?
  • Sara_PeplowSara_Peplow Posts: 1,579
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    I think I know. He will remmeber what he did in pompei. With a little encouragement from Donna of course.He couldn't save everyone. However he did go back and save one family. 4 lives mum,dad,son,daughter. Meaning he is good and capeable of good things.Like to think it will be for a good reason anyway.
  • Sufyaan_KaziSufyaan_Kazi Posts: 3,862
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    Or the face reminds him of mistakes he made in the past, he shouldn't interfere with fixed events .....
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    Yes, it seems that the Doctor subconsciously chose a older 'Roman' face partly as a message to himself that he doesn't need to pretend to be the young, dashing, flirtatious hero any more, and that being so was actually unfair on the women he travelled with - look what that did to Rose, Martha and Amy - and that he can still be someone Clara admires and respects without showing off.
  • doctor blue boxdoctor blue box Posts: 7,203
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    vampirek wrote: »
    It could be very well be that Matt's Doctor had an image of a grey hair man in his mind before regenerating, after all he is told what he looks like after regeneration. He asks this question, why this face? because he forgets he has the conversation with Clara but later on remembers.
    That's what I thought. A big time loop where 11 got told his next regeneration was old so that fed into his subconscious and made his next incarnation old. basically timey wimey done cleverly for a change.
  • PootmatootPootmatoot Posts: 15,640
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    Yes, it seems that the Doctor subconsciously chose a older 'Roman' face partly as a message to himself that he doesn't need to pretend to be the young, dashing, flirtatious hero any more, and that being so was actually unfair on the women he travelled with - look what that did to Rose, Martha and Amy - and that he can still be someone Clara admires and respects without showing off.



    Or it could mean exactly the opposite, given Clara stated that older and Roman was exactly her type...
  • ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
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    ea91 wrote: »
    The Doctor's lines about why he got the face and trying to tell himself something seem extra cryptic. Could there be an actual reason why he would make himself look like Caecilius from The Fires of Pompeii? Could it have something to do with Donna? I hope so.

    Well how about that. :cool: *past self high five*
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,229
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    ea91 wrote: »
    Well how about that. :cool: *past self high five*

    Agreed :cool:
  • Thomas CrewesThomas Crewes Posts: 733
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    ea91 wrote: »
    Well how about that. :cool: *past self high five*
    Didn't almost everyone catch that? It's been a big issue in fandom, waiting for the answer.
  • CD93CD93 Posts: 13,937
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    It was a nice little addition. Would be lying if I said I wasn't slightly amused by some disappointed comments around the place that it "wasn't that big a deal" though.

    When even Steven Moffat (and this is Moffat) is saying it wouldn't be a big deal... wouldn't be a major issue... would be a low-key thing... it probably won't / wouldn't be :p
  • andy1231andy1231 Posts: 5,100
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    The_Judge_ wrote: »
    Or the face reminds him of mistakes he made in the past, he shouldn't interfere with fixed events .....

    I think it's the opposite, he remembers breaking the laws of time and memory of that face has stayed with him. When he regenerated he chose "that" face to remind himself that he can pretty much do what he wants and when pushed can and will break the laws of time.
    I thought it was pretty good way to explain the similarity.
  • Daniel DareDaniel Dare Posts: 3,503
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    ea91 wrote: »
    Well how about that. :cool: *past self high five*

    Imagine if you'd got the answers to your questions that was on everybody's lips, bang on. Now that would have been impressive.
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,574
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    What we ended up with can't be what RTD originally came up with for Caecilius and Frobisher though can it?


    Which is what Moffat was supposedly going to use.
  • Brandon_SmithBrandon_Smith Posts: 2,908
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    I'm so sorry Miss Donna Noble but you're going to die..
  • ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
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    Imagine if you'd got the answers to your questions that was on everybody's lips, bang on. Now that would have been impressive.

    Well my suspicions were correct in that it ended up being literally about what Donna said that made the Doctor save Caecilius, so it doesn't take a genius. To be honest I was hoping for something more substantial, perhaps a multi-Doctor episode revisiting the events in The Fires of Pompeii that would lure back Catherine Tate, and possibly Karen Gillan who also guest starred in it, but I suppose that remains a dream for now. (although I will totally bump this thread again if that happens :p)
  • Sufyaan_KaziSufyaan_Kazi Posts: 3,862
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    andy1231 wrote: »
    I think it's the opposite, he remembers breaking the laws of time and memory of that face has stayed with him. When he regenerated he chose "that" face to remind himself that he can pretty much do what he wants and when pushed can and will break the laws of time.
    I thought it was pretty good way to explain the similarity.

    Thanks for using yesterdays episode for correcting something I said in August 2014.

    :confused:
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